Keto Diet - Should I try it?
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I always encourage people to eat in a way they can stick with the rest of their lives. If after researching keto you think you can stick to some variance of it forever, then go for it. If not, then it would just be a bandaid rather than a resolution. No diet or way of eating is magical except the one that makes you feel good, that you enjoy doing, and you can stick with forever.5
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"nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
Not sure from top of my head, but there are athletes who have competed while on ketogenic state, and I am talking ultra marathon runners as well, not just a 1 hour cross-fit session, which can be hard as hell on its won. One major issue with competing on ketogenic state is dehydration, as carbs retain water, and if there no carbs to retain water, dehydration is a possibility. Also, Ben Greenfield has tested this and Dr.Pompa him self tried it in real life scenario while going on a 3 hour bike ride (not casual) and did great, while the others were consuming simple sugars. So, there are fat adopted athletes who do not need coke or various gels to power through an event. However, one must understand, not all of us are physiologically gifted as these athletes, and do not exercise 4, 5 hours a day 5 days per week for 10 years. So, I am not saying I can run a marathon on keto diet, but I am sure I could train my body to do so, without losing time or bonking mid race.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It should be noted that all the endurance athletes who are supposedly keto carb up for and during events.
Quite a few keto athletes will consume their carbs while exercising. Many think that eating carbs while exercising is not a ketogenic diet, but those athletes are often ketogenic at all times because they have burned off their carbs. Eating carbs does not mean one is not ketogenic. KWIM? All keto'ers eat carbs. Some choose to eat them around exercise so it is burned off more quickly, but they are still ketogenic athletes.
Are you saying top endurance athletes compete keto? That is what you seem to be implying. If so, please post the proof sources for your assertions.
I'm saying that someone who is ketogenic may eat carbs while exercising and still be ketogenic. I can't see why they wouldn't be just because they timed their carbs
Or they may not be. You really have no way of knowing. You are just speculation in a way that suits your bias.
Well no. As I had written earlier, my thoughts are based upon what other low carbers write about their experiences. They are my observations.
I doubt you spend much time reading low carb experiences or books. Being on the main forum here, it is often all about CICO without restricting any one thing too much. That is going to be biased towards people's experiences which are not low carb, or for whom low carb did not work out well for them. I could say that you are also speculating to suit your own bias - you don't do low carb because you view it as inferior to your needs or not of your preference.
I often read the experiences of people who stuck with low carb due to their successes. Those are the people I am referring too. Myself included, although due to injuries I am not able to be much of an athlete any more.
And how are these thoughts and observations verified. This is a discussion we've had in the past. If it is a bunch of n=1 based on self reporting, it is not reliable. You choose to make decisions based on that kind of thing. I do not.
And just for clarity, I am biased in favor of whatever helps someone achieve their goals most sustainable and effective manner. For some folks that is keto. For others it's not. There are lots of factors, including preference and compliance that go into each individuals decision. However, the science is clear that keto is suboptimal for exercise of any degree of higher intensity and has no metabolic advantage for fat loss. Keto appears to have some advantage for hunger signalling and control for those who struggle with that.
Someone may choose to do keto anyway for their own reasons but that doesn't change the science. And it doesn't mean a keto diet person eats carbs, exercises and stays in ketosis just because they say they do.
So, my bias is not anti keto. It's anti single solution and the promulgation of less than factual info to support contentions. You've been asked multiple times to post any significant study data that supports your position on keto and exercise and all you give is feels and someone said so. This despite the fact that there are over 2200 studies on ketogenic diet on PubMed. For me, your subjective assertions hold not weight. It reminds me of the old saying, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a naiil.
In all fairness, i think the current limited evidence suggest that low carb is suboptimal for anaerobic/high intensity sports. But there still needs to be more research. Not saying i would ever go low carb because i have tried and it was brutal.1 -
kendramnolan wrote: »HI, I'm 5'1" just looking to lose 18lbs. I just started counting my calories and am toying with the idea of keto. I would be in dire need of support and recipes as pasta and potatoes are staples in my house. I'm curious about how quickly the weight comes off and how healthy that would be. If anyone has any info or just wants to chat and motivate eachother let me know!
Since you don't have a lot to lose, I think you may find Keto a good option. I am the same height as you, have lost 19 lbs on keto and have another 10-15 to go. For me, I could not do the high fat version of keto and I have my own opinions about that. But, I have had had good success with a low carb, low to moderate fat version which focuses on nutrition rather than just consuming tons of fat. I also focus on protein so as to not lose muscle mass. If you are on Facebook, I strongly recommend the "Ketogenic Dieters" FB page because they have a pinned post that is full of awesome information based on science and nutrition.0 -
KrazyKrissyy wrote: »For anyone who says Keto is not sustainable. Well, that's your problem. Yes, I agree that keto can be difficult. But you need to ask yourself if the pros will outweigh the cons. If not, just stick to your own way of eating.
