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What commonly given MFP Forum advice do you personally disagree with?
Replies
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Tacklewasher wrote: »Back on the original topic, a piece of commonly given advice I tend to disagree with is the dispensation of SS and/or SL5x5 as the bestest strength training program for everybody all the time.
Do you think they are good programs for those starting out? Because that's how I usually see it suggested.
I think they are but so are many others. There may be reasons to do other things that have a different focus.0 -
I was told that a "bro" split was worse than doing a full body routine by several users(I think calling it a bro split is already condescending). It seemed like the concencus was do a full body routine everything else will work worse. My 4 day split worked much, much better than when i switched to a full body routine. Only time i have regretted listening to other MFP users.0
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tbright1965 wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »A calorie is a calorie is a calorie... Bull that's perpetually spouted but in my many years of experience totally false.
...yet it's still a scientifically proven fact. Assuming that you're speaking strictly in terms of weight loss, that is.
In that case why do I loose much more/faster on macro with lower carbs comparing to the same amount of kcal with higher carbs?
But WHAT are you losing?
For every gram of glycogen you use, you use 3-4 grams of water. So sure, if I go on a ketogenic diet, I can lose big weight.
Doesn't mean I'm losing fat. If 75% of what I've lost is water, that doesn't really help.
I'm not saying one cannot lose on a keto diet. The question is always, WHAT are you losing?
I've actually never done keto. In the past, when I kept my carbs in 25% - 35% range, I've lost close to 15kg in 3 months. The second time around, keeping carbs at 35% - 45%, I've lost 3 kg in 3 monhts. And the second time I had more weight to loose to begin with, so in theory it should have been easier. It couldn't have been all water weight the first time.
I'm not saying this it the case for everyone, all I'm saying is that different things will work for different people, and it's not always as simple as kcal in and kcal out20 -
_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »A calorie is a calorie is a calorie... Bull that's perpetually spouted but in my many years of experience totally false.
...yet it's still a scientifically proven fact. Assuming that you're speaking strictly in terms of weight loss, that is.
In that case why do I loose much more/faster on macro with lower carbs comparing to the same amount of kcal with higher carbs?
But WHAT are you losing?
For every gram of glycogen you use, you use 3-4 grams of water. So sure, if I go on a ketogenic diet, I can lose big weight.
Doesn't mean I'm losing fat. If 75% of what I've lost is water, that doesn't really help.
I'm not saying one cannot lose on a keto diet. The question is always, WHAT are you losing?
I've actually never done keto. In the past, when I kept my carbs in 25% - 35% range, I've lost close to 15kg in 3 months. The second time around, keeping carbs at 35% - 45%, I've lost 3 kg in 3 monhts. And the second time I had more weight to loose to begin with, so in theory it should have been easier. It couldn't have been all water weight the first time.
I'm not saying this it the case for everyone, all I'm saying is that different things will work for different people, and it's not always as simple as kcal in and kcal out
It might not have been all water weight the first time but there is a good chance it was enough to give you inflated numbers. To lose that much fat you would have had to maintain a fairly aggressive deficit.
There are many reasons why water weight might have masked your efforts the second time as well. 3 months is not always enough time to determine your true rate of loss.
My carbs average into the 30-35 percent range and in the 10 months of losing my loss has very closely matched my deficit so yes, it is all about calories in and out.
One of the worst things you can do while trying to lose weight is make decisions without enough data. This is how myths and inaccurate ideas persist. This is what you have done.
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@NovusDies thanks for a constructive answer, much more helpful than all the ''woos''11
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DawnOfTheDead_Lift wrote: »modusoperandi1412 wrote: »DawnOfTheDead_Lift wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Back on the original topic, a piece of commonly given advice I tend to disagree with is the dispensation of SS and/or SL5x5 as the bestest strength training program for everybody all the time.
Do you think they are good programs for those starting out? Because that's how I usually see it suggested.
Personally, No. Unless your goals are strength / athletically oriented.
"I want to build a nice chest with big arms!"
"Go squat three times a week."
You should still do your legs if you want a big chest and arms unless you want that Johnny Bravo look.
And hey, you do 1.5 times bench press per week on those programs. I've seen some progress photos of someone who followed SS to the word and it looked pretty balanced and good despite the 3 times per week squatting.
I'm not saying it's bad and I'm not saying you shouldn't do legs. I more think its overrated for the general population.
A common thread I've seen is wanting to bring up lagging body parts in the upper body.
