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"Natural foods" vs "others"
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i can naturally source arsenic and cyanide...i guess i'm good to go right?17
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nettiklive wrote: »... I just thought it was a given that avoiding artificial ingredients was a good thing
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deannalfisher wrote: »i can naturally source arsenic and cyanide...i guess i'm good to go right?
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So where do we stand on flouridated water and iodized salt?12
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deannalfisher wrote: »i can naturally source arsenic and cyanide...i guess i'm good to go right?
IIRC anthrax is also naturally sourced9 -
deannalfisher wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »i can naturally source arsenic and cyanide...i guess i'm good to go right?
IIRC anthrax is also naturally sourced
And OH so healthy for you!11 -
I know this is overly simplified but how about just noticing how you feel after you eat something? I love soft drinks and rice crispy treats but feel like crap when I eat them. Speaking for myself, I feel better when I eat pesticide free lettuce, carrots, oranges, etc and worse when I eat fried Chicfila. I think my body works better when I eat green beans instead of bacon and nitrates. I am grateful to live where I can grab a not as healthy prepackaged peanut butter and cracker pack and a diet coke when I don't plan ahead. Were all in this together. I don't feel quite as hopeless or overwhelmed with weight issues knowing we all have a common goal regardless of how we get there.
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I know this is overly simplified but how about just noticing how you feel after you eat something? I love soft drinks and rice crispy treats but feel like crap when I eat them. Speaking for myself, I feel better when I eat pesticide free lettuce, carrots, oranges, etc and worse when I eat fried Chicfila. I think my body works better when I eat green beans instead of bacon and nitrates. I am grateful to live where I can grab a not as healthy prepackaged peanut butter and cracker pack and a diet coke when I don't plan ahead. Were all in this together. I don't feel quite as hopeless or overwhelmed with weight issues knowing we all have a common goal regardless of how we get there.
All of that can be easily explained be the "nocebo effect". You feel better because you have imbued the "good" products with the belief that they lack anything to make you feel bad.
If you were to do a blind comparison where you were given foods like regular produce vs organic you would not be able to discern which was which.
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Maybe, but the muscle testing I do is very blind and very consistent. Some so called whole foods make me fell yucky too (Brazil nuts, cabbage - yikes, the bloat, etc.) But over all, things considered whole, healthy have a more possitve effect on me personally.14
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WinoGelato wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »Keto_Vampire wrote: »No FDA definition of natural...it's marketing BS
https://fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm456090.htm
I don't need definitions or labels to tell me if a product is natural or not... I can read an ingredient list.
"Marketing BS" is dyeing macaroni with fake orange coloring pretending it's cheese. Or "cream" filled cakes that are shelf-stable and don't expire for years. Or selling 'healthy' yogurt where they replace the fat with a metric ton of sugar and thickeners because they're afraid people won't buy the yogurt if it actually tastes like, you know, yogurt. There is no good reason to add artificial colors or flavors to anything, except marketing.
Things like Amy's frozen meals ARE in fact, made from only natural ingredients. Kraft dinner is not. I do try to cook most meals from scratch but I do stock convenience foods like that on hand for those rushed times, and when I buy those, I read labels and choose those without artificial additives in the ingredient list. I like TJ's for that reason, as all their frozen and convenience meals have natural ingredients only. I choose yogurt that has nothing but milk and cultures, and bread that has only ingredients one would use at home. I keep thinking I should just bake it myself but I'm a bit intimidated by the process.
You want to call it elitism, go ahead, though that's a really weird label for someone's dietary choices. I thought it was just sensible eating. Certainly every one I know in real life tries to avoid these types of foods and make good choices as often as possible. I don't 'buy into' a lot of trends in today's diets such as going gluten or dairy-free because I don't agree with all the claims, but I wouldn't call someone elitist or stupid because they've made that choice. Same as I wouldn't someone who chooses not to consume alcohol or caffeine. It's a personal choice and though it's not mine, I can understand their rationale for it.
This thread just seems weird to me and really twilight-zonish, to read people claiming that natural ingredients have no advantage over man-made ones. I just thought it was a given that avoiding artificial ingredients was a good thing
And this is why conversations like these are pointless. Everyone purporting to subscribe to this superior way of eating - whether you call it “clean” or “natural” or “Whole Foods” or “nothing processed” has their own arbitrary definition that they adhere to but when asked about some of the statements they make about how they eat, it turns out that there are all sorts of exceptions that really aren’t different than how most people eat. The self proclaimed clean eaters always have whey protein powder or go to Chipotle for lunch. The nothing processed folks always say “well you know what I meant” when asked about Greek yogurt or steel cut oats or dried pasta.
