Ketogenic diet
Replies
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't think you did. He was the least willing to accept the NuSI results and suggested it must be false (although at that point he couldn't stop it from being published), and he seems to think that calories are not, in fact, the reason for weight gain.
Taubes engaged in a debate with Alan Aragon and his pseudoscientific drivel was soundly debunked. Afterward, he flat out said that even if science proved him completely wrong, he would never change his mind about his pet theories.
But I expect no less, since Taubes isn't even a scientist. He's nothing more than a journalist by trade, who latched onto an agenda and is making money off selling his books about it.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Eating in a way that resolves over eating is the key to not regaining on any WOE. Counting calories is good at kicking the can down the road where it is LCHF, HCLF, etc. Until the "WHY" of one's overeating is addressed no long term obesity control is likely to happen.
I still do not grasp while some with no credibility seem to have an emotional need to slam others that are named above who have credibility in black and white.
I don't think you're qualified to talk about anyone's "emotional needs."
Nor credibility either.4 -
JustaJoe00 wrote: »I always wonder about people's path. We are all different, but the same. Age, genes, and enviroment effect your physical being. Its an easy equation usually, if you eat more that your body burns you'll gain fat and the body seems to be really good at storing fat. If you can out exercise your intake, great but as we age, it does change.
Age is just one variable out of many that affects metabolism, but none of them affect it to a degree that escapes energy balance. On that end, you can not out train a bad diet. The possibility exists, but it's in no way sustainable without catabolizing tissue to the point of damage.3 -
Well, his book explains why he says that.
You left your statement open-ended. You neither agree nor disagree in your post. You leave it up to the reader to decide whether your ultimate meaning is "Taubes said those prophetic words and we should all heed them" or "What Taubes is saying is so ridiculous, no one should believe him."
Or anywhere in between.
Not saying you did anything wrong - just that you aren't offering any context.4 -
Taubes engaged in a debate with Alan Aragon and his pseudoscientific drivel was soundly debunked. Afterward, he flat out said that even if science proved him completely wrong, he would never change his mind about his pet theories.
But I expect no less, since Taubes isn't even a scientist.
His biography states he graduated with a degree in physics. That doesn't count?1 -
Yes, for me...I eat vegetables as my carbs...I don't feel neglected.0
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Yes for me. I have suffered PCOS for years and this is the only WOE that has addressed my hormonal imbalances and taken me out of risk for Diabetes.
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Taubes engaged in a debate with Alan Aragon and his pseudoscientific drivel was soundly debunked. Afterward, he flat out said that even if science proved him completely wrong, he would never change his mind about his pet theories.
But I expect no less, since Taubes isn't even a scientist.
His biography states he graduated with a degree in physics. That doesn't count?
That would mean he's credible in the area of physics. While physics apply to energy and matter, the crossover to biochemistry and human metabolism becomes a wash since observable forces in nature are not the same as biological function.
Just to clarify, when observing the potential energy stored in granite, scientists observe variable temperature changes in the environment as it applies to an area surrounding the granite, and if a chunk of it were to fall, measuring the force of gravity as a constant with air resistance and wind direction, they can calculate where it would land at a certain velocity, given no other force confounded that measurement.
As we leave earth's atmosphere, the laws of physics no longer apply as we know it, and we now start heading into astrophysics, and further out we get into quantum physics when it just becomes theory since it can no longer be feasible to measure.
The same application of that changes as we reverse that view into a living organism. We have trillions of cells, receptors, gut microbiota, and cascades of hormonal signaling that can influence any one thing based on the cellular energy status of cells or a group of cells. The laws of physics are bound to earth's standards, but physics can't be directly applied to the metabolic and biological process of individualizing one specific reason for the cause of obesity, and by extension, Taubes's sugar theory.
