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Fat Acceptance Movement
Replies
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I have a few thoughts. I think the idea of stepping off the scale, not worrying what you look like, and focusing on how you feel is really great! Someone can be 200lbs, lethargic, and binge eating cheetos or 200lbs, going on walks daily, and happily eating well. The second person is living a healthy lifestyle while the first isn't giving much care to their body.
However, I have seen issues of shaming people who are big, happy, and interested in improving their health or losing weight. The purpose should be to support each other. Support includes acceptance from the broader community, however, and saying that loving yourself at any size is lazy and an excuse to be unhealthy is super harmful and just plain rude.0 -
People are so strange. When I'm at my usual weight (bmi 19.5-20.5) I get a lot of body shaming comments about being too thin, need to eat a burger, etc but now that I'm severely underweight (16.3) due to illness I don't get body shaming comments anymore. Now all I hear is how great I look. I hate hearing that because I am basically starving to death. 19.5 is too thin but 16.3 is great? I don't get it.9
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This makes a certain amount of sense, if the speakers know about your illness now and didn't before. Now what they mean is "You're probably scared about how thin you're getting so I want to say something positive and reassuring to help keep your morale high during your illness!" Before what they meant was, "If you're doing this on purpose you should maybe think twice about it before you get any thinner."singingflutelady wrote: »People are so strange. When I'm at my usual weight (bmi 19.5-20.5) I get a lot of body shaming comments about being too thin, need to eat a burger, etc but now that I'm severely underweight (16.3) due to illness I don't get body shaming comments anymore. Now all I hear is how great I look. I hate hearing that because I am basically starving to death. 19.5 is too thin but 16.3 is great? I don't get it.
In both cases, the remarks are pretty dumb, invasive, and have a different effect than intended, but it seems likely they are mostly well intended.
By the way I haven't seen a post explaining what your illness is but I'm sorry to hear you're not well and I hope you improve.
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Obviously fat shaming is wrong, but being overweight really is unhealthy- it’s bad for your heart and other organs! I’m fine if you are happy being overweight but you need to know the health problems that come with it. It does actually matter if you are overweight, not because of people’s judgement but because of your life expectancy.2
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rheddmobile wrote: »
This makes a certain amount of sense, if the speakers know about your illness now and didn't before. Now what they mean is "You're probably scared about how thin you're getting so I want to say something positive and reassuring to help keep your morale high during your illness!" Before what they meant was, "If you're doing this on purpose you should maybe think twice about it before you get any thinner."singingflutelady wrote: »People are so strange. When I'm at my usual weight (bmi 19.5-20.5) I get a lot of body shaming comments about being too thin, need to eat a burger, etc but now that I'm severely underweight (16.3) due to illness I don't get body shaming comments anymore. Now all I hear is how great I look. I hate hearing that because I am basically starving to death. 19.5 is too thin but 16.3 is great? I don't get it.
In both cases, the remarks are pretty dumb, invasive, and have a different effect than intended, but it seems likely they are mostly well intended.
By the way I haven't seen a post explaining what your illness is but I'm sorry to hear you're not well and I hope you improve.
@rheddmobile I have gastroparesis and Crohn's. I am just waiting for the call for inpatient TPN (nutrition through a PICC line )and once my weight is up a bit I'm going to get a J tube.3 -
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that - Crohn's sounds rough. Hope you get the help you need and that it works for you.singingflutelady wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
This makes a certain amount of sense, if the speakers know about your illness now and didn't before. Now what they mean is "You're probably scared about how thin you're getting so I want to say something positive and reassuring to help keep your morale high during your illness!" Before what they meant was, "If you're doing this on purpose you should maybe think twice about it before you get any thinner."singingflutelady wrote: »People are so strange. When I'm at my usual weight (bmi 19.5-20.5) I get a lot of body shaming comments about being too thin, need to eat a burger, etc but now that I'm severely underweight (16.3) due to illness I don't get body shaming comments anymore. Now all I hear is how great I look. I hate hearing that because I am basically starving to death. 19.5 is too thin but 16.3 is great? I don't get it.
In both cases, the remarks are pretty dumb, invasive, and have a different effect than intended, but it seems likely they are mostly well intended.
By the way I haven't seen a post explaining what your illness is but I'm sorry to hear you're not well and I hope you improve.