And I suppose the program just annoys me from all of the GOMAD nonsense and the fact that the program rose to prominence in the online fitness community during the whole "systemic hypertrophy" craze and "squats cause crazy releases of HGH and will build muscle all around". Most of that has been tossed out but the routine has remained as some sort of pillar.
I find Rippertoe rather insufferable so maybe I'm biased. The form and technique is top notch though.
I actually agree... if your goal is aesthetics/hypertrophy those programs are suboptimal. Reminded me of this meme.
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Tacklewasher wrote: »Back on the original topic, a piece of commonly given advice I tend to disagree with is the dispensation of SS and/or SL5x5 as the bestest strength training program for everybody all the time.
Do you think they are good programs for those starting out? Because that's how I usually see it suggested.
Maybe. Sometimes. It depends upon their goals, limitations and desires.
I think there are a lot of solid, well-written programs for those starting out. I'm not saying that SS/SL5x5 aren't good programs, I just don't always agree with the blanket recommendation for them.
Not arguing one program is better than another, but as a person who started on SL 5X5, I find it's very simple and I believe that simple is important for someone starting out. With the free app to make it even easier, I can't see a reason not to recommend SL 5X5 to a beginner.
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I disagree that you have to weigh yourself every day or you won't understand fluctuations or see your real progress. Some people are pretty fired up about getting tons of data.
You can weigh yourself daily if you want that information but you don't really have to monitor that much to ensure you are losing weight if you are tracking calories reasonably accurately.
I'm in you camp....feel it is nothing but compulsive unnecessary data.2 -
I don't agree with the simple assumption that "calories in vs. calories out" is directly related to gaining or losing weight. The direct and only metabolic mechanism for fat build-up is excess blood glucose and insulin as a result of excess carbs. Only by depleting blood glucose and therefore depleting insulin your body will start burning fat.
Yes, this can be achieved by (a lot of) cardiovascular excercise, but also and much easier by drastic reduction of carb intake. About half of the population is insulin resistant to some extent. This means that less glucose (energy) is transported to muscles and more to fat cells. Simply reducing calories will result in less energy, less excercise, and no significant weight loss. Medical scientists like Paul Mason, Stephen Phinney and Tim Noakes have treated obese patients with a low carb (ketogenic) diet with impressive results. Check YouTube.
I started keto for my mental health after watching a video of Jordan Peterson on his carnivore diet. His sleep, mood, and focus improved dramatically. As did mine. I used to sleep nine hours and couldn't wake up. Now I sleep six to seven hours and wake up rested and energetic. A life changer. As with Peterson, I lost weight and gained muscularity without a lot of excercise. For the first time in my life I'm starting to see my abs. A nice side effect.60 -
Nope.I don't agree with the simple assumption that "calories in vs. calories out" is directly related to gaining or losing weight. The direct and only metabolic mechanism for fat build-up is excess blood glucose and insulin as a result of excess carbs. Only by depleting blood glucose and therefore depleting insulin your body will start burning fat.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2686143
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DawnOfTheDead_Lift wrote: »modusoperandi1412 wrote: »DawnOfTheDead_Lift wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Back on the original topic, a piece of commonly given advice I tend to disagree with is the dispensation of SS and/or SL5x5 as the bestest strength training program for everybody all the time.
Do you think they are good programs for those starting out? Because that's how I usually see it suggested.
Personally, No. Unless your goals are strength / athletically oriented.
"I want to build a nice chest with big arms!"
"Go squat three times a week."
You should still do your legs if you want a big chest and arms unless you want that Johnny Bravo look.
And hey, you do 1.5 times bench press per week on those programs. I've seen some progress photos of someone who followed SS to the word and it looked pretty balanced and good despite the 3 times per week squatting.
I'm not saying it's bad and I'm not saying you shouldn't do legs. I more think its overrated for the general population.
A common thread I've seen is wanting to bring up lagging body parts in the upper body.
And I suppose the program just annoys me from all of the GOMAD nonsense and the fact that the program rose to prominence in the online fitness community during the whole "systemic hypertrophy" craze and "squats cause crazy releases of HGH and will build muscle all around". Most of that has been tossed out but the routine has remained as some sort of pillar.
I find Rippertoe rather insufferable so maybe I'm biased. The form and technique is top notch though.
Changed my mind.0 -
I don't agree with the simple assumption that "calories in vs. calories out" is directly related to gaining or losing weight. The direct and only metabolic mechanism for fat build-up is excess blood glucose and insulin as a result of excess carbs. Only by depleting blood glucose and therefore depleting insulin your body will start burning fat.