I have epilepsy and ever since keto, my seizures have reduced dramatically. I don't care how difficult keto could get. It's not worth the risk to go back to try previous eating habits (which some were rather nutrient dense by the way, such as my former high carb vegan diet). I've almost died from grandmals in the past (and that was even on medication).
Outside of medical necessity, failure rates for keto is no different than other diets. So statistically speaking, we are all screwed, lol.
LOL This. I always wonder where people get the idea that keto is less sustainable than other diets!
I do think that those of us who stick with keto often do so for a health benefit, or the appetite suppressing effect the many experience. Keto helps with a lot of health issues but it cures none - once you stop using the diet the benefits of low carb usually go away. And so we stick with it even if it does restrict some foods.
What's more interesting, almost all of the touted benefits from keto are the same ones touted for almost all diets. So largely, i believe its the weight loss and greater focus on high quality foods. If you do keto dirty, you probably wont see the same benefits.
There is also largely a personal belief that you will experience these things. And the power of thr placebo is extremely real.
I lost most weight during high carb vegan. Actually was bordering underweight at 115 and 5'6. It did nothing for my seizures though. In fact, they were at their highest. Keto is kinda opposite for me. Over the past couple years, I've slowly gained a fraction of the weight I lost (am a healthy/regular weight now) but am doing much better, medical wise.0 -
"nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
Not sure from top of my head, but there are athletes who have competed while on ketogenic state, and I am talking ultra marathon runners as well, not just a 1 hour cross-fit session, which can be hard as hell on its won. One major issue with competing on ketogenic state is dehydration, as carbs retain water, and if there no carbs to retain water, dehydration is a possibility. Also, Ben Greenfield has tested this and Dr.Pompa him self tried it in real life scenario while going on a 3 hour bike ride (not casual) and did great, while the others were consuming simple sugars. So, there are fat adopted athletes who do not need coke or various gels to power through an event. However, one must understand, not all of us are physiologically gifted as these athletes, and do not exercise 4, 5 hours a day 5 days per week for 10 years. So, I am not saying I can run a marathon on keto diet, but I am sure I could train my body to do so, without losing time or bonking mid race.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It should be noted that all the endurance athletes who are supposedly keto carb up for and during events.
Quite a few keto athletes will consume their carbs while exercising. Many think that eating carbs while exercising is not a ketogenic diet, but those athletes are often ketogenic at all times because they have burned off their carbs. Eating carbs does not mean one is not ketogenic. KWIM? All keto'ers eat carbs. Some choose to eat them around exercise so it is burned off more quickly, but they are still ketogenic athletes.
Are you saying top endurance athletes compete keto? That is what you seem to be implying. If so, please post the proof sources for your assertions.
I'm saying that someone who is ketogenic may eat carbs while exercising and still be ketogenic. I can't see why they wouldn't be just because they timed their carbs
Or they may not be. You really have no way of knowing. You are just speculation in a way that suits your bias.
Well no. As I had written earlier, my thoughts are based upon what other low carbers write about their experiences. They are my observations.
I doubt you spend much time reading low carb experiences or books. Being on the main forum here, it is often all about CICO without restricting any one thing too much. That is going to be biased towards people's experiences which are not low carb, or for whom low carb did not work out well for them. I could say that you are also speculating to suit your own bias - you don't do low carb because you view it as inferior to your needs or not of your preference.
I often read the experiences of people who stuck with low carb due to their successes. Those are the people I am referring too. Myself included, although due to injuries I am not able to be much of an athlete any more.
And how are these thoughts and observations verified. This is a discussion we've had in the past. If it is a bunch of n=1 based on self reporting, it is not reliable. You choose to make decisions based on that kind of thing. I do not.
And just for clarity, I am biased in favor of whatever helps someone achieve their goals most sustainable and effective manner. For some folks that is keto. For others it's not. There are lots of factors, including preference and compliance that go into each individuals decision. However, the science is clear that keto is suboptimal for exercise of any degree of higher intensity and has no metabolic advantage for fat loss. Keto appears to have some advantage for hunger signalling and control for those who struggle with that.
Someone may choose to do keto anyway for their own reasons but that doesn't change the science. And it doesn't mean a keto diet person eats carbs, exercises and stays in ketosis just because they say they do.
So, my bias is not anti keto. It's anti single solution and the promulgation of less than factual info to support contentions. You've been asked multiple times to post any significant study data that supports your position on keto and exercise and all you give is feels and someone said so. This despite the fact that there are over 2200 studies on ketogenic diet on PubMed. For me, your subjective assertions hold not weight. It reminds me of the old saying, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a naiil.