@rheddmobile I have gastroparesis and Crohn's. I am just waiting for the call for inpatient TPN (nutrition through a PICC line )and once my weight is up a bit I'm going to get a J tube.
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My father had extreme morbid obesity and died at 58 after struggling for 2 decades with multiple health problems--type 2 diabetes which led to vision problems and neuropathy, high blood pressure, heart disease which lead to a triple bypass, colon cancer, gastric reflux disease, sleep apnea, severe arthritis and joint pain in his knees, foot problems, and skin problems due to rubbing and moisture in skin folds. He spent most of his last year sitting and sleeping in a recliner surrounded by empty fast food containers and soda cups. He died during an operation for colon cancer--the cancer did not kill him, but he was in such poor physical condition that he died under anesthesia and never woke up after surgery. Don't be deluded by the possibility that poor food choices and health decisions won't catch up with you. You may be lucky, or you may spend years with health problems that you might have avoided. It may not be easy to lose weight, but it is much harder to manage a chronic condition like diabetes or cancer.16
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kristingjertsen wrote: »My father had extreme morbid obesity and died at 58 after struggling for 2 decades with multiple health problems--type 2 diabetes which led to vision problems and neuropathy, high blood pressure, heart disease which lead to a triple bypass, colon cancer, gastric reflux disease, sleep apnea, severe arthritis and joint pain in his knees, foot problems, and skin problems due to rubbing and moisture in skin folds. He spent most of his last year sitting and sleeping in a recliner surrounded by empty fast food containers and soda cups. He died during an operation for colon cancer--the cancer did not kill him, but he was in such poor physical condition that he died under anesthesia and never woke up after surgery. Don't be deluded by the possibility that poor food choices and health decisions won't catch up with you. You may be lucky, or you may spend years with health problems that you might have avoided. It may not be easy to lose weight, but it is much harder to manage a chronic condition like diabetes or cancer.
That's a pretty harrowing account. I'm very sorry to hear not only of your father's suffering but that you lost him so soon and had to watch him go through all that.
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Many believe that fat acceptance is based in the idea of glorifying obesity. Fat acceptance is simply the empowerment of fat people to love their body as it is and make informed choices about it while being treated with equal dignity by those who aren't overweight. It's about respecting the bodily autonomy of others and our limited knowlesge of their circumstances.7
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Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.8
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TheMagicOneMikeD wrote: »Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.
Fact is, in the US government pays 50%+ of healthcare costs. If you pay taxes, their destruction of their own lives does impact you. Healthcare cost, workers comp/disability caused by obesity and possible welfare support for survivors, etc6 -
TheMagicOneMikeD wrote: »Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.
What a ridiculous statement. Shaming a person for their appearance is somehow ok in moderation? You don't know a persons story, so what right do you have to judge them? That is essentially what you are doing by shaming them. I don't necessarily agree with the fat acceptance movement, but I do believe that all humans deserve to be treated with respect no matter how they look. A fat person knows they are fat, but it is up to them (not you) to decide what to do about it.9 -
TheMagicOneMikeD wrote: »Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.
What a ridiculous statement. Shaming a person for their appearance is somehow ok in moderation? You don't know a persons story, so what right do you have to judge them? That is essentially what you are doing by shaming them. I don't necessarily agree with the fat acceptance movement, but I do believe that all humans deserve to be treated with respect no matter how they look. A fat person knows they are fat, but it is up to them (not you) to decide what to do about it.
Oh give me a break.13 -
TheMagicOneMikeD wrote: »TheMagicOneMikeD wrote: »Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.
What a ridiculous statement. Shaming a person for their appearance is somehow ok in moderation? You don't know a persons story, so what right do you have to judge them? That is essentially what you are doing by shaming them. I don't necessarily agree with the fat acceptance movement, but I do believe that all humans deserve to be treated with respect no matter how they look. A fat person knows they are fat, but it is up to them (not you) to decide what to do about it.
Oh give me a break.
Am I not supposed to challenge a statement that I find ridiculous? It is the debate section after all. I believe in basic human decency and treating others with respect. You believe that its ok to shame another person for their appearance and I think that's pretty sad.12 -
Packerjohn wrote: »TheMagicOneMikeD wrote: »Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.
