My best friend is on another fad diet. I give up.
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I have a high school friend, and, over the years, I have watched him and his wife skip from a vegetarian to a keto diet to Whole 30, etc., etc. and listened to him brag about losing weight for a time, followed by a period of silence, followed by the joyful announcement of how great his new diet is working for him and his wife. When I told him how I was losing, I was told it sounded too complicated, even with MFP. My MIL is the same way.
Nowadays, I just nod, ask questions, be supportive in their efforts to try to improve themselves, but, unless they're doing something potentially harmful, like a 500 calorie a day crash diet, I'm not going to tell them their way is the wrong way. Any way you get a calorie deficit, you're going to lose weight, and some people just like to complicate things.11 -
Let it go. She doesn't want the help.
I had someone ask me today about my weight loss--what was I doing, was I working out, portion control? After I said calorie counting on MFP , they said "that makes sense" and then went on to talk about someone else who lost weight and what they did. Right then, I decided I will just save my breath next time, they don't really want to know.5 -
I have a high school friend, and, over the years, I have watched him and his wife skip from a vegetarian to a keto diet to Whole 30, etc., etc. and listened to him brag about losing weight for a time, followed by a period of silence, followed by the joyful announcement of how great his new diet is working for him and his wife. When I told him how I was losing, I was told it sounded too complicated, even with MFP. My MIL is the same way.
Nowadays, I just nod, ask questions, be supportive in their efforts to try to improve themselves, but, unless they're doing something potentially harmful, like a 500 calorie a day crash diet, I'm not going to tell them their way is the wrong way. Any way you get a calorie deficit, you're going to lose weight, and some people just like to complicate things.
This is why I never talk about my weight loss on social media outside of MFP. So many people constantly posting their miracle diets and drastic losses and so forth. I won't even go there. I actually had a former classmate HIDE FROM ME in Target and then sent me a message on facebook saying she was ashamed that she gained back the weight she had lost. It made me sad and really confused. People are weird.
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My personal rule for friends who insist on idiotic fad diets is that I won't try to stop them but I refuse to listen to them complain about how hard the diet is. You want to give up eating everything but organic alfalfa sprouts, jolly, but don't expect me to praise your hard work and willingness to suffer. About the third time someone pouts and says, "I'm never going to reach my goal! I'm not losing anything and really miss being able to eat X..." and I respond with, "I'm sorry to hear that. I'm losing steadily and I eat x every day," they stop telling me about the fad diet.13
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Life's too short not to tell your best friend you tell everything to not do something you think is stupid, diets included.
Hugs, OP.
Still, it's not the end of the world if she doesn't listen, but at least you tried.
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I agree that fad diets are usually a bad idea, people who follow them usually end up yo-yo ing and can often be harmful. In saying that not everyone wants to count calories. Using mfp has been super helpful for me and I find entering data to be useful and interesting and loads of others feel the same way, but for some people calorie counting can become obsessive.
I think using something like Keto or IF can be good for some people if they use these diets for portion control and consume high satiating foods. Any time someone uses diets like this they are still doing CI CO, they just may not be physically tracking the calories.4 -
*sigh* it happens... I'd just let it go at this point tbh.. I have a friend who's the same, we used to be roughly the same size (she was a bit heavier than me, but she's also a bit taller, so probably same-ish BMI in the high 30s)... I lost weight through calorie counting and the concept of CICO... she's done keto, water fasting, some weird egg diet, etc... exercise (but didn't change her food habits much)... she'd at most lose 20-30lbs or so, then gain it all back within 3-4 months... it's been 10 years.. she's doing low carb again.. she weighs more than 10 years ago...
You can give all the advice in the world but if someone doesn't like it or doesn't want to listen then there's nothing you can do - besides, some people DO manage just fine without calorie counting or mfp5 -
At a point, I think the best thing to do is lead by example. My mother spent years on cleanses, supplements, bizarre foods, and a whole parade of other "magic bullets." Now, she's finally losing weight through -drumroll- weighing and logging her food, the same way I've been maintaining my weight all along. It just took her a while to accept that because I didn't have a talk show or a column in a women's magazine...14
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elisa123gal wrote: »elisa123gal wrote: »You have to be ready to do it..she's not. Also.. i don't count calories. it is wonderful that it works for you and so many people. But, i don't like counting them either. However, i've lost 30 pounds on another plan where i eat six healthy whole meals a day. i love my way of eating becasue i don't have to think about every single bite of food and i'm lsoing weight effortlessly. I basically eat a whole foods diet ...