In all fairness, i think the current limited evidence suggest that low carb is suboptimal for anaerobic/high intensity sports. But there still needs to be more research. Not saying i would ever go low carb because i have tried and it was brutal.
Yes, you are right of course if based on the Aragon/ Schoenfeld meta-analysis. Interestingly, I don't have workout issues when low carb, I haven't done keto except for a brief stretch some years ago. But I do have more recovery issues and fatigue afterwards when low carb. I am not a high carb eater in general though. Average day is generally between 100g and 150g.0 -
kendramnolan wrote: »firecat1987 wrote: »no
Would you mind telling my why? I'm genuinely looking for information and would like to hear the reasons from both sides. Thanks!
The point of dieting is to put you in a deficit. You can do this with just eating less of what your normal diet already consists of. There is no point in going through the hoops of keto and risk the keto flu among other issues (electrolyte imbalances).
Just eat less than what you burn and that's it. That's an explanation without rocket science.4 -
KrazyKrissyy wrote: »KrazyKrissyy wrote: »For anyone who says Keto is not sustainable. Well, that's your problem. Yes, I agree that keto can be difficult. But you need to ask yourself if the pros will outweigh the cons. If not, just stick to your own way of eating.
I have epilepsy and ever since keto, my seizures have reduced dramatically. I don't care how difficult keto could get. It's not worth the risk to go back to try previous eating habits (which some were rather nutrient dense by the way, such as my former high carb vegan diet). I've almost died from grandmals in the past (and that was even on medication).
Outside of medical necessity, failure rates for keto is no different than other diets. So statistically speaking, we are all screwed, lol.
LOL This. I always wonder where people get the idea that keto is less sustainable than other diets!
I do think that those of us who stick with keto often do so for a health benefit, or the appetite suppressing effect the many experience. Keto helps with a lot of health issues but it cures none - once you stop using the diet the benefits of low carb usually go away. And so we stick with it even if it does restrict some foods.
What's more interesting, almost all of the touted benefits from keto are the same ones touted for almost all diets. So largely, i believe its the weight loss and greater focus on high quality foods. If you do keto dirty, you probably wont see the same benefits.
There is also largely a personal belief that you will experience these things. And the power of thr placebo is extremely real.
I lost most weight during high carb vegan. Actually was bordering underweight at 115 and 5'6. It did nothing for my seizures though. In fact, they were at their highest. Keto is kinda opposite for me. Over the past couple years, I've slowly gained a fraction of the weight I lost (am a healthy/regular weight now) but am doing much better, medical wise.
Yes, i fully understand that. There is a very well known link between keto and siezure reduction. That doesn't change the statistic though. Its no different than those who have hpyercholesterolemia, an allergy or etc.. those are medical necessities and compliance is a must or their could be consequences.2 -
I understand that a lot of the initial weight loss is simply water weight. I dont think it is healthy to cut out fruit the way keto diets do. There are so many beneficial vitamins in fruit that make it worth eating to me. If you are a fat and meat lover and can give up carbs long term then it might work for you but if go back to carbs the weight will just come back.0
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"nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
Not sure from top of my head, but there are athletes who have competed while on ketogenic state, and I am talking ultra marathon runners as well, not just a 1 hour cross-fit session, which can be hard as hell on its won. One major issue with competing on ketogenic state is dehydration, as carbs retain water, and if there no carbs to retain water, dehydration is a possibility. Also, Ben Greenfield has tested this and Dr.Pompa him self tried it in real life scenario while going on a 3 hour bike ride (not casual) and did great, while the others were consuming simple sugars. So, there are fat adopted athletes who do not need coke or various gels to power through an event. However, one must understand, not all of us are physiologically gifted as these athletes, and do not exercise 4, 5 hours a day 5 days per week for 10 years. So, I am not saying I can run a marathon on keto diet, but I am sure I could train my body to do so, without losing time or bonking mid race.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It should be noted that all the endurance athletes who are supposedly keto carb up for and during events.
Quite a few keto athletes will consume their carbs while exercising. Many think that eating carbs while exercising is not a ketogenic diet, but those athletes are often ketogenic at all times because they have burned off their carbs. Eating carbs does not mean one is not ketogenic. KWIM? All keto'ers eat carbs. Some choose to eat them around exercise so it is burned off more quickly, but they are still ketogenic athletes.
Are you saying top endurance athletes compete keto? That is what you seem to be implying. If so, please post the proof sources for your assertions.
I'm saying that someone who is ketogenic may eat carbs while exercising and still be ketogenic. I can't see why they wouldn't be just because they timed their carbs
Or they may not be. You really have no way of knowing. You are just speculation in a way that suits your bias.
