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Keto Diet Debate
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Would it be fair to say...
I changed what I ate. That led to a change in overall calorie intake. That led to weight loss.
Everyone agrees that A happen. Everyone agrees that C happens. But some people are failing to mention/acknowledge that B is happening (intentionally or unintentionally), and that's the critical context here.
Actually, if I'm being thorough, it should be...
A -- I changed what I ate.
B -- That led to a change in overall calorie intake.
C -- That changed my overall calorie/energy balance.
D -- That led to weight loss.
C is the crucial part in all this.
Yep. A and B are the "hows"...
C is the "why"...1 -
I am still trying to figure out the relevance of your breathalyzer results. Too much alcohol might explain your crazy claims I suppose...
I'm fairly certain the breathalyzer mentioned by @GaleHawkins is a breathalyzer used to test ketones. There are many types available. Here's one:
https://www.ketonix.com/
@kpk54 I actually use an $15 alcohol breathalyzer from ebay/amazon.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1236978/breathalyzer-for-ketosis-check/p1
While the above MFP post on the subject is over 4 years old it is how Google introduced me to MFP back in 2014. Below is like the ones that I have purchased.
https://ebay.com/itm/Portable-Digital-LCD-Police-Breathalyzer-Breath-Test-Alcohol-Analyzer-Detector/192656021869
Actually the reason I went with this one is what the initial developer of the Ketonix unit had posted 4 years about. He said he was using the sensors like in these alcohol meters because they were cheap and would detect acetone in breath the same as alcohol. More expense ones filter out acetone detected so people in a state of Nutritional Ketosis would not be charged with DWI. These $15 meters reported work to some degree for alcohol but since I do not drink alcohol ever I have not tested them with alcohol.
The calories that are required to create a positive reading are free calories because we eat them but the energy from them can not turn into fat.
I prefer these $15 meters giving the same results as has been reported in other threads on the subject. The last time I checked the Ketonix is way more than $15.
From my machinist days I call these GO and NO GO gauges. They can give a false Negative but not a False Positive result from my four years of experience with them. These days as long as I am in Nutritional Ketosis is my main concern. My blood ketone tester gives good results but I do not like the pain and $$$ to use it.
fellrnr.com/wiki/Breath_Acetone_Meters
" Acetone is produced when your body is burning fat, and this can be measured in your breath. There are now a growing number of options for measuring your breath acetone. The devices vary wildly in price, and I've found some of the cheaper options can be quite effective. In all cases, how you breathe when taking a measurement is critical to getting a consistent and accurate reading. Overall, I found that measuring breath acetone to be far more convenient, and far more useful than measuring blood ketone levels. Measuring breath acetone is vastly cheaper than blood tests, and obviously less painful. This allowed me to check my ketone levels throughout the day, enabling me to find more detailed information about how my body reacts to food and exercise.
The Ketonix is an FDA approved device that is designed specifically as a breath acetone meter. This is the only device that will give you an acetone reading in Parts Per Million, but is expensive and I found it to be cumbersome to use and I've experienced more erroneous readings than with cheaper devices.
A cheap breathalyzer can be used as an improvised breath acetone meter. While these devices are intended to measure alcohol intoxication through breast measurement, the cheaper devices also detect acetone. This means you have to get a cheap, low quality breathalyzer, as the better devices will filter out any acetone. (I like the Greenwon AT6000, [1]).
There's another dedicated breath acetone meter called Ketometer. It's cheaper than the Ketonix, but more expensive than a cheap breathalyzer.
LEVL is a remarkably expensive device for measuring breath acetone, and it requires an ongoing subscription. At the time of writing, it's$699 + $49/month, which is too expensive for me to consider. One interesting note is that it comes with a calibration gas, something I've not seen with any other device. LEVL.
There is a single use breath acetone test launched by Metron, but it's unclear if this is still available options. The cost of around $3/test makes it even more expensive than blood BOHB testing, which is generally considered the gold standard. Metron. "10 -
never mind.2
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Would it be fair to say...
I changed what I ate. That led to a change in overall calorie intake. That led to weight loss.
In all the diets around people miss this mechanism and focus on the processes that make it happen. All the diets consist of reducing calories for weight loss. No real magic there. There are some small variations, but nothing statistically significantly better than a normal diet and reduced calories.
The best and most comprehenisive meta-analysis I found was this from last year. This covers all the various diet types, stregnths and weaknesses of each, as well as how thromogenics and other factors play a role in TDEE.
