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"Awards" Rant
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quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »Some people find these kinds of things motivating, I suppose. This "gamification" is a pretty standard thing in digital life nowadays. MFP gives you a digital high-five when you log in for a certain number of days straight. Heck, I'm almost kind of proud of some of my untappd "badges", including the "Extraordinary" badge for 1000 unique check-ins:
Regarding 9 AM: When I was in grad school I'd routinely stay up working until 2-3 AM and then sleep in well past 9. Of course, you can argue that a PhD student isn't a "normal functioning adult".
1169 as of today
Love Untappd!
do we need to start a MFP untapped club i'm laggin behind you guys - i just joined
Done!
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/128596-untappd-beer-lovers-of-mfp
I can't join. I hate beer :sad:
Same. Shall we go for margaritas, @pinuplove?
Sign me up! I just want to belong
You guys can launch Uncorkd.
Looks a bit too much like something else no guy would ever want to join.
Although....
This guy is in
Edit - I have no idea who this is. This was the #3 image result from my google search "ultimate beta male"
I was wondering. My education is lacking on current social figures, so I just figured it was somebody I should know but didn't.
Same here!
ETA now I wonder what the first two images were...0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »They are organizing a step challenge at work, Some of my group was going to do it so I took a look. It involves measuring steps with a tracker or phone app. Since I don't have a tracker, I looked at the recommended phone app.
When I looked at the app, this "challenge/award opportunity" came up. WTF, some app developer feels the need to "award" adult behavior (2nd or 3rd shift workers not included in this rant)?
For what it's worth, developers just write what the spec tells us to. There was a product manager, a designer, and a graphic artist involved in this decision.
If they'd had a Business Analyst, they'd have discovered the actual need the app could meet and developed towards that instead.
*Steps off soapbox
(Yes, I'm a business analyst lol)
Just to point out, there has been analysis that finds in a lot of spaces the "gamification" of these kinds of rewards does lead to higher user engagement #s. You can find examples in this very thread.0 -
sunfastrose wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »They are organizing a step challenge at work, Some of my group was going to do it so I took a look. It involves measuring steps with a tracker or phone app. Since I don't have a tracker, I looked at the recommended phone app.
When I looked at the app, this "challenge/award opportunity" came up. WTF, some app developer feels the need to "award" adult behavior (2nd or 3rd shift workers not included in this rant)?
For what it's worth, developers just write what the spec tells us to. There was a product manager, a designer, and a graphic artist involved in this decision.
If they'd had a Business Analyst, they'd have discovered the actual need the app could meet and developed towards that instead.
*Steps off soapbox
(Yes, I'm a business analyst lol)
Just to point out, there has been analysis that finds in a lot of spaces the "gamification" of these kinds of rewards does lead to higher user engagement #s. You can find examples in this very thread.
There's a reason why people in the tech industry limit themselves and their children to gamification exposure, especially around social media.
I'm disappointed that no one has used this in a positive way to influence behavior. When Microsoft began to realize the power behind their Xbox Achievement point system there was a speech about this on how societies could do this. I cannot remember the speaker or the event, but the point was astounding.
Join a carpool - 10 pts.
Maintain a healthy weight - 20 pts.
Exercise 30 mins - 10 pts.
Governments could use this as a carrot to influence behavior where a certain amount of points is rewarded with recognition, tax benefits, etc.
3 -
sunfastrose wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »They are organizing a step challenge at work, Some of my group was going to do it so I took a look. It involves measuring steps with a tracker or phone app. Since I don't have a tracker, I looked at the recommended phone app.
When I looked at the app, this "challenge/award opportunity" came up. WTF, some app developer feels the need to "award" adult behavior (2nd or 3rd shift workers not included in this rant)?
For what it's worth, developers just write what the spec tells us to. There was a product manager, a designer, and a graphic artist involved in this decision.
If they'd had a Business Analyst, they'd have discovered the actual need the app could meet and developed towards that instead.
*Steps off soapbox
(Yes, I'm a business analyst lol)
Just to point out, there has been analysis that finds in a lot of spaces the "gamification" of these kinds of rewards does lead to higher user engagement #s. You can find examples in this very thread.
Oh, I'm aware of that. But just a guess, for this particular app, it would likely be more useful for the user if the app was dynamic enough to be adjusted for their schedule. A generic wake up time of 9 am is likely not applicable to most.0 -
Oh gawd, I just signed up with my husband's health insurance app which I am REQUIRED to do or be charged extra, which is really irritating. Anyway, they have stuff like that. One of my "missions" is to work out for 2 minutes per day. That's not a typo - TWO. I don't do any of this stuff, you just have to sign up and turn in your biometric screening, the rest is optional for "rewards."0
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sunfastrose wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »They are organizing a step challenge at work, Some of my group was going to do it so I took a look. It involves measuring steps with a tracker or phone app. Since I don't have a tracker, I looked at the recommended phone app.