Well no. As I had written earlier, my thoughts are based upon what other low carbers write about their experiences. They are my observations.
I doubt you spend much time reading low carb experiences or books. Being on the main forum here, it is often all about CICO without restricting any one thing too much. That is going to be biased towards people's experiences which are not low carb, or for whom low carb did not work out well for them. I could say that you are also speculating to suit your own bias - you don't do low carb because you view it as inferior to your needs or not of your preference.
I often read the experiences of people who stuck with low carb due to their successes. Those are the people I am referring too. Myself included, although due to injuries I am not able to be much of an athlete any more.
And how are these thoughts and observations verified. This is a discussion we've had in the past. If it is a bunch of n=1 based on self reporting, it is not reliable. You choose to make decisions based on that kind of thing. I do not.
And just for clarity, I am biased in favor of whatever helps someone achieve their goals most sustainable and effective manner. For some folks that is keto. For others it's not. There are lots of factors, including preference and compliance that go into each individuals decision. However, the science is clear that keto is suboptimal for exercise of any degree of higher intensity and has no metabolic advantage for fat loss. Keto appears to have some advantage for hunger signalling and control for those who struggle with that.
Someone may choose to do keto anyway for their own reasons but that doesn't change the science. And it doesn't mean a keto diet person eats carbs, exercises and stays in ketosis just because they say they do.
So, my bias is not anti keto. It's anti single solution and the promulgation of less than factual info to support contentions. You've been asked multiple times to post any significant study data that supports your position on keto and exercise and all you give is feels and someone said so. This despite the fact that there are over 2200 studies on ketogenic diet on PubMed. For me, your subjective assertions hold not weight. It reminds me of the old saying, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a naiil.
My thoughts and observations are not verifiable. No one's are. But the topic was keto athletes, all low carb keto athletes. I said that they don't all carb load. Someone said they do. Neither has evidence... although I think mine is easier to prove since I have never carb loaded. Ever. The only time I ever "carb loaded", if you can call it that, was when I would take about 10 or so jelly beans with me on my runs once they went over 2-3 hours. But I can't prove that either.
Sure, carbs can help fuel high intensity exercise a bit better. Not eating any carbs around that sort of exercise may affect the elite athlete's performance. It may affect the average Joe's performance too, but I doubt it will be noticeable. If it is, then low carb athletes should eat their carbs around exercise. Problem solved.
You've mentioned 2200 studies on pubmed a few times. You know there is not much out there on fat adapted/long term ketogenic athletes. There's just not. It doesn't matter how many times the word ketogenic shows up in pubmed.
I typed in "ketogenic" and had 2286 results. i added NOT "epilepsy" and had 1580 results. Then I added NOT animals and got 922 hits. Finally I added athlete before ketogenic and had 23 hits. I looked at some, and most were not relevant, and of that a few were even laughable. This one was amusing.
Competition Nutrition Practices of Elite Ultramarathon Runners.
Stellingwerff T1.
Author information
Abstract
Anecdotal claims have suggested that an increasing number of ultramarathoners purposely undertake chronic low-carbohydrate (CHO) ketogenic diets while training, and race with very low CHO intakes, as a way to maximize fat oxidation and improve performance. However, very little empirical evidence exists on specific fueling strategies that elite ultramarathoners undertake to maximize race performance. The study's purpose was to characterize race nutrition habits of elite ultramarathon runners. Three veteran male ultrarunners (M ± SD; age 35 ± 2 years; mass 59.5 ± 1.7 kg; 16.7 ± 2.5 hr 100-mi. best times) agreed to complete a competition- specific nutrition intake questionnaire for 100-mi. races. Verbal and visual instructions were used to instruct the athletes on portion sizes and confirm dietary intake. Throughout 2014, the athletes competed in 16 ultramarathons with a total of 8 wins, including the prestigious Western States Endurance Run 100-miler (14.9 hr). The average prerace breakfast contained 70 ± 16 g CHO, 29 ± 20 g protein, and 21 ± 8 g fat. Athletes consumed an average of 1,162 ± 250 g of CHO (71 ± 20g/hr), with minor fat and protein intakes, resulting in caloric intakes totaling 5,530 ± 1,673 kcals (333 ± 105 kcals/hr) with 93% of calories coming from commercial products. Athletes also reported consuming 912 ± 322 mg of caffeine and 6.9 ± 2.4 g of sodium. Despite having limited professional nutritional input into their fueling approaches, all athletes practiced fueling strategies that maximize CHO intake and are congruent with contemporary evidence-based recommendations.
... They asked three elite ultra marathoners what they ate for races in order to see if there is an increasing number of ultra marathoners who train ketogenic. Three. Awesome.
