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Keto diet = good or bad
Replies
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GaleHawkins wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
@trailjunkey those are awesome Keto results and similar to what I have experienced since Oct 2014.
While I am down a much needed 50 pounds I had no weight loss agenda but just to improve all of my health markers over time and to manage my pain levels without Rx Meds. I continue to maintain the way way I lost weight eating 3,000-4,000 calories daily. Now that I can walk any distance I wish and do not use power shopping carts any more I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
4,000 calories is a lot of calories for 68 year old to burn in a day with just walking, not running.
I'd also be interested in what study shows a 250 calorie change in metabolism for ketosis. It would tend to go against most of the literature on the subject I've ever seen.
But the 3000 calories days may make things average out.
If you are new here Oct 2014 on a hunch I cut out all foods containing added sugars and or any form of any grain. Then I learned about Keto and started to keeping my carbs just under 50 daily. It was for pain management and to dodge the risks associated with Enbrel injection usage long term that I was planning to start in Nov 2014. I read a number of cancer protocols just using food hoping to lower my increased risk from the Enbrel. I was in a very poor state of health at that time and needed help just to get and out of cars.
Just 30 days later my new Way Of Eating was dropping my 40 years of high pain levels so I told the MD's that I would not be starting Enbrel injections just yet. Now I have much less pain than I can ever remember in my life with no Rx Med usage.
From time to time when setting at McDonalds I go online and guesstimate my calories but I do not normally track or count anything so there are no logs but I do weigh twice each morning to track my hydration levels.
As noted I am not in the weight loss mindset and never plan to do so. I eat the WOE mentioned above for my health. I eat when I get hungry until I want to stop eating. Keto somehow seemed to fix my disorder eating that included cakes, pies, ice cream and the likes. No cravings brings a level of eating freedom I never knew until I was 63. While some say Keto can not fix their health concerns and I am sure they are correct I know how Keto is helping me recover my health. My main long term focus is to eat in a way that gives me the potential to live to be 110 walking and talking the entire way. In fact I have invited a few to my 110th Birthday Bash.
Best to your health as well. MFP is an awesome site with something for everyone.
Guesstimating a few high days doesn't mean that was your actual calories. Last time we had the discussion, your estimate was 2000-3000 calories. So it's appears there has been inflation based on random low carb studies. I doubt, you would even be remotely near those actual levels of TDEE if you did metabolic chamber testing. Considering I am half your age and lift 5 days a week (with no cardio), and I meticulously track, I can say my TDEE is 2800-3000 calories.
2000, 3000, 4000, can we get 5000? You sir in the redshirt?8 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
...I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
Care to share this amazing study?
https://everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/diet/study-shows-how-low-carb-diets-may-lead-weight-loss/
It was 209 greater calories in TDEE. There was no difference in Resting Expenditure, which is what a keto burn would imply.
Even that claim seems to be based on assuming the calorie intake for the groups are accurate. Yet this wasn't any kind of metabolic ward study. Given observations in wards, it is more likely the low carb group was eating more than reported.
If you are interested, here is the actual study: https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4583
Overall, it's not a bad designed study. This one, unlike Ludwig's previous studies, actually controls protein. But it's still a free living study with nutritional counseling as opposed to metabolic chamber testing. It notes "slight" increases in activity in the low carb groups. In comparison, the moderate carb group had a similar TDEE (~50 calorie different), which is still higher than the high carb group. It's possible I a missed it, but I saw no changes to RMR.
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magnusthenerd wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
...I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
Care to share this amazing study?
https://everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/diet/study-shows-how-low-carb-diets-may-lead-weight-loss/
It was 209 greater calories in TDEE. There was no difference in Resting Expenditure, which is what a keto burn would imply.
Even that claim seems to be based on assuming the calorie intake for the groups are accurate. Yet this wasn't any kind of metabolic ward study. Given observations in wards, it is more likely the low carb group was eating more than reported.
If you are interested, here is the actual study: https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4583
Overall, it's not a bad designed study. This one, unlike Ludwig's previous studies, actually controls protein. But it's still a free living study with nutritional counseling as opposed to metabolic chamber testing. It notes "slight" increases in activity in the low carb groups. In comparison, the moderate carb group had a similar TDEE (~50 calorie different), which is still higher than the high carb group. It's possible I a missed it, but I saw no changes to RMR.
I had the study, where do you think I got the number 209 from? Given it isn't a metabolic ward study and all maintained calories, I'm inclined to think there's just reporting errors over an actual figit spinner effect from being ketotaller1 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
@trailjunkey those are awesome Keto results and similar to what I have experienced since Oct 2014.
