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Keto diet = good or bad
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gypsytravelle45 wrote: »I have only just started eating the keto way. I have hashimoto , it's early days for me sugar is no issue for me or breads ect but gosh I love rice ,root veggies and fruit
I have found it difficult to go to cream instead of skim milk oil ect pretty much the opposite of what I have eaten in the past so far no big shift in weight. I have definitely felt different ,sluggish I hope this passes quickly I have been surprised how many carbs are in different foods and sugars it's certainly made me look at the nutrients in food instead of just counting calories like I said early days it will be interesting to see how I feel in a months time.
If you feel sluggish when first starting keto, it could be caused by an electrolyte imbalance. This is commonly referred to as "keto flu".
Try either using a commercial electrolyte packet (sugar free) in water, or just adding a half teaspoon or so of salt to a glass of water and chugging it down.4 -
It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.22
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It doesn't sound healthy to me at all and it is not recommended by most experts for either weight loss or overall health.
The whole "carbs are bad" thing has gotten way out of control. It's not that any food group is bad, it's the amount you eat and overall lifestyle. People think "carbs make you fat" because they don't realize how calorie-dense they are. Most people would be surprised if you measured out a "serving size" of pasta based on what it says on the box. That doesn't mean these foods are unhealthy though, it just means you have to measure them out.
I think people overcomplicate the causes of obesity. If you look at the diet that people ate in pioneer times, it was similar to the "Standard American Diet" today, yet only rich people were fat. There are a few reasons why. Average people did a large amount of physical labor in every part of life, from doing the laundry to grocery shopping. Even getting somewhere on a horse and buggy required physical exertion. Also, a lot more labor was required to obtain food. If you wanted a pie you either had to bake it yourself (possibly with flour that you milled yourself from crops you grew) or walk to town and buy one. There was no mindless snacking. Every food that was eaten required effort to obtain. I think people hugely underestimate the association between "car culture" and obesity. I don't drive so I have sort of an external perspective of how addicted people are to their cars.
Most importantly, there were still many times of famine up until the 1950s. It has only been in the past several decades that famine has been more or less eliminated from modern countries. But the human body is still adapted to have times of feast and famine, and to stock up on resources whenever they are available. That is why we have the drive to eat more than we actually need. Not enough time has passed for the human body to adapt to always being surrounded by more than enough cheap and easily obtainable food. People in poorer countries have eaten high-carb diets for centuries (rice, anyone?) and obesity rates don't rise until food becomes cheap and easily obtainable, at which point they skyrocket.
This also explains why the majority of pet dogs and cats in America are also overweight, even though they eat a low-carb, meat-based diet. It's not the specific food, it's the amount of food coupled with lack of exercise.
So what can we do with this information? Obviously we don't want to go back to having famines or having to do all the laundry by hand. But once we understand why the human body is predisposed to gain weight, we can understand how to solve the problem. We don't have to get sucked into these fad diets that have no basis in reality.
For me the two big takeaways are: a) make your life more inconvenient. This sounds weird because America is obsessed with convenience, but sometimes a moderate amount of inconvenience is a good thing. Buy foods that take time and effort to prepare. Get a rolling cart and walk to the grocery store instead of driving, if possible (unfortunately a lot of neighborhoods in America are only accessible by car...and we wonder why people are overweight). Do not, under any circumstances, order food to be delivered to you or use a drive-through. Limit eating out to social occasions.
And b) as always, weight loss is a simple math equation. Tracking calories is the only diet that works and every other diet is just a variation on that dressed up in some BS. Of course you're going to eat less if you cut out an entire major food group because it limits choice. How much steak and avocados can one person possibly eat in a day? (It also helps that the foods eaten on a low-carb diet are, on average, more expensive than the foods eaten on a Standard American Diet, which again goes back to the whole convenience thing).12 -
gatherum89 wrote: »It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.
? Could you please post links to wherever you're getting this stuff from? None of this is true, unless there are studies out there that I haven't heard of - and with all the keto threads we see every day, if there were studies like this published, you can bet they'd be linked into every keto thread on the boards.7 -
gatherum89 wrote: »It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.
? Could you please post links to wherever you're getting this stuff from? None of this is true, unless there are studies out there that I haven't heard of - and with all the keto threads we see every day, if there were studies like this published, you can bet they'd be linked into every keto thread on the boards.