Fact is, in the US government pays 50%+ of healthcare costs. If you pay taxes, their destruction of their own lives does impact you. Healthcare cost, workers comp/disability caused by obesity and possible welfare support for survivors, etc
Would you demand that everyone who has a stressful or sedentary job or long daily commute quit their job and find something else to do? Stress, sitting, and long commute contribute greatly to heart disease. That's a tax burden. Would you give the side eye to every single person who isn't active? Would you go to beaches with a whip running after everyone who is suntanning because cancer is very expensive to treat? Would you hate everyone who owns a car because a larger percentage of health care costs (sometimes 100%) is paid by the government for critical injuries?
A genuine question: if everyone woke up thin, what do you think would happen to taxes?
ETA: didn't see the original fat shaming bit. I wonder if when some people lose weight, their negative attitude against obese people is just a reflection of their own self-hate for their formerly obese self. Fat shaming is not okay in any amount.9 -
TheMagicOneMikeD wrote: »TheMagicOneMikeD wrote: »Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.
What a ridiculous statement. Shaming a person for their appearance is somehow ok in moderation? You don't know a persons story, so what right do you have to judge them? That is essentially what you are doing by shaming them. I don't necessarily agree with the fat acceptance movement, but I do believe that all humans deserve to be treated with respect no matter how they look. A fat person knows they are fat, but it is up to them (not you) to decide what to do about it.
Oh give me a break.
Am I not supposed to challenge a statement that I find ridiculous? It is the debate section after all. I believe in basic human decency and treating others with respect. You believe that its ok to shame another person for their appearance and I think that's pretty sad.
No by all means challenge it, but I disagree with what you said. I find it far more disrespectful and ridiculous to just say nothing to someone who is killing themselves with bad choices. And ppl dont deserve respect just because. Respect is earned. By your standard the most evil people in history that committed all kinds of crimes against humanity deserved respect just because. Yeah I cant agree with that either. So I guess we just agree to think the other ridiculous and move on, because this isn't going anywhere.9 -
So let me tell you...I was a 500 lb man 10 years ago that couldn't walk half of a mile. Now I'm hovering around 330 lbs and have done 10k's, 5k's, and walk 20-30 miles a week, bike, paddleboard, etc, etc. But, I am still fat.
The problem in my opinion is that "fat acceptance" has gone from look, I'm a person that is 360 lbs, but working to be a better version of myself and that's ok...to...oh, I'm a person that is 480 lbs and can't walk up a flight of stairs without being out of breath and then I eat 4000 calories a day and that's ok. And the latter is not ok. I think our society has turned this into "fat shaming" but is it really shaming to say "look man, you can't walk up a flight of effing steps without being out of breath...1. that's not good...and 2. you shouldn't be ok with that." I don't think that's shaming, honestly that's wanting that person to have a better life. Granted it needs to be said in a decently nice way, but sometimes people need to hear those things (from loved ones of course, not strangers). I know I said those kinds of things to myself all of the time.
Now in my life, I do 10k's. I am happy how far I've come and want to keep moving forward. I want people to accept me for who I am, we all do...but at what cost for yourself? Fat shaming aside, it's embarrassing to be 500 lbs and eat a ton everyday. It's embarrassing to be out of breath walking up a flight of steps. It's embarrassing to go out with friends and not be able to fit into a booth. It's embarrassing to have to order clothing online because stores don't hold your size. I could list a hundred things more. It's embarrassing...In my opinion, it's not normal to struggle to walk a mile. Of course there are health reasons, or age, etc that may prevent that...but if you have no problems other than your weight and you struggle to walk a mile, then yes, perhaps you should be ashamed of yourself. I was. Struggling with something that basic is not a good thing. Do you want things to get harder, because they aren't going to get any easier the older you get. When I was 500 lbs, I asked myself all the time, "how did you let yourself get to this point?!?!" I still wonder that. But, the answer doesn't matter...all that matters is that you realize that it's time to change, and change can start today.
I'm sorry if I offend anyone with this post, and I'm sorry to myself that I need to be sorry for offending people (wait, what?!) haha, as I am not trying to shame anyone that struggles...I just wish the world would stop the whole "fat shaming vs. fat acceptance" conversation and look at basic things...if you can't walk a mile, if you can't walk up three flights of steps, if your blood work is jacked up, etc, etc.....these are signs, signs that regardless of acceptance, are telling you that there is a major problem with your body that needs to be remedied.
