Of refeeds and diet breaks

Nony_Mouse wrote: »

Idontcareyoupick wrote: »

Nony_Mouse wrote: »

Idontcareyoupick wrote: »

I'm starting my first diet break today. Fingers crossed that is goes well. Kinda hard to get out of the diet mindset. I got 2195 for calories which looks like a whole lot. Good news is I had 4 Oreo ice cream sandwiches with dinner. Hoping to not fill all my extra calories with sweets. Any tips from those successful?

My main tip would be to think about how you envisage eating in life after weight loss, and do that. I ate pretty much the same things on diet breaks as when I'm at a deficit, just more. For me that was mostly adding more snacks, but you could do more snacks (including 'treat' foods you find hard to fit in to your weight loss calorie allowance), bigger meals, or a combination of both.

Also, expect to see a bit of a jump in scale weight initially. This is just replenished glycogen and additional food in your system. It should level out after a few days, then stay fairly steady (allowing for normal fluctuations). It will drop off again when you go back to a deficit.

Thanks so much. I'm a little scared and in awe. Never did a break before and a bit afraid. I've lost a bit over 30 lbs since Sept.

Perfectly normal to be a bit scared. You will be fine though, and we're all here to support you or answer any questions you may have as you go along. If you haven't already, have a quick skim of earlier posts in this thread and read the anecdotes from others who have done a break. You'll see that it's pretty common to be a bit nervous about it!

Thank you for the feed back and support. I've looked some but it's a lengthy thread and gets convoluted

Nony_Mouse wrote: »

alteredsteve175 wrote: »

Any advice on breaking through a plateau?

Took a two week diet break at Christmas time. Went back to calorie restriction on Jan. 4th - 2200 calories to start. No losses - adjusted that to 2000. Still no significant loss. Started a 5/2 plan on March 2nd - 1800 calories weekdays and 2500 on weekends. Targets 30% carbs/40% fats/30% protein.

Weight has been in the 205/209 range for the last six weeks. Libra trend line has leveled out again. My diary is open.

What would you recommend to get weight loss started again?

Hmmm, normally I'd say 'do a diet break'!

If you weren't losing on the flat 2000 a day, changing to the 5/2 plan isn't going to change that, because it's the same deficit over the week.

In the interests of troubleshooting, are you:

- weighing and measuring all foods (your diary suggests you are, just checking)?
- verifying database entries?

Have you:
- increased, decreased, changed activity level or type in any way?

Anything else stressful happening that could cause cortisol-induced water retention that may be masking fat loss? How is your sleep?

What was your deficit before your last diet break, and what was your average weekly weight loss on that?

Have you adjusted cals in line with reduced weight?

It may be that you're eating at maintenance, or very close to it, and simply need to drop cals further. What are your stats (height, weight, activity etc)? How much more weight are you looking to lose?

Yes - weighing and measuring everything when I am at home. Have not verified all database entries, but I do search out the ones that seem more accurate. Don't eat much food that I have not prepared myself (besides chocolate!).

Activity level is down a bit from last year. Working on bringing that back up.

Not much stress. Feel healthy - energy levels good - rarely actually hungry. I sleep well - around 6 hours most nights. I don't think water retention is an issue.

Was at 1550 calories before the December diet break. Lost 45 pounds from March to November - that would suggest an actual deficit around 500 calories per day. Several people suggested raising my daily target to 2300 after the break.

Male. 63. 5' 10" - current weight 205/209 - original target was 175 but I think I will be satisfied to maintain at 185. As noted above, activity is down some, but I am working on adding a couple of hours of workouts each week.

Thanks for your input.

ryenday wrote: »

anubis609 wrote: »

ryenday wrote: »

anubis609 wrote: »

ryenday wrote: »

I wish I could get a DXA scan. I’m clueless as to what my body fat actually is.

My BMI is just within normal around 24.8. My waist-hip ratio is .69 and My waist height ratio .426. (So for a 50+ year old those ratios are darn good). I’m a pear or almost hourglass. Big thunderous thighs but 27 inch waist.