Of course there is I’m not talking out of my *kitten* here and my knowledge doesn’t come out of a vacuum. I’ve looked at both sides of the fence and have picked the most competent well reasoned logical side to base my health off of, Keto is a fad and a unsustainable one at that. It’s a repackaged Akins diet and we all know how it ended for dr Akins.....I can assure you people aren’t dying of heart disease from eating to many fruits veggies and starches, and not enough red meat and lumps of butter in their coffee.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426/
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.0000103664.47406.49
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2125600/
http://www.jlr.org/content/34/12/2183.full.pdf
Edit for some more
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554528/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/
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gatherum89 wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.
? Could you please post links to wherever you're getting this stuff from? None of this is true, unless there are studies out there that I haven't heard of - and with all the keto threads we see every day, if there were studies like this published, you can bet they'd be linked into every keto thread on the boards.
Of course there is I’m not talking out of my *kitten* here and my knowledge doesn’t come out of a vacuum. I’ve looked at both sides of the fence and have picked the most competent well reasoned logical side to base my health off of, Keto is a fad and a unsustainable one at that. It’s a repackaged Akins diet and we all know how it ended for dr Akins.....I can assure you people aren’t dying of heart disease from eating to many fruits veggies and starches, and not enough red meat and lumps of butter in their coffee.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426/
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.0000103664.47406.49
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2125600/
http://www.jlr.org/content/34/12/2183.full.pdf
Edit for some more
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554528/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/
Blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma? https://www.verywellfit.com/how-did-atkins-die-224165710 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.
? Could you please post links to wherever you're getting this stuff from? None of this is true, unless there are studies out there that I haven't heard of - and with all the keto threads we see every day, if there were studies like this published, you can bet they'd be linked into every keto thread on the boards.
Of course there is I’m not talking out of my *kitten* here and my knowledge doesn’t come out of a vacuum. I’ve looked at both sides of the fence and have picked the most competent well reasoned logical side to base my health off of, Keto is a fad and a unsustainable one at that. It’s a repackaged Akins diet and we all know how it ended for dr Akins.....I can assure you people aren’t dying of heart disease from eating to many fruits veggies and starches, and not enough red meat and lumps of butter in their coffee.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426/
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.0000103664.47406.49
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2125600/
http://www.jlr.org/content/34/12/2183.full.pdf
Edit for some more
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554528/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/
Blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma? https://www.verywellfit.com/how-did-atkins-die-2241657
A medical examiner's report on the death of diet guru Dr. Robert Atkins suggests that he had a history of heart attack, congestive heart failure and hypertension.
The document, a report of external examination from the chief medical examiner's office in New York, also says that at his death Dr. Atkins weighed 258 pounds. Dr. Atkins died in April last year at age 72 of a head injury from a fall on ice while walking to work.0 -
In 2000, Dr. Atkins developed cardiomyopathy, an incurable heart condition which has a number of different causes. It is thought that his cardiomyopathy was due to a viral illness. His physician stated at the time that there was no evidence that his diet contributed to the condition. His coronary arteries were reported to have been checked at that time and found to be free of blockages.Was Atkins Overweight?
William Leith, a writer who interviewed Dr. Atkins around the time of his cardiac arrest, stated that "he looks to be just under 6 feet tall and around 200 lbs – not skinny, not thin, but definitely not fat." A report from the doctor's company, Atkins Nutritionals, stated that he was six feet tall, played tennis competitively, and that his weight was frequently checked, and in the years before his death, it remained below 195.
A medical report at the time of his admission to the hospital, which was later made public by his widow, states that he was 195 pounds on admission to the hospital. This would give him a body mass index (BMI) of 26, which is just over the range considered to be "normal weight." At most, he was very slightly overweight.
Atkins' Death
On April 8, 2003, at age 72, Dr. Atkins slipped on the ice while walking to work. In the fall, he hit his head and this caused bleeding around his brain. He lost consciousness on the way to the hospital, where he spent two weeks in intensive care. His body deteriorated rapidly and he suffered massive organ failure.
During this time, his body apparently retained an enormous amount of fluid. His weight at death was recorded at 258 pounds (again, records say that he was 195 upon entering the hospital).14 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »In 2000, Dr. Atkins developed cardiomyopathy, an incurable heart condition which has a number of different causes. It is thought that his cardiomyopathy was due to a viral illness. His physician stated at the time that there was no evidence that his diet contributed to the condition. His coronary arteries were reported to have been checked at that time and found to be free of blockages.Was Atkins Overweight?