Again, I'm not trying to be harsh to anyone, just speaking from my own personal experience. When I stood on a scale when I was 24, I expected to see 390, maybe 400...I saw 497...and that was after I already started trying to lose weight. I broke down and I cried, I bawled like a baby...I thought my life was over, I thought I was dead. I was a *kitten* 24 year old that thought my life was over. No matter what people said to me, whether they shamed me, or accepted me, the only person that could help me, was me. I had to start moving more. I had to start eating better (and less). I had to be responsible for who I was, and not worry about if you accept me or not. Great, you accept me for being 600 lbs? Well, good luck to me when I try playing with my kids/grandkids when I'm a 600 lb man. I made the changes not for society, but for me. I want to walk the dog after work every evening, I want to play with my kids/grandkids/nephews/nieces and not sit idly by. I made the changes that I wanted in my life because I knew who I wanted to be and what I had to do to get there. I am well on my way.
Make the changes that you want in your life. Be who you want to be.
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Sorry, hate to sound like a unicorn, but isn't there a happy medium? I recognize there is a need for some sort of movement to empower people who are otherwise marginalized by media/society. Overweight people are marginalized, ridiculed, etc. I was 240 pounds and going on 5 km walks when I was 16 in the hopes of losing weight. People used to slow down their cars and yell out obscenities to me. This happened in suburbia, and almost every single time. I could understand being a target at my high school, as I viewed it as a different planet altogether, and I did my best to try and hide and fly under the radar, but the message I was getting was that I needed to be punished for trying to better myself, and that I should have gone into hiding.
Even with my past experience as a morbidly obese teenager, I don't identify with the Fat Acceptance Movement. While I agree with the empowerment aspect of it, I disagree with any sort of connotation that obesity does not carry health risks. It is almost like a kid who is shamed for eating, and then that kid wolfs down a whole bowl of ice cream as rebellion (which I also used to do). Shaming isn't good. I view the Fat Acceptance Movement as the kid who eats to rebel.
Surely, there's a better way?
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enterdanger wrote: »I'm just over the word "shaming." Its over used and I don't think shame is an external emotion. No one can "make you" feel shame. Shame comes within.
Tell that to the families of people who have committed suicide after being bullied.
http://www.bullyingstatistics.org/content/bullying-and-suicide.html
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amusedmonkey wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »TheMagicOneMikeD wrote: »Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.
Fact is, in the US government pays 50%+ of healthcare costs. If you pay taxes, their destruction of their own lives does impact you. Healthcare cost, workers comp/disability caused by obesity and possible welfare support for survivors, etc
Would you demand that everyone who has a stressful or sedentary job or long daily commute quit their job and find something else to do? Stress, sitting, and long commute contribute greatly to heart disease. That's a tax burden. Would you give the side eye to every single person who isn't active? Would you go to beaches with a whip running after everyone who is suntanning because cancer is very expensive to treat? Would you hate everyone who owns a car because a larger percentage of health care costs (sometimes 100%) is paid by the government for critical injuries?
A genuine question: if everyone woke up thin, what do you think would happen to taxes?
ETA: didn't see the original fat shaming bit. I wonder if when some people lose weight, their negative attitude against obese people is just a reflection of their own self-hate for their formerly obese self. Fat shaming is not okay in any amount.
Obesity is a controllable situation. Occupations that are considered "essential" yet somewhat hazardous to health have existed since the beginning of time.
Hopefully if everyone woke up thin, the rate of increase is slowed. You'll have to get additional information from your elected representatives.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »TheMagicOneMikeD wrote: »Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.
Fact is, in the US government pays 50%+ of healthcare costs. If you pay taxes, their destruction of their own lives does impact you. Healthcare cost, workers comp/disability caused by obesity and possible welfare support for survivors, etc
Which is why the government should NOT be in the healthcare arena. Too easy to pass along consequences to others, rather than those who made the choices that got them into the circumstance.
I'm not in favor of shaming someone. That has to include shaming those who do not find fat attractive. Seems many who call for the end of shaming stop short, and only want SOME shaming ended. Some want to shame others who don't agree with them. I'm equally against having the taxpayer on the hook for "anything goes" when it comes to taking care of oneself.
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Packerjohn wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »TheMagicOneMikeD wrote: »Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.
