Netflix- explained- why diets fail
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TavistockToad wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »I haven't seen the show - but is it even possible to get fat eating for hunger? I doubt it. I think we get fat eating for pleasure, or from habit. If we only ate for hunger it would be easy.
I'm hungry from running all the time. If i ate to hungry while training for a race I'd gain loads.
So you are hungry enough during the day that if you ate every time you were hungry, and never ate when you weren't hungry, you would overeat? And gain weight even with running a lot? Interesting.
Probably I am just projecting my own experience then. If I cut out my eating from habit and pleasure and ate only when and what I needed to satiate my hunger, I would easily stick to my plan. It is when I have no physical need for food but eat because I am bored, watching tv, or craving that is my problem with food. Like last night I had my dinner and really didn't need any more food for hunger - but had some chocolate anyway. It never occurred to me that people get obese because they are actually physically hungry for large amounts of food. I thought it was more a societal thing.2 -
gailjankovski wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »I haven't seen the show - but is it even possible to get fat eating for hunger? I doubt it. I think we get fat eating for pleasure, or from habit. If we only ate for hunger it would be easy.
I'm hungry from running all the time. If i ate to hungry while training for a race I'd gain loads.
So you are hungry enough during the day that if you ate every time you were hungry, and never ate when you weren't hungry, you would overeat? And gain weight even with running a lot? Interesting.
Probably I am just projecting my own experience then. If I cut out my eating from habit and pleasure and ate only when and what I needed to satiate my hunger, I would easily stick to my plan. It is when I have no physical need for food but eat because I am bored, watching tv, or craving that is my problem with food. Like last night I had my dinner and really didn't need any more food for hunger - but had some chocolate anyway. It never occurred to me that people get obese because they are actually physically hungry for large amounts of food. I thought it was more a societal thing.
I can't speak for Tavistock, but the day after a long run I could just eat and eat and eat. It's completely out of proportion to the number of calories I need and my body has never really experienced less hunger on days following episodes when I eat more than I need. It's one reason why calorie counting is the first method to really work for me sustainably -- my hunger simply isn't a reliable guide to how much I need to eat.
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gailjankovski wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »I haven't seen the show - but is it even possible to get fat eating for hunger? I doubt it. I think we get fat eating for pleasure, or from habit. If we only ate for hunger it would be easy.
I'm hungry from running all the time. If i ate to hungry while training for a race I'd gain loads.
So you are hungry enough during the day that if you ate every time you were hungry, and never ate when you weren't hungry, you would overeat? And gain weight even with running a lot? Interesting.
Probably I am just projecting my own experience then. If I cut out my eating from habit and pleasure and ate only when and what I needed to satiate my hunger, I would easily stick to my plan. It is when I have no physical need for food but eat because I am bored, watching tv, or craving that is my problem with food. Like last night I had my dinner and really didn't need any more food for hunger - but had some chocolate anyway. It never occurred to me that people get obese because they are actually physically hungry for large amounts of food. I thought it was more a societal thing.
Last year i gained 5lbs between may and september training for my second half marathon of the year and that was while i was tracking on mfp... and obviously eating more than i logged.
I am a healthy weight/quite small so runnng doesnt actually burn that many calories (400cals for 4.7 miles this evening) but i eat like I'm 6ft and 200lbs :laugh:
The runger is real!5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »I haven't seen the show - but is it even possible to get fat eating for hunger? I doubt it. I think we get fat eating for pleasure, or from habit. If we only ate for hunger it would be easy.
I'm hungry from running all the time. If i ate to hungry while training for a race I'd gain loads.
So you are hungry enough during the day that if you ate every time you were hungry, and never ate when you weren't hungry, you would overeat? And gain weight even with running a lot? Interesting.
Probably I am just projecting my own experience then. If I cut out my eating from habit and pleasure and ate only when and what I needed to satiate my hunger, I would easily stick to my plan. It is when I have no physical need for food but eat because I am bored, watching tv, or craving that is my problem with food. Like last night I had my dinner and really didn't need any more food for hunger - but had some chocolate anyway. It never occurred to me that people get obese because they are actually physically hungry for large amounts of food. I thought it was more a societal thing.