William Leith, a writer who interviewed Dr. Atkins around the time of his cardiac arrest, stated that "he looks to be just under 6 feet tall and around 200 lbs – not skinny, not thin, but definitely not fat." A report from the doctor's company, Atkins Nutritionals, stated that he was six feet tall, played tennis competitively, and that his weight was frequently checked, and in the years before his death, it remained below 195.
A medical report at the time of his admission to the hospital, which was later made public by his widow, states that he was 195 pounds on admission to the hospital. This would give him a body mass index (BMI) of 26, which is just over the range considered to be "normal weight." At most, he was very slightly overweight.
Atkins' Death
On April 8, 2003, at age 72, Dr. Atkins slipped on the ice while walking to work. In the fall, he hit his head and this caused bleeding around his brain. He lost consciousness on the way to the hospital, where he spent two weeks in intensive care. His body deteriorated rapidly and he suffered massive organ failure.
During this time, his body apparently retained an enormous amount of fluid. His weight at death was recorded at 258 pounds (again, records say that he was 195 upon entering the hospital).
I guess the world will never know then huh. Because each group is pushing for their own agendas and are going to want to believe what they want to believe. I can link right back and show You a group of people explaining why those explanations are bs potentially and how filling up with over 60 pounds of fluid that fast is a bit unbelievable and sounds like some dmg control. But that’s really not important to this topic, it’s safe to say Akins was not a pillar of health and the links ive provided are good evidence for why the Akins/keto diet is not such a good idea.
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Which would mean that we DON'T "all know how it ended for him".7
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estherdragonbat wrote: »Which would mean that we DON'T "all know how it ended for him".
Yep I guess you’re right then we don’t ALL know how it ended for him..... anyways the keto diet is not safe for long term health, and I know it has a big following right now and I get it. But I genuinely would not recommend it to anyone I cared about and loved in my life that’s for sure.
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gatherum89 wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Which would mean that we DON'T "all know how it ended for him".
Yep I guess you’re right then we don’t ALL know how it ended for him..... anyways the keto diet is not safe for long term health, and I know it has a big following right now and I get it. But I genuinely would not recommend it to anyone I cared about and loved in my life that’s for sure.
I think the key thing for people who are overweight is losing (and being active), and keto can be a helpful option for some.
Keto can also be done quite healthfully. (Most diets can be done healthfully or not.)10 -
gatherum89 wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »In 2000, Dr. Atkins developed cardiomyopathy, an incurable heart condition which has a number of different causes. It is thought that his cardiomyopathy was due to a viral illness. His physician stated at the time that there was no evidence that his diet contributed to the condition. His coronary arteries were reported to have been checked at that time and found to be free of blockages.Was Atkins Overweight?
William Leith, a writer who interviewed Dr. Atkins around the time of his cardiac arrest, stated that "he looks to be just under 6 feet tall and around 200 lbs – not skinny, not thin, but definitely not fat." A report from the doctor's company, Atkins Nutritionals, stated that he was six feet tall, played tennis competitively, and that his weight was frequently checked, and in the years before his death, it remained below 195.
A medical report at the time of his admission to the hospital, which was later made public by his widow, states that he was 195 pounds on admission to the hospital. This would give him a body mass index (BMI) of 26, which is just over the range considered to be "normal weight." At most, he was very slightly overweight.
Atkins' Death
On April 8, 2003, at age 72, Dr. Atkins slipped on the ice while walking to work. In the fall, he hit his head and this caused bleeding around his brain. He lost consciousness on the way to the hospital, where he spent two weeks in intensive care. His body deteriorated rapidly and he suffered massive organ failure.
During this time, his body apparently retained an enormous amount of fluid. His weight at death was recorded at 258 pounds (again, records say that he was 195 upon entering the hospital).
I guess the world will never know then huh. Because each group is pushing for their own agendas and are going to want to believe what they want to believe. I can link right back and show You a group of people explaining why those explanations are bs potentially and how filling up with over 60 pounds of fluid that fast is a bit unbelievable and sounds like some dmg control. But that’s really not important to this topic, it’s safe to say Akins was not a pillar of health and the links ive provided are good evidence for why the Akins/keto diet is not such a good idea.
Do you have sufficient experience with people experiencing end of life issues in intensive care to conclude that 60 pounds of fluid retention is "unbelievable" for someone experiencing organ failure?