Fact is, in the US government pays 50%+ of healthcare costs. If you pay taxes, their destruction of their own lives does impact you. Healthcare cost, workers comp/disability caused by obesity and possible welfare support for survivors, etc
Would you demand that everyone who has a stressful or sedentary job or long daily commute quit their job and find something else to do? Stress, sitting, and long commute contribute greatly to heart disease. That's a tax burden. Would you give the side eye to every single person who isn't active? Would you go to beaches with a whip running after everyone who is suntanning because cancer is very expensive to treat? Would you hate everyone who owns a car because a larger percentage of health care costs (sometimes 100%) is paid by the government for critical injuries?
A genuine question: if everyone woke up thin, what do you think would happen to taxes?
ETA: didn't see the original fat shaming bit. I wonder if when some people lose weight, their negative attitude against obese people is just a reflection of their own self-hate for their formerly obese self. Fat shaming is not okay in any amount.
Obesity is a controllable situation. Occupations that are considered "essential" yet somewhat hazardous to health have existed since the beginning of time.
Hopefully if everyone woke up thin, the rate of increase is slowed. You'll have to get additional information from your elected representatives.
But is it? On an individual level, yes, but that may require years if ever to arrive at something that works. On a population level it absolutely isn't. I'm just curious why is the focus always on those who are obese? Is it because "they look it"? What about those who don't control their diabetes? Aren't they a drain on healthcare? What about those who don't wear sunscreen or stay up late? These are things that are even much easier to control than obesity. What about those who spend their lives between the chair and the car?
A shockingly large percentage of people don't even take their prescription medications consistently and we're here talking about ideal worlds where everyone does the right thing so that taxes don't go up. This is the real world and redirecting that frustration on the obese is oddly specific and unfair.5 -
MommyL2015 wrote: »I don't have a problem with it. I honestly don't care what size anyone is because it's not my body, not my life. I don't care if someone's tall, short, skinny, fat, black, purple, gay, straight, is a boy but wants to be a girl, is a girl but wants to be a dog, is married to a car or doesn't like chocolate and puppies. I am against shaming anyone for anything. I don't like it when people capitalize on these things but what you do with your own life isn't my business.
I didn't like myself when I was big and there was enough self-shaming going on. If the general 'you' are happy with whatever you're doing or being, that's fine. Just don't put yourself on TV and expect me to watch.
eta stupid typos.
I was with you until puppies.1 -
tbright1965 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »TheMagicOneMikeD wrote: »Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.
Fact is, in the US government pays 50%+ of healthcare costs. If you pay taxes, their destruction of their own lives does impact you. Healthcare cost, workers comp/disability caused by obesity and possible welfare support for survivors, etc
Which is why the government should NOT be in the healthcare arena. Too easy to pass along consequences to others, rather than those who made the choices that got them into the circumstance.
I'm not in favor of shaming someone. That has to include shaming those who do not find fat attractive. Seems many who call for the end of shaming stop short, and only want SOME shaming ended. Some want to shame others who don't agree with them. I'm equally against having the taxpayer on the hook for "anything goes" when it comes to taking care of oneself.
So you support healthcare paid entirely by the user either by cash or private insurance? How about those with no $. Or how about government employees (including the military) who have health insurance as part of their compensation?4 -
MommyL2015 wrote: »I don't have a problem with it. I honestly don't care what size anyone is because it's not my body, not my life. I don't care if someone's tall, short, skinny, fat, black, purple, gay, straight, is a boy but wants to be a girl, is a girl but wants to be a dog, is married to a car or doesn't like chocolate and puppies. I am against shaming anyone for anything. I don't like it when people capitalize on these things but what you do with your own life isn't my business.
I didn't like myself when I was big and there was enough self-shaming going on. If the general 'you' are happy with whatever you're doing or being, that's fine. Just don't put yourself on TV and expect me to watch.
eta stupid typos.
I'd completely agree with this... except family members. We want our parents to live long lives and see their grandchildren grow older. We have at least one who doesn't appear to be moving that direction.
I have a cousin who is terribly obese. I used to argue with her fat acceptance posts on facebook (just realizing I haven't seen one of her posts in years... must have been unfriended or blocked... whoops) BECAUSE THEY AREN'T HEALTHY. Like, in the most literal sense of the word. I don't think she should feel ashamed of being bigger. I think she should have very real fear that one day she might drop dead from a massive heart attack or whatever else.
