Plant Based Diet?
Replies
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moosmum1972 wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »
Oh yes I will continue using this app and watch my calorie intake as well.
You need to do more research than watching fear mongers on Netflix
A TV show isn’t my driving force. Although that show and Rotten were interesting shows, I friends on both a vegetarian & vegan diet and I am thinking of doing this because of my weight and my health. I have been reading up on it and and speaking with people who have also made the change. I was looking for feedback on the pros and cons of a plant based diet not the video. Just want to make sure I make the right decision.
Sadly, you will receive lots of this type of feedback and not just on forums, irl too. I can't really help you with any pros and cons, but I can tell you that it's not a all or nothing thing.
You have your own reasons for wanting to try it, so start slowly, swap out a few animal products for plant based ones and see how you feel?
Simple Happy Kitchen has a great book and some downloadable charts on the different plant based nutrients.
https://www.simplehappykitchen.com/protein-calcium-iron/
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The book “The Starch Solution” is free on DrMcDougall.com. I am home with the flu watching all kinds of videos on YouTube and feel like this may Be this missing link in weight loss for me. We will find out next week when I have implemented this for a while. What he mentions that keeps sticking with me is: “The fat you eat, is the fat you wear!” I eat a bit of prepared foods from Freezer aisle and they are all fat. I use vegan butter and vegan mayo. These are the things that fill me up in conjunction with a very good amount of fresh produce. But, what I have been doing over and over is watching carb intake, pastas, rice, potatoes, and corn, LIGHTBULB MOMENT! This is what The Starch Solution teaches to consume to feel satisfied. So if I reduce my fat intake by 15%; 600 calories, I will lose weight and not feel deprived. He encourages small amounts of sugar and salt, if needed, so you don’t give up on this, as we eat more fat than we realize. The salt and sugar are to keep things palatable. Cooking with no fats! Need a good ceramic frying pan and they suggest one from Amazon. Looking forward to giving this concept a try! It just makes so much sense when you look at the generations before us that lived on things like potatoes, rice, or corn as a mainstay and none of those people (think Asian or native Americans) were obese, primarily on plants.13
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They didn't mention pemmican?
Dietary fat doesn't make you fat. A calorie surplus makes you fat.2 -
happyfitr2d2 wrote: »What he mentions that keeps sticking with me is: “The fat you eat, is the fat you wear!”
Except fats don't make you fat. Excess calories do.3 -
MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »happyfitr2d2 wrote: »What he mentions that keeps sticking with me is: “The fat you eat, is the fat you wear!”
Except fats don't make you fat. Excess calories do.
Yup, and too little fat is bad for us: We need it for hormone balance, to help avoid constipation, and more. If we choose, we can get fats from plants, no problem.
Most early humans ate a bunch of plants, sure. Nearly universally, they also ate every bit of meat and/or fish they could kill or catch, including the fat. Exclusively plant-eating aboriginal cultures are very rare . . . but there are some (e.g., people of the arctic) whose traditional diet includes very large amounts of animal/fish fat, at least seasonally.
I strongly suspect that most early cultures avoided obesity by needing to work hard physically to stay alive, and needing to cope more often with food scarcity than surplus.
Humans evolved to be omnivores. Other dietary choices can be rational in modern life, but romanticized fantasy anthropology is not required in order to rationalize them.4 -
I have been moving toward a lacto-ovo pescatarian diet for a while, though I still eat some meat. I have zero interest in moving toward a purely vegan diet. I've known plenty of fat vegetarians, so weight loss should have little to do with the motivation for eating a plant-based diet - whatever the content of one's diet, it's too many calories that make you fat. The main arguments for a more plant based diet in my opinion are ethical and economic, as well as personal health. For me, an ovo-lacto pescatarian diet will be sustainable long term - a vegan diet would not be.1
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Ive returned to a pescatarian lifestyle. Slowly deleting dairy from my diet.
I feel 'lighter' eating fish vs other meats. As far as dairy, Ive noticed huge improvements concerning my year round allergies. Yes, I still take allergy meds daily yet have not had any upper respiratory issues as in years past. (I would have sinus infections/upper respiratory infections, etc every two-four weeks, depending on the season.)
Ive been a huge vegetable/fruit eater all of my life.
Enjoy the journey. Do what works for you.2 -
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MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »happyfitr2d2 wrote: »What he mentions that keeps sticking with me is: “The fat you eat, is the fat you wear!”
Except fats don't make you fat. Excess calories do.
Yup, and too little fat is bad for us: We need it for hormone balance, to help avoid constipation, and more. If we choose, we can get fats from plants, no problem.