It's the reason why researchers still conduct obesity studies to this day. On top of energy balance, they are still trying to parse through data to find out logical reasons that drive energy balance to an excessive degree, and that spills over not only into biochemistry and biology, but also [organic] chemistry, environment, socioeconomic factors, psychology, disease, current health status, spirituality, morality, education, and other variables. Read any research paper in their methods for choosing subjects, and they have to weed out a qualifying group through the use of multivariate ratings just to get a homogeneous group to represent a certain population.
So, does his degree in physics count? Not really.
I mean, try to figure this out using physics
https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/technical-documents/articles/biology/interactive-metabolic-pathways-map.html
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Yeah, I figured that. I was ... enthusiastically corrected on my use of the term CICO when I first started posted because I thought it referred more to calorie counting.0 -
So, does his degree in physics count? Not really.
Then I guess you can count the rest of us out on this debate too
I'm not a scientist either, I'm just some idiot that lost 140lb.
His physics degree is what it is - he's openly admitted he's not a very good physicist, and that's why he got into journalism. I'd say on that point alone that his physics degree "doesn't count."
My point was that he has more credentials than many who DO call themselves scientists - but there are people who are going to disqualify his opinions because "he's not a real scientist" or whatever. I personally find that view a bit......myopic.
People are going to disqualify his opinions for a ton of reasons. But to disqualify him on the premise that he's not a scientist when he's got a *physics* degree? That's absurd.6 -
So, does his degree in physics count? Not really.
Then I guess you can count the rest of us out on this debate too I'm not a scientist either, I'm just some idiot that lost 140lb.
His physics degree is what it is - he's openly admitted he's not a very good physicist, and that's why he got into journalism. I'd say on that point alone that his physics degree "doesn't count."
My point was that he has more credentials than many who DO call themselves scientists - but there are people who are going to disqualify his opinions because "he's not a real scientist" or whatever. I personally find that view a bit......myopic.
People are going to disqualify his opinions for a ton of reasons. But to disqualify him on the premise that he's not a scientist when he's got a *physics* degree? That's absurd.
Sure, you can get nitpicky and definitively place him in the science field as a scientist.
At this point, it's not necessarily being a degreed science holder, rather the understanding of the field that's being debated. In the case for Taubes v Aragon, it was nutritional science and obesity. Simple enough. In its basic premise, both are degree holders, Taubes with his degree in physics turned journalist, and Aragon with his degree in nutrition science turned gymbro.
But this is the reason why we disqualify Taubes as a credible source of nutrition science.
https://youtu.be/aRCv5RWXWx8
That said, do you need a formal education to lose weight and look good naked? Hell to the no. It's actually seemingly easier, the less you question it and as long as you're getting results, does it even matter? The only time it matters is when you try to explain it to others. It matters even more when you try to write a book and tell the general public how it works. And if you get it mixed up, it's not the end of your sales or career, but when you vehemently deny that you messed up and just pass blame on the misinterpretation to the people who argue against it, you now lose credibility in your character, not just your degree.
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I like keto. And keto definitely likes me.6
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https://mindbodygreen.com/articles/what-is-the-keto-diet-how-do-you-do-it
This MD goes deep into the science of why a Ketogenic Diet is working so well for more and more people these days.19 -
Taubes engaged in a debate with Alan Aragon and his pseudoscientific drivel was soundly debunked. Afterward, he flat out said that even if science proved him completely wrong, he would never change his mind about his pet theories.
But I expect no less, since Taubes isn't even a scientist.
His biography states he graduated with a degree in physics. That doesn't count?
You gonna let a podiatrist do your vasectomy? I mean, they both have degrees, right?
[ETA:] According to the Wikipedia entry on Taubes, he has a BS in Applied Physics, a MS in Aeronautical Engineering and a Master's in Journalism. So maybe he can design an airplane, understand the physics behind why it flies and write a real pretty article about it, but apparently he slept through the part of his physics courses on laws of energy balance.