When I looked at the app, this "challenge/award opportunity" came up. WTF, some app developer feels the need to "award" adult behavior (2nd or 3rd shift workers not included in this rant)?
For what it's worth, developers just write what the spec tells us to. There was a product manager, a designer, and a graphic artist involved in this decision.
If they'd had a Business Analyst, they'd have discovered the actual need the app could meet and developed towards that instead.
*Steps off soapbox
(Yes, I'm a business analyst lol)
Just to point out, there has been analysis that finds in a lot of spaces the "gamification" of these kinds of rewards does lead to higher user engagement #s. You can find examples in this very thread.
There's a reason why people in the tech industry limit themselves and their children to gamification exposure, especially around social media.
I'm disappointed that no one has used this in a positive way to influence behavior. When Microsoft began to realize the power behind their Xbox Achievement point system there was a speech about this on how societies could do this. I cannot remember the speaker or the event, but the point was astounding.
Join a carpool - 10 pts.
Maintain a healthy weight - 20 pts.
Exercise 30 mins - 10 pts.
Governments could use this as a carrot to influence behavior where a certain amount of points is rewarded with recognition, tax benefits, etc.
Hey. Some of us Canadians can do this. There is an app called Carrot rewards that gives rewards (Air miles, Save on Food points etc.). It's only in some provinces and does not play well with Garmin so I don't use it. But if I carried my phone everywhere I went I could get a benefit, underwritten by the provincial government.
There is a thread around here somewhere on this.1 -
Since it seems optional to choose this challenge/reward in that app I wonder how many are doing it? I wonder why they selected 9 am?
I could see a dumb reward thing like that maybe helping someone who is a bit depressed or who struggles to maintain routines. Sometimes little things can help someone feel like they did one thing so maybe they can do more. I've seen advice encouraging depressed people to make their beds every day to help them. That is something many would not think was a big deal to do. Maybe this is similar. What is nothing for some adults is an accomplishment for others.
I wake up most days by 7 am without an alarm clock without a reason to be awake at any particular time of day. I've struggled with insomnia and have gotten 8 hours of sleep a few nights this week at last. I'd like the sleep tracker I am using to help me celebrate this minor accomplishment of sleeping all night with a dumb "reward" but it does nothing.
1 -
Since it seems optional to choose this challenge/reward in that app I wonder how many are doing it? I wonder why they selected 9 am?
I could see a dumb reward thing like that maybe helping someone who is a bit depressed or who struggles to maintain routines. Sometimes little things can help someone feel like they did one thing so maybe they can do more. I've seen advice encouraging depressed people to make their beds every day to help them. That is something many would not think was a big deal to do. Maybe this is similar. What is nothing for some adults is an accomplishment for others.
I wake up most days by 7 am without an alarm clock without a reason to be awake at any particular time of day. I've struggled with insomnia and have gotten 8 hours of sleep a few nights this week at last. I'd like the sleep tracker I am using to help me celebrate this minor accomplishment of sleeping all night with a dumb "reward" but it does nothing.
It's a hook. Something achievable by most people so the barrier to engagement is low, and once you're "caught" you're more likely to do more, and probably even enter a compulsion loop where you want more and more of that gratification, except tasks are now harder to achieve so you need to work harder. Having put effort into it, you're less likely to leave.6 -
sunfastrose wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »They are organizing a step challenge at work, Some of my group was going to do it so I took a look. It involves measuring steps with a tracker or phone app. Since I don't have a tracker, I looked at the recommended phone app.
When I looked at the app, this "challenge/award opportunity" came up. WTF, some app developer feels the need to "award" adult behavior (2nd or 3rd shift workers not included in this rant)?
For what it's worth, developers just write what the spec tells us to. There was a product manager, a designer, and a graphic artist involved in this decision.
If they'd had a Business Analyst, they'd have discovered the actual need the app could meet and developed towards that instead.
*Steps off soapbox
(Yes, I'm a business analyst lol)
Just to point out, there has been analysis that finds in a lot of spaces the "gamification" of these kinds of rewards does lead to higher user engagement #s. You can find examples in this very thread.
There's a reason why people in the tech industry limit themselves and their children to gamification exposure, especially around social media.
I'm disappointed that no one has used this in a positive way to influence behavior. When Microsoft began to realize the power behind their Xbox Achievement point system there was a speech about this on how societies could do this. I cannot remember the speaker or the event, but the point was astounding.