While I am down a much needed 50 pounds I had no weight loss agenda but just to improve all of my health markers over time and to manage my pain levels without Rx Meds. I continue to maintain the way way I lost weight eating 3,000-4,000 calories daily. Now that I can walk any distance I wish and do not use power shopping carts any more I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
4,000 calories is a lot of calories for 68 year old to burn in a day with just walking, not running.
I'd also be interested in what study shows a 250 calorie change in metabolism for ketosis. It would tend to go against most of the literature on the subject I've ever seen.
But the 3000 calories days may make things average out.
If you are new here Oct 2014 on a hunch I cut out all foods containing added sugars and or any form of any grain. Then I learned about Keto and started to keeping my carbs just under 50 daily. It was for pain management and to dodge the risks associated with Enbrel injection usage long term that I was planning to start in Nov 2014. I read a number of cancer protocols just using food hoping to lower my increased risk from the Enbrel. I was in a very poor state of health at that time and needed help just to get and out of cars.
Just 30 days later my new Way Of Eating was dropping my 40 years of high pain levels so I told the MD's that I would not be starting Enbrel injections just yet. Now I have much less pain than I can ever remember in my life with no Rx Med usage.
From time to time when setting at McDonalds I go online and guesstimate my calories but I do not normally track or count anything so there are no logs but I do weigh twice each morning to track my hydration levels.
As noted I am not in the weight loss mindset and never plan to do so. I eat the WOE mentioned above for my health. I eat when I get hungry until I want to stop eating. Keto somehow seemed to fix my disorder eating that included cakes, pies, ice cream and the likes. No cravings brings a level of eating freedom I never knew until I was 63. While some say Keto can not fix their health concerns and I am sure they are correct I know how Keto is helping me recover my health. My main long term focus is to eat in a way that gives me the potential to live to be 110 walking and talking the entire way. In fact I have invited a few to my 110th Birthday Bash.
Best to your health as well. MFP is an awesome site with something for everyone.
Guesstimating a few high days doesn't mean that was your actual calories. Last time we had the discussion, your estimate was 2000-3000 calories. So it's appears there has been inflation based on random low carb studies. I doubt, you would even be remotely near those actual levels of TDEE if you did metabolic chamber testing. Considering I am half your age and lift 5 days a week (with no cardio), and I meticulously track, I can say my TDEE is 2800-3000 calories.
2000, 3000, 4000, can we get 5000? You sir in the redshirt?
Well, we know what happens to the guys in the red shirts.
I haven't had a chance to read the actual study, but thanks everyone for summarizing for me!3 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
...I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
Care to share this amazing study?
https://everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/diet/study-shows-how-low-carb-diets-may-lead-weight-loss/
It was 209 greater calories in TDEE. There was no difference in Resting Expenditure, which is what a keto burn would imply.
Even that claim seems to be based on assuming the calorie intake for the groups are accurate. Yet this wasn't any kind of metabolic ward study. Given observations in wards, it is more likely the low carb group was eating more than reported.
If you are interested, here is the actual study: https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4583
Overall, it's not a bad designed study. This one, unlike Ludwig's previous studies, actually controls protein. But it's still a free living study with nutritional counseling as opposed to metabolic chamber testing. It notes "slight" increases in activity in the low carb groups. In comparison, the moderate carb group had a similar TDEE (~50 calorie different), which is still higher than the high carb group. It's possible I a missed it, but I saw no changes to RMR.
I had the study, where do you think I got the number 209 from? Given it isn't a metabolic ward study and all maintained calories, I'm inclined to think there's just reporting errors over an actual figit spinner effect from being ketotaller
Sorry. I thought you got that from the website posted to summarize the study.0 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
@trailjunkey those are awesome Keto results and similar to what I have experienced since Oct 2014.
While I am down a much needed 50 pounds I had no weight loss agenda but just to improve all of my health markers over time and to manage my pain levels without Rx Meds. I continue to maintain the way way I lost weight eating 3,000-4,000 calories daily. Now that I can walk any distance I wish and do not use power shopping carts any more I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
4,000 calories is a lot of calories for 68 year old to burn in a day with just walking, not running.
I'd also be interested in what study shows a 250 calorie change in metabolism for ketosis. It would tend to go against most of the literature on the subject I've ever seen.
But the 3000 calories days may make things average out.