I find it so funny when people replay Susan Powter. I suppose not everyone is old enough to remember (although McDougall is and I think he's ripping her off).Most early humans ate a bunch of plants, sure. Nearly universally, they also ate every bit of meat and/or fish they could kill or catch, including the fat. Exclusively plant-eating aboriginal cultures are very rare . . . but there are some (e.g., people of the arctic) whose traditional diet includes very large amounts of animal/fish fat, at least seasonally.
Yep.I strongly suspect that most early cultures avoided obesity by needing to work hard physically to stay alive, and needing to cope more often with food scarcity than surplus.
Humans evolved to be omnivores. Other dietary choices can be rational in modern life, but romanticized fantasy anthropology is not required in order to rationalize them.
And yep.
I respect veganism (and vegetarianism, of course) as ethical choices and totally agree that how humans historically ate doesn't demand that we continue to eat that way, regardless of choice, given that we are now able to make other choices (have the privilege of options).
But the claim that eating meat and cutting starches is why we are fat and that cultures that don't won't get fat (given the lack of scarcity and sedentary lifestyles many have) is as wrong (absurd, really) to me as saying that the reason people get fat is "processed" carbs (meaning white rice, pasta, all bread), which I just read someone saying in another thread.1 -
A friend of mine did this and lost 20 pounds as well did her spouse. Unfortunately, she gained it all back because her mindset implemented it as a diet. Basically deeming it only necessary to reach a particular target weight.
If you’re meaning to make the change permanently than you may find success in this. You also have to take into consideration that there is an obvious change in taste from your regular food palette. If you choose to do this, I highly suggest looking into Vegan support groups for food substitute recommendations.2 -
Nicespice9 wrote: »I'm also going to try a plant based diet. I was pescetarian for 11 years before I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I tried the low carb thing and added back chicken and turkey to my diet. My a1c went from 7.9 to 6.6, but now I have high cholesterol- a problem I never had before. Its disheartening. I have high hopes for the plant based diet improving my health. I'm 225, the heaviest I ever weighed. For 5'3" that puts my bmi at like 40. Anyway, best of luck to those transitioning/beginning.
If you are diabetic, you will still want to keep carbs low. And how are you defining high cholesterol? Are you talking total cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL, LDL?
OP, just make sure your eating is align to your goals. You can definitely do it plant based on non plant based. It just may require more thinking than other methods.2 -
I used to be a vegetarian and was a vegan for 3 years. I have been an omnivore for the last 18 years. (I'm 52). I was veg and vegan in my late 20s early 30s. I was ok with both vegetarian and vegan when I had a rather tranquil life and was able to prepare all my meals. When I moved, changed careers and had to eat out and be on the go, I returned to eating meat. Being a vegan was not sustainable for me--I was eating poorly because I couldn't make my own food. That was nearly 20 years ago and there are more restaurants and also meal delivery services that are vegan. I was veg and vegan for both health and ethical reasons. It came down to either me or the animals, so I had to go with me. I eat meat and fish now but I always buy local and/or humanely raised and organic. My health is good whether I eat meat or not--what has proved problematic for me is weight gain (due to overeating) and stress. You can have a good/healthy diet whether you include meat or not. I don't believe that a vegan diet for me, even when done right (which is hard to do), is healthier than an omnivore diet that is balanced.2
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Ways of eating are just that... ways of eating. Whether taken on for ethical, religious, health, or other issues.
All WoE have the potential to be healthy and unhealthy depending on so many factors.
I heartily agree with the above:Nicespice9 wrote: »I'm also going to try a plant based diet. I was pescetarian for 11 years before I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I tried the low carb thing and added back chicken and turkey to my diet. My a1c went from 7.9 to 6.6, but now I have high cholesterol- a problem I never had before. Its disheartening. I have high hopes for the plant based diet improving my health. I'm 225, the heaviest I ever weighed. For 5'3" that puts my bmi at like 40. Anyway, best of luck to those transitioning/beginning.
If you are diabetic, you will still want to keep carbs low. And how are you defining high cholesterol? Are you talking total cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL, LDL?
OP, just make sure your eating is align to your goals. You can definitely do it plant based on non plant based. It just may require more thinking than other methods.
Eating should align to your goals, especially in a situation where there is a health risk involved. Ultimately, it seems that most want a way of eating that will provide them with optimal health and optimal sustainability.... if this is truly the case, then the way of eating that most aligns with your goals and your health needs would meet that while still varying from individual to individual.
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I switched to plant based last summer..thought it would be hard but was surprisingly easy. Facebook has alot of great pages to help with recipes and questions. https://www.facebook.com/groups/WholeFoodPlantBasedDiet/ is my go to if I have any question and they post new recipes daily. I feel better, look better, am off of my acid reflux medicine. oh and have lost 76 pounds in the last year- about 50 of them since going plant based in July..
