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Is a calorie equal to a calorie?
Replies
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Thank you for your input. I think what I said was way misunderstood. The original post asked if a calorie equals a calorie and compared foods. That’s what I was responding to. I would say I eat a balanced diet including chocolate and an occasional trip to mc Donald’s for some chicken nuggets. So by no means did I try to judge anyone. There were some comments about calories are all the same and that you can live off junk food and still lose weight as long as you stay in your calorie allowance. And yes this is true for a lot of ppl but not for all.lemurcat12 wrote: »formybabies79 wrote: »A calorie is a calorie I think that has been clearly established by all the comments. What’s different are the nutrients. You can eat empty calories or you can fuel your body with the things you eat. You know the saying: you are what you eat. While eating a clean and nutritious diet you fuel your body to function right, have more energy and feel good. I liked that example of a mile being a mile... hey I rather take the mile with umbrella and drink at 75 degree weather than the crawling across glass. Same with your calories... make them count and let them make you feel good. Calories from fiber help you poop, calories from protein help build muscles, calories from orios give you a sugar crash and increase your sugar cravings and that in turn makes it harder to stick to your calorie goal.
I'm going to be pedantic, because I honesty think that there's a persistent misunderstanding that some have re "a calorie is a calorie" meaning that people don't understand that foods are different.
A "calorie" is NOT a synonym for food. It's a measure of the energy value in a food. Calories are fungible; there is no such thing as a "fiber calorie" that your body can distinguish from a "sugar calorie." However, of course your body can tell sugar from fiber.
Thus, when you say "calories from fiber help you poop," that is not correct (although fiber, or some types of fiber, is useful for that purpose for SOME people, depending on overall diet). The CALORIES from the food that contains fiber do not themselves do anything to help with digestive functions or BMs. Do you see the distinction that I am making?
And of course I agree with janejellyroll that eating an Oreo within the context of a healthy diet with adequate everything else will not give me a sugar crash or increase cravings (nor is an Oreo only sugar, it has fat too).
Bigger point is that overall diet is what matters for nutrition. Sure, for some individuals it may be difficult to have a healthy diet if they include certain foods because of individual food issues, but for the most part ANY healthy diet is going to have a mix of foods, some really nutrient dense, some less nutrient dense but providing some things the more nutrient dense food does not, some that help you enjoy a meal that includes lots of nutrient dense foods that happen to taste better when cooked with a little oil or butter, say, or a bit of sugar that makes the rhubarb sauce cook better or, of course, some salt that just adds to the taste of foods when used when cooking. An approach that would eliminate olive oil because it is not in itself nutrient dense and ignore the context and dosage or, similarly, say that a little chocolate is bad because it doesn't measure up to a vegetable when it comes to micros makes no sense to me.
I am curious if this is just misunderstanding or a genuinely different view of nutrition, so I'd actually appreciate some kind of reply here. I'm not just saying this for the sake of it, but hoping to have a conversation. You seem to think that you are disagreeing with people who have said nutrients don't matter, and I don't think anyone has said that, so I am confused by your apparent belief to the contrary.
I’ve been diagnosed with PCOS years ago and have been doing tons of research and support groups and you wouldn’t believe how many believe that all that matters is calorie count. I met some girls who didn’t eat over their allowance of calories never had energy and couldn’t lose weight until they cut out a good chunk of processed foods and got their insulin resistance under control.
Some replies said that calorie is a energy measurement and yes that is true but not everyone responds to those calories the same way. I highly believe in the CICO principal that’s why I’m using MFP to begin with but I also believe that our body is far more complex in using them. That’s just my personal opinion
My earlier comment was supposed to be on the funny side and was widely misunderstood and I’m sorry if I offended anyone
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PikaJoyJoy wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »PikaJoyJoy wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »PikaJoyJoy wrote: »It's probably been mentioned (as I haven't read through all the pages)...but this reminds me of the thread where someone was very adamant that 1 lb of feathers was lighter than 1 lb of rocks.
ETA: OMG, the link was posted. WOW! I am seriously surprised that thread is still up!
Pika, you seriously underestimate the power of that thread and my memory for the absurd.
That thread was from back in the day when threads rolled at 500 posts and people were getting jostled (and apparently playing some drinking game) at the end. Remember those days?
Also, props to @WinoGelato for trying to get Bohemian Rhapsody going.
Things just don't get locked like they used to.
...also, you were seriously Joffed.
Deja vu. I did the cone of shame in that other thread too when I accidentally revived it way back when. LMAO.
I saw that when I read through the last few pages of that thread. Funny!1 -
PikaJoyJoy wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »*Quietly raises hand......