I'm not super experienced either, but in my limited experience with family members this doesn't strike me as outlandish. I have had two family members die of multiple organ failure. One thing that didn't occur to me prior to these experiences is that when your organs are failing, they don't always do a great job of maintaining balance within your body. Combine that with medical interventions to try to keep people hydrated, it's not unusual for people at the end of their lives to retain amounts of fluid that would be extreme for people who aren't in a serious medical situation.
Nobody is a pillar of health after they slip on the ice and spend two weeks in intensive care. I don't care what you're eating prior to the fall -- you're in intensive care because you're in trouble and you need . . . well, intensive care.16 -
svlofthouse wrote: »Thank you, I’ll have a look at those threads. I’ve looked at some recipes and they’re all ridiculously high calorie - how can I ever create a deficit?
Simple - take a smaller portion.
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gatherum89 wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.
? Could you please post links to wherever you're getting this stuff from? None of this is true, unless there are studies out there that I haven't heard of - and with all the keto threads we see every day, if there were studies like this published, you can bet they'd be linked into every keto thread on the boards.
Of course there is I’m not talking out of my *kitten* here and my knowledge doesn’t come out of a vacuum. I’ve looked at both sides of the fence and have picked the most competent well reasoned logical side to base my health off of, Keto is a fad and a unsustainable one at that. It’s a repackaged Akins diet and we all know how it ended for dr Akins.....I can assure you people aren’t dying of heart disease from eating to many fruits veggies and starches, and not enough red meat and lumps of butter in their coffee.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426/
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.0000103664.47406.49
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2125600/
http://www.jlr.org/content/34/12/2183.full.pdf
Edit for some more
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554528/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/
To the bolded sentence - where do those numbers come from?
1, 2, 5, 6, 7 Abstracts and articles relating to studies that show high LDL levels are related to heart issues - yes this is well established
3 Conclusion:: Replacing a percentage of dietary sat fats with carbs and avoiding dietary cholesterol can reduce blood cholesterol and LDL levels.
This is a non-issue for people who have cholesterol and LDL levels in the normal range.
4 Conclusion: For both high-fat and low-fat diets "The net favorable effect of weight loss seems to be greater than that of dietary fat modification in optimizing the serum lipid profde of obese subjects"
Again a non-issue for people who have cholesterol and LDL levels in the normal range, and potentially of benefit for people who need to reduce weight for health reasons and find this way of eating sustainable.
Nobody is arguing that a keto/lchf diet is right for everyone, it's right for those who have no medical conditions that would make it a bad choice and find this way of eating works for them.6 -
gatherum89 wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.
? Could you please post links to wherever you're getting this stuff from? None of this is true, unless there are studies out there that I haven't heard of - and with all the keto threads we see every day, if there were studies like this published, you can bet they'd be linked into every keto thread on the boards.
Of course there is I’m not talking out of my *kitten* here and my knowledge doesn’t come out of a vacuum. I’ve looked at both sides of the fence and have picked the most competent well reasoned logical side to base my health off of, Keto is a fad and a unsustainable one at that. It’s a repackaged Akins diet and we all know how it ended for dr Akins.....I can assure you people aren’t dying of heart disease from eating to many fruits veggies and starches, and not enough red meat and lumps of butter in their coffee.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426/
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.0000103664.47406.49
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2125600/
http://www.jlr.org/content/34/12/2183.full.pdf
Edit for some more
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554528/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/
To the bolded sentence - where do those numbers come from?
1, 2, 5, 6, 7 Abstracts and articles relating to studies that show high LDL levels are related to heart issues - yes this is well established
3 Conclusion:: Replacing a percentage of dietary sat fats with carbs and avoiding dietary cholesterol can reduce blood cholesterol and LDL levels.
This is a non-issue for people who have cholesterol and LDL levels in the normal range.
4 Conclusion: For both high-fat and low-fat diets "The net favorable effect of weight loss seems to be greater than that of dietary fat modification in optimizing the serum lipid profde of obese subjects"
Again a non-issue for people who have cholesterol and LDL levels in the normal range, and potentially of benefit for people who need to reduce weight for health reasons and find this way of eating sustainable.
Nobody is arguing that a keto/lchf diet is right for everyone, it's right for those who have no medical conditions that would make it a bad choice and find this way of eating works for them.
