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Why do people deny CICO ?
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nellypurcelly wrote: »I'm glad that simple CICO works for you. I've tracked calories and exercised diligently for extended periods of time with very minimal results.
CICO is NOT calorie counting...
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Y'all are so patient.
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oceangirl99 wrote: »Yes people are confused. I wonder if it is because a calorie deficit would be very difficult to maintain if all one did was eat Little Debbie snack cakes.oceangirl99 wrote: »Yes you would loose weight and I don't see how anybody could dispute that, but you would have such little volume of food (and lots of carbs/sugar - insulin spikes, etc.) that you would feel hungry ALL THE TIME.oceangirl99 wrote: »I think the reason people think fad diets work (for a while before it drives the dieter nuts!) is basically because their diets are limited (so there isn't mindless eating/you can't have the slice of cake in the break room), it generally allow foods that are less processed and take longer to digest and so you just aren't eating as many calories....... CICO!
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nellypurcelly wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »nellypurcelly wrote: »I'm glad that simple CICO works for you. I've tracked calories and exercised diligently for extended periods of time with very minimal results. I'm sorry, but everyone's health is not the same, and everyone doesn't have the same genetics. Also, the processed food industry works against us with all of the chemical additives they use to create greater profit margins.
I've recently been following an eating plan that works for me, and I've lost 24 lbs in 2.5 months eating the same number of calories that I did before with no specific eating plan. In addition, now that I'm getting the nutrition and energy that I need, I never feel hungry or have any cravings. Therefore, it's much easier to stay on my plan. It's not as simple as CICO, but it still has that as one of its elements. Why do you want to criticize people who find something that works better for them, just because it's different from what works for you?
Do you want to know how we know you didn't read a single post of this thread?
I read enough. No, I didn't read all 51 pages.
Nope...13 -
This thread makes me frustrated and I haven't even posted in it until right now. Kudos to you all with the patience of saints.
One more time for the people in the back...
CICO is not calorie counting. Two different things. I'm not sure what's difficult to grasp about this.
Oy vey.13 -
janejellyroll wrote: »nellypurcelly wrote: »
Energy distribution, i.e., burning fats for energy vs. burning carbs. You may not believe it, but I've consumed the same number of calories per day while exercising consistently for over six months and only lost 4 or 5 lbs. On my current eating plan, I'm consuming the same number of calories and still exercising consistently, and I've lost 24 lbs in 2.5 months.
I believe you *think* you are consuming (and burning) exactly the same amount, but I am not convinced that you have a genetic mutation that has allowed your body to circumvent the laws of energy.janejellyroll wrote: »nellypurcelly wrote: »
Energy distribution, i.e., burning fats for energy vs. burning carbs. You may not believe it, but I've consumed the same number of calories per day while exercising consistently for over six months and only lost 4 or 5 lbs. On my current eating plan, I'm consuming the same number of calories and still exercising consistently, and I've lost 24 lbs in 2.5 months.
I believe you *think* you are consuming (and burning) exactly the same amount, but I am not convinced that you have a genetic mutation that has allowed your body to circumvent the laws of energy.
Oh, ok. You're probably correct. You probably know much more than I do about my health and my diet and exercise habits. I never said that I have a "genetic mutation," but every woman on my mother's side of the family has hypothyroidism and insulin resistance. The insulin resistance is probably not genetic, but probably the result of our family following the government recommendations to eat a low fat diet for decades, which naturally results in eating more carbohydrates. You're probably also correct when you say that I only *think* I'm consuming the same amount, because I'm probably consuming more calories than I used to, and I'm still losing weight. It's just not from the same sources, and I don't feel like I'm constantly hungry any more.20 -
Artemis_Acorn wrote: »I've used MFP off and on since 2011. I've done the CICO formula successfully, and understand those who want to believe that it is just that simple. It worked well every time. For about six months. And then it stopped working. My body adapted to the reduced caloric intake by lowering my BMR. This is a well-documented phenomenon. This article on what happened to contestants on "The Biggest Loser" explains it well: https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/05/big-weight-loss-can-slow-metabolism-long-term-make-it-harder-to-stay-slim/
Those who are looking to lose 15-20 pounds may not encounter this phenomenon, but those (like me) who need to shed over a hundred pounds, and (like me) are insulin resistant, must factor in the workings of the endocrine system to find long-term success. The interplay of insulin, ghrelin, leptin, thyroxin, adrenalin, cortisol, glucagon, HGH, and other hormones is complex. Your hormones are affected by both the amount and type of calories you put in your body, as well as your activity, stress, sleep quality, nutritional deficiencies, electrolyte balance, etc. I don't deny that CICO is a huge component, and for some people, it's all they need to know. Others, like me, need to confront weight loss as part of an overall strategy for improving health that addresses hormonal imbalances and other physiological factors as well as caloric requirements. If CICO alone works for you, more power to ya. Just know that for some of us, it is only part of what we have to do to find long-term success.