So, tell your friend there are other ways to lose besides CICO...but she can't cheat the fact you have to eat healthy meats, fresh vegetables and fruits, and exercise to get fit. period.
No, there is no other way to lose weight besides CICO. The problem is that you're mistaken in what "CICO" is. You lose weight by eating less calories than you burn - there are a lot of ways to arrive at that result, but it's all CICO (which is not a particular kind of diet, but an acronym for "Calories In, Calories Out", which is a short way of defining the law of energy balance - a proven, undeniable principle of physics which defines how weight loss occurs.
CICO is not calorie counting, nor is it eating certain kinds of foods, or at certain times of the day, or sa certain exercise program, or anything else. But no matter what you do, weight loss comes down to consuming less calories than you expend over time.
sorry.. i know you belive this.. and that's cool.. but you're wrong. for example. why do people plateau if CICO always works? k? Gosh.. i ve seen people talk about being stuck at a weight counting calories for three months.. six months.,..on and on. They are desperate to find out why it isn't working any longer. That's becasue the body is more compllicated than CICO.
If someone weighs the same for 6 months at a time they are eating at maintenance. If they were intending to lose weight, there is a mistake in their calculation of calories in or calories out - they are underestimating what they are eating or overestimating what they are burning, or both.
There's a guy over in the Fitness forum trying to gain weight and hasn't gained since October. He thought his maintenance calories were 2600, but since he's been on 3100 calories and isn't gaining weight, his maintenance calories for his activity level are 3100.11 -
It could be worse! It could be an unhealthy fad diet. At least your buddy picked something reasonably nutritious.
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kshama2001 wrote: »elisa123gal wrote: »elisa123gal wrote: »You have to be ready to do it..she's not. Also.. i don't count calories. it is wonderful that it works for you and so many people. But, i don't like counting them either. However, i've lost 30 pounds on another plan where i eat six healthy whole meals a day. i love my way of eating becasue i don't have to think about every single bite of food and i'm lsoing weight effortlessly. I basically eat a whole foods diet ...
So, tell your friend there are other ways to lose besides CICO...but she can't cheat the fact you have to eat healthy meats, fresh vegetables and fruits, and exercise to get fit. period.
No, there is no other way to lose weight besides CICO. The problem is that you're mistaken in what "CICO" is. You lose weight by eating less calories than you burn - there are a lot of ways to arrive at that result, but it's all CICO (which is not a particular kind of diet, but an acronym for "Calories In, Calories Out", which is a short way of defining the law of energy balance - a proven, undeniable principle of physics which defines how weight loss occurs.
CICO is not calorie counting, nor is it eating certain kinds of foods, or at certain times of the day, or sa certain exercise program, or anything else. But no matter what you do, weight loss comes down to consuming less calories than you expend over time.
sorry.. i know you belive this.. and that's cool.. but you're wrong. for example. why do people plateau if CICO always works? k? Gosh.. i ve seen people talk about being stuck at a weight counting calories for three months.. six months.,..on and on. They are desperate to find out why it isn't working any longer. That's becasue the body is more compllicated than CICO.
If someone weighs the same for 6 months at a time they are eating at maintenance. If they were intending to lose weight, there is a mistake in their calculation of calories in or calories out - they are underestimating what they are eating or overestimating what they are burning, or both.
There's a guy over in the Fitness forum trying to gain weight and hasn't gained since October. He thought his maintenance calories were 2600, but since he's been on 3100 calories and isn't gaining weight, his maintenance calories for his activity level are 3100.