Join a carpool - 10 pts.
Maintain a healthy weight - 20 pts.
Exercise 30 mins - 10 pts.
Governments could use this as a carrot to influence behavior where a certain amount of points is rewarded with recognition, tax benefits, etc.
Government could just plant a chip in your *kitten* to monitor those things. Send results directly to the IRS.1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Since it seems optional to choose this challenge/reward in that app I wonder how many are doing it? I wonder why they selected 9 am?
I could see a dumb reward thing like that maybe helping someone who is a bit depressed or who struggles to maintain routines. Sometimes little things can help someone feel like they did one thing so maybe they can do more. I've seen advice encouraging depressed people to make their beds every day to help them. That is something many would not think was a big deal to do. Maybe this is similar. What is nothing for some adults is an accomplishment for others.
I wake up most days by 7 am without an alarm clock without a reason to be awake at any particular time of day. I've struggled with insomnia and have gotten 8 hours of sleep a few nights this week at last. I'd like the sleep tracker I am using to help me celebrate this minor accomplishment of sleeping all night with a dumb "reward" but it does nothing.
It's a hook. Something achievable by most people so the barrier to engagement is low, and once you're "caught" you're more likely to do more, and probably even enter a compulsion loop where you want more and more of that gratification, except tasks are now harder to achieve so you need to work harder. Having put effort into it, you're less likely to leave.
Or you're an outlier like me and decide it's an incredibly stupid waste and get turned off from the app.0 -
Garmin Connect added a "badges" feature a while ago. A lot of them are real easy to earn. Go for a gravel ride, a run, etc. Everybody has a key a few badges. Comment on a challenge, create a segment, etc, to get folks using that aspect of their system. I think they're doing it to compete against Fitbit on "social."0
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JustSomeEm wrote: »My first fitness tracker tried to give me awards for waking up on time. I turned that feature off pronto! I am not a product of the 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality, and a program rewarding me for doing what I've done on my own since I was 13 isn't motivating.
ETA also, 9am? Is that really some kind of achievement? I've been up for 3 hours chasing kids off my lawn by then :laugh:
Right?! #AdultingIsHard
I live next to a school. The struggle is real!
I am 42 and going back to school full-time, I'm surrounded by children (young enough to be my child = children), and live 1 block away from a middle school. Sometimes I truly understand the guy with the chainsaw vs college/high school kids in cheesy horror movies.3 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »I think digital "awards" are dumb. I don't care if a little trophy pops up on my phone because I finished today's C25k run.
That said, this app seems to me to be no different than a fitbit reminding someone to get up and walk every so often. A reminder/encouragement to get up and get going is fine, IMO.
But 9 AM? What normal functioning adult isn't up by 9 AM 5 days a week (shift workers excluded).
Retired functioning adults?
Yer one-a-them early-riser people who always asks me what I do when I stay up until 2AM, aren'tcha . . . "I dunno, same stuff you do at 6AM, I guess - laundry, house-cleaning, pay bills, do hobbies?"
Sadly, when you're retired, no one rewards you for anything anymore, not even paychecks. The gubbmint'd probably do it for medicare stuff, if enough of the boomers could handle the technology. Or maybe they do: I'm not old enough for medicare yet, so I wouldn't know how gamified it is.
I'm just here because someone mentioned beer.10 -
I could have used that app and that award when I was a child, and it was the holidays.1
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Packerjohn wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Since it seems optional to choose this challenge/reward in that app I wonder how many are doing it? I wonder why they selected 9 am?
I could see a dumb reward thing like that maybe helping someone who is a bit depressed or who struggles to maintain routines. Sometimes little things can help someone feel like they did one thing so maybe they can do more. I've seen advice encouraging depressed people to make their beds every day to help them. That is something many would not think was a big deal to do. Maybe this is similar. What is nothing for some adults is an accomplishment for others.
I wake up most days by 7 am without an alarm clock without a reason to be awake at any particular time of day. I've struggled with insomnia and have gotten 8 hours of sleep a few nights this week at last. I'd like the sleep tracker I am using to help me celebrate this minor accomplishment of sleeping all night with a dumb "reward" but it does nothing.
It's a hook. Something achievable by most people so the barrier to engagement is low, and once you're "caught" you're more likely to do more, and probably even enter a compulsion loop where you want more and more of that gratification, except tasks are now harder to achieve so you need to work harder. Having put effort into it, you're less likely to leave.
Or you're an outlier like me and decide it's an incredibly stupid waste and get turned off from the app.