I can't speak for Tavistock, but the day after a long run I could just eat and eat and eat. It's completely out of proportion to the number of calories I need and my body has never really experienced less hunger on days following episodes when I eat more than I need. It's one reason why calorie counting is the first method to really work for me sustainably -- my hunger simply isn't a reliable guide to how much I need to eat.
The heaviest I've ever been has been during training for a half marathon. It's a crazy kind of hunger.
I don't know that "diets always fail" FWIW. I have never exceeded 10 lbs of my goal weight--my lifestyle seems to be applying different strategies to staying within a weight range. The actual diets "fail" if you define failure as gaining back some of what you lost after attempting one specific type of calorie restriction, but the approach of calorie limitation and almost daily workouts IS the lifestyle.3 -
psychod787 wrote: »Well.... why do you blame food companies? If you have a business that sells something and people keep buying it and you make money, wouldn't you keep making it? I once blamed food companies for making hyperpalitable foods and selling them dirt cheap. I no longer do that. It's MY choice to eat that or not. Not the companies choice. I think we westerners/ modern industrialized country's want to blame others for our problems. Especially us people under 50. Many of us were brought up not having to take responsibility for our actions. Well..... the bill is due.... pay it.... or don't. Our CHOICE.
I blame them because it's easier. You hit the nail on the head there for sure. It's a lot like taking the kids to the supermarket, you know that the checkout isles are lined with sweets and toys on purpose to let the kids throw fits so the parents will buy them. Same reason our local stores line the isles leading up to the checkout lanes with stuff like twinkies, cupcakes, huge bags and boxes of candy. You have no choice but to go past it to check out your food items. Took a long time for me to resist those temptations, but you're right, it's on us to walk past and not indulge. These days when I'm craving a candy bar I skip on over to the fitness isles and pick a decent protein bar.2 -
Lol, this thread is making me rethink my decision to get into running
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gailjankovski wrote: »I haven't seen the show - but is it even possible to get fat eating for hunger? I doubt it. I think we get fat eating for pleasure, or from habit. If we only ate for hunger it would be easy.
"Hunger" is a word, and words are slippery in the brain.
I think evolution wired us to eat freely when we can get food, and to conserve our energy for essential action. The modern, well-off world has plenty of ubiquitous, easy, tasty food - no matter our tastes; and, for most of us, little necessity for physical action.
I don't pretend to speak for you . . . but I have no idea when I'm actually hungry (and I do appreciate how ridiculously lucky I am - historically and globally).
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To me diet means "I am going to do "insert your diet here" to quickly lose the weight because I heard it works".
To me lifestyle means "I am going to change how much I eat, not eliminate anything or forbid myself from eating something, because I will gain weight". Health reasons aside.
How about me then? I went on a diet (verb) that didn't involve quick weight loss and didn't eliminate any foods.
Lost weight due to the modest calorie restriction, got to goal and switched to maintenance.
My lifestyle didn't change (same job, same family, same hobbies, same exercise etc..) - just the overall quantity of food reduced for a period of time.
Dieting is also a perfect description of what a lot of people who do cut/bulk cycles do to achieve their goals. They aren't changing their lifestyle, just eating less/eating more.
Yes some people need to change their lifestyle (including their diet) but it's far from universal.
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I don't pretend to speak for you . . . but I have no idea when I'm actually hungry (and I do appreciate how ridiculously lucky I am - historically and globally).
Agree 100%. There are times I'm positive I'm hungry - it's distracting me even when I'm busy, I'll have the shakes, etc...but if I wait, all of that gets better/goes away. Was I really hungry? Sure as heck felt like it! But reality is I wasn't going to pass out or lose all ability to function. A low-nutrition meal (think fast food), even when it has plenty of calories, can still leave me hungry as well - again, not hunger out of a need.