Thank you for taking one for the team. I started reading a few of the links and found they didn't support anything and noped out of reading the rest of them.8 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »gatherum89 wrote: »It’s legit pretty bad for you besides the fact you’re making ur body use ketones as fuel instead of its preferred fuel source being carbs. You’re also consuming way to many saturated fats and trans fats causal in raising your ldl cholesterol numbers and increasing ur risk for heart disease, our number one killer in this country, an example of healthy fats would be monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Also all the cholesterol from the animal meat and secretions aren’t very healthy either and won’t be doing you any favors for long term health. You’ll never see someone who eats this diet with an over all cholesterol score lower then 170 that’s for sure yikes, or ever be close to reaching the perfect overall cholesterol score of 140 and lower where it is impossible for heart disease to occur.
? Could you please post links to wherever you're getting this stuff from? None of this is true, unless there are studies out there that I haven't heard of - and with all the keto threads we see every day, if there were studies like this published, you can bet they'd be linked into every keto thread on the boards.
Of course there is I’m not talking out of my *kitten* here and my knowledge doesn’t come out of a vacuum. I’ve looked at both sides of the fence and have picked the most competent well reasoned logical side to base my health off of, Keto is a fad and a unsustainable one at that. It’s a repackaged Akins diet and we all know how it ended for dr Akins.....I can assure you people aren’t dying of heart disease from eating to many fruits veggies and starches, and not enough red meat and lumps of butter in their coffee.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426/
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.0000103664.47406.49
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2125600/
http://www.jlr.org/content/34/12/2183.full.pdf
Edit for some more
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554528/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/
To the bolded sentence - where do those numbers come from?
1, 2, 5, 6, 7 Abstracts and articles relating to studies that show high LDL levels are related to heart issues - yes this is well established
3 Conclusion:: Replacing a percentage of dietary sat fats with carbs and avoiding dietary cholesterol can reduce blood cholesterol and LDL levels.
This is a non-issue for people who have cholesterol and LDL levels in the normal range.
4 Conclusion: For both high-fat and low-fat diets "The net favorable effect of weight loss seems to be greater than that of dietary fat modification in optimizing the serum lipid profde of obese subjects"
Again a non-issue for people who have cholesterol and LDL levels in the normal range, and potentially of benefit for people who need to reduce weight for health reasons and find this way of eating sustainable.
Nobody is arguing that a keto/lchf diet is right for everyone, it's right for those who have no medical conditions that would make it a bad choice and find this way of eating works for them.
Thank you for taking one for the team. I started reading a few of the links and found they didn't support anything and noped out of reading the rest of them.
Yeah, I kind of felt obligated since I'm the one who called for them
Plus it's good practice interpreting sources - a skill I'm working on developing. 10 -
gatherum89 wrote: »If someone is eating a keto diet which always consist of high saturated fat, trans fat and cholesterol intake, even more then dare I say the standard American diet....
This is one of the things I am disputing. There's no requirement that someone's keto diet be higher in sat fat than their previous diet (or that it be especially high in sat fat, although I would agree that most who do keto aren't concerned about sat fat). There's certainly no need for it to be high in artificial trans fat (which is what we know is bad for you and should be entirely avoided). As for dietary cholesterol, I don't think that's even an issue.
You could easily go keto eating precisely the same amount of animal products as you did before, or fewer (or better quality/less processed meats or high fat beef), lots more vegetables (in that veg have fewer net carbs than many other foods that would be cut out), and nuts and seeds to add to the fat. Only a minority of people seem to have cholesterol levels that swing based on sat fat also (my dad is one, and keeps it low as a result), whereas weight loss often helps with cholesterol numbers.
Walter Willett (obviously no keto guru) argues that switching highly refined carbs for vegetable sources of fat is generally a positive (and the reverse a negative).
I think keto basically cuts out some foods (including various good non animal sources of protein) that are quite healthful, so I wouldn't do it longterm, but I am not someone who finds it the only way to control my appetite or feel content and satiated on a calorie-appropriate way of eating, I don't find it much easier or less stressful than other options. If someone does, and has no negative medical effects such as bad test results, it is likely healthier for that person.7 -
I’ve been strict keto for about five months. My labs are all still good. I’ve lost 43 lbs so far. I enjoy it quite a lot. Thus far no negative effects whatsoever.🤷🏻♀️7
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Hey folks - a minor clean-up occurred in here. Food for thought: It is absolutely fine to debate ideas. When you feel the need to resort to insulting another user, you've basically lost the debate.
Also - reading through (hey @lemurcat2 - credit being given), I was super impressed with the mostly cool heads that prevailed in this discussion. If I could give kudos, I'd give them to the folks in this discussion who kept their heads and didn't let the branch of discussion I just cleaned turn into the dumpster fire it could have.
Happy freaking Friday,
Em17
This discussion has been closed.
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