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Keto diet = good or bad
Replies
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GaleHawkins wrote: »Interesting. Most people I know do understand the profound health benefits losing weight in and of itself can have and is why they do it.
Yet you seem to claim that your health improved first and then you lost weight...
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GaleHawkins wrote: »Interesting. Most people I know do understand the profound health benefits losing weight in and of itself can have and is why they do it.
Yet you seem to claim that your health improved first and then you lost weight...
For those with health issues that have symptoms bothered by high carb foods, elevated BG and elevated insulin, improvements in health often occur prior to any meaningful weight loss, and any additional benefits that weight loss may bring.
For example, t2ds can often start improving BG and insulin needs within days. For issues with inflammatory arthritis, how dietary changes affect the joints and their inflammation and pain may be quite different than how less weight on those joints helps with symptoms. Ymmv7 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Interesting. Most people I know do understand the profound health benefits losing weight in and of itself can have and is why they do it.
Yet you seem to claim that your health improved first and then you lost weight...
For those with health issues that have symptoms bothered by high carb foods, elevated BG and elevated insulin, improvements in health often occur prior to any meaningful weight loss, and any additional benefits that weight loss may bring.
For example, t2ds can often start improving BG and insulin needs within days. For issues with inflammatory arthritis, how dietary changes affect the joints and their inflammation and pain may be quite different than how less weight on those joints helps with symptoms. Ymmv
Agreed. If there is IR involved, than reducing carbs will provide the fastest path of control.4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Interesting. Most people I know do understand the profound health benefits losing weight in and of itself can have and is why they do it.
Yet you seem to claim that your health improved first and then you lost weight...
For those with health issues that have symptoms bothered by high carb foods, elevated BG and elevated insulin, improvements in health often occur prior to any meaningful weight loss, and any additional benefits that weight loss may bring.
For example, t2ds can often start improving BG and insulin needs within days. For issues with inflammatory arthritis, how dietary changes affect the joints and their inflammation and pain may be quite different than how less weight on those joints helps with symptoms. Ymmv
I can see that. Thank you for the insight...
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I’m about to go Keto to try to kick my habit of binging on bread. I want to continue to be vegetarian, but I’m worried about eating too much cheese and too many eggs. I’m also worried about lacking fibre.
Is there anything I can do to make the transition easier and make sure I don’t gain weight from all the cheese my meal plan currently seems to contain? What are the best vegetarian Keto protein sources?
Thanks guys
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svlofthouse wrote: »I’m about to go Keto to try to kick my habit of binging on bread. I want to continue to be vegetarian, but I’m worried about eating too much cheese and too many eggs. I’m also worried about lacking fibre.
Is there anything I can do to make the transition easier and make sure I don’t gain weight from all the cheese my meal plan currently seems to contain? What are the best vegetarian Keto protein sources?
Thanks guys
To avoid gaining weight, don't eat more calories than you're using. Since fatty foods are so calorie-dense, it can be easy for some people to overdo it when they're eating a higher fat diet.
There are some vegetarian keto threads in others areas of the site, it may be worth doing a search to see what has worked for other people.0 -
Thank you, I’ll have a look at those threads. I’ve looked at some recipes and they’re all ridiculously high calorie - how can I ever create a deficit?1
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svlofthouse wrote: »Thank you, I’ll have a look at those threads. I’ve looked at some recipes and they’re all ridiculously high calorie - how can I ever create a deficit?
It comes down to if fat will satiate you. That was my issue with keto. Very little food volume and fat didn't satiate me.4 -
svlofthouse wrote: »Thank you, I’ll have a look at those threads. I’ve looked at some recipes and they’re all ridiculously high calorie - how can I ever create a deficit?
Just like psuLemon said -- if you're the type of person who finds fat satiating, keto can be a good choice because you'll be satisfied on smaller portions. If you aren't, it's more difficult to be successful.2 -
svlofthouse wrote: »I’m about to go Keto to try to kick my habit of binging on bread. I want to continue to be vegetarian, but I’m worried about eating too much cheese and too many eggs. I’m also worried about lacking fibre.