Yes, this can be achieved by (a lot of) cardiovascular excercise, but also and much easier by drastic reduction of carb intake. About half of the population is insulin resistant to some extent. This means that less glucose (energy) is transported to muscles and more to fat cells. Simply reducing calories will result in less energy, less excercise, and no significant weight loss. Medical scientists like Paul Mason, Stephen Phinney and Tim Noakes have treated obese patients with a low carb (ketogenic) diet with impressive results. Check YouTube.
I started keto for my mental health after watching a video of Jordan Peterson on his carnivore diet. His sleep, mood, and focus improved dramatically. As did mine. I used to sleep nine hours and couldn't wake up. Now I sleep six to seven hours and wake up rested and energetic. A life changer. As with Peterson, I lost weight and gained muscularity without a lot of excercise. For the first time in my life I'm starting to see my abs. A nice side effect.
Wow. That's a whole lot of woo in three paragraphs.
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I don't agree with the simple assumption that "calories in vs. calories out" is directly related to gaining or losing weight. The direct and only metabolic mechanism for fat build-up is excess blood glucose and insulin as a result of excess carbs. Only by depleting blood glucose and therefore depleting insulin your body will start burning fat.
Yes, this can be achieved by (a lot of) cardiovascular excercise, but also and much easier by drastic reduction of carb intake. About half of the population is insulin resistant to some extent. This means that less glucose (energy) is transported to muscles and more to fat cells. Simply reducing calories will result in less energy, less excercise, and no significant weight loss. Medical scientists like Paul Mason, Stephen Phinney and Tim Noakes have treated obese patients with a low carb (ketogenic) diet with impressive results. Check YouTube.
I started keto for my mental health after watching a video of Jordan Peterson on his carnivore diet. His sleep, mood, and focus improved dramatically. As did mine. I used to sleep nine hours and couldn't wake up. Now I sleep six to seven hours and wake up rested and energetic. A life changer. As with Peterson, I lost weight and gained muscularity without a lot of excercise. For the first time in my life I'm starting to see my abs. A nice side effect.
In a way, it's almost charming that we have people now who are so far removed from any real life experience or observation of what happens when people undergo calorie restriction through literal lack of food. Throughout much of human history (and still in some parts of the world today), people are all too familiar with the very real effects of calorie restriction.
But no, Peterson says something else on a youtube video, so it must be that calories aren't real.31 -
That drinking (standard US commercial) ACV will rot your teeth, or burn your esophagus, assuming you're of normal health to start.
Good for teeth? No. But in the standardized-to-3%-acidity form, let alone further diluted, it's in the same acidity range as lots of other common foods/beverages, just super tart/harsh because it's not smoothed out with sweetener.
Still won't help with weight loss, though . . . unless via placebo effect.
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quiksylver296 wrote: »
Wow. That's a whole lot of woo in three paragraphs.
It's amazing. An absolute stunner of a first post.18 -
I don't agree with the simple assumption that "calories in vs. calories out" is directly related to gaining or losing weight. The direct and only metabolic mechanism for fat build-up is excess blood glucose and insulin as a result of excess carbs. Only by depleting blood glucose and therefore depleting insulin your body will start burning fat.
Yes, this can be achieved by (a lot of) cardiovascular excercise, but also and much easier by drastic reduction of carb intake. About half of the population is insulin resistant to some extent. This means that less glucose (energy) is transported to muscles and more to fat cells. Simply reducing calories will result in less energy, less excercise, and no significant weight loss. Medical scientists like Paul Mason, Stephen Phinney and Tim Noakes have treated obese patients with a low carb (ketogenic) diet with impressive results. Check YouTube.
I started keto for my mental health after watching a video of Jordan Peterson on his carnivore diet. His sleep, mood, and focus improved dramatically. As did mine. I used to sleep nine hours and couldn't wake up. Now I sleep six to seven hours and wake up rested and energetic. A life changer. As with Peterson, I lost weight and gained muscularity without a lot of excercise. For the first time in my life I'm starting to see my abs. A nice side effect.
Toss in a cleanse and IF and we’ve got triple bingo! Score!21 -
cmriverside wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »Copper_Boom wrote: »Nutrition/fitness/weight loss.
I think you're supposed to answer first.
I see a lot of people staunchly defending certain things as 'the one true way of eating that works for everyone' (TM). I think that most long-timers would agree that each of us need to find what works for us in regards to eating schedule, macro breakdown, etc. Not being too rigid, or trying to change your diet and lifestyle to the point that it's unsustainable. It's funny how heated some of these discussions can get around diet and exercise.
I've never seen moderation become such a hotly contested topic in any other setting than this.
Yeah.
Taking the chance of starting WWIII, but I agree with this...