International society of sports nutrition position stand: diets and body composition
Basically the TLDR of this is, caloric deficit is key, but each person needs to find the process they will stick to consistently.
7 -
This guy seems to enjoy debating the Keto Diet.
https://masteringdiabetes.org/ketosis-ketogenic-diets-misleading/11 -
How is it that there is no long term studies on the keto WOE with a statistically significant population but this video can come with pages of negative FACTS. In the interest of full disclosure we should have been told the speakers qualifications and whom funded the video.8
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WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I have been on KETO for five weeks and have lost 16lbs so far. I do 35-40 Carbs a day as I do not want to rush the process and give up everything. Once you figure out what macros will put you in Ketosis, and ensure you are in a calorie deficityour on your way to losing weight.
Fixed it for you.
You really feel the need to edit the same persons post in two different threads and say "Fixed it for you"
If it helps clarify for that poster, and others reading along, what the true driver of the weight loss is (calories) so they avoid the delusion that they can’t gain weight if in ketosis... then yeah.
To be fair I didn’t notice it was the same poster, there are an awful lot of exited new keto followers these days on the boards...
*excited not exited fixed it for you 6 -
I quit the keto diet because I don't eat the same amount of calories every day. I have hungry days. And even though I lost overall, I gained 6 lbs TWICE and both times it took 3 weeks to come off again. Since I have stopped I can eat a whole pizza and still lose.
I was so strict most weeks out of fear of gaining 6 lbs again. I ate 1100-1300 calories and under 15 net carbs everyday and barely lost anything after the first few weeks. Which is weird because I have lost 5 lbs the last few weeks on a break from dieting. I don't know why keto doesn't work for me. Wish I knew. It is good for resetting sugar addiction for me though. I have had less cravings for a couple months now.
I don't miss all my dishes being greasy either lol. I went through so much dish soap.
I am not against keto, if it works for someone it's hard to argue with the results. If someone stays healthy and likes the way they are eating then you would be a jerk to argue with them about that.. But it doesn't work for everyone. I know how to be very strict and I got heartbreaking results.3 -
Erinloveable wrote: »I quit the keto diet because I don't eat the same amount of calories every day. I have hungry days. And even though I lost overall, I gained 6 lbs TWICE and both times it took 3 weeks to come off again. Since I have stopped I can eat a whole pizza and still lose.
I was so strict most weeks out of fear of gaining 6 lbs again. I ate 1100-1300 calories and under 15 net carbs everyday and barely lost anything after the first few weeks. Which is weird because I have lost 5 lbs the last few weeks on a break from dieting. I don't know why keto doesn't work for me. Wish I knew. It is good for resetting sugar addiction for me though. I have had less cravings for a couple months now.
I don't miss all my dishes being greasy either lol. I went through so much dish soap.
I am not against keto, if it works for someone it's hard to argue with the results. If someone stays healthy and likes the way they are eating then you would be a jerk to argue with them about that.. But it doesn't work for everyone. I know how to be very strict and I got heartbreaking results.
If you were eating at a deficit, you were most likely losing fat whether the scale showed it or not. But it sounds like you are doing just fine without keto, or on large macro swings. Perhaps cycling your macros works well for you?1 -
How is it that there is no long term studies on the keto WOE with a statistically significant population but this video can come with pages of negative FACTS. In the interest of full disclosure we should have been told the speakers qualifications and whom funded the video.
Probably the most significant study I've seen was done by Hall, et al: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27385608
n=17, metabolic chambers and doubly labeled water utilized, diet standardized/measured. Excellent analysis/review of the study here: https://shreddedbyscience.com/ketogenic-diets-actually-work-study-review/
And then there's Johnston, et al: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16685046/
n=20, intake and exercise controlled.5 -
How is it that there is no long term studies on the keto WOE with a statistically significant population but this video can come with pages of negative FACTS. In the interest of full disclosure we should have been told the speakers qualifications and whom funded the video.
Probably the most significant study I've seen was done by Hall, et al: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27385608
n=17, metabolic chambers and doubly labeled water utilized, diet standardized/measured. Excellent analysis/review of the study here: https://shreddedbyscience.com/ketogenic-diets-actually-work-study-review/
And then there's Johnston, et al: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16685046/
n=20, intake and exercise controlled.
I really liked the Johnston study. I would have also liked to see two groups and have both eat (one keto , one carb) go at it for the full eight weeks. I am not sure if starting one way and immediately going to the other effects the results so I would find that interesting. Anyway thanks for posting it was a good read.2
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