Of refeeds and diet breaks

MegaMooseEsq wrote: »

jillstreett wrote: »

As, I have been following this, I am so glad to see all the success stories and different tactics and tips and tricks. I wanted to ask about multiple breaks due to multiple plateaus? I mentioned in my post about a break at 16 weeks in (plateau 1) and then a break at 23 weeks in (mini plateau and friends in town.) The first worked to get 8 pounds off then the second worked to get an additional 3 stubborn pounds off. Now I don't know the standard amount of time to wait to say I am in a plateau again. And I am not being impatient, nor have I declared I am in a 3rd plateau, but I do know how to listen to my body and I can tell it's about to happen again. Is it common place, when getting close to your goal/ the place where your body is comfortable, to hit yet another plateau only 3 pounds down from the second plateau? Is this where/ why the higher frequency of breaks comes in to play? Again, I am not making the declaration that I am in one, but my question is can they happen that frequently and should I go ahead and use a diet break again (the second and third break would be 4 weeks apart) to get through this one? Suggestions?

I'm not one of the science brains around here, but I would be wary to use diet breaks as your primary way of combatting plateaus unless you're also very confident in your calorie tracking. I've been losing for 16 months now and the only times I've stopped losing weight for an extended period of time was due to tracking errors or purposeful maintenance eating. That isn't to say that there aren't very real benefits to diet breaks, but I do wonder if your breaks haven't led to a period of increased diligence that then drops away again.

jillstreett wrote: »

collectingblues wrote: »

MegaMooseEsq wrote: »

jillstreett wrote: »

As, I have been following this, I am so glad to see all the success stories and different tactics and tips and tricks. I wanted to ask about multiple breaks due to multiple plateaus? I mentioned in my post about a break at 16 weeks in (plateau 1) and then a break at 23 weeks in (mini plateau and friends in town.) The first worked to get 8 pounds off then the second worked to get an additional 3 stubborn pounds off. Now I don't know the standard amount of time to wait to say I am in a plateau again. And I am not being impatient, nor have I declared I am in a 3rd plateau, but I do know how to listen to my body and I can tell it's about to happen again. Is it common place, when getting close to your goal/ the place where your body is comfortable, to hit yet another plateau only 3 pounds down from the second plateau? Is this where/ why the higher frequency of breaks comes in to play? Again, I am not making the declaration that I am in one, but my question is can they happen that frequently and should I go ahead and use a diet break again (the second and third break would be 4 weeks apart) to get through this one? Suggestions?

I'm not one of the science brains around here, but I would be wary to use diet breaks as your primary way of combatting plateaus unless you're also very confident in your calorie tracking. I've been losing for 16 months now and the only times I've stopped losing weight for an extended period of time was due to tracking errors or purposeful maintenance eating. That isn't to say that there aren't very real benefits to diet breaks, but I do wonder if your breaks haven't led to a period of increased diligence that then drops away again.

Owning my like. I'm not a super-science brain, but a numbers person, and unless everything is 100 percent (well, 99.5%) accurate leading to the plateau, I think it's a rash leap to jump to "I must need a diet break right now to break this".

It's similar to my stance on weight loss and hypothyroid. Don't jump to blaming the hormones until you are absolutely positively *sure* that user error is not a factor.

Funny you bring up the thyriod...mines been tested 12 times....nothing wrong, but different doctors insisting on tests over 29 years. 12 times. But I never let myself blame my weight on it growing up or now because I went the other way and didn't want anything medically "wrong" with me. I agree with don't jump the break, I really do, because had I not had friends coming into town, I wouldn't have even taken the second one, I didn't really want to. I was just asking about the frequency because they work for me. Not because I really want a break, not because I feel deprived, but because I know it works. Also, since the second break, I went back to basics from the very beginning of this journey. The basics that work(ed). Same foods, same measuring, same concept with one less snack to account for the TDEE difference since losing 25 pounds. So I am 99% confident in my tracking and using the deficit appropriate for my new lower weight. I will admit that I am being impatient since I am 4 pounds from my goal, but as a general concept, for my knowledge if I choose to lose more after meeting goal 1, that's why I'm asking?

ryenday wrote: »

alteredsteve175 wrote: »

Nony_Mouse wrote: »

Ah yes, I remember those conversations around your TDEE now. I think, sad to say, having tried the higher cals, your TDEE appears to be lower than anticipated. Good to have tried it, but it's probably time to reduce cals a bit more and/or increase activity. I'd also look at ways to increase NEAT in addition to the additional workouts (and in fact you may be able to push your TDEE up enough with NEAT to not need the extra workouts, it's amazing how much difference incidental movement really makes).