Nope, my hunger cues are WAY out of whack, and other than the rare "after dinner, watching TV munchies" very seldom can I determine if it's "real" hunger or not. Oh, and add in, that as soon as I'm in any noticeable calorie deficit, I am nearly ALWAYS hungry. I can maintain my (over) weight status, but losing means dealing with constant hungries. I've tried the other way, it did NOT work.
Best to stick to my eating plan!1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »I haven't seen the show - but is it even possible to get fat eating for hunger? I doubt it. I think we get fat eating for pleasure, or from habit. If we only ate for hunger it would be easy.
I'm hungry from running all the time. If i ate to hungry while training for a race I'd gain loads.
So you are hungry enough during the day that if you ate every time you were hungry, and never ate when you weren't hungry, you would overeat? And gain weight even with running a lot? Interesting.
Probably I am just projecting my own experience then. If I cut out my eating from habit and pleasure and ate only when and what I needed to satiate my hunger, I would easily stick to my plan. It is when I have no physical need for food but eat because I am bored, watching tv, or craving that is my problem with food. Like last night I had my dinner and really didn't need any more food for hunger - but had some chocolate anyway. It never occurred to me that people get obese because they are actually physically hungry for large amounts of food. I thought it was more a societal thing.
I can't speak for Tavistock, but the day after a long run I could just eat and eat and eat. It's completely out of proportion to the number of calories I need and my body has never really experienced less hunger on days following episodes when I eat more than I need. It's one reason why calorie counting is the first method to really work for me sustainably -- my hunger simply isn't a reliable guide to how much I need to eat.
There was a point in time when running suppressed my appetite. And then it didn't. Oh boy. Around that same time, it also started triggering migraines. This, of course, was when the volume/distance I did had increased. On the advice of my neurologist, I gave it up. I have to say one of the nicer things is not having to deal with the runger. I didn't always do well defeating it.0 -
gailjankovski wrote: »I haven't seen the show - but is it even possible to get fat eating for hunger? I doubt it. I think we get fat eating for pleasure, or from habit. If we only ate for hunger it would be easy.
"Hunger" is a word, and words are slippery in the brain.
I think evolution wired us to eat freely when we can get food, and to conserve our energy for essential action. The modern, well-off world has plenty of ubiquitous, easy, tasty food - no matter our tastes; and, for most of us, little necessity for physical action.
I don't pretend to speak for you . . . but I have no idea when I'm actually hungry (and I do appreciate how ridiculously lucky I am - historically and globally).
Yeah that is what I mean by eating for pleasure and habit rather than hunger, that our hunger cues have been over ridden by societal conditioning. Idk if that can be relearned though? I think that is what "intuitive eating" does; or what it aims to do anyway. But yeah - thus the rather modern privileged need for calorie counting and "dieting" I guess.1 -
I don't have working hunger cues, and it has nothing to do with privilege, unless the privilege was having the food to eat.
I had reasons related to early childhood trauma for emotionally eating and because that eating started in childhood, I overrode my body's natural hunger signals so long ago that they simply no longer function.
I channel that emotional need to respond with "something" into walking or having herbal tea now instead of eating food, but I will always need to monitor and plan my food intake. My appetite isn't a reliable indicator for me.4 -
Technically, it’s not the diet that fails. It’s that the dieter failed to maintain their weight loss. But I don’t watch TV, so what do I know?1
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I don't have working hunger cues, and it has nothing to do with privilege, unless the privilege was having the food to eat.
I had reasons related to early childhood trauma for emotionally eating and because that eating started in childhood, I overrode my body's natural hunger signals so long ago that they simply no longer function.
I channel that emotional need to respond with "something" into walking or having herbal tea now instead of eating food, but I will always need to monitor and plan my food intake. My appetite isn't a reliable indicator for me.
By privilege I meant living in a time and place where food is abundant enough that we have to actively moderate, rather than scrounging to get enough calories as our ancestors had to.