Is there anything I can do to make the transition easier and make sure I don’t gain weight from all the cheese my meal plan currently seems to contain? What are the best vegetarian Keto protein sources?
Thanks guys
Do you eat other dairy and eggs? What about tofu, tempeh, and things like Beyond Meat products?
You could low carb and possibly get the benefits some people experience of having cravings diminish without going keto. Low carb macros don't necessarily call for very high fat, and there's room for more non-starchy vegetables to fill you up.
I lower carbed as a vegetarian when I first started dieting because it's just how my food choices settled out when I met my protein and vegetable consumption goals while hitting a very low calorie goal at the time due to being sedentary and older. Foods like yogurt and cottage cheese provided a lot of protein without a lot of fat.4 -
This is excellent advice. I eat lower carb with lots of protein, fruits, veggies and fiber and not much refined carbs (some but not a lot). Over time I've learned I can control cravings and maintain high satiety within my calorie goals eating this way.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »svlofthouse wrote: »I’m about to go Keto to try to kick my habit of binging on bread. I want to continue to be vegetarian, but I’m worried about eating too much cheese and too many eggs. I’m also worried about lacking fibre.
Is there anything I can do to make the transition easier and make sure I don’t gain weight from all the cheese my meal plan currently seems to contain? What are the best vegetarian Keto protein sources?
Thanks guys
Do you eat other dairy and eggs? What about tofu, tempeh, and things like Beyond Meat products?
You could low carb and possibly get the benefits some people experience of having cravings diminish without going keto. Low carb macros don't necessarily call for very high fat, and there's room for more non-starchy vegetables to fill you up.
I lower carbed as a vegetarian when I first started dieting because it's just how my food choices settled out when I met my protein and vegetable consumption goals while hitting a very low calorie goal at the time due to being sedentary and older. Foods like yogurt and cottage cheese provided a lot of protein without a lot of fat.1 -
svlofthouse wrote: »Thank you, I’ll have a look at those threads. I’ve looked at some recipes and they’re all ridiculously high calorie - how can I ever create a deficit?
Take a look at the Low Carber Daily in the MFP groups. They have a great" launch pad" stickie with a lot of links to helpful vegan and vegetarian LCHF and Keto sites.
To get a deficit, if your meals are high fat with low volume, you may need to weigh foods for a while to get a feel for portion size. Keto foods may have less volume than you are used to.... Just think smaller portions.
For example, my kids can easily eat an entire pizza each. If I make fathead pizza, where the crust is cheese, eggs and coconut and flax meal (or almond meal) they only have a couple of slices instead of the entire thing.2 -
Thank you all so much, that’s all really useful advice. @GottaBurnEmAll, yes I do eat things like tofu normally, but the Keto recipe website I’m useing doesn’t seem to use ingredients like that. Do they fit into the Keto diet?0
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svlofthouse wrote: »Thank you all so much, that’s all really useful advice. @GottaBurnEmAll, yes I do eat things like tofu normally, but the Keto recipe website I’m useing doesn’t seem to use ingredients like that. Do they fit into the Keto diet?
Tofu might not necessarily fit into keto because it does have some carbs and you still want to eat veggies!, If you join the low carb group as suggested, you'll get some suggestions for low carbing.
You can cut your NET carbs down to around say, 100 grams a day, eliminate starchy veggies, sugars, grains, and most fruits except berries, and still likely experience relief from your cravings.2 -
Thanks guys!1
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I stick to most of it due to cancer. I still get in my mileage and 15 to 20 hrs of exercise a week. Only exception I make time to time is eating fruit. Each person ahs to decide what is best for the. Get as much knowledge as you can.3
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svlofthouse wrote: »Thanks guys!
Good luck! I just wanted to point out because I wasn't clear that the reason I think LCHF is a better option for vegetarians than keto is because low carb vegetarian protein sources have carbs that eat into that small carb allowance in keto macros, and that crowds out vegetables.
I think it's probably better for vegetarians to not crowd out vegetables So, by going LCHF instead of full keto, you can eat the lower carb sources of vegetarian protein like tofu, black soy beans, eggs, yogurt, and cottage cheese and still have room for plenty of vegetables.