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Lemurcat12:
“I find it so funny when people replay Susan Powter. I suppose not everyone is old enough to remember (although McDougall is and I think he's ripping her off).”
Hi Lemurcat12,
I hope you are doing well! Afterall, we all need one another and this thread os a great place to learn. Thanks for inspiring me!
I remember Susan Powter! But McDougall is a medical doctor who has been doing this since the 70’s and treating patients with this concept since the 80’s. He was inspired by the Dr. At Duke University in the 1940’s who treated people with the rice diet.
It makes sense for me, mostly vegetarian and previously vegan to omit oils and fill up on potatoes, corn, brown rice, and brown pasta/ bread with my 5+ a day veggies and fruits. Before I was eating cheese (loaded with fat; not a plant), dark chocolate, red wine, and nuts(full of fat). I will be omitting these for 66+ days and seeing if I can make it a way of life; not just a diet.
I need foods that satieate and before, avoided potatoes, pasta, corn, rice, or at least limited them and found myself cheating with fat laiden foods to fill up.
I don’t have any experience with Dr. McDougall’s plan. I was also eating a lot of Amy’s (fat) and perhaps learning how to cook healthy with potatoes, rice, corn etc will fill me up and not send me running for nuts, cheese, and Amy’s which were filling me with fat. And certainly more sodium.
I will check back here around 4/15; tax day... that’s about 66+ days!
Drmcdougall.com IS worth a look if there’s a hope to reverse or lessen arthritis, diabetes, cholesterol...
It is solely plant based!
I want to stop taking Ibuprofen as I suffer from osteoarthritis. I want to stop taking Clairtin D for chronic sinusitis. I have hypothyroidism and respect that Dr. McDougall doesn’t make any claims to see me off that prescription. Let’s see if this improves my quality of life. Isn’t that why we all are here?
The Starch Solution looks so doable and his wife Mary has excellent videos showing how to eat and teaches some great tips on cooking without oil that I am excited to try! I love seeing his “stars” give testimony to reversing high blood pressure and type 2 diabetes on his videos. I love that they know you are going to crave some sugar and some salt and don’t state you have to totally eliminate it. That would make me give up!
Loved the article on maple syrup here a MyFitnessPal showing all the nutritional benefits of a great sweetner... plant based!
I have a lot to learn and I am excited about the journey!2 -
happyfitr2d2 wrote: »Lemurcat12:
“I find it so funny when people replay Susan Powter. I suppose not everyone is old enough to remember (although McDougall is and I think he's ripping her off).”
Hi Lemurcat12,
I hope you are doing well! Afterall, we all need one another and this thread os a great place to learn. Thanks for inspiring me!
I remember Susan Powter! But McDougall is a medical doctor who has been doing this since the 70’s and treating patients with this concept since the 80’s. He was inspired by the Dr. At Duke University in the 1940’s who treated people with the rice diet.
It makes sense for me, mostly vegetarian and previously vegan to omit oils and fill up on potatoes, corn, brown rice, and brown pasta/ bread with my 5+ a day veggies and fruits. Before I was eating cheese (loaded with fat; not a plant), dark chocolate, red wine, and nuts(full of fat). I will be omitting these for 66+ days and seeing if I can make it a way of life; not just a diet.
I need foods that satieate and before, avoided potatoes, pasta, corn, rice, or at least limited them and found myself cheating with fat laiden foods to fill up.
I don’t have any experience with Dr. McDougall’s plan. I was also eating a lot of Amy’s (fat) and perhaps learning how to cook healthy with potatoes, rice, corn etc will fill me up and not send me running for nuts, cheese, and Amy’s which were filling me with fat. And certainly more sodium.
I will check back here around 4/15; tax day... that’s about 66+ days!
Drmcdougall.com IS worth a look if there’s a hope to reverse or lessen arthritis, diabetes, cholesterol...
It is solely plant based!
I want to stop taking Ibuprofen as I suffer from osteoarthritis. I want to stop taking Clairtin D for chronic sinusitis. I have hypothyroidism and respect that Dr. McDougall doesn’t make any claims to see me off that prescription. Let’s see if this improves my quality of life. Isn’t that why we all are here?
The Starch Solution looks so doable and his wife Mary has excellent videos showing how to eat and teaches some great tips on cooking without oil that I am excited to try! I love seeing his “stars” give testimony to reversing high blood pressure and type 2 diabetes on his videos. I love that they know you are going to crave some sugar and some salt and don’t state you have to totally eliminate it. That would make me give up!