I looked at some of the 23 results and most were very neutral. No better and no worse performance on a ketogenic diet. Some showed a benefit and some did not (these were often the shorter term studies). Very few went up to, or past, 3 weeks. One discussed how it appears fat adaptation can take 2-3+ months... which would make it more difficult to study.
In the past, I made the point to you that there is very little research on ketogenic diets and performance. I stand by that. Maybe in 10 more years there will be more. Being a popular/fad diet will hopefully lead to more research being done.
For fun, I did the same pubmed search as before but took out the word ketogeinic and added nutrition. For "((athlete nutrition) NOT epilepsy) NOT animals" I had over a hundred times more results. If I took out nutrition and added vegetarian, I had over 50 results.
I don't think I have that a ketogenic diet is for everyone, nor do I think I said it fixes everything for everyone. I don't believe I said it holds a metabolic advantage for weightloss either, although there does appear to be a slight advantage for those with IR when compared to a higher carb diet. For those without IR, there is no advantage. I think that was from here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17341711
I tend not to post studies for a few reasons: 1. There are so few long term human studies. 2. The ones I do post seem to always have something wrong with them so they must be discounted. 3. I don't bookmark studies for proving things around here. There are a few I remember the specifics on but usually I read it, get the gist and move on. Researching something to prove myself right to some stranger on the internet is often a waste of time. (Although sometimes it leads to a fun rabbit hole)
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"nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
Not sure from top of my head, but there are athletes who have competed while on ketogenic state, and I am talking ultra marathon runners as well, not just a 1 hour cross-fit session, which can be hard as hell on its won. One major issue with competing on ketogenic state is dehydration, as carbs retain water, and if there no carbs to retain water, dehydration is a possibility. Also, Ben Greenfield has tested this and Dr.Pompa him self tried it in real life scenario while going on a 3 hour bike ride (not casual) and did great, while the others were consuming simple sugars. So, there are fat adopted athletes who do not need coke or various gels to power through an event. However, one must understand, not all of us are physiologically gifted as these athletes, and do not exercise 4, 5 hours a day 5 days per week for 10 years. So, I am not saying I can run a marathon on keto diet, but I am sure I could train my body to do so, without losing time or bonking mid race.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It should be noted that all the endurance athletes who are supposedly keto carb up for and during events.
Quite a few keto athletes will consume their carbs while exercising. Many think that eating carbs while exercising is not a ketogenic diet, but those athletes are often ketogenic at all times because they have burned off their carbs. Eating carbs does not mean one is not ketogenic. KWIM? All keto'ers eat carbs. Some choose to eat them around exercise so it is burned off more quickly, but they are still ketogenic athletes.
Are you saying top endurance athletes compete keto? That is what you seem to be implying. If so, please post the proof sources for your assertions.
I'm saying that someone who is ketogenic may eat carbs while exercising and still be ketogenic. I can't see why they wouldn't be just because they timed their carbs
Or they may not be. You really have no way of knowing. You are just speculation in a way that suits your bias.
Well no. As I had written earlier, my thoughts are based upon what other low carbers write about their experiences. They are my observations.
I doubt you spend much time reading low carb experiences or books. Being on the main forum here, it is often all about CICO without restricting any one thing too much. That is going to be biased towards people's experiences which are not low carb, or for whom low carb did not work out well for them. I could say that you are also speculating to suit your own bias - you don't do low carb because you view it as inferior to your needs or not of your preference.
I often read the experiences of people who stuck with low carb due to their successes. Those are the people I am referring too. Myself included, although due to injuries I am not able to be much of an athlete any more.
And how are these thoughts and observations verified. This is a discussion we've had in the past. If it is a bunch of n=1 based on self reporting, it is not reliable. You choose to make decisions based on that kind of thing. I do not.
And just for clarity, I am biased in favor of whatever helps someone achieve their goals most sustainable and effective manner. For some folks that is keto. For others it's not. There are lots of factors, including preference and compliance that go into each individuals decision. However, the science is clear that keto is suboptimal for exercise of any degree of higher intensity and has no metabolic advantage for fat loss. Keto appears to have some advantage for hunger signalling and control for those who struggle with that.
Someone may choose to do keto anyway for their own reasons but that doesn't change the science. And it doesn't mean a keto diet person eats carbs, exercises and stays in ketosis just because they say they do.
So, my bias is not anti keto. It's anti single solution and the promulgation of less than factual info to support contentions. You've been asked multiple times to post any significant study data that supports your position on keto and exercise and all you give is feels and someone said so. This despite the fact that there are over 2200 studies on ketogenic diet on PubMed. For me, your subjective assertions hold not weight. It reminds me of the old saying, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a naiil.
In all fairness, i think the current limited evidence suggest that low carb is suboptimal for anaerobic/high intensity sports. But there still needs to be more research. Not saying i would ever go low carb because i have tried and it was brutal.