No matter what way of eating you choose, your results are directly related to CICO. You don't "do" CICO, CICO is happening all the time...13 -
nellypurcelly wrote: »Energy distribution, i.e., burning fats for energy vs. burning carbs. You may not believe it, but I've consumed the same number of calories per day while exercising consistently for over six months and only lost 4 or 5 lbs. On my current eating plan, I'm consuming the same number of calories and still exercising consistently, and I've lost 24 lbs in 2.5 months.
Not likely...9 -
alyssa_rest wrote: »This thread makes me frustrated and I haven't even posted in it until right now. Kudos to you all with the patience of saints.
One more time for the people in the back...
CICO is not calorie counting. Two different things. I'm not sure what's difficult to grasp about this.
Oy vey.
When you begin to see the extent of mental gymnastics some are willing to commit to justify and excuse their failure, then you begin to understand that success was never the goal.
Fear of success is a very real problem. Success means change and change can be terrifying, but once you take that leap there is no feeling quite like success.17 -
nellypurcelly wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »nellypurcelly wrote: »
Energy distribution, i.e., burning fats for energy vs. burning carbs. You may not believe it, but I've consumed the same number of calories per day while exercising consistently for over six months and only lost 4 or 5 lbs. On my current eating plan, I'm consuming the same number of calories and still exercising consistently, and I've lost 24 lbs in 2.5 months.
I believe you *think* you are consuming (and burning) exactly the same amount, but I am not convinced that you have a genetic mutation that has allowed your body to circumvent the laws of energy.janejellyroll wrote: »nellypurcelly wrote: »
Energy distribution, i.e., burning fats for energy vs. burning carbs. You may not believe it, but I've consumed the same number of calories per day while exercising consistently for over six months and only lost 4 or 5 lbs. On my current eating plan, I'm consuming the same number of calories and still exercising consistently, and I've lost 24 lbs in 2.5 months.
I believe you *think* you are consuming (and burning) exactly the same amount, but I am not convinced that you have a genetic mutation that has allowed your body to circumvent the laws of energy.
Oh, ok. You're probably correct. You probably know much more than I do about my health and my diet and exercise habits. I never said that I have a "genetic mutation," but every woman on my mother's side of the family has hypothyroidism and insulin resistance. The insulin resistance is probably not genetic, but probably the result of our family following the government recommendations to eat a low fat diet for decades, which naturally results in eating more carbohydrates. You're probably also correct when you say that I only *think* I'm consuming the same amount, because I'm probably consuming more calories than I used to, and I'm still losing weight. It's just not from the same sources, and I don't feel like I'm constantly hungry any more.
what you posted has NOTHING to do with CICO - make-up of macros doesn't negate that weight loss is CICO...
break break - i'm permanently hypothyroid (since I have none) and I eat 360-470g of carbs a day and weight stable (female, 5'3" and 160lbs)14 -
nellypurcelly wrote: »Oh, ok. You're probably correct. You probably know much more than I do about my health and my diet and exercise habits. I never said that I have a "genetic mutation," but every woman on my mother's side of the family has hypothyroidism and insulin resistance. The insulin resistance is probably not genetic, but probably the result of our family following the government recommendations to eat a low fat diet for decades, which naturally results in eating more carbohydrates. You're probably also correct when you say that I only *think* I'm consuming the same amount, because I'm probably consuming more calories than I used to, and I'm still losing weight. It's just not from the same sources, and I don't feel like I'm constantly hungry any more.
Nope...10 -
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Calories and adherence for the win...10
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If you gained weight, CICO... If you lost weight, CICO... if your weight stayed the same, CICO...12
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nellypurcelly wrote: »I'm glad that simple CICO works for you. I've tracked calories and exercised diligently for extended periods of time with very minimal results.