I can take or leave Oreos. Mostly leave. There are far superior biscuits (British definition) available, why would I waste the calories on Oreos? Unless vegan, then I think they become essential to life.
I’m starting to think Oreos available in Britain are sub-par to American Oreos. Too many Brits saying the same thing.
I'm an American and Oreos aren't my cup of tea either. It's a good thing the cookie aisle is so big!
Same here. Nothing on a really good homemade chocolate chip cookie, or Snickerdoodle, or peanut butter. I like cookies to be slightly moist (sorry, I know that's an awful word) throughout, and don't like the hard pieces, cream filling (or whatever you call it) combo that much. I don't hate them, but they aren't my favorite or anything I particular long for ever.
I woo'd you, but only because there is no awesome, so I pretended it meant woo-hoo.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »PikaJoyJoy wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »*Quietly raises hand......
I can take or leave Oreos. Mostly leave. There are far superior biscuits (British definition) available, why would I waste the calories on Oreos? Unless vegan, then I think they become essential to life.
I’m starting to think Oreos available in Britain are sub-par to American Oreos. Too many Brits saying the same thing.
I'm an American and Oreos aren't my cup of tea either. It's a good thing the cookie aisle is so big!
Same here. Nothing on a really good homemade chocolate chip cookie, or Snickerdoodle, or peanut butter. I like cookies to be slightly moist (sorry, I know that's an awful word) throughout, and don't like the hard pieces, cream filling (or whatever you call it) combo that much. I don't hate them, but they aren't my favorite or anything I particular long for ever.
I woo'd you, but only because there is no awesome, so I pretended it meant woo-hoo.
That's the only kind of woo I like
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Also, I just saw quoted a long post from me starting with "I'm going to be pedantic" and my first thought was "oh, dear, how tiresome did I need to be about Oreos vs. other cookies." ;-)4
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Also, I just saw quoted a long post from me starting with "I'm going to be pedantic" and my first thought was "oh, dear, how tiresome did I need to be about Oreos vs. other cookies." ;-)
But at least you don't fidget.3 -
formybabies79 wrote: »Thank you for your input. I think what I said was way misunderstood. The original post asked if a calorie equals a calorie and compared foods. That’s what I was responding to.
Ah. Since there'd been 8 pages of discussion following that post, I think most of us read you as responding to what others had said already, and so assumed you were saying that we had failed to understand that foods are not all the same. At least, that's what I was (mostly) responding to, in addition to the congenital pedantry, of course. ;-)There were some comments about calories are all the same and that you can live off junk food and still lose weight as long as you stay in your calorie allowance.
If you read this as "all foods are the same," I think you did misunderstand, however. I am sure that people who pointed out that you can lose weight based on calories alone -- which I am certain is true -- were not recommending it or saying all foods are the same nutritionally, and the reference (if that was made) to the Twinkie study also was not recommending it, but just saying that if calories are controlled, you lose, gain, or maintain based on calories. Of course for satiety, health, quality of life, etc., what we eat is important beyond calories. I think we all do agree on that!
On the idea that you can't lose eating a poor diet. People who starve to death or anorexics often eat a poor diet (in different ways), and they obviously lose weight. Not saying a poor diet is a good idea, and I do think it makes it harder to stick to calories and probably does affect energy levels for many, which is why if you are hungry or don't feel good eating differently might be a good idea (and of course everyone should ideally pay some attention to nutrition -- for me that's common sense, so I assume everyone knows that unless they suggest otherwise).Some replies said that calorie is a energy measurement and yes that is true but not everyone responds to those calories the same way.
Again, I kind of think you are confusing or conflating foods and calories. Calories are fungible -- your body cannot distinguish a carrot calorie from a steak calorie from a potato chip calorie. But yes, we agree that those three foods are different and your body will get different nutrients from them and digest them/obtain the energy and nutrients from them through a somewhat different process.I highly believe in the CICO principal that’s why I’m using MFP to begin with but I also believe that our body is far more complex in using them. That’s just my personal opinion
Why I thought you misunderstood is that people often seem to think that saying CICO is what matters for weight loss or "a calorie is a calorie" somehow denies the complexities, and that's not actually true. I think CICO determines weight gain, loss, or maintenance, but how I can get the calorie balance I want may actually be complex or different for me than for you -- for example, some find it easier to cut carbs or eat only 2 times a day or eat lots of different little meals or focus on eating 10+ servings of vegetables or work on emotional eating or focus on activity more than food or on and on. And similarly saying "weight loss is about CICO" does not deny that satiety is important or nutrition.My earlier comment was supposed to be on the funny side and was widely misunderstood and I’m sorry if I offended anyone
Thanks for clarifying. I do still think there might have been a misunderstanding, as no one was saying what we eat doesn't matter, but I also apologize if I read you wrong!3 -
cmriverside wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Also, I just saw quoted a long post from me starting with "I'm going to be pedantic" and my first thought was "oh, dear, how tiresome did I need to be about Oreos vs. other cookies." ;-)
But at least you don't fidget.