And yeah childhood trauma is a beast. I hear you on that.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »I haven't seen the show - but is it even possible to get fat eating for hunger? I doubt it. I think we get fat eating for pleasure, or from habit. If we only ate for hunger it would be easy.
I'm hungry from running all the time. If i ate to hungry while training for a race I'd gain loads.
So you are hungry enough during the day that if you ate every time you were hungry, and never ate when you weren't hungry, you would overeat? And gain weight even with running a lot? Interesting.
Probably I am just projecting my own experience then. If I cut out my eating from habit and pleasure and ate only when and what I needed to satiate my hunger, I would easily stick to my plan. It is when I have no physical need for food but eat because I am bored, watching tv, or craving that is my problem with food. Like last night I had my dinner and really didn't need any more food for hunger - but had some chocolate anyway. It never occurred to me that people get obese because they are actually physically hungry for large amounts of food. I thought it was more a societal thing.
I can't speak for Tavistock, but the day after a long run I could just eat and eat and eat. It's completely out of proportion to the number of calories I need and my body has never really experienced less hunger on days following episodes when I eat more than I need. It's one reason why calorie counting is the first method to really work for me sustainably -- my hunger simply isn't a reliable guide to how much I need to eat.
There was a point in time when running suppressed my appetite. And then it didn't. Oh boy. Around that same time, it also started triggering migraines. This, of course, was when the volume/distance I did had increased. On the advice of my neurologist, I gave it up. I have to say one of the nicer things is not having to deal with the runger. I didn't always do well defeating it.
I'm curious what your neurologist said about the migraines? Since I've been running I'm getting them a lot lately too.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »I haven't seen the show - but is it even possible to get fat eating for hunger? I doubt it. I think we get fat eating for pleasure, or from habit. If we only ate for hunger it would be easy.
I'm hungry from running all the time. If i ate to hungry while training for a race I'd gain loads.
So you are hungry enough during the day that if you ate every time you were hungry, and never ate when you weren't hungry, you would overeat? And gain weight even with running a lot? Interesting.
Probably I am just projecting my own experience then. If I cut out my eating from habit and pleasure and ate only when and what I needed to satiate my hunger, I would easily stick to my plan. It is when I have no physical need for food but eat because I am bored, watching tv, or craving that is my problem with food. Like last night I had my dinner and really didn't need any more food for hunger - but had some chocolate anyway. It never occurred to me that people get obese because they are actually physically hungry for large amounts of food. I thought it was more a societal thing.
I can't speak for Tavistock, but the day after a long run I could just eat and eat and eat. It's completely out of proportion to the number of calories I need and my body has never really experienced less hunger on days following episodes when I eat more than I need. It's one reason why calorie counting is the first method to really work for me sustainably -- my hunger simply isn't a reliable guide to how much I need to eat.
There was a point in time when running suppressed my appetite. And then it didn't. Oh boy. Around that same time, it also started triggering migraines. This, of course, was when the volume/distance I did had increased. On the advice of my neurologist, I gave it up. I have to say one of the nicer things is not having to deal with the runger. I didn't always do well defeating it.
I'm curious what your neurologist said about the migraines? Since I've been running I'm getting them a lot lately too.
I get them from anything more than light exercise. I had to stop anything more than light weight lifting too. They're exertion-induced migraines. I suffer from chronic migraines and have for years. I regularly see a neurologist to get botox for them and he also monitors a brain tumor I have. Anyway, as I got fitter and my exercise increased, the migraines started happening from it.
I was treated for migraine before I even started exercising or losing weight, so this was a new trigger.4 -
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I guess I don’t understand the word lifestyle? To me it encompasses how you live your whole life. Your diet is only a part of your lifestyle. To be successful for life at keeping weight off you have to not revert to habits of eating more calories than you are burning. A very real problem for many, maybe even most people.0
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Why do diets fail? I can give you a million reasons. Why do some people not rebound? That's a better question.0
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