It’s very unlikely that any individual is growing, harvesting, slaughtering, and processing all of their own foods. We are busy human beings and most of us are living in a world of.many conveniences. It is “natural” for today’s world to rely on these conveniences, and anyone claiming otherwise is likely using some arbitrary and subjective food classification system. But yes, there’s an air of superiority and elitism inherent in all of these statements. “Everyone I know I’m real life tries to avoid these foods and make good choices as much as possible “. How is that not laden with judgement toward people who do eat a weight watchers meal, a fat free yogurt, a Diet Coke, a kraft dinner and hot dogs on occasion with my kids?
And to your last point, I didn’t actually see anyone saying there was no advantage to eating “natural” foods over artificial... but it’s a weird false choice to project here because it completely ignores, as most of these discussions do, the concept of context and dosage. In the context of a calorie appropriate and overall balanced diet, how is eating a serving of Oreos going to actively harm me?
Well, the original post had no mention of context or dosage.
The question (that I now understand was rhetorical and not an actual discussion, silly me) was:
So all you out there, what makes these "other" food "unnatural"
I answered: what makes it unnatural is the fact that it is, unnatural. Because Yellow #42 does not exist in nature, last I knew,
As for: "How is that not laden with judgement toward people who do eat a weight watchers meal, a fat free yogurt, a Diet Coke, a kraft dinner and hot dogs on occasion with my kids? "
Um, no that wasn't 'laden with a judgment', that was a simple statement of fact. Truly, every single adult I know tries to comprise their family's diets of mainly real, natural foods (let's not pick at words here, we all know what that means). "As much as possible' means just that - there can be pizza nights and parties and halloween candy and fast food on the road and whatever else. However everyone understands these for what they are - not particularly healthy choices that are inferior to 'real'/whole/natural/ whatever you wanna call it foods, again you know what I mean. And understand that they are not equal in healthfulness and should not make up the bulk of someone's diet. All this particularly when it comes to young kids, imo.
But again, the OP made no mention of any of this, he implied that there is no real difference at all between 'natural' and 'non-natural' foods.
But if you want to talk judgement. I do judge, not the people who consume these things but the industry that created them. Convenience is one thing. Promotion of artificially-laden junk molded together from modified corn starch, cheap grease, sugar, salt, and neon coloring, especially targeted to kids, is another. If you ask me, and call me elitist all you want - NO ONE needs to eat that crap, no one, and it should not even be sold as food. The only reason it was is because corporations found a gold mine. I'm incredibly happy that this crap seems to be getting pushed out more and more as people finally demand better food and so many more good quality products are becoming easily available. And when you have good quality food, you don't need to mask it with salt, sugar, and fake flavoring. You know what tastes like cheddar cheese? Cheddar cheese. Boil some pasta, plop in butter and sprinkle some on, voila. Takes the same amount of effort and time.
Okay I'm off my soapbox now. I'm not ripping anyone's cheetos out of their hands. I just don't get the love. So many other delicious, 'real' foods exist to indulge in as a treat. Bake some cookies with real butter, so much better than Oreos. Flame away now36 -
nettiklive wrote: »If we're talking strictly weight loss and calories, of course it doesn't matter.
If we're talking health... I personally believe that any foods or ingredients that are created entirely artificially, ie. do not occur in nature in any form, cannot be good for you. I'm not a microbiologist so I won't claim to know exactly how they affect your body, but it sort of makes sense that we are not meant to eat non-food substances - and these are essentially what those are. For me personally, it grosses me out to be eating these, we don't consume them or buy them in our family aside from rare occasions.
For me, that includes things such as artificial flavorings, artificial colors, artificial preservatives, high corn fructose syrup, artificial sweeteners. Some of the foods we almost never buy or eat are soda, artificially colored/flavored candy/cookies/snacks, junk food like Doritos/ cheetos etc (all-natural tortilla or potato chips very rarely), Wonderbread-style bread, fat free yogurts with added starch/sugar/gelatin, American processed cheese slices, and most fast food chains, among others.
I stand by the opinion that all that stuff is not food, and should never have been created or marketed as food to begin with. I think it is silly to argue that, I don't know, chicken or broccoli is no better than a pack of Hot Cheetos. Artificial ingredients have no real nutrition or benefits to the body (unless artificially 'enriched' and that's questionable) and were only created as palate-pleasing profit-makers and nothing more.
Hypothetical question for you:
Three people are placed on an island. One gets only unlimited broccoli and carrots. One gets only unlimited beans and peas. One gets only unlimited Big Macs. All three get unlimited water. Who lives the longest?
Will it be one of the two on those delicious, oh so nutritious, healthy, good for you, all-natural diets, or the one eating that horrible, toxic, disgusting, "nutritionally empty" non-food substance?
(Remember - we're not talking opinions, woo and fearmongering here. We're talking nutritional facts.)25 -
Hypothetical question for you:
Three people are placed on an island. One gets only unlimited broccoli and carrots. One gets only unlimited beans and peas. One gets only unlimited Big Macs. All three get unlimited water. Who lives the longest?
Will it be one of the two on those delicious, oh so nutritious, healthy, good for you, all-natural diets, or the one eating that horrible, toxic, disgusting, "nutritionally empty" non-food substance?