I think that's bad, though. ;-)1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »UltraVegBabe wrote: »I’m just curious if anybody has any links to a scientific article or journal talking about calories in terms of if 100 calories of apples is equal to 100 calories of oreos.
Of course they're not the same. You have the Oreos with milk and the apples with peanut butter.
A calorie is like a dollar, you can get it and spend it different ways and some are better than others, but it has the same buying power.
That is an amazing analogy!!0 -
Oh to be clear, a warm chocolate chip cookie fresh from the oven beats the socks off anything from a package with no contest.
There’s a reason my Oreo thread only crowns them the best packaged cookie.
Also, for optimal deliciousness, Oreos are to be dunked in milk, not just long enough to get the outside wet but long enough for them to soak up the milk, making them a delicious gooey morsel of chocolatey milky bliss.7 -
Also, to those who think that “Oreo calories” are empty calories, I’ll have you know that not only do they release endorphins to enhance my mental state, they are also a decent source of iron.
So there.12 -
I think Aussie Oreos must be like UK ones, because I'm not a fan. Though I also think Hershey's chocolate is an affornt to humankind, and Red Vines are vaguely flavoured rubber, so maybe I just have a different pallet
I'm also not a fan of TimTams unless they're pulverised in a food processor, mixed with condensed milk, rolled into balls and tossed on coconut. Preferably the chewy caramel ones.1 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »I think Aussie Oreos must be like UK ones, because I'm not a fan. Though I also think Hershey's chocolate is an affornt to humankind, and Red Vines are vaguely flavoured rubber, so maybe I just have a different pallet
Red Vines are tasteless and have a weird texture, never seen the point, and we have way better chocolate than Hershey's. Oreos are fine for a packaged cookie (I'd prefer a Samoa if we are just talking packaged cookies, or, I guess, a Milano dark chocolate, although that also improves with milk). As a kid I adored Nilla wafers and milk, but I haven't had that in a scary amount of years.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I think Aussie Oreos must be like UK ones, because I'm not a fan. Though I also think Hershey's chocolate is an affornt to humankind, and Red Vines are vaguely flavoured rubber, so maybe I just have a different pallet
Red Vines are tasteless and have a weird texture, never seen the point, and we have way better chocolate than Hershey's. Oreos are fine for a packaged cookie (I'd prefer a Samoa if we are just talking packaged cookies, or, I guess, a Milano dark chocolate, although that also improves with milk). As a kid I adored Nilla wafers and milk, but I haven't had that in a scary amount of years.
Oh, I'd take out a Girl Scout for a box of Samoas. They're the best.2 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I think Aussie Oreos must be like UK ones, because I'm not a fan. Though I also think Hershey's chocolate is an affornt to humankind, and Red Vines are vaguely flavoured rubber, so maybe I just have a different pallet
Red Vines are tasteless and have a weird texture, never seen the point, and we have way better chocolate than Hershey's. Oreos are fine for a packaged cookie (I'd prefer a Samoa if we are just talking packaged cookies, or, I guess, a Milano dark chocolate, although that also improves with milk). As a kid I adored Nilla wafers and milk, but I haven't had that in a scary amount of years.
Oh, I'd take out a Girl Scout for a box of Samoas. They're the best.
I really don't like Girl Scout cookies at all. But those Butter Braid breads the Boy Scouts sell? OMG.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »*Quietly raises hand......
I can take or leave Oreos. Mostly leave. There are far superior biscuits (British definition) available, why would I waste the calories on Oreos? Unless vegan, then I think they become essential to life.
I’m starting to think Oreos available in Britain are sub-par to American Oreos. Too many Brits saying the same thing.
I'm an American and Oreos aren't my cup of tea either. It's a good thing the cookie aisle is so big!
Same here. Nothing on a really good homemade chocolate chip cookie, or Snickerdoodle, or peanut butter. I like cookies to be slightly moist (sorry, I know that's an awful word) throughout, and don't like the hard pieces, cream filling (or whatever you call it) combo that much. I don't hate them, but they aren't my favorite or anything I particular long for ever.
Gah, I wanted homemade chocolate chip cookies SO MUCH last night! I'm not even a big cookie fan. I can only conclude my current diet is cookie-deficient and my body is crying out for cookies. Good thing I'm too lazy to actually make them.