Dr. Oz has an MD degree, but he's still a woo-peddling quack who has prostituted his credibility in the name of financial gain.9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://mindbodygreen.com/articles/what-is-the-keto-diet-how-do-you-do-it
This MD goes deep into the science of why a Ketogenic Diet is working so well for more and more people these days.
Stopped at Kim. ugh5 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://mindbodygreen.com/articles/what-is-the-keto-diet-how-do-you-do-it
This MD goes deep into the science of why a Ketogenic Diet is working so well for more and more people these days.
Stopped at Kim. ugh
Surprised?3 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://mindbodygreen.com/articles/what-is-the-keto-diet-how-do-you-do-it
This MD goes deep into the science of why a Ketogenic Diet is working so well for more and more people these days.
Stopped at Kim. ugh
Surprised?
I was hoping3 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://mindbodygreen.com/articles/what-is-the-keto-diet-how-do-you-do-it
This MD goes deep into the science of why a Ketogenic Diet is working so well for more and more people these days.
Stopped at Kim. ugh
I didn't even make it that far.
As stopped at the woo buzzwords "wellness experts"
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So, does his degree in physics count? Not really.
Then I guess you can count the rest of us out on this debate too I'm not a scientist either, I'm just some idiot that lost 140lb.
His physics degree is what it is - he's openly admitted he's not a very good physicist, and that's why he got into journalism. I'd say on that point alone that his physics degree "doesn't count."
My point was that he has more credentials than many who DO call themselves scientists - but there are people who are going to disqualify his opinions because "he's not a real scientist" or whatever. I personally find that view a bit......myopic.
People are going to disqualify his opinions for a ton of reasons. But to disqualify him on the premise that he's not a scientist when he's got a *physics* degree? That's absurd.
I'd disqualify the opinions of someone with a physics degree trying to tell me something about an unrelated field with a "trust me I'm a scientist".
I'm a scientist too, a computer scientist. You won't catch me trying to be an authority on black holes with that.12 -
You gonna let a podiatrist do your vasectomy? I mean, they both have degrees, right?
[ETA:] According to the Wikipedia entry on Taubes, he has a BS in Applied Physics, a MS in Aeronautical Engineering and a Master's in Journalism. So maybe he can design an airplane, understand the physics behind why it flies and write a real pretty article about it, but apparently he slept through the part of his physics courses on laws of energy balance.
Dr. Oz has an MD degree, but he's still a woo-peddling quack who has prostituted his credibility in the name of financial gain.
Of course, I won't let him do my vasectomy - but we're talking about the food we eat, something everyone is qualified to do. We're not talking about cutting open my sack
The point I'm trying to make is that you're invalidating his opinions because you feel he's "not qualified" to report on how people eat. We're ALL experts on how to eat - we need to do it to survive as a frickin' species
I can go through my entire life without having my *kitten* cut open and not have to deal with any opinions on the subject.
They aren't even on the same level. I mean hey, go ahead, disqualify his opinions for whatever reason you like - but I think it's absurd to disqualify his reasoning because you feel he's a podiatrist trying to give the general public vasectomies.12 -
You gonna let a podiatrist do your vasectomy? I mean, they both have degrees, right?
[ETA:] According to the Wikipedia entry on Taubes, he has a BS in Applied Physics, a MS in Aeronautical Engineering and a Master's in Journalism. So maybe he can design an airplane, understand the physics behind why it flies and write a real pretty article about it, but apparently he slept through the part of his physics courses on laws of energy balance.
Dr. Oz has an MD degree, but he's still a woo-peddling quack who has prostituted his credibility in the name of financial gain.
Of course, I won't let him do my vasectomy - but we're talking about the food we eat, something everyone is qualified to do. We're not talking about cutting open my sack
The point I'm trying to make is that you're invalidating his opinions because you feel he's "not qualified" to report on how people eat. We're ALL experts on how to eat - we need to do it to survive as a frickin' species
I can go through my entire life without having my *kitten* cut open and not have to deal with any opinions on the subject.