...and let's not forget starvation mode doesn't exist. When you go in countries where there's food shortages, people are all skin and bones. Or what about anorexic people, there's a reason they become so thin and frail. I never seen an obese who eats very little food (1000 calories or less) daily for years.9 -
I'd just like to add that I wish someone would have told me about counting calories a long time ago. I was ready to lose weight but didn't know what to do. I don't share anything about losing on fb or even my friends, when they notice & ask, I tell them2
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I've now read up on it. It's basically the "best" of vegan and the "best" of paleo (as determined by the creator). High in vegetables, nuts, seeds, fish, high quality animal proteins, healthy fats, low glycemic fruits, moderate goat and sheep dairy, moderate real whole grains. Low in junk food and other heavily processed convenience foods. Apparently the creator (Dr. Hyman) uses the term "pagan" rather tongue in cheek. The author's previous book was about healthy fats.
So, as I said earlier, the OP's friend seems to have found a nutritious "fad" diet. "Fad" being an odd term for nutrient dense, old fashioned diet.6 -
One of my friends lost 25 lbs doing the HCG diet. She eats 500 calories a day and takes diet drops that dont even have hcg in them. She gains and loses the weight. Basically she starves herself. I dont think that is healthy but she does it and looks good and her results were fast.7
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Does she have undiagnosed thyroid problem that may be causing her confusion?4
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Dr Oz is one of the biggest charlatans out there. He may have been a great cardio-thoracic surgeon, but he sold out long ago.
The idea of CICO is simple enough, but humans are emotional creatures. We will hang onto preconceptions for as long as we possibly can because we want to pin the cause of something on a particular idea.
Give her time.5 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I've now read up on it. It's basically the "best" of vegan and the "best" of paleo (as determined by the creator). High in vegetables, nuts, seeds, fish, high quality animal proteins, healthy fats, low glycemic fruits, moderate goat and sheep dairy, moderate real whole grains. Low in junk food and other heavily processed convenience foods. Apparently the creator (Dr. Hyman) uses the term "pagan" rather tongue in cheek. The author's previous book was about healthy fats.
So, as I said earlier, the OP's friend seems to have found a nutritious "fad" diet. "Fad" being an odd term for nutrient dense, old fashioned diet.
Which is great, but still won't cause you to lose weight unless you eat fewer calories than you expend.5 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I've now read up on it. It's basically the "best" of vegan and the "best" of paleo (as determined by the creator). High in vegetables, nuts, seeds, fish, high quality animal proteins, healthy fats, low glycemic fruits, moderate goat and sheep dairy, moderate real whole grains. Low in junk food and other heavily processed convenience foods. Apparently the creator (Dr. Hyman) uses the term "pagan" rather tongue in cheek. The author's previous book was about healthy fats.
So, as I said earlier, the OP's friend seems to have found a nutritious "fad" diet. "Fad" being an odd term for nutrient dense, old fashioned diet.
Which is great, but still won't cause you to lose weight unless you eat fewer calories than you expend.
Neither will weighing your food and counting every calorie. Millions of people have done that and still eaten more calories than they expended....and therefore not lost weight.
The point is to find a style of eating (either types of food and/or timing of when you eat them) that isn't overly burdensome for your lifestyle/personality and that makes it EASIER for you to eat less than you expend on a consistent basis. Counting calories is not necessary. And if you like the "fad diet" that you pick, you greatly increase the chance of being able to stick to eating appropriate amounts and losing weight.25 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I've now read up on it. It's basically the "best" of vegan and the "best" of paleo (as determined by the creator). High in vegetables, nuts, seeds, fish, high quality animal proteins, healthy fats, low glycemic fruits, moderate goat and sheep dairy, moderate real whole grains. Low in junk food and other heavily processed convenience foods. Apparently the creator (Dr. Hyman) uses the term "pagan" rather tongue in cheek. The author's previous book was about healthy fats.
So, as I said earlier, the OP's friend seems to have found a nutritious "fad" diet. "Fad" being an odd term for nutrient dense, old fashioned diet.
It's great to focus on healthy foods, and a lot of people would do better improving their diet from a nutritional standpoint. So in that regard, eating this way is a good thing.
I have issues with the naming of this plan, as I feel veganism is about the ethics of the choice and isn't a term that should be used casually. You don't dabble in it. I don't know, I just think it's tacky to coopt the word.