If you are new here Oct 2014 on a hunch I cut out all foods containing added sugars and or any form of any grain. Then I learned about Keto and started to keeping my carbs just under 50 daily. It was for pain management and to dodge the risks associated with Enbrel injection usage long term that I was planning to start in Nov 2014. I read a number of cancer protocols just using food hoping to lower my increased risk from the Enbrel. I was in a very poor state of health at that time and needed help just to get and out of cars.
Just 30 days later my new Way Of Eating was dropping my 40 years of high pain levels so I told the MD's that I would not be starting Enbrel injections just yet. Now I have much less pain than I can ever remember in my life with no Rx Med usage.
From time to time when setting at McDonalds I go online and guesstimate my calories but I do not normally track or count anything so there are no logs but I do weigh twice each morning to track my hydration levels.
As noted I am not in the weight loss mindset and never plan to do so. I eat the WOE mentioned above for my health. I eat when I get hungry until I want to stop eating. Keto somehow seemed to fix my disorder eating that included cakes, pies, ice cream and the likes. No cravings brings a level of eating freedom I never knew until I was 63. While some say Keto can not fix their health concerns and I am sure they are correct I know how Keto is helping me recover my health. My main long term focus is to eat in a way that gives me the potential to live to be 110 walking and talking the entire way. In fact I have invited a few to my 110th Birthday Bash.
Best to your health as well. MFP is an awesome site with something for everyone.
Seems a lot of under powered statistics in proportion to the claimed causative, but alright. Nice you're doing better now than you were, whatever the attribution.
You make a good point. I can only say my health is improving and my medical team is seeing some reversal of my Ankylosing Spondylitis physical limitations. Where it is due to Keto, my mindset, etc is unknown to me today.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
...I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
Care to share this amazing study?
https://everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/diet/study-shows-how-low-carb-diets-may-lead-weight-loss/
That was a twenty-week study and the article itself discloses that other studies have shown different results. Why would this particular study make you "sure" that you're burning more calories while it's obviously still not established and replicated?
As you know I put no stock into this particular or other studies about calories because I put no stock into calories in general when it comes to health in general. Today we really do not know how the human body uses energy or why two people with seemingly equal CICO numbers yet they maintain, gain or lose at different rates. I am convinced calories are just a very small fraction of the weight/health equation.
While I am not concerned about calories because I have personally found no reason to do so I am interested to learn more how quantum mechanics/physics impacts human health and the difference between Eastern and Western Medicine modes and results.
https://quantumuniversity.com/integrative-medicine/quantum-physics-integrative-medicine/20 -
trailjunkey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
49 lbs since october? how low are your calories?
No, 49 pounds since Jan. 1 of 2018. 27lbs on Keto since the end of October. Sorry for the confusion.
ok thats an ok rate of loss then0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
@trailjunkey those are awesome Keto results and similar to what I have experienced since Oct 2014.
Now at 68 my health and health markers continue to improve. My long term health issue has been the side effects of the Ankylosing Spondylitis form of arthritis. It has taken a long time but I am seeing some reversing of the ankylosing spondylitis which makes driving and most everything easier to do due to joints starting to move a few degrees in some areas.
While I am down a much needed 50 pounds I had no weight loss agenda but just to improve all of my health markers over time and to manage my pain levels without Rx Meds. I continue to maintain the way way I lost weight eating 3,000-4,000 calories daily. Now that I can walk any distance I wish and do not use power shopping carts any more I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
About a month ago I started eating some of fruit and whole food carb sources (no processed foods) after being off that for 4 years. My Blood Pressure started to drift up, headaches started to return and the worse of all my pitting edema in my lower legs returned. These are all gone now that I am back to keeping my daily carbs down to around 50 grams daily.
Best of continued success.
McDonalds isn’t processed food?5 -
WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
@trailjunkey those are awesome Keto results and similar to what I have experienced since Oct 2014.
Now at 68 my health and health markers continue to improve. My long term health issue has been the side effects of the Ankylosing Spondylitis form of arthritis. It has taken a long time but I am seeing some reversing of the ankylosing spondylitis which makes driving and most everything easier to do due to joints starting to move a few degrees in some areas.
While I am down a much needed 50 pounds I had no weight loss agenda but just to improve all of my health markers over time and to manage my pain levels without Rx Meds. I continue to maintain the way way I lost weight eating 3,000-4,000 calories daily. Now that I can walk any distance I wish and do not use power shopping carts any more I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
About a month ago I started eating some of fruit and whole food carb sources (no processed foods) after being off that for 4 years. My Blood Pressure started to drift up, headaches started to return and the worse of all my pitting edema in my lower legs returned. These are all gone now that I am back to keeping my daily carbs down to around 50 grams daily.