Also, don't neglect vegetable sources of protein. Off the top of my head, I know that broccoli is a star in that regard.2 -
Good for me. Not good for everyone. It's the same for any diet. Not everything is going to fit everyone the same way.
I would never be able to go vegan or even vegetarian, but that way of eating works for many people.
It's bad if you're finding that YOU can't stick with it.
It's good if you CAN stick with it.5 -
I have only just started eating the keto way. I have hashimoto , it's early days for me sugar is no issue for me or breads ect but gosh I love rice ,root veggies and fruit
I have found it difficult to go to cream instead of skim milk oil ect pretty much the opposite of what I have eaten in the past so far no big shift in weight. I have definitely felt different ,sluggish I hope this passes quickly I have been surprised how many carbs are in different foods and sugars it's certainly made me look at the nutrients in food instead of just counting calories like I said early days it will be interesting to see how I feel in a months time. 1 -
gypsytravelle45 wrote: »I have only just started eating the keto way. I have hashimoto , it's early days for me sugar is no issue for me or breads ect but gosh I love rice ,root veggies and fruit I have found it difficult to go to cream instead of skim milk oil ect pretty much the opposite of what I have eaten in the past so far no big shift in weight. I have definitely felt different ,sluggish I hope this passes quickly I have been surprised how many carbs are in different foods and sugars it's certainly made me look at the nutrients in food instead of just counting calories like I said early days it will be interesting to see how I feel in a months time.
I didn't feel great the first week or two but I would say I was okay. I felt great after that with one exception, my workout energy was about zero. I had to walk during my runs and doubted that I would get over it. It was between two and three months that I felt complete during my runs. So it may take a little longer than you think.1 -
gypsytravelle45 wrote: »I have only just started eating the keto way. I have hashimoto , it's early days for me sugar is no issue for me or breads ect but gosh I love rice ,root veggies and fruit I have found it difficult to go to cream instead of skim milk oil ect pretty much the opposite of what I have eaten in the past so far no big shift in weight. I have definitely felt different ,sluggish I hope this passes quickly I have been surprised how many carbs are in different foods and sugars it's certainly made me look at the nutrients in food instead of just counting calories like I said early days it will be interesting to see how I feel in a months time.
If you feel sluggish when first starting keto, it could be caused by an electrolyte imbalance. This is commonly referred to as "keto flu".
Try either using a commercial electrolyte packet (sugar free) in water, or just adding a half teaspoon or so of salt to a glass of water and chugging it down.4 -
It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.22
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It doesn't sound healthy to me at all and it is not recommended by most experts for either weight loss or overall health.
The whole "carbs are bad" thing has gotten way out of control. It's not that any food group is bad, it's the amount you eat and overall lifestyle. People think "carbs make you fat" because they don't realize how calorie-dense they are. Most people would be surprised if you measured out a "serving size" of pasta based on what it says on the box. That doesn't mean these foods are unhealthy though, it just means you have to measure them out.
I think people overcomplicate the causes of obesity. If you look at the diet that people ate in pioneer times, it was similar to the "Standard American Diet" today, yet only rich people were fat. There are a few reasons why. Average people did a large amount of physical labor in every part of life, from doing the laundry to grocery shopping. Even getting somewhere on a horse and buggy required physical exertion. Also, a lot more labor was required to obtain food. If you wanted a pie you either had to bake it yourself (possibly with flour that you milled yourself from crops you grew) or walk to town and buy one. There was no mindless snacking. Every food that was eaten required effort to obtain. I think people hugely underestimate the association between "car culture" and obesity. I don't drive so I have sort of an external perspective of how addicted people are to their cars.
Most importantly, there were still many times of famine up until the 1950s. It has only been in the past several decades that famine has been more or less eliminated from modern countries. But the human body is still adapted to have times of feast and famine, and to stock up on resources whenever they are available. That is why we have the drive to eat more than we actually need. Not enough time has passed for the human body to adapt to always being surrounded by more than enough cheap and easily obtainable food. People in poorer countries have eaten high-carb diets for centuries (rice, anyone?) and obesity rates don't rise until food becomes cheap and easily obtainable, at which point they skyrocket.