Clearly, the Big Mac guy will die first.
But only because the other two will end up killing him for his incredibly tasty and nutritionally superior food.57 -
I know this is overly simplified but how about just noticing how you feel after you eat something? I love soft drinks and rice crispy treats but feel like crap when I eat them. Speaking for myself, I feel better when I eat pesticide free lettuce, carrots, oranges, etc and worse when I eat fried Chicfila. I think my body works better when I eat green beans instead of bacon and nitrates. I am grateful to live where I can grab a not as healthy prepackaged peanut butter and cracker pack and a diet coke when I don't plan ahead. Were all in this together. I don't feel quite as hopeless or overwhelmed with weight issues knowing we all have a common goal regardless of how we get there.
Nah, doesn't work for me. I feel like crap if I eat a banana, but give me a party-size pack of Cheese Puffs and I feel great.16 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »
Hypothetical question for you:
Three people are placed on an island. One gets only unlimited broccoli and carrots. One gets only unlimited beans and peas. One gets only unlimited Big Macs. All three get unlimited water. Who lives the longest?
Will it be one of the two on those delicious, oh so nutritious, healthy, good for you, all-natural diets, or the one eating that horrible, toxic, disgusting, "nutritionally empty" non-food substance?
Clearly, the Big Mac guy will die first.
But only because the other two will end up killing him for his incredibly tasty and nutritionally superior food.
You don't think after a day or two, the three of them would get together and share, maybe?11 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »
Hypothetical question for you:
Three people are placed on an island. One gets only unlimited broccoli and carrots. One gets only unlimited beans and peas. One gets only unlimited Big Macs. All three get unlimited water. Who lives the longest?
Will it be one of the two on those delicious, oh so nutritious, healthy, good for you, all-natural diets, or the one eating that horrible, toxic, disgusting, "nutritionally empty" non-food substance?
Clearly, the Big Mac guy will die first.
But only because the other two will end up killing him for his incredibly tasty and nutritionally superior food.
You don't think after a day or two, the three of them would get together and share, maybe?
Shush, you. No room for logic, here.14 -
well natural food is naturally occuring and has mineral and all versus others have chemicals and ingredients that don't make sense
Everything on the planet is made up of chemicals and ingredients. Chemicals are naturally occurring. There are toxic natural substances.
We use certain chemicals/ingredients to make food taste better, preserve food, alter ingredients into a different form. That does not mean the food is toxic.
People can eat whole foods they pick themselves if they want but saying there are no chemicals or something is healthy just because it is less processed lacks understanding.
I'm curious if the person drinks untreated water or avoids medications.9 -
I know this is overly simplified but how about just noticing how you feel after you eat something? I love soft drinks and rice crispy treats but feel like crap when I eat them. Speaking for myself, I feel better when I eat pesticide free lettuce, carrots, oranges, etc and worse when I eat fried Chicfila. I think my body works better when I eat green beans instead of bacon and nitrates. I am grateful to live where I can grab a not as healthy prepackaged peanut butter and cracker pack and a diet coke when I don't plan ahead. Were all in this together. I don't feel quite as hopeless or overwhelmed with weight issues knowing we all have a common goal regardless of how we get there.
Please tell me where you obtain these mythical 'pesticide free' veggies and fruits? You do realize that organic does NOT mean pesticide free? All organic means is that they are regulated as to which pesticides can be used...21 -
I know this is overly simplified but how about just noticing how you feel after you eat something? I love soft drinks and rice crispy treats but feel like crap when I eat them. Speaking for myself, I feel better when I eat pesticide free lettuce, carrots, oranges, etc and worse when I eat fried Chicfila. I think my body works better when I eat green beans instead of bacon and nitrates. I am grateful to live where I can grab a not as healthy prepackaged peanut butter and cracker pack and a diet coke when I don't plan ahead. Were all in this together. I don't feel quite as hopeless or overwhelmed with weight issues knowing we all have a common goal regardless of how we get there.
Please tell me where you obtain these mythical 'pesticide free' veggies and fruits? You do realize that organic does NOT mean pesticide free? All organic means is that they are regulated as to which pesticides can be used...
Can't be that hard - the aphids can find 'em all the time9 -
I know this is overly simplified but how about just noticing how you feel after you eat something? I love soft drinks and rice crispy treats but feel like crap when I eat them. Speaking for myself, I feel better when I eat pesticide free lettuce, carrots, oranges, etc and worse when I eat fried Chicfila. I think my body works better when I eat green beans instead of bacon and nitrates. I am grateful to live where I can grab a not as healthy prepackaged peanut butter and cracker pack and a diet coke when I don't plan ahead. Were all in this together. I don't feel quite as hopeless or overwhelmed with weight issues knowing we all have a common goal regardless of how we get there.
But I feel better after a bag of Doritos and a bowl of Ice Cream, than I do after a salad or some raw carrots. Guess Doritos and Ice Cream are better for me!
Yay!!7 -
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