Yes, you are right of course if based on the Aragon/ Schoenfeld meta-analysis. Interestingly, I don't have workout issues when low carb, I haven't done keto except for a brief stretch some years ago. But I do have more recovery issues and fatigue afterwards when low carb. I am not a high carb eater in general though. Average day is generally between 100g and 150g.
Cool. And i can definitely understand the recovery aspect. I didn't realize you were largely still low carb.0 -
"nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
Not sure from top of my head, but there are athletes who have competed while on ketogenic state, and I am talking ultra marathon runners as well, not just a 1 hour cross-fit session, which can be hard as hell on its won. One major issue with competing on ketogenic state is dehydration, as carbs retain water, and if there no carbs to retain water, dehydration is a possibility. Also, Ben Greenfield has tested this and Dr.Pompa him self tried it in real life scenario while going on a 3 hour bike ride (not casual) and did great, while the others were consuming simple sugars. So, there are fat adopted athletes who do not need coke or various gels to power through an event. However, one must understand, not all of us are physiologically gifted as these athletes, and do not exercise 4, 5 hours a day 5 days per week for 10 years. So, I am not saying I can run a marathon on keto diet, but I am sure I could train my body to do so, without losing time or bonking mid race.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It should be noted that all the endurance athletes who are supposedly keto carb up for and during events.
Quite a few keto athletes will consume their carbs while exercising. Many think that eating carbs while exercising is not a ketogenic diet, but those athletes are often ketogenic at all times because they have burned off their carbs. Eating carbs does not mean one is not ketogenic. KWIM? All keto'ers eat carbs. Some choose to eat them around exercise so it is burned off more quickly, but they are still ketogenic athletes.
Are you saying top endurance athletes compete keto? That is what you seem to be implying. If so, please post the proof sources for your assertions.
I'm saying that someone who is ketogenic may eat carbs while exercising and still be ketogenic. I can't see why they wouldn't be just because they timed their carbs
Or they may not be. You really have no way of knowing. You are just speculation in a way that suits your bias.
Well no. As I had written earlier, my thoughts are based upon what other low carbers write about their experiences. They are my observations.
I doubt you spend much time reading low carb experiences or books. Being on the main forum here, it is often all about CICO without restricting any one thing too much. That is going to be biased towards people's experiences which are not low carb, or for whom low carb did not work out well for them. I could say that you are also speculating to suit your own bias - you don't do low carb because you view it as inferior to your needs or not of your preference.
I often read the experiences of people who stuck with low carb due to their successes. Those are the people I am referring too. Myself included, although due to injuries I am not able to be much of an athlete any more.
And how are these thoughts and observations verified. This is a discussion we've had in the past. If it is a bunch of n=1 based on self reporting, it is not reliable. You choose to make decisions based on that kind of thing. I do not.
And just for clarity, I am biased in favor of whatever helps someone achieve their goals most sustainable and effective manner. For some folks that is keto. For others it's not. There are lots of factors, including preference and compliance that go into each individuals decision. However, the science is clear that keto is suboptimal for exercise of any degree of higher intensity and has no metabolic advantage for fat loss. Keto appears to have some advantage for hunger signalling and control for those who struggle with that.
Someone may choose to do keto anyway for their own reasons but that doesn't change the science. And it doesn't mean a keto diet person eats carbs, exercises and stays in ketosis just because they say they do.
So, my bias is not anti keto. It's anti single solution and the promulgation of less than factual info to support contentions. You've been asked multiple times to post any significant study data that supports your position on keto and exercise and all you give is feels and someone said so. This despite the fact that there are over 2200 studies on ketogenic diet on PubMed. For me, your subjective assertions hold not weight. It reminds me of the old saying, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a naiil.
In all fairness, i think the current limited evidence suggest that low carb is suboptimal for anaerobic/high intensity sports. But there still needs to be more research. Not saying i would ever go low carb because i have tried and it was brutal.
Yes, you are right of course if based on the Aragon/ Schoenfeld meta-analysis. Interestingly, I don't have workout issues when low carb, I haven't done keto except for a brief stretch some years ago. But I do have more recovery issues and fatigue afterwards when low carb. I am not a high carb eater in general though. Average day is generally between 100g and 150g.
Cool. And i can definitely understand the recovery aspect. I didn't realize you were largely still low carb.