This also explains why the majority of pet dogs and cats in America are also overweight, even though they eat a low-carb, meat-based diet. It's not the specific food, it's the amount of food coupled with lack of exercise.
So what can we do with this information? Obviously we don't want to go back to having famines or having to do all the laundry by hand. But once we understand why the human body is predisposed to gain weight, we can understand how to solve the problem. We don't have to get sucked into these fad diets that have no basis in reality.
For me the two big takeaways are: a) make your life more inconvenient. This sounds weird because America is obsessed with convenience, but sometimes a moderate amount of inconvenience is a good thing. Buy foods that take time and effort to prepare. Get a rolling cart and walk to the grocery store instead of driving, if possible (unfortunately a lot of neighborhoods in America are only accessible by car...and we wonder why people are overweight). Do not, under any circumstances, order food to be delivered to you or use a drive-through. Limit eating out to social occasions.
And b) as always, weight loss is a simple math equation. Tracking calories is the only diet that works and every other diet is just a variation on that dressed up in some BS. Of course you're going to eat less if you cut out an entire major food group because it limits choice. How much steak and avocados can one person possibly eat in a day? (It also helps that the foods eaten on a low-carb diet are, on average, more expensive than the foods eaten on a Standard American Diet, which again goes back to the whole convenience thing).12 -
gatherum89 wrote: »It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.
? Could you please post links to wherever you're getting this stuff from? None of this is true, unless there are studies out there that I haven't heard of - and with all the keto threads we see every day, if there were studies like this published, you can bet they'd be linked into every keto thread on the boards.7 -
gatherum89 wrote: »It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.
? Could you please post links to wherever you're getting this stuff from? None of this is true, unless there are studies out there that I haven't heard of - and with all the keto threads we see every day, if there were studies like this published, you can bet they'd be linked into every keto thread on the boards.
Of course there is I’m not talking out of my *kitten* here and my knowledge doesn’t come out of a vacuum. I’ve looked at both sides of the fence and have picked the most competent well reasoned logical side to base my health off of, Keto is a fad and a unsustainable one at that. It’s a repackaged Akins diet and we all know how it ended for dr Akins.....I can assure you people aren’t dying of heart disease from eating to many fruits veggies and starches, and not enough red meat and lumps of butter in their coffee.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426/
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.0000103664.47406.49
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2125600/
http://www.jlr.org/content/34/12/2183.full.pdf
Edit for some more
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554528/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/
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gatherum89 wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.
? Could you please post links to wherever you're getting this stuff from? None of this is true, unless there are studies out there that I haven't heard of - and with all the keto threads we see every day, if there were studies like this published, you can bet they'd be linked into every keto thread on the boards.
Of course there is I’m not talking out of my *kitten* here and my knowledge doesn’t come out of a vacuum. I’ve looked at both sides of the fence and have picked the most competent well reasoned logical side to base my health off of, Keto is a fad and a unsustainable one at that. It’s a repackaged Akins diet and we all know how it ended for dr Akins.....I can assure you people aren’t dying of heart disease from eating to many fruits veggies and starches, and not enough red meat and lumps of butter in their coffee.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426/
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.0000103664.47406.49
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2125600/
http://www.jlr.org/content/34/12/2183.full.pdf
Edit for some more
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554528/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/
Blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma? https://www.verywellfit.com/how-did-atkins-die-224165710 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.
? Could you please post links to wherever you're getting this stuff from? None of this is true, unless there are studies out there that I haven't heard of - and with all the keto threads we see every day, if there were studies like this published, you can bet they'd be linked into every keto thread on the boards.