Again, I agree that I should normally mind my own business. However, I love some people too much.
I can already see the objection: but we all have to die sometime. Sometimes we die randomly. A piano drops on our head. Does that mean we shouldn't try to get the most out of this one shot (clearly, I'm an atheist)? Why do we sweep when we know it's just going to get dirty again?1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »"tbright1965 wrote:
Which is why the government should NOT be in the healthcare arena. Too easy to pass along consequences to others, rather than those who made the choices that got them into the circumstance.
I'm not in favor of shaming someone. That has to include shaming those who do not find fat attractive. Seems many who call for the end of shaming stop short, and only want SOME shaming ended. Some want to shame others who don't agree with them. I'm equally against having the taxpayer on the hook for "anything goes" when it comes to taking care of oneself.
So you support healthcare paid entirely by the user either by cash or private insurance? How about those with no $. Or how about government employees (including the military) who have health insurance as part of their compensation?
Working for it is paying for it, in labor. I trade my labor for cash and benefits.
Government employees work, and get a benefits package. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about taxing person X over they and then buying or providing coverage for person Y.
If we the people want to cover person Y, then let them write checks, or give away their goods and services to provide the healthcare.
Besides, it's not like the people in DC are any more ethical than the people running the health insurance companies. They both come from the same pool of candidates and often revolve from one arena to the other. So the notions that government is more or less ethical than business is laughable. It's the same pool of talent (and associated ethics) running the show in both cases.3 -
I'd completely agree with this... except family members.
I have a cousin who is terribly obese. I used to argue with her fat acceptance posts on facebook (just realizing I haven't seen one of her posts in years... must have been unfriended or blocked... whoops) BECAUSE THEY AREN'T HEALTHY. Like, in the most literal sense of the word. I don't think she should feel ashamed of being bigger. I think she should have very real fear that one day she might drop dead from a massive heart attack or whatever else.
Yes! My daughter was obese and trying to convince herself for years that it was ok and I was SO worried about her future. That was until my ex, her father, invited her to join him on a vacation the following year to Hawaii and Australia. When that happened, she suddenly went on a diet and lost 100 pounds. She wasn't happy being fat...she just didn't have the incentive to do anything about it. My ex actually did something that I can thank him for.5 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »MommyL2015 wrote: »I don't have a problem with it. I honestly don't care what size anyone is because it's not my body, not my life. I don't care if someone's tall, short, skinny, fat, black, purple, gay, straight, is a boy but wants to be a girl, is a girl but wants to be a dog, is married to a car or doesn't like chocolate and puppies. I am against shaming anyone for anything. I don't like it when people capitalize on these things but what you do with your own life isn't my business.
I didn't like myself when I was big and there was enough self-shaming going on. If the general 'you' are happy with whatever you're doing or being, that's fine. Just don't put yourself on TV and expect me to watch.
eta stupid typos.
I'd completely agree with this... except family members. We want our parents to live long lives and see their grandchildren grow older. We have at least one who doesn't appear to be moving that direction.
I have a cousin who is terribly obese. I used to argue with her fat acceptance posts on facebook (just realizing I haven't seen one of her posts in years... must have been unfriended or blocked... whoops) BECAUSE THEY AREN'T HEALTHY. Like, in the most literal sense of the word. I don't think she should feel ashamed of being bigger. I think she should have very real fear that one day she might drop dead from a massive heart attack or whatever else.
Again, I agree that I should normally mind my own business. However, I love some people too much.
I can already see the objection: but we all have to die sometime. Sometimes we die randomly. A piano drops on our head. Does that mean we shouldn't try to get the most out of this one shot (clearly, I'm an atheist)? Why do we sweep when we know it's just going to get dirty again?