Strength training for 6 months (I can hardly call it lifting ‘heavy’ tho it is heavy for me). But 3 if those months I was still at a considerable deficit and losing quite a bit of weight.

Now that I’m more or less at maintenance I’m so confused. Not happy with how I look, but I’m almost in XS tops with huge hips that look even bigger next to my nice waist. Honestly I think my body just looks weird and I can’t find pants that flatter me.

Lol, I guess I can’t cater to vanity.

You can use visual images of estimated body fat percentages to get a rough estimate. Note that if you fall under a certain image, it's probably best to select the upper end of that range. Many people don't like to admit they carry more fat than they think.

Optionally, you could ask someone to estimate it for you. I've done it for a few people in this thread, and it's purely clinical, albeit unapologetic with the estimate.

Last option would be to get something like a Skulpt body fat analyzer. It's $99 on amazon, and while it's not a DXA, it is reusable and it's fairly more accurate than BIA scales or handheld monitors.

If you're at maintenance weight, but not visually satisfied, just continue to strength train and gradually increase the load. Heavy is always a relative term, so if it's heavy for you, then it's heavy. If you can do more weight, more reps, or more sets, or any combination of all of those, you are gaining an objective measure of strength which helps with muscle development and by extension, will produce a better body shape.

,

Thanks so much for your response! I had some troubles (now past) and missed this at the time.

I’m 53 yo, 27 waist and 39 inch hips. 5”3.75 inches tall. I figure about 28-29% fat? Oh yeah about 144 lb. I’m at maintenance now but at the very top top of my BMI normal range. If you think by these pics that I’m drastically over or underestimating my fat percentage do let me know.
Pictures

FYI I’ve lost a bit over 50 lb in the past calendar year and have a good deal of saggy skin (but it could be worse so no complaints).

My current practice is to eat at maintenance (on a 5:2 IF plan) strength training 2-3 times a week (never on my light calorie days). (I do weights 2X one week and 3X the next). Ample cardio, walking (because I don’t drive) and swimming/hula hoop/mini trampoline for the fun of it —but never too extensive on cardio. I’m no cardio queen!

My goals are really to keep increasing muscle and strength as much as is feasible (I have some physical disabilities to contend with but as a newb to weights these are still pretty irrelevant) and if I go down in size/ improve my appearance that would be highly motivating and gratifying but as an old fart hardly my goal.

I just saw this now, but given the one piece may or may not be accurately showing everything, It's a really rough estimate, but I'm going to say you may be around 35-36% bf, give or take a couple points. Navy calculator puts you at 42% but with only 2/3 data points to run, it's not going to be accurate either: http://fitness.bizcalcs.com/Calculator.asp?Calc=Body-Fat-Navy

There are other calculators online that include more points of measurement to be provide a more accurate reading, as well.

The positive side is that almost anyone is capable of changing their shape given a proper lifting and dieting program. Just be consistent with your lifting and focus on progressively increasing the load (either weights, reps, or sets, or any combination of those), and you will see results over time. Since you may still be new to lifting, you're still prime to show results pretty damn quickly, say in 4-6 months time and take progress pics along the way, you should see changes.

The concept of "stimulate not annihilate" the muscles is enough give them a reason to adapt and change; meaning you don't have to aim for feeling sore all the time. I'm a proponent of using the minimum effective dose for almost everything; e.g. minimum effective weight/sets/reps for muscle stimulus and the minimum effective deficit to lose fat.

I’m doing something wrong then, cause navy calculator you linked to came up 27% not 42% when I entered my stats (thank you for link) so I’m just confused. No biggie, tho . (Female, 5’3, 144 lb, 27 waist, 39 hips, 13 neck. ). Thanks

Several good stats to track anyway - and 3 different readings for women.

The bigger the gap, either potentially more inaccurate, or you know full well some measured body part is just fine for you, but out of proportion compared to average - like many people have.

www.gymgoal.com/dtool_fat.html

That is difficult if not impossible to get around, because the statistical models the formula's are based on I'm doubtful would have included that.