Of course there is I’m not talking out of my *kitten* here and my knowledge doesn’t come out of a vacuum. I’ve looked at both sides of the fence and have picked the most competent well reasoned logical side to base my health off of, Keto is a fad and a unsustainable one at that. It’s a repackaged Akins diet and we all know how it ended for dr Akins.....I can assure you people aren’t dying of heart disease from eating to many fruits veggies and starches, and not enough red meat and lumps of butter in their coffee.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426/
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.0000103664.47406.49
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2125600/
http://www.jlr.org/content/34/12/2183.full.pdf
Edit for some more
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554528/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/
Blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma? https://www.verywellfit.com/how-did-atkins-die-2241657
A medical examiner's report on the death of diet guru Dr. Robert Atkins suggests that he had a history of heart attack, congestive heart failure and hypertension.
The document, a report of external examination from the chief medical examiner's office in New York, also says that at his death Dr. Atkins weighed 258 pounds. Dr. Atkins died in April last year at age 72 of a head injury from a fall on ice while walking to work.0 -
In 2000, Dr. Atkins developed cardiomyopathy, an incurable heart condition which has a number of different causes. It is thought that his cardiomyopathy was due to a viral illness. His physician stated at the time that there was no evidence that his diet contributed to the condition. His coronary arteries were reported to have been checked at that time and found to be free of blockages.Was Atkins Overweight?
William Leith, a writer who interviewed Dr. Atkins around the time of his cardiac arrest, stated that "he looks to be just under 6 feet tall and around 200 lbs – not skinny, not thin, but definitely not fat." A report from the doctor's company, Atkins Nutritionals, stated that he was six feet tall, played tennis competitively, and that his weight was frequently checked, and in the years before his death, it remained below 195.
A medical report at the time of his admission to the hospital, which was later made public by his widow, states that he was 195 pounds on admission to the hospital. This would give him a body mass index (BMI) of 26, which is just over the range considered to be "normal weight." At most, he was very slightly overweight.
Atkins' Death
On April 8, 2003, at age 72, Dr. Atkins slipped on the ice while walking to work. In the fall, he hit his head and this caused bleeding around his brain. He lost consciousness on the way to the hospital, where he spent two weeks in intensive care. His body deteriorated rapidly and he suffered massive organ failure.
During this time, his body apparently retained an enormous amount of fluid. His weight at death was recorded at 258 pounds (again, records say that he was 195 upon entering the hospital).14 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »In 2000, Dr. Atkins developed cardiomyopathy, an incurable heart condition which has a number of different causes. It is thought that his cardiomyopathy was due to a viral illness. His physician stated at the time that there was no evidence that his diet contributed to the condition. His coronary arteries were reported to have been checked at that time and found to be free of blockages.Was Atkins Overweight?
William Leith, a writer who interviewed Dr. Atkins around the time of his cardiac arrest, stated that "he looks to be just under 6 feet tall and around 200 lbs – not skinny, not thin, but definitely not fat." A report from the doctor's company, Atkins Nutritionals, stated that he was six feet tall, played tennis competitively, and that his weight was frequently checked, and in the years before his death, it remained below 195.
A medical report at the time of his admission to the hospital, which was later made public by his widow, states that he was 195 pounds on admission to the hospital. This would give him a body mass index (BMI) of 26, which is just over the range considered to be "normal weight." At most, he was very slightly overweight.
Atkins' Death
On April 8, 2003, at age 72, Dr. Atkins slipped on the ice while walking to work. In the fall, he hit his head and this caused bleeding around his brain. He lost consciousness on the way to the hospital, where he spent two weeks in intensive care. His body deteriorated rapidly and he suffered massive organ failure.
During this time, his body apparently retained an enormous amount of fluid. His weight at death was recorded at 258 pounds (again, records say that he was 195 upon entering the hospital).
I guess the world will never know then huh. Because each group is pushing for their own agendas and are going to want to believe what they want to believe. I can link right back and show You a group of people explaining why those explanations are bs potentially and how filling up with over 60 pounds of fluid that fast is a bit unbelievable and sounds like some dmg control. But that’s really not important to this topic, it’s safe to say Akins was not a pillar of health and the links ive provided are good evidence for why the Akins/keto diet is not such a good idea.
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Which would mean that we DON'T "all know how it ended for him".7
This discussion has been closed.
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