That's why these kinds of apps advertise towards the majority but try to accommodate the outliers by presenting other choices of challenges. Judging by the number of people who joined, it's working.
Personally, I like badges because they are fun and I'm a "collector". I don't like challenges because unless I'm already doing or planning to do something, joining a challenge will make me do the opposite just because. I have a character flaw in that I value my autonomy above all else. I would join this challenge to collect the badge, though.3 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Since it seems optional to choose this challenge/reward in that app I wonder how many are doing it? I wonder why they selected 9 am?
I could see a dumb reward thing like that maybe helping someone who is a bit depressed or who struggles to maintain routines. Sometimes little things can help someone feel like they did one thing so maybe they can do more. I've seen advice encouraging depressed people to make their beds every day to help them. That is something many would not think was a big deal to do. Maybe this is similar. What is nothing for some adults is an accomplishment for others.
I wake up most days by 7 am without an alarm clock without a reason to be awake at any particular time of day. I've struggled with insomnia and have gotten 8 hours of sleep a few nights this week at last. I'd like the sleep tracker I am using to help me celebrate this minor accomplishment of sleeping all night with a dumb "reward" but it does nothing.
It's a hook. Something achievable by most people so the barrier to engagement is low, and once you're "caught" you're more likely to do more, and probably even enter a compulsion loop where you want more and more of that gratification, except tasks are now harder to achieve so you need to work harder. Having put effort into it, you're less likely to leave.
Or you're an outlier like me and decide it's an incredibly stupid waste and get turned off from the app.
That's why these kinds of apps advertise towards the majority but try to accommodate the outliers by presenting other choices of challenges. Judging by the number of people who joined, it's working.
Personally, I like badges because they are fun and I'm a "collector". I don't like challenges because unless I'm already doing or planning to do something, joining a challenge will make me do the opposite just because. I have a character flaw in that I value my autonomy above all else. I would join this challenge to collect the badge, though.
Just personally can't understand a "challenge" and "awards" for something with a level of difficulty just above breathing for a healthy individual.2 -
Packerjohn wrote: »sunfastrose wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »They are organizing a step challenge at work, Some of my group was going to do it so I took a look. It involves measuring steps with a tracker or phone app. Since I don't have a tracker, I looked at the recommended phone app.
When I looked at the app, this "challenge/award opportunity" came up. WTF, some app developer feels the need to "award" adult behavior (2nd or 3rd shift workers not included in this rant)?
For what it's worth, developers just write what the spec tells us to. There was a product manager, a designer, and a graphic artist involved in this decision.
If they'd had a Business Analyst, they'd have discovered the actual need the app could meet and developed towards that instead.
*Steps off soapbox
(Yes, I'm a business analyst lol)
Just to point out, there has been analysis that finds in a lot of spaces the "gamification" of these kinds of rewards does lead to higher user engagement #s. You can find examples in this very thread.
There's a reason why people in the tech industry limit themselves and their children to gamification exposure, especially around social media.
I'm disappointed that no one has used this in a positive way to influence behavior. When Microsoft began to realize the power behind their Xbox Achievement point system there was a speech about this on how societies could do this. I cannot remember the speaker or the event, but the point was astounding.
Join a carpool - 10 pts.
Maintain a healthy weight - 20 pts.
Exercise 30 mins - 10 pts.
Governments could use this as a carrot to influence behavior where a certain amount of points is rewarded with recognition, tax benefits, etc.
Government could just plant a chip in your *kitten* to monitor those things. Send results directly to the IRS.
I suspect Google, Facebook, Apple, etc. are already doing this...and we have essentially bent over.3 -
Packerjohn wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Since it seems optional to choose this challenge/reward in that app I wonder how many are doing it? I wonder why they selected 9 am?
I could see a dumb reward thing like that maybe helping someone who is a bit depressed or who struggles to maintain routines. Sometimes little things can help someone feel like they did one thing so maybe they can do more. I've seen advice encouraging depressed people to make their beds every day to help them. That is something many would not think was a big deal to do. Maybe this is similar. What is nothing for some adults is an accomplishment for others.
I wake up most days by 7 am without an alarm clock without a reason to be awake at any particular time of day. I've struggled with insomnia and have gotten 8 hours of sleep a few nights this week at last. I'd like the sleep tracker I am using to help me celebrate this minor accomplishment of sleeping all night with a dumb "reward" but it does nothing.
It's a hook. Something achievable by most people so the barrier to engagement is low, and once you're "caught" you're more likely to do more, and probably even enter a compulsion loop where you want more and more of that gratification, except tasks are now harder to achieve so you need to work harder. Having put effort into it, you're less likely to leave.