Some people are moderators with some foods and some just aren't.
If you are - well, good for you.
Maybe step out of the discussions with people who aren't.
Not everyone is the same on this.
That brings up an interesting point. I am a moderator, but that doesn't give me leave to feel morally superior to someone who is an abstainer. Alternately, my daily chocolate habit doesn't mean I'm weaker than someone who hasn't had a chocolate bar since Doc Martens were cool.
Doc Martins are still cool.. At least to my generation (Late 20's)1 -
_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »@NovusDies thanks for a constructive answer, much more helpful than all the ''woos''
No problem and none of your woos have come from me nor will they ever unless it is an accidental clicking. I don't use that function.3 -
I don't agree with the simple assumption that science wins. /quote]
The whiz-bang, neat-o, golly-gee thing to remember here is that your opinion does not equal scientific fact. Nor do the opinions of some people who have created YouTube channels (you do realize that literally anyone can do that, right? Flat-earthers, Elvis sightings...and this silly *kitten*).4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I don't agree with the simple assumption that "calories in vs. calories out" is directly related to gaining or losing weight. The direct and only metabolic mechanism for fat build-up is excess blood glucose and insulin as a result of excess carbs. Only by depleting blood glucose and therefore depleting insulin your body will start burning fat.
Yes, this can be achieved by (a lot of) cardiovascular excercise, but also and much easier by drastic reduction of carb intake. About half of the population is insulin resistant to some extent. This means that less glucose (energy) is transported to muscles and more to fat cells. Simply reducing calories will result in less energy, less excercise, and no significant weight loss. Medical scientists like Paul Mason, Stephen Phinney and Tim Noakes have treated obese patients with a low carb (ketogenic) diet with impressive results. Check YouTube.
I started keto for my mental health after watching a video of Jordan Peterson on his carnivore diet. His sleep, mood, and focus improved dramatically. As did mine. I used to sleep nine hours and couldn't wake up. Now I sleep six to seven hours and wake up rested and energetic. A life changer. As with Peterson, I lost weight and gained muscularity without a lot of excercise. For the first time in my life I'm starting to see my abs. A nice side effect.
In a way, it's almost charming that we have people now who are so far removed from any real life experience or observation of what happens when people undergo calorie restriction through literal lack of food. Throughout much of human history (and still in some parts of the world today), people are all too familiar with the very real effects of calorie restriction.
But no, Peterson says something else on a youtube video, so it must be that calories aren't real.
I like the part where he says "Check YouTube."17 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I don't agree with the simple assumption that "calories in vs. calories out" is directly related to gaining or losing weight. The direct and only metabolic mechanism for fat build-up is excess blood glucose and insulin as a result of excess carbs. Only by depleting blood glucose and therefore depleting insulin your body will start burning fat.
Yes, this can be achieved by (a lot of) cardiovascular excercise, but also and much easier by drastic reduction of carb intake. About half of the population is insulin resistant to some extent. This means that less glucose (energy) is transported to muscles and more to fat cells. Simply reducing calories will result in less energy, less excercise, and no significant weight loss. Medical scientists like Paul Mason, Stephen Phinney and Tim Noakes have treated obese patients with a low carb (ketogenic) diet with impressive results. Check YouTube.
I started keto for my mental health after watching a video of Jordan Peterson on his carnivore diet. His sleep, mood, and focus improved dramatically. As did mine. I used to sleep nine hours and couldn't wake up. Now I sleep six to seven hours and wake up rested and energetic. A life changer. As with Peterson, I lost weight and gained muscularity without a lot of excercise. For the first time in my life I'm starting to see my abs. A nice side effect.
In a way, it's almost charming that we have people now who are so far removed from any real life experience or observation of what happens when people undergo calorie restriction through literal lack of food. Throughout much of human history (and still in some parts of the world today), people are all too familiar with the very real effects of calorie restriction.
But no, Peterson says something else on a youtube video, so it must be that calories aren't real.
I like the part where he says "Check YouTube."
If you don't believe me, check out what a total stranger looking to profit from it has to say! Would someone lie on video? Impossible!15 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I don't agree with the simple assumption that "calories in vs. calories out" is directly related to gaining or losing weight. The direct and only metabolic mechanism for fat build-up is excess blood glucose and insulin as a result of excess carbs. Only by depleting blood glucose and therefore depleting insulin your body will start burning fat.