Just saw MIB with kiddo - the scene where wife tells hubby his skin is lose and the bug pulls his face back tight - got a 3rd hand to minimize it with assist out of the way?

Just as another data point - I got a DXA scan in February. When I enter my stats in the various calculators I come up with this -
27.83 - Navy #1
26.13 - Navy #2
18.5 Covert
Average - 24.2 (compared with the 24.8 from the DXA)

Female, age 67, 5'3", 108 lbs. at time of DXA. I carry most of my fat around my middle.

alteredsteve175 wrote: »

Nony_Mouse wrote: »

alteredsteve175 wrote: »

Nony_Mouse wrote: »

alteredsteve175 wrote: »

Any advice on breaking through a plateau?

Took a two week diet break at Christmas time. Went back to calorie restriction on Jan. 4th - 2200 calories to start. No losses - adjusted that to 2000. Still no significant loss. Started a 5/2 plan on March 2nd - 1800 calories weekdays and 2500 on weekends. Targets 30% carbs/40% fats/30% protein.

Weight has been in the 205/209 range for the last six weeks. Libra trend line has leveled out again. My diary is open.

What would you recommend to get weight loss started again?

Hmmm, normally I'd say 'do a diet break'!

If you weren't losing on the flat 2000 a day, changing to the 5/2 plan isn't going to change that, because it's the same deficit over the week.

In the interests of troubleshooting, are you:

- weighing and measuring all foods (your diary suggests you are, just checking)?
- verifying database entries?

Have you:
- increased, decreased, changed activity level or type in any way?

Anything else stressful happening that could cause cortisol-induced water retention that may be masking fat loss? How is your sleep?

What was your deficit before your last diet break, and what was your average weekly weight loss on that?

Have you adjusted cals in line with reduced weight?

It may be that you're eating at maintenance, or very close to it, and simply need to drop cals further. What are your stats (height, weight, activity etc)? How much more weight are you looking to lose?

Yes - weighing and measuring everything when I am at home. Have not verified all database entries, but I do search out the ones that seem more accurate. Don't eat much food that I have not prepared myself (besides chocolate!).

Activity level is down a bit from last year. Working on bringing that back up.

Not much stress. Feel healthy - energy levels good - rarely actually hungry. I sleep well - around 6 hours most nights. I don't think water retention is an issue.

Was at 1550 calories before the December diet break. Lost 45 pounds from March to November - that would suggest an actual deficit around 500 calories per day. Several people suggested raising my daily target to 2300 after the break.

Male. 63. 5' 10" - current weight 205/209 - original target was 175 but I think I will be satisfied to maintain at 185. As noted above, activity is down some, but I am working on adding a couple of hours of workouts each week.

Thanks for your input.

Ah yes, I remember those conversations around your TDEE now. I think, sad to say, having tried the higher cals, your TDEE appears to be lower than anticipated. Good to have tried it, but it's probably time to reduce cals a bit more and/or increase activity. I'd also look at ways to increase NEAT in addition to the additional workouts (and in fact you may be able to push your TDEE up enough with NEAT to not need the extra workouts, it's amazing how much difference incidental movement really makes).

Thanks, Nony. I don't usually mind being different, but why does my TDEE have to be so low?

I think I will try reducing calories to average 1700 per day. And work on ways to push up NEAT.

Any thoughts on eating more on weekends as opposed to eating at the same level every day?

As a person with a very low actual TDEE compared to the calculated averages, I feel ya!

As for not eating the same level every day, that is the only thing that keeps me from being constantly hangry. Granted, I’m a bit on the extreme end ( 5:2 intermittent fast) but there is no reason why such calorie banking or cycling would hurt, or I haven’t found any. Logically, cycling calories might even improve leptin adaptations and glycogen stores, I would think. But I don’t have Lyle’s book yet so perhaps someone more informed could enlighten us?

alteredsteve175 wrote: »

Nony_Mouse wrote: »

alteredsteve175 wrote: »

Nony_Mouse wrote: »

alteredsteve175 wrote: »

Any advice on breaking through a plateau?