Or you're an outlier like me and decide it's an incredibly stupid waste and get turned off from the app.
That's why these kinds of apps advertise towards the majority but try to accommodate the outliers by presenting other choices of challenges. Judging by the number of people who joined, it's working.
Personally, I like badges because they are fun and I'm a "collector". I don't like challenges because unless I'm already doing or planning to do something, joining a challenge will make me do the opposite just because. I have a character flaw in that I value my autonomy above all else. I would join this challenge to collect the badge, though.
Just personally can't understand a "challenge" and "awards" for something with a level of difficulty just above breathing for a healthy individual.
Sometimes disproportionate awards for trivial things keep things engaging. Part of enforcing psychological tricks is knowing that different players would respond differently to different types of reinforcement. If you're interested in the subject, look for articles about reinforcement psychology in gaming. It's fascinating. Things that may not appeal to us or we may not understand are actually well thought out, not arbitrary design decisions because the game designer thought it would be cool.
An example of these tactics is MFP's streak. It has the three types of engagement reinforcement: reward motivation (acquiring the streak), social motivation (posting the streak), and loss aversion (losing the streak after having put effort into building it). Of course, not everyone will care for every aspect of the design. I don't even pay attention to my streak and I have posting disabled. Doesn't mean the streak is stupid or useless, it just means that this particular feature doesn't interest me.6 -
Packerjohn wrote: »sunfastrose wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »They are organizing a step challenge at work, Some of my group was going to do it so I took a look. It involves measuring steps with a tracker or phone app. Since I don't have a tracker, I looked at the recommended phone app.
When I looked at the app, this "challenge/award opportunity" came up. WTF, some app developer feels the need to "award" adult behavior (2nd or 3rd shift workers not included in this rant)?
For what it's worth, developers just write what the spec tells us to. There was a product manager, a designer, and a graphic artist involved in this decision.
If they'd had a Business Analyst, they'd have discovered the actual need the app could meet and developed towards that instead.
*Steps off soapbox
(Yes, I'm a business analyst lol)
Just to point out, there has been analysis that finds in a lot of spaces the "gamification" of these kinds of rewards does lead to higher user engagement #s. You can find examples in this very thread.
There's a reason why people in the tech industry limit themselves and their children to gamification exposure, especially around social media.
I'm disappointed that no one has used this in a positive way to influence behavior. When Microsoft began to realize the power behind their Xbox Achievement point system there was a speech about this on how societies could do this. I cannot remember the speaker or the event, but the point was astounding.
Join a carpool - 10 pts.
Maintain a healthy weight - 20 pts.
Exercise 30 mins - 10 pts.
Governments could use this as a carrot to influence behavior where a certain amount of points is rewarded with recognition, tax benefits, etc.
Government could just plant a chip in your *kitten* to monitor those things. Send results directly to the IRS.
I suspect Google, Facebook, Apple, etc. are already doing this...and we have essentially bent over.
And they forgot the lubricant.3 -
Packerjohn wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Since it seems optional to choose this challenge/reward in that app I wonder how many are doing it? I wonder why they selected 9 am?
I could see a dumb reward thing like that maybe helping someone who is a bit depressed or who struggles to maintain routines. Sometimes little things can help someone feel like they did one thing so maybe they can do more. I've seen advice encouraging depressed people to make their beds every day to help them. That is something many would not think was a big deal to do. Maybe this is similar. What is nothing for some adults is an accomplishment for others.
I wake up most days by 7 am without an alarm clock without a reason to be awake at any particular time of day. I've struggled with insomnia and have gotten 8 hours of sleep a few nights this week at last. I'd like the sleep tracker I am using to help me celebrate this minor accomplishment of sleeping all night with a dumb "reward" but it does nothing.
It's a hook. Something achievable by most people so the barrier to engagement is low, and once you're "caught" you're more likely to do more, and probably even enter a compulsion loop where you want more and more of that gratification, except tasks are now harder to achieve so you need to work harder. Having put effort into it, you're less likely to leave.
Or you're an outlier like me and decide it's an incredibly stupid waste and get turned off from the app.
That's why these kinds of apps advertise towards the majority but try to accommodate the outliers by presenting other choices of challenges. Judging by the number of people who joined, it's working.
Personally, I like badges because they are fun and I'm a "collector". I don't like challenges because unless I'm already doing or planning to do something, joining a challenge will make me do the opposite just because. I have a character flaw in that I value my autonomy above all else. I would join this challenge to collect the badge, though.
Just personally can't understand a "challenge" and "awards" for something with a level of difficulty just above breathing for a healthy individual.
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