I did not realize that he is low carb either. Huh.0 -
Yup. Not for any particular reason other than that just the way it come out when I eat the way I prefer. I don't really have issues with cravings and hunger. So, based on recent research, I'm guessing the lower carb helps with those issues."nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
Not sure from top of my head, but there are athletes who have competed while on ketogenic state, and I am talking ultra marathon runners as well, not just a 1 hour cross-fit session, which can be hard as hell on its won. One major issue with competing on ketogenic state is dehydration, as carbs retain water, and if there no carbs to retain water, dehydration is a possibility. Also, Ben Greenfield has tested this and Dr.Pompa him self tried it in real life scenario while going on a 3 hour bike ride (not casual) and did great, while the others were consuming simple sugars. So, there are fat adopted athletes who do not need coke or various gels to power through an event. However, one must understand, not all of us are physiologically gifted as these athletes, and do not exercise 4, 5 hours a day 5 days per week for 10 years. So, I am not saying I can run a marathon on keto diet, but I am sure I could train my body to do so, without losing time or bonking mid race.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It should be noted that all the endurance athletes who are supposedly keto carb up for and during events.
Quite a few keto athletes will consume their carbs while exercising. Many think that eating carbs while exercising is not a ketogenic diet, but those athletes are often ketogenic at all times because they have burned off their carbs. Eating carbs does not mean one is not ketogenic. KWIM? All keto'ers eat carbs. Some choose to eat them around exercise so it is burned off more quickly, but they are still ketogenic athletes.
Are you saying top endurance athletes compete keto? That is what you seem to be implying. If so, please post the proof sources for your assertions.
I'm saying that someone who is ketogenic may eat carbs while exercising and still be ketogenic. I can't see why they wouldn't be just because they timed their carbs
Or they may not be. You really have no way of knowing. You are just speculation in a way that suits your bias.
Well no. As I had written earlier, my thoughts are based upon what other low carbers write about their experiences. They are my observations.
I doubt you spend much time reading low carb experiences or books. Being on the main forum here, it is often all about CICO without restricting any one thing too much. That is going to be biased towards people's experiences which are not low carb, or for whom low carb did not work out well for them. I could say that you are also speculating to suit your own bias - you don't do low carb because you view it as inferior to your needs or not of your preference.
I often read the experiences of people who stuck with low carb due to their successes. Those are the people I am referring too. Myself included, although due to injuries I am not able to be much of an athlete any more.
And how are these thoughts and observations verified. This is a discussion we've had in the past. If it is a bunch of n=1 based on self reporting, it is not reliable. You choose to make decisions based on that kind of thing. I do not.
And just for clarity, I am biased in favor of whatever helps someone achieve their goals most sustainable and effective manner. For some folks that is keto. For others it's not. There are lots of factors, including preference and compliance that go into each individuals decision. However, the science is clear that keto is suboptimal for exercise of any degree of higher intensity and has no metabolic advantage for fat loss. Keto appears to have some advantage for hunger signalling and control for those who struggle with that.
Someone may choose to do keto anyway for their own reasons but that doesn't change the science. And it doesn't mean a keto diet person eats carbs, exercises and stays in ketosis just because they say they do.
So, my bias is not anti keto. It's anti single solution and the promulgation of less than factual info to support contentions. You've been asked multiple times to post any significant study data that supports your position on keto and exercise and all you give is feels and someone said so. This despite the fact that there are over 2200 studies on ketogenic diet on PubMed. For me, your subjective assertions hold not weight. It reminds me of the old saying, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a naiil.
In all fairness, i think the current limited evidence suggest that low carb is suboptimal for anaerobic/high intensity sports. But there still needs to be more research. Not saying i would ever go low carb because i have tried and it was brutal.
Yes, you are right of course if based on the Aragon/ Schoenfeld meta-analysis. Interestingly, I don't have workout issues when low carb, I haven't done keto except for a brief stretch some years ago. But I do have more recovery issues and fatigue afterwards when low carb. I am not a high carb eater in general though. Average day is generally between 100g and 150g.
Cool. And i can definitely understand the recovery aspect. I didn't realize you were largely still low carb.
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I understand that a lot of the initial weight loss is simply water weight. I dont think it is healthy to cut out fruit the way keto diets do. There are so many beneficial vitamins in fruit that make it worth eating to me. If you are a fat and meat lover and can give up carbs long term then it might work for you but if go back to carbs the weight will just come back.
That's only true if you start eating too much.
But I completely agree that it is best to start as you mean to go on on switching to maintenance could be tougher.0 -
I say do what works for you! If the Keto diet is something you can stick with you are comfortable , then go for it. I am needing to lose 24 pounds and as much as I would love to take it off in a month, I know that is not realistic or healthy. I am watching my macro's too such as the gentleman pointed out. I am 25% carbs, 45% protein and 30% fat. I am actually loving it! I am on a 1400 cal diet and am losing roughly 1.5-2.0 pounds a week. I am not starving myself, but I am definitely learning how to eat healthier. Once I lost the weight, I will stick to this lifestyle but will allow myself a Day off to enjoy a meal out or something special. Best of luck!0
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Which sports are these that you are participating in?"nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
(Having a private profile means I can't see your exercise diary.)