Selling the plan as a weight loss thing? Well, I guess the measure of success a person achieves would depend on why the person is carrying extra body fat. Assuming that it's just because their food choices suck, they'd probably drop some weight. However, that only holds true for a certain percent of people with weight issues, and obviously, the amount of calories consumed can still be a problem no matter how nutrient dense an eating plan is.
I wouldn't call this a fad diet, though. I'd say it's superior to what the OP is eating (like a poster upthread, I took a peek at her diary back when she was still here and logging, I think she flew the coop), but calories will still matter.
As for me and my approach with people and diets? I don't talk about it unless asked. I say what I do, tell them it suits my preferences, and change the subject. My sister tried this and hated it. She needs to use other methods to regulate her weight and is still looking for the right one for her.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's great to focus on healthy foods, and a lot of people would do better improving their diet from a nutritional standpoint. So in that regard, eating this way is a good thing.
For the time being, yes. But what happens when she fails to lose weight as she anticipates? She'll conclude that it "doesn't work" and either switch to some other fad or give up entirely.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's great to focus on healthy foods, and a lot of people would do better improving their diet from a nutritional standpoint. So in that regard, eating this way is a good thing.
For the time being, yes. But what happens when she fails to lose weight as she anticipates? She'll conclude that it "doesn't work" and either switch to some other fad or give up entirely.
If the person gives up...then maybe they don't want to do the work required to lose weight. At some point people have to take responsibility for themselves. They need to do their own research and figure out the best diet for them. I know the internet is filled with a lot of bad information but there is also some good info...you just have to keep searching until you find it. Most people that are successful at weight loss have done that.2 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I've now read up on it. It's basically the "best" of vegan and the "best" of paleo (as determined by the creator). High in vegetables, nuts, seeds, fish, high quality animal proteins, healthy fats, low glycemic fruits, moderate goat and sheep dairy, moderate real whole grains. Low in junk food and other heavily processed convenience foods. Apparently the creator (Dr. Hyman) uses the term "pagan" rather tongue in cheek. The author's previous book was about healthy fats.
So, as I said earlier, the OP's friend seems to have found a nutritious "fad" diet. "Fad" being an odd term for nutrient dense, old fashioned diet.
Which is great, but still won't cause you to lose weight unless you eat fewer calories than you expend.
Neither will weighing your food and counting every calorie. Millions of people have done that and still eaten more calories than they expended....and therefore not lost weight.
The point is to find a style of eating (either types of food and/or timing of when you eat them) that isn't overly burdensome for your lifestyle/personality and that makes it EASIER for you to eat less than you expend on a consistent basis. Counting calories is not necessary. And if you like the "fad diet" that you pick, you greatly increase the chance of being able to stick to eating appropriate amounts and losing weight.
It's a given that eating in a way which isn't burdensome makes everything easier. Fad diets which needlessly restrict foods are the opposite of that.
As for the supposed millions of people who accurately log and still don't lose, I don't believe in them. Multiple studies have found that obese people asked to log their eating record a far smaller percentage of their intake than people of normal weight. It's kinda tough to lose when, like actress Dawn French on a recent TV show where they tracked her eating using radioisotopes and compared it to what she admitted to eating, you are eating literally three times as much as you admit to.9 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's great to focus on healthy foods, and a lot of people would do better improving their diet from a nutritional standpoint. So in that regard, eating this way is a good thing.
For the time being, yes. But what happens when she fails to lose weight as she anticipates? She'll conclude that it "doesn't work" and either switch to some other fad or give up entirely.
Did you read my whole post?1 -
Of course, but I seem to have not expressed myself far too elliptically.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's great to focus on healthy foods, and a lot of people would do better improving their diet from a nutritional standpoint. So in that regard, eating this way is a good thing.
For the time being, yes. But what happens when she fails to lose weight as she anticipates? She'll conclude that it "doesn't work" and either switch to some other fad or give up entirely.
Did you read my whole post?