Thanks, Nony. I don't usually mind being different, but why does my TDEE have to be so low?

I think I will try reducing calories to average 1700 per day. And work on ways to push up NEAT.

Any thoughts on eating more on weekends as opposed to eating at the same level every day?

As a person with a very low actual TDEE compared to the calculated averages, I feel ya!

As for not eating the same level every day, that is the only thing that keeps me from being constantly hangry. Granted, I’m a bit on the extreme end ( 5:2 intermittent fast) but there is no reason why such calorie banking or cycling would hurt, or I haven’t found any. Logically, cycling calories might even improve leptin adaptations and glycogen stores, I would think. But I don’t have Lyle’s book yet so perhaps someone more informed could enlighten us?

anubis609 wrote: »

alteredsteve175 wrote: »

Thanks, Nony. I don't usually mind being different, but why does my TDEE have to be so low?

I think I will try reducing calories to average 1700 per day. And work on ways to push up NEAT.

Any thoughts on eating more on weekends as opposed to eating at the same level every day?

If 1700/d is your goal, then that is 11,900kcal/wk. However you would like to incorporate that into weekends is completely your choice, and as long as weekends don't result in explosive binge episodes.

Example: Say you undulated every other day with MWF at 1700kcal, and TR at 1300kcal, that allows you 4200kcal to be split over the weekend, so SSu could be 2100kcal both days (or however you want to split it) which still allows for you to be at 11,900kcal for the week.

Long running averages are more accurate as trends rather than focusing on acute daily intakes, which also mitigates daily fluctuations to account for food bulk, colon waste bulk, water, sodium, TOM, etc.

While our bodies aren't a completely closed system, it's still a bit of a numbers game, given that we can directly control when and what goes in. It's just up to our bodies to decide what goes out and when.

As far as TDEE is concerned, carrying less mass reduces how much our bodies need to work to generate force production. There have been some thoughts to wearing a weight vest equivalent to the amount of weight lost to mimic the amount of force needed when we were once heavier to increase TDEE. Not everyone wants to do that so instead, finding ways to move more in general are needed.

And just for added context, Aadam Ali also provides good insight: http://physiqonomics.com/8-reasons-calorie-deficit/

heybales wrote: »

If taking an aggressive deficit for amount left to be lost to healthy weight, then even more frequent diet breaks may be only way to get around body's reaction.

Or take a more reasonable deficit for longer. For 4 lbs left - 250 cal deficit is reasonable. 1/2 lb weekly.

But also potentially more difficult because too easy to wipe that out and be eating at maintenance from estimating errors.

Several ways around this though.

Take what appears to be a good TDEE estimate - and take 500 cal deficit on just 4 days out of a week. TDEE on 3 days.
That's 2000 cal weekly deficit, and while more than 1/2 lb @ 1750, should account for logging errors.

The 5:2 method provides a 22% deficit, but 5 days at TDEE, 2 days at 25% of TDEE. If you can find 2 good days with enough space, not days after lifting, ect.

Or a whole week at 500 daily deficit, whole week at TDEE. Alternate until gone.

And keep resistance training, and before the 4 lbs is gone (who is seeing your scale exactly besides you?) you may appear like you already lost it to anyone looking.

heybales wrote: »

If taking an aggressive deficit for amount left to be lost to healthy weight, then even more frequent diet breaks may be only way to get around body's reaction.

Or take a more reasonable deficit for longer. For 4 lbs left - 250 cal deficit is reasonable. 1/2 lb weekly.

But also potentially more difficult because too easy to wipe that out and be eating at maintenance from estimating errors.

Several ways around this though.

Take what appears to be a good TDEE estimate - and take 500 cal deficit on just 4 days out of a week. TDEE on 3 days.
That's 2000 cal weekly deficit, and while more than 1/2 lb @ 1750, should account for logging errors.

The 5:2 method provides a 22% deficit, but 5 days at TDEE, 2 days at 25% of TDEE. If you can find 2 good days with enough space, not days after lifting, ect.

Or a whole week at 500 daily deficit, whole week at TDEE. Alternate until gone.

And keep resistance training, and before the 4 lbs is gone (who is seeing your scale exactly besides you?) you may appear like you already lost it to anyone looking.