When it comes to Oreos, I prefer Oreo thins. With milk. Whole milk, not that skim stuff.
Yes, craving cookies means you have a magnesium deficiency in your ACV receptor. It is very important to have frequent small cookie-based meals to keep your endocrine chakras in alignment.
And I concur, Oreo thins are superior
Hmm I wonder if I could convince my husband my endocrine chakras absolutely must be aligned with warm homemade chocolate chip cookies? Oreos just don't have the same therapeutic value
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Carlos_421 wrote: »Oh to be clear, a warm chocolate chip cookie fresh from the oven beats the socks off anything from a package with no contest.
There’s a reason my Oreo thread only crowns them the best packaged cookie.
Also, for optimal deliciousness, Oreos are to be dunked in milk, not just long enough to get the outside wet but long enough for them to soak up the milk, making them a delicious gooey morsel of chocolatey milky bliss.
Have you never tried one of these?
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Twizzlers over Red Vines any day of the week. And on the Oreo front the hot cocoa flavor ones are good.1
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Pedantry revisited, in re: A calorie is a calorie (or not) . . . .
Synecdoche is a just a figure of speech, until someone starts conflating words with the things they represent. Then, we have a nice train-wreck, bring-the-popcorn, kitten-gif MFP argument.
Someone else can have my share of the Oreos. I think they taste like two circles of dark-brown fiberboard with de-minted dollar store toothpaste between.
I want the whole bag of old-school taco flavor Doritos, though.3 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Oh to be clear, a warm chocolate chip cookie fresh from the oven beats the socks off anything from a package with no contest.
There’s a reason my Oreo thread only crowns them the best packaged cookie.
Also, for optimal deliciousness, Oreos are to be dunked in milk, not just long enough to get the outside wet but long enough for them to soak up the milk, making them a delicious gooey morsel of chocolatey milky bliss.
Have you never tried one of these?
The thing about Oreos isn’t just that they’re delicious (though they are). It’s also their versatility and universal awesomeness.
Are there other cookies that are even more tasty just plain straight out of the package? Yes.
Is there another packaged cookie that outreaches the general awesomeness of Oreos? No.1 -
My discussion has become a Cookie Monster.1
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UltraVegBabe wrote: »My discussion has become a Cookie Monster.
Yeah, that tends to happen once pages roll into the double digits around here. We assume the OPs question has been thoroughly debated and devolve into gratuitous food discussion and/or cat memes
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UltraVegBabe wrote: »My discussion has become a Cookie Monster.
It was destined to happen. This is an old/over-debated and hot-buttony issue and really, welcome to MFP. :flowerforyou:
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cmriverside wrote: »UltraVegBabe wrote: »My discussion has become a Cookie Monster.
It was destined to happen. This is an old/over-debated and hot-buttony issue and really, welcome to MFP. :flowerforyou:
It’s so beautiful. Imma cry1 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »My discussion has become a Cookie Monster.
Since you are back now - do you still have questions? Does the information shared in the thread change your mind on anything, will it change your behavior?
Oreos are Vegan by the way, right?2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »UltraVegBabe wrote: »My discussion has become a Cookie Monster.
Since you are back now - do you still have questions? Does the information shared in the thread change your mind on anything, will it change your behavior?
Oreos are Vegan by the way, right?
Oreos are indeed vegan.2 -
When I go on my holiday to the land of the Americans I'm going to get some weird flavoured Oreos (we have some here but not as many as the literal 100s in the States) and do an MFP taste test.2
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moosmum1972 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »When I go on my holiday to the land of the Americans I'm going to get some weird flavoured Oreos (we have some here but not as many as the literal 100s in the States) and do an MFP taste test.
On a similar note when I was in japan I was loving the weird kit kat.
Matcha kitkat ftw!!!!!1 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »*Quietly raises hand......
I can take or leave Oreos. Mostly leave. There are far superior biscuits (British definition) available, why would I waste the calories on Oreos? Unless vegan, then I think they become essential to life.
I have to say. I tried TimTams, because of @Carlos_421 's Oreo thread. They were not awesome.
Lies! Tim Tams are my favorite biscuits (I'm American, and call cookies by their proper name: cookies, but Tim Tams are biscuits. My brain is a strange place)
I particularly like them with opposite corners bit off, one end dunked in coffee, and suck the coffee through until you taste coffee. Then eat the whole biscuit.
Just eat it quickly. It will dissolve in your hand and look like *kitten*.
I made a friend bring me back chocolate mint Tim Tams when he went to Australia last year. I'm so glad Target started selling them here in the US.
Oreos suck. The wafer is to bitter and over powers the frosting.2
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