They aren't even on the same level. I mean hey, go ahead, disqualify his opinions for whatever reason you like - but I think it's absurd to disqualify his reasoning because you feel he's a podiatrist trying to give the general public vasectomies.
Qualified as in "legally allowed to"? Yeah, sure.
Qualified as in "knows what they're talking about"? Not really.8 -
You gonna let a podiatrist do your vasectomy? I mean, they both have degrees, right?
[ETA:] According to the Wikipedia entry on Taubes, he has a BS in Applied Physics, a MS in Aeronautical Engineering and a Master's in Journalism. So maybe he can design an airplane, understand the physics behind why it flies and write a real pretty article about it, but apparently he slept through the part of his physics courses on laws of energy balance.
Dr. Oz has an MD degree, but he's still a woo-peddling quack who has prostituted his credibility in the name of financial gain.
Of course, I won't let him do my vasectomy - but we're talking about the food we eat, something everyone is qualified to do. We're not talking about cutting open my sack
The point I'm trying to make is that you're invalidating his opinions because you feel he's "not qualified" to report on how people eat. We're ALL experts on how to eat - we need to do it to survive as a frickin' species
I can go through my entire life without having my *kitten* cut open and not have to deal with any opinions on the subject.
They aren't even on the same level. I mean hey, go ahead, disqualify his opinions for whatever reason you like - but I think it's absurd to disqualify his reasoning because you feel he's a podiatrist trying to give the general public vasectomies.
The problem is, he's not really talking about the food we eat. He's talking about how the body works. He's saying the body doesn't work the way people who have actually cut someone open say it does. And he's not qualified to do that.
If Taubes told me that he knows lots of people who are happier eating LCHF and then gave me a recipe for his fave appetizers to serve for the Super Bowl, that would be fine. But he's not, he's misrepresenting research and drawing conclusions that would require expertise he simply doesn't have.
You said you wouldn't let him do your vasectomy, but a lot of people are attempting to correct health problems based on his theories. Just because he doesn't have a scalpel in his hand doesn't mean he can't screw up someone's health.14 -
stevencloser wrote: »So, does his degree in physics count? Not really.
Then I guess you can count the rest of us out on this debate too I'm not a scientist either, I'm just some idiot that lost 140lb.
His physics degree is what it is - he's openly admitted he's not a very good physicist, and that's why he got into journalism. I'd say on that point alone that his physics degree "doesn't count."
My point was that he has more credentials than many who DO call themselves scientists - but there are people who are going to disqualify his opinions because "he's not a real scientist" or whatever. I personally find that view a bit......myopic.
People are going to disqualify his opinions for a ton of reasons. But to disqualify him on the premise that he's not a scientist when he's got a *physics* degree? That's absurd.
I'd disqualify the opinions of someone with a physics degree trying to tell me something about an unrelated field with a "trust me I'm a scientist".
I'm a scientist too, a computer scientist. You won't catch me trying to be an authority on black holes with that.
Not defending Taubes becsuse IIRC he has a bachelors in Physics, but Dr. Kevin Hall's PhD is in Physics from McGrill University.
What I would say, is their field of study and work experience will drive some of their knowledge. I believe where KH prevails is mathematical computation.2 -
On that note, Jason Fung and Adam Nally are both physicians. Adam Nally is the second leading shill of EKs next to Jimmy Moore. I wouldn't qualify anyone of them to be properly versed in nutritional science and metabolism, let alone body compositioin. Waving around what degrees someone holds is basically a dick measuring contest.
I'd actually put more trust in most of the experienced MFP members who took the time to understand how it works from food to poop. Just like I'd rather ask the most jacked guy in the gym what his programming was to get big and strong over a healthcare professional who doesn't look like they've stepped into a gym. But, I wouldn't ask jacked and tan to assess acute flank pain.
The field experts do not have to be credentialed or degreed to be considered credible. It's the weight of their understanding and being able to apply it practically that carries credibility.8 -
lol @ carbs like me0
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