Yes, this can be achieved by (a lot of) cardiovascular excercise, but also and much easier by drastic reduction of carb intake. About half of the population is insulin resistant to some extent. This means that less glucose (energy) is transported to muscles and more to fat cells. Simply reducing calories will result in less energy, less excercise, and no significant weight loss. Medical scientists like Paul Mason, Stephen Phinney and Tim Noakes have treated obese patients with a low carb (ketogenic) diet with impressive results. Check YouTube.
I started keto for my mental health after watching a video of Jordan Peterson on his carnivore diet. His sleep, mood, and focus improved dramatically. As did mine. I used to sleep nine hours and couldn't wake up. Now I sleep six to seven hours and wake up rested and energetic. A life changer. As with Peterson, I lost weight and gained muscularity without a lot of excercise. For the first time in my life I'm starting to see my abs. A nice side effect.
In a way, it's almost charming that we have people now who are so far removed from any real life experience or observation of what happens when people undergo calorie restriction through literal lack of food. Throughout much of human history (and still in some parts of the world today), people are all too familiar with the very real effects of calorie restriction.
But no, Peterson says something else on a youtube video, so it must be that calories aren't real.
I like the part where he says "Check YouTube."
If you don't believe me, check out what a total stranger looking to profit from it has to say! Would someone lie on video? Impossible!
Bonus points if they are attractive and/or have a posh British accent, as both obviously make people smarter!11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I don't agree with the simple assumption that "calories in vs. calories out" is directly related to gaining or losing weight. The direct and only metabolic mechanism for fat build-up is excess blood glucose and insulin as a result of excess carbs. Only by depleting blood glucose and therefore depleting insulin your body will start burning fat.
Yes, this can be achieved by (a lot of) cardiovascular excercise, but also and much easier by drastic reduction of carb intake. About half of the population is insulin resistant to some extent. This means that less glucose (energy) is transported to muscles and more to fat cells. Simply reducing calories will result in less energy, less excercise, and no significant weight loss. Medical scientists like Paul Mason, Stephen Phinney and Tim Noakes have treated obese patients with a low carb (ketogenic) diet with impressive results. Check YouTube.
I started keto for my mental health after watching a video of Jordan Peterson on his carnivore diet. His sleep, mood, and focus improved dramatically. As did mine. I used to sleep nine hours and couldn't wake up. Now I sleep six to seven hours and wake up rested and energetic. A life changer. As with Peterson, I lost weight and gained muscularity without a lot of excercise. For the first time in my life I'm starting to see my abs. A nice side effect.
In a way, it's almost charming that we have people now who are so far removed from any real life experience or observation of what happens when people undergo calorie restriction through literal lack of food. Throughout much of human history (and still in some parts of the world today), people are all too familiar with the very real effects of calorie restriction.
But no, Peterson says something else on a youtube video, so it must be that calories aren't real.
I like the part where he says "Check YouTube."
If you don't believe me, check out what a total stranger looking to profit from it has to say! Would someone lie on video? Impossible!
Bonus points if they are attractive and/or have a posh British accent, as both obviously make people smarter!
You forgot the "surrounding mythology that makes adherents feel like extra-special insightful iconoclasts, ahead of the foolish corporate-controlled hidebound scientists".9 -
That weight loss surgery doesn't work. It does. It has by far the best statistics for long term weight maintenance than any diet or exercise regime currently available.
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_Pastafarian_ wrote: »That weight loss surgery doesn't work. It does. It has by far the best statistics for long term weight maintenance than any diet or exercise regime currently available.
Really?!? I'd always heard the opposite. Well, maybe not the opposite, but that it had a low success rate long term.4 -
I’m assuming most people are on a personal journey, and we are all travelers having a park bench conversation. Some stories and points are better than others. Even those who are new to the forum are not new to the journey. I think this is a great no cost tool and am glad the community bench exists.7
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quiksylver296 wrote: »_Pastafarian_ wrote: »That weight loss surgery doesn't work. It does. It has by far the best statistics for long term weight maintenance than any diet or exercise regime currently available.
Really?!? I'd always heard the opposite. Well, maybe not the opposite, but that it had a low success rate long term.
I think the low success rate may also be attributable to the group who typically has WLS. Strictly gut instinct speaking, long-term success rates in people of comparable stats who lost weight either with or without surgery seem to be, unfortunately, quite low. Now, actual research may prove me woefully misinformed, and I'm willing to accept that if so!
(I hope this makes sense. It may just be the cold medicine talking.)0 -
That brings up an interesting point. I am a moderator, but that doesn't give me leave to feel morally superior to someone who is an abstainer. Alternately, my daily chocolate habit doesn't mean I'm weaker than someone who hasn't had a chocolate bar since Doc Martens were cool.
Doc Martens aren't cool anymore?
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