Took a two week diet break at Christmas time. Went back to calorie restriction on Jan. 4th - 2200 calories to start. No losses - adjusted that to 2000. Still no significant loss. Started a 5/2 plan on March 2nd - 1800 calories weekdays and 2500 on weekends. Targets 30% carbs/40% fats/30% protein.

Weight has been in the 205/209 range for the last six weeks. Libra trend line has leveled out again. My diary is open.

What would you recommend to get weight loss started again?

Hmmm, normally I'd say 'do a diet break'!

If you weren't losing on the flat 2000 a day, changing to the 5/2 plan isn't going to change that, because it's the same deficit over the week.

In the interests of troubleshooting, are you:

- weighing and measuring all foods (your diary suggests you are, just checking)?
- verifying database entries?

Have you:
- increased, decreased, changed activity level or type in any way?

Anything else stressful happening that could cause cortisol-induced water retention that may be masking fat loss? How is your sleep?

What was your deficit before your last diet break, and what was your average weekly weight loss on that?

Have you adjusted cals in line with reduced weight?

It may be that you're eating at maintenance, or very close to it, and simply need to drop cals further. What are your stats (height, weight, activity etc)? How much more weight are you looking to lose?

Yes - weighing and measuring everything when I am at home. Have not verified all database entries, but I do search out the ones that seem more accurate. Don't eat much food that I have not prepared myself (besides chocolate!).

Activity level is down a bit from last year. Working on bringing that back up.

Not much stress. Feel healthy - energy levels good - rarely actually hungry. I sleep well - around 6 hours most nights. I don't think water retention is an issue.

Was at 1550 calories before the December diet break. Lost 45 pounds from March to November - that would suggest an actual deficit around 500 calories per day. Several people suggested raising my daily target to 2300 after the break.

Male. 63. 5' 10" - current weight 205/209 - original target was 175 but I think I will be satisfied to maintain at 185. As noted above, activity is down some, but I am working on adding a couple of hours of workouts each week.

Thanks for your input.

Ah yes, I remember those conversations around your TDEE now. I think, sad to say, having tried the higher cals, your TDEE appears to be lower than anticipated. Good to have tried it, but it's probably time to reduce cals a bit more and/or increase activity. I'd also look at ways to increase NEAT in addition to the additional workouts (and in fact you may be able to push your TDEE up enough with NEAT to not need the extra workouts, it's amazing how much difference incidental movement really makes).

Thanks, Nony. I don't usually mind being different, but why does my TDEE have to be so low?

I think I will try reducing calories to average 1700 per day. And work on ways to push up NEAT.

Any thoughts on eating more on weekends as opposed to eating at the same level every day?

If 1700/d is your goal, then that is 11,900kcal/wk. However you would like to incorporate that into weekends is completely your choice, and as long as weekends don't result in explosive binge episodes.

Example: Say you undulated every other day with MWF at 1700kcal, and TR at 1300kcal, that allows you 4200kcal to be split over the weekend, so SSu could be 2100kcal both days (or however you want to split it) which still allows for you to be at 11,900kcal for the week.

Long running averages are more accurate as trends rather than focusing on acute daily intakes, which also mitigates daily fluctuations to account for food bulk, colon waste bulk, water, sodium, TOM, etc.

While our bodies aren't a completely closed system, it's still a bit of a numbers game, given that we can directly control when and what goes in. It's just up to our bodies to decide what goes out and when.

As far as TDEE is concerned, carrying less mass reduces how much our bodies need to work to generate force production. There have been some thoughts to wearing a weight vest equivalent to the amount of weight lost to mimic the amount of force needed when we were once heavier to increase TDEE. Not everyone wants to do that so instead, finding ways to move more in general are needed.

And just for added context, Aadam Ali also provides good insight: http://physiqonomics.com/8-reasons-calorie-deficit/