Loved the article on maple syrup here a MyFitnessPal showing all the nutritional benefits of a great sweetner... plant based!
I have a lot to learn and I am excited about the journey!
What's wrong with fats? You need those to absorb certain vitamins.2 -
I eat too much fat. The fat you eat is the fat you wear!14
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happyfitr2d2 wrote: »I eat too much fat. The fat you eat is the fat you wear!
Fat doesn't make you fat though. Excess calories do.4 -
happyfitr2d2 wrote: »I remember Susan Powter! But McDougall is a medical doctor who has been doing this since the 70’s and treating patients with this concept since the 80’s. He was inspired by the Dr. At Duke University in the 1940’s who treated people with the rice diet.
I'm very aware of who McDougall is, I've actually read his book (I've read a variety of low carb books too), and I listen to lots of plant-based-related podcasts, but I'm talking about his use of the phrase "the fat you eat is the fat you wear," which is as silly as the opposite claim (that carbs make us fact) which itself is a reaction to the demonizing of fat that Powter was known for and that McDougall seems to want to keep pushing (or bring back). No specific macro makes us fat or cannot contribute to obesity if overeaten. Many people can overeat on starches and sugar or find it even harder to control those foods than fat. I've always found a combination hardest not to overdo, and then fats, and then plain sugar and starch (and for me it would be quite hard to overeat on plain starches), but it seems obvious to me that lots of people are otherwise: overeating starches like bread is one of the most common things people mention struggling with.
I find it not necessary to eliminate things to be satiated -- IME, satiety is quite easy with sufficient volume, veg, fiber, and protein, and that leaves plenty of room for whatever -- but satisfaction is a different matter. My main point, however, is that what works for satiety and satisfaction is pretty variable. (When I cut calories without having any special way of eating other than "generally healthy" to aim for, I found myself cutting out sweets (I don't have a huge sweet tooth so this was mainly a side effect of cutting out snacks and the "just because it's there" thing at my office), the side of my starch portion, and added fats -- I think I cut fat and carbs about equally.)
If the Starch Solution is appealing to you, I think it's fine (I do think protein is more significant than McDougall says and tend to personally lean more toward a focus on veg over starches, but you do need calories -- I just don't believe there's any reason to think that it's important to be super low fat absent some specific health problems, and don't think demonizing protein and fat is any better than demonizing carbs, and I do think McDougall tends to do so.
I would say that eating vegan is a separate thing, as I think that tends to be more about ethical concerns (and living an overall vegan lifestyle). I think it's great for that reason and can be very healthy, like I said I lean that way myself. What I think is false is the claim that eating meat or fat or dairy or whatever makes us fat and that eliminating it makes you automatically thin.5 -
Really, if someone without strictly eliminating them tended to overeat cheese, nuts, red wine (which has no fat, of course), so on, that doesn't mean a diet that does not eliminating them is going to be a worse diet. It just means that YOU individually may have problems moderating those foods. That's very similar to someone claiming that because they tend to overeat pasta or bread or juice or potatoes that it's necessary to eliminate those (and carbs are the problem).
I lost 95 lbs before I started experimenting with my diet (I did think eating healthfully was important and I cooked most of my own food from scratch, because that's what I was doing before too), and I lost all of that weight consuming olive oil and cheese (in moderation -- I cut back a lot because that was a food I'd eaten to excess) and nuts and so on. (I'm eating mostly plant-based now and actively try to include nuts daily, and also use some olive oil still, so I'd say this is a separate question from plant based.)
Not sure how "the fat you eat is the fat you wear" makes sense when many people who eat moderate to higher fat diets lose weight just fine. Saying something that is obviously not accurate doesn't strike me as a good way to promote a way of eating, as it loses credibility (same with the movies we started out talking about). I realize that some people find that low fat diets work well for them, or help with specific health issues, and I think trying it for that is a smart thing if you want to, but that doesn't mean that fat is what causes weight gain and carbs cannot if you eat low fat (which is one thing McDougall claims).
Another thing I've heard from plant-based evangelists, btw, including him, is that meat only tastes good if you put lots of stuff on it and mask the taste or some such, unlike potatoes and starches which taste good plain. I also think that's a ridiculous argument, since it's not my experience at all. If I end up giving up meat for good, it's not because it doesn't taste good -- as someone proud of her roasted chicken (and the roasted potatoes and other veg I eat with it are extra good if you let them roast a bit in the fat released from the chicken). And it's certainly not true that that chicken or a good steak or rack of lamb or whatever only tastes good covered with something. Salt and pepper is plenty (and it's not like I don't put salt and pepper on potatoes or veg).2
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