CICO is NOT calorie counting...
Clearly. I should have said, "tracked calories and exercised diligently with a deficit." I apologize for thinking that was implied.13 -
nellypurcelly wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »nellypurcelly wrote: »
Energy distribution, i.e., burning fats for energy vs. burning carbs. You may not believe it, but I've consumed the same number of calories per day while exercising consistently for over six months and only lost 4 or 5 lbs. On my current eating plan, I'm consuming the same number of calories and still exercising consistently, and I've lost 24 lbs in 2.5 months.
I believe you *think* you are consuming (and burning) exactly the same amount, but I am not convinced that you have a genetic mutation that has allowed your body to circumvent the laws of energy.janejellyroll wrote: »nellypurcelly wrote: »
Energy distribution, i.e., burning fats for energy vs. burning carbs. You may not believe it, but I've consumed the same number of calories per day while exercising consistently for over six months and only lost 4 or 5 lbs. On my current eating plan, I'm consuming the same number of calories and still exercising consistently, and I've lost 24 lbs in 2.5 months.
I believe you *think* you are consuming (and burning) exactly the same amount, but I am not convinced that you have a genetic mutation that has allowed your body to circumvent the laws of energy.
Oh, ok. You're probably correct. You probably know much more than I do about my health and my diet and exercise habits. I never said that I have a "genetic mutation," but every woman on my mother's side of the family has hypothyroidism and insulin resistance. The insulin resistance is probably not genetic, but probably the result of our family following the government recommendations to eat a low fat diet for decades, which naturally results in eating more carbohydrates. You're probably also correct when you say that I only *think* I'm consuming the same amount, because I'm probably consuming more calories than I used to, and I'm still losing weight. It's just not from the same sources, and I don't feel like I'm constantly hungry any more.
I don't know anything about your health, your diet, and your exercise habits. I don't have to know an individual's habits to know how human biology works. If you're arguing that you have a mutation that makes you an exception to how the human body works, you're free to make that case. But you haven't made it. You're just stating it and expecting us to accept that.
If you are saying that your body will not lose weight in a deficit and that you have the power to lose weight when not at a deficit and this is due to your genetics, you are asserting that you have some sort of mutation.
Would you believe me if I came in here and assured you that I had the power of flight, that human genetics are all different and this is something that my genetics let me do? Or would you want to see something else before accepting that claim?
I'm sorry that your family focused on the recommendation to eat low fat instead of focusing on what matters for a healthy weight -- the number of calories consumed. I get that it's frustrating that we haven't always had straightforward, easy-to-follow dietary recommendations from the government. You're certainly not the only person who has had difficulties because of this -- most people here have wasted time trying things that didn't work for us.
What I think has happened for you is what has happened for a lot of people -- you've found a plan that makes it easier for you to consistently hit a deficit, so weight loss seems easier. This sometimes makes it easy to conclude that it was never the calories -- that it was macros (like it seems to be in your case) or meal timing or eliminating certain foods or whatever. That a calorie deficit creates weight loss doesn't mean that all ways of creating a deficit are equally easy or sustainable for people. So people have various "tricks" or methods that help make a deficit easier. This doesn't mean it isn't the deficit doing the work, but it can sometimes make it seem that way.
(Your hunger, or lack of it, is irrelevant to the purposes of this conversation. People can be hungry at a surplus or full on a deficit, this is a place where macros/meal timing can be important).14 -
nellypurcelly wrote: »nellypurcelly wrote: »I'm glad that simple CICO works for you. I've tracked calories and exercised diligently for extended periods of time with very minimal results.
CICO is NOT calorie counting...
Clearly. I should have said, "tracked calories and exercised diligently with a deficit." I apologize for thinking that was implied.
The only reason you got pegged on this was that a LOT of posters in this thread have sworn up and down that CICO is calorie counting (which it is NOT) and that has been a lot of the back and forth that is going on.9 -
nellypurcelly wrote: »nellypurcelly wrote: »I'm glad that simple CICO works for you. I've tracked calories and exercised diligently for extended periods of time with very minimal results.
CICO is NOT calorie counting...
Clearly. I should have said, "tracked calories and exercised diligently with a deficit." I apologize for thinking that was implied.
This is where reading the thread would have come in handy. It's clear, from the number of times we've gone down this path, that it isn't implied. Many people think that CICO and counting calories is the exact same thing.10
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