This diet may be healthier than what most people may be eating, but as a weight-loss scheme it's just as faddish as any other. Nor will it actually work, since it's not likely to result in a calorie deficit. How will someone who tries this diet react to that? I'm guessing, not well. Since most healthy diets are broadly similar, there's a good chance this will discourage those who try it and fail to lose weight from troubling themselves to eat healthy at all. If so, in the long run it will do more harm than good.3 -
Of course, but I seem to have not expressed myself far too elliptically.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's great to focus on healthy foods, and a lot of people would do better improving their diet from a nutritional standpoint. So in that regard, eating this way is a good thing.
For the time being, yes. But what happens when she fails to lose weight as she anticipates? She'll conclude that it "doesn't work" and either switch to some other fad or give up entirely.
Did you read my whole post?
This diet may be healthier than what most people may be eating, but as a weight-loss scheme it's just as faddish as any other. Nor will it actually work, since it's not likely to result in a calorie deficit. How will someone who tries this diet react to that? I'm guessing, not well. Since most healthy diets are broadly similar, there's a good chance this will discourage those who try it and fail to lose weight from troubling themselves to eat healthy at all. If so, in the long run it will do more harm than good.
Since I mentioned calories, I don't see why you're disagreeing with me. Specifically:Selling the plan as a weight loss thing? Well, I guess the measure of success a person achieves would depend on why the person is carrying extra body fat. Assuming that it's just because their food choices suck, they'd probably drop some weight. However, that only holds true for a certain percent of people with weight issues, and obviously, the amount of calories consumed can still be a problem no matter how nutrient dense an eating plan is.
I do know how this weight loss thing works. I'm down 90 pounds and have maintained that loss for two years.
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You can't stop people doing dumb crap. The truth is, you could bang on about your opinions on fad diets all day but it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Here's the bottom line: opinions are like *kitten*, everyone has one but nobody wants to see yours5
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25lbsorbust wrote: »Guys, I swear I have tried EVERYTHING to get her to see the CICO light. I gave her a food scale, I showed her the weight I was losing, I told her how easy it was, how you can eat whatever as long as you're under/at your calorie limit for the day. She literally told me that she didn't like counting calories because "[her] food has too many calories in it, and [she] runs out really fast." She didn't see the irony.
She told me yesterday she's doing Dr. Oz's "Pegan" diet now. No weighing, no calorie counting, no definition (that I can find) of what a 'serving' of some of the foods constitutes. I asked her what Dr. Oz meant by a 'cheat day' once a week, or what constituted 'one alcoholic drink'. Mixed drink or single shot? She didn't know. It reminds me of Weight Watchers in all the wrong ways.
Have any of you had any friends taking this route? How did things eventually turn out? Did they ever change? Did the fad diet maybe magically work for them? Should I just let go and let god?
I know you are really trying to help your friend - but your first paragraph does come across as quite over zealous
'Trying EVERYTHING' to get somebody to do things your way rarely ends well with anything.
And yes I do know people who have lost without counting calories and many healthy weight people who stay that way without any sort of counting or logging at all.
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People just do not want to know unless we have a magic way for them to lose...I don't even bother sharing anymore that it's just CICO.3
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I just posted recently on fb sharing my weight loss success so far (22lbs) and my bestie replied — ooohhhh tell me your secret!
I have only shared calorie counting with her and the concept of weight loss 5...6...7 times? She is a sucker for fad diets. I replied that I eat at a calorie deficit. That will be response from now on. No point in going on and on I guess.
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I remember back when my brother lost over 100 pounds about 15 years ago. Sometimes I’d be with him when people asked what he’d done to lose the weight. He’d always answer, “Diet and exercise.” So many people looked disappointed and said, “Oh,” as if his answer smelled bad. I was so naive before that. I really hadn’t realized until then how many people hated that idea!
People can lose and maintain weight on all kinds of diets. Consciously calorie counting isn’t necessary, just the right CICO balance going on. So it doesn’t bug me in the least when people reject calorie counting bc they find it dull or whatever reason and eat in a way that gives them the CICO balance they need. What flabbergasts me is the ones who believe it isn’t even CICO that’s at the core of it.
Your friend’s comment that she can’t count calories bc she runs out of calories too soon makes me think she doesn’t understand the concept. Or maybe she does understand she eats too many calories but feels she needs a new WOE that helps her eat fewer calories bc it’s too hard for her to restrict her current foods?5
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