I agree with this, but. Being underweight is statistically even more associated with mortality than all but the worst obesity. Yet very few supermodels or ballerinas are publically shamed for being unhealthy. My conclusion is that some other force is at work, for most fat shamers, than honest concern for other people's health. While in your case if you had an anorexic cousin who posted on pro-Ana sites, you would probably also argue with her posts there, I doubt you would describe your attempts to argue as "shaming." Shaming is wrong, period. It provably doesn't work in terms of encouraging people to lose weight, and it's clearly motivated by emotions other than concern.5 -
Okay, I don't have the time to read all these posts. But from what I know from people involved in the fat acceptance movement, a good percentage of them ARE worried about their health, but don't want to be "body shamed", especially since this hardly ever helps people. They don't want to focus on WEIGHT, but on improving other parameters such as blood glucose, triglycerides, and other important factors... which in nearly all cases will mean losing weight... but they don't want to focus on actual numeric weight, or be discriminated against in the workplace, or be called ugly names when they walk down the street. It is a matter of allowing for personal pride. And there are some truly beautiful obese people, and the fat acceptance movement is right to focus on that -- appreciating a person for whom she or he is. Everyone needs some personal pride.
Now indeed, there are a few, enough to be a notable percentage, who want to USE this movement to justify their being highly overweight by any medical standard, and not doing much about any health issues. Health issues don't care, is what I would say to those (except I'm too polite to pipe up in person). Diabetes doesn't care how much you love yourself.
My two cents.
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So let me tell you...I was a 500 lb man 10 years ago that couldn't walk half of a mile. Now I'm hovering around 330 lbs and have done 10k's, 5k's, and walk 20-30 miles a week, bike, paddleboard, etc, etc. But, I am still fat.
The problem in my opinion is that "fat acceptance" has gone from look, I'm a person that is 360 lbs, but working to be a better version of myself and that's ok...to...oh, I'm a person that is 480 lbs and can't walk up a flight of stairs without being out of breath and then I eat 4000 calories a day and that's ok. And the latter is not ok. I think our society has turned this into "fat shaming" but is it really shaming to say "look man, you can't walk up a flight of effing steps without being out of breath...1. that's not good...and 2. you shouldn't be ok with that." I don't think that's shaming, honestly that's wanting that person to have a better life. Granted it needs to be said in a decently nice way, but sometimes people need to hear those things (from loved ones of course, not strangers). I know I said those kinds of things to myself all of the time.
Now in my life, I do 10k's. I am happy how far I've come and want to keep moving forward. I want people to accept me for who I am, we all do...but at what cost for yourself? Fat shaming aside, it's embarrassing to be 500 lbs and eat a ton everyday. It's embarrassing to be out of breath walking up a flight of steps. It's embarrassing to go out with friends and not be able to fit into a booth. It's embarrassing to have to order clothing online because stores don't hold your size. I could list a hundred things more. It's embarrassing...In my opinion, it's not normal to struggle to walk a mile. Of course there are health reasons, or age, etc that may prevent that...but if you have no problems other than your weight and you struggle to walk a mile, then yes, perhaps you should be ashamed of yourself. I was. Struggling with something that basic is not a good thing. Do you want things to get harder, because they aren't going to get any easier the older you get. When I was 500 lbs, I asked myself all the time, "how did you let yourself get to this point?!?!" I still wonder that. But, the answer doesn't matter...all that matters is that you realize that it's time to change, and change can start today.
I'm sorry if I offend anyone with this post, and I'm sorry to myself that I need to be sorry for offending people (wait, what?!) haha, as I am not trying to shame anyone that struggles...I just wish the world would stop the whole "fat shaming vs. fat acceptance" conversation and look at basic things...if you can't walk a mile, if you can't walk up three flights of steps, if your blood work is jacked up, etc, etc.....these are signs, signs that regardless of acceptance, are telling you that there is a major problem with your body that needs to be remedied.
Again, I'm not trying to be harsh to anyone, just speaking from my own personal experience. When I stood on a scale when I was 24, I expected to see 390, maybe 400...I saw 497...and that was after I already started trying to lose weight. I broke down and I cried, I bawled like a baby...I thought my life was over, I thought I was dead. I was a *kitten* 24 year old that thought my life was over. No matter what people said to me, whether they shamed me, or accepted me, the only person that could help me, was me. I had to start moving more. I had to start eating better (and less). I had to be responsible for who I was, and not worry about if you accept me or not. Great, you accept me for being 600 lbs? Well, good luck to me when I try playing with my kids/grandkids when I'm a 600 lb man. I made the changes not for society, but for me. I want to walk the dog after work every evening, I want to play with my kids/grandkids/nephews/nieces and not sit idly by. I made the changes that I wanted in my life because I knew who I wanted to be and what I had to do to get there. I am well on my way.
Make the changes that you want in your life. Be who you want to be.
RE5peXt
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