I pretty sure you said previously you had to give up sports due to arthritis so that's a happy turnaround in health.1 -
I did Keto for two months- and the only reason I stopped was because I broke my ankle and it wasn't something I could stick too from the couch. I had lost a good amount of weight and was totally on board with the whole process. but I was starting to get sick of the food I was eating. It was so heavy. My body cringed at the sight of bacon(GASP), cheese, sausage, chicken, nuts, eggs. I started getting migraines, and overall I wasn't feeling my best. My salt, magnesium and potassium levels were where they were supposed to be and I was doing everything by the book, but my body hated it. Breaking my ankle gave me the excuse to stop and helped me to see how bad I had been feeling. I know this is not the same result for others, but it was my experience. Truthfully, I don't think we were designed to eat THAT much meat. I know others will disagree with me, but I had to listen to my body. When I broke my ankle and started eating normal again, my body sighed and was totally happy again. It's a pretty destructive diet too. If you think about the increase in animals you are killing, it's depressing. Keto actually turned me vegetarian.
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KrazyKrissyy wrote: »For anyone who says Keto is not sustainable. Well, that's your problem. Yes, I agree that keto can be difficult. But you need to ask yourself if the pros will outweigh the cons. If not, just stick to your own way of eating.
I have epilepsy and ever since keto, my seizures have reduced dramatically. I don't care how difficult keto could get. It's not worth the risk to go back to try previous eating habits (which some were rather nutrient dense by the way, such as my former high carb vegan diet). I've almost died from grandmals in the past (and that was even on medication).
Having a medical condition that necessitates a dietary intervention is one thing.
I have celiac disease, so I understand adopting dietary measures for your health.
Undertaking dietary restriction just because it's a fad is another.
I low carbed for ten years because I thought it was what I needed to do to be thin, but that wasn't motivation enough to keep me eating that way. I don't need motivation to keep eating gluten free, I HAVE to keep eating that way, just like you HAVE to keep eating keto to control your seizures.
Most people eating keto around here don't HAVE to keep eating that way, and when you don't HAVE to be restrictive, motivation wanes over time.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »KrazyKrissyy wrote: »For anyone who says Keto is not sustainable. Well, that's your problem. Yes, I agree that keto can be difficult. But you need to ask yourself if the pros will outweigh the cons. If not, just stick to your own way of eating.
I have epilepsy and ever since keto, my seizures have reduced dramatically. I don't care how difficult keto could get. It's not worth the risk to go back to try previous eating habits (which some were rather nutrient dense by the way, such as my former high carb vegan diet). I've almost died from grandmals in the past (and that was even on medication).
Having a medical condition that necessitates a dietary intervention is one thing.
I have celiac disease, so I understand adopting dietary measures for your health.
Undertaking dietary restriction just because it's a fad is another.
I low carbed for ten years because I thought it was what I needed to do to be thin, but that wasn't motivation enough to keep me eating that way. I don't need motivation to keep eating gluten free, I HAVE to keep eating that way, just like you HAVE to keep eating keto to control your seizures.
Most people eating keto around here don't HAVE to keep eating that way, and when you don't HAVE to be restrictive, motivation wanes over time.
My brother is on the AIP diet because it's the best thing he has found to moderate his IBS. He's loving it and it's great to see him returning to his previous level of health and vitality. Despite his happiness and relief, he's the first to admit that if he didn't have his IBS issues, he'd be eating like he did before. It's much easier to adhere to a strict diet that helps manage a chronic condition when you know how terrible you would feel if you didn't.2 -
Which sports are these that you are participating in?"nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
(Having a private profile means I can't see your exercise diary.)
I pretty sure you said previously you had to give up sports due to arthritis so that's a happy turnaround in health.
To put it more clearly, I participated in many sports and still do to a lesser degree depending on how much I want to pay for it over the next few days or weeks.
Now, I mainly walk, do lifting when my arthralgias in my shoulders and hands allow it, and play basketball with the teen boys team I coach (and to a shorter and lesser degree, soccer). There is no happy turn around. I was playing some basketball on Tuesday, I turned wrong and my worse osteoarthritic hip gave out so now I can feel my hip pain down my thigh when motionless and on Advil... It's the main reason that I have spent too much time on here over the last 36 hours.
In the past, I played basketball, volleyball, soccer, cross country, track&field and rowed on my university's team. In my spare time I ran a few races a year and hiked the Rockies in the summer. I last played on a team in about 2014. Now I just do some P90X and other BeachBody videos, but not as much as I'd like. There are two hip replacements and then knee replacements in my next few years. Thanks for asking.
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