Best of continued success.
McDonalds isn’t processed food?
Not that violates my no added sugars and or any form of grains yet be low carb.9 -
Ahh personal definitions. See this is why it’s so hard to clarify when someone says “you must cut out processed foods to be healthy” what exactly they mean.GaleHawkins wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
@trailjunkey those are awesome Keto results and similar to what I have experienced since Oct 2014.
Now at 68 my health and health markers continue to improve. My long term health issue has been the side effects of the Ankylosing Spondylitis form of arthritis. It has taken a long time but I am seeing some reversing of the ankylosing spondylitis which makes driving and most everything easier to do due to joints starting to move a few degrees in some areas.
While I am down a much needed 50 pounds I had no weight loss agenda but just to improve all of my health markers over time and to manage my pain levels without Rx Meds. I continue to maintain the way way I lost weight eating 3,000-4,000 calories daily. Now that I can walk any distance I wish and do not use power shopping carts any more I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
About a month ago I started eating some of fruit and whole food carb sources (no processed foods) after being off that for 4 years. My Blood Pressure started to drift up, headaches started to return and the worse of all my pitting edema in my lower legs returned. These are all gone now that I am back to keeping my daily carbs down to around 50 grams daily.
Best of continued success.
McDonalds isn’t processed food?
Not that violates my no added sugars and or any form of grains yet be low carb.
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It is useful to declare proprietary definitions before usage. It prevents having a semantics discussion over actually addressing if facts or entailments are the disagreement.5
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WinoGelato wrote: »
Ahh personal definitions. See this is why it’s so hard to clarify when someone says “you must cut out processed foods to be healthy” what exactly they mean.GaleHawkins wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
@trailjunkey those are awesome Keto results and similar to what I have experienced since Oct 2014.
Now at 68 my health and health markers continue to improve. My long term health issue has been the side effects of the Ankylosing Spondylitis form of arthritis. It has taken a long time but I am seeing some reversing of the ankylosing spondylitis which makes driving and most everything easier to do due to joints starting to move a few degrees in some areas.
While I am down a much needed 50 pounds I had no weight loss agenda but just to improve all of my health markers over time and to manage my pain levels without Rx Meds. I continue to maintain the way way I lost weight eating 3,000-4,000 calories daily. Now that I can walk any distance I wish and do not use power shopping carts any more I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
About a month ago I started eating some of fruit and whole food carb sources (no processed foods) after being off that for 4 years. My Blood Pressure started to drift up, headaches started to return and the worse of all my pitting edema in my lower legs returned. These are all gone now that I am back to keeping my daily carbs down to around 50 grams daily.
Best of continued success.
McDonalds isn’t processed food?
Not that violates my no added sugars and or any form of grains yet be low carb.
If I can by sight, smell and taste normally I can tell its source. My almonds, coconut chips and chocolate bars are processed but not beyond recognition.
I hope that helps you when reading my posts going forward.
Yes McDonald's will sell you truly process food if on menu. I order off of the alacart menu for people that are special snow flakes.
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Well now I'm not sure there's a criteria for the usage so much as it is some kind of intuition.5
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magnusthenerd wrote: »Well now I'm not sure there's a criteria for the usage so much as it is some kind of intuition.
When you put too much thought into it, it just becomes painful lol.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »
Ahh personal definitions. See this is why it’s so hard to clarify when someone says “you must cut out processed foods to be healthy” what exactly they mean.GaleHawkins wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
@trailjunkey those are awesome Keto results and similar to what I have experienced since Oct 2014.
Now at 68 my health and health markers continue to improve. My long term health issue has been the side effects of the Ankylosing Spondylitis form of arthritis. It has taken a long time but I am seeing some reversing of the ankylosing spondylitis which makes driving and most everything easier to do due to joints starting to move a few degrees in some areas.
While I am down a much needed 50 pounds I had no weight loss agenda but just to improve all of my health markers over time and to manage my pain levels without Rx Meds. I continue to maintain the way way I lost weight eating 3,000-4,000 calories daily. Now that I can walk any distance I wish and do not use power shopping carts any more I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
About a month ago I started eating some of fruit and whole food carb sources (no processed foods) after being off that for 4 years. My Blood Pressure started to drift up, headaches started to return and the worse of all my pitting edema in my lower legs returned. These are all gone now that I am back to keeping my daily carbs down to around 50 grams daily.
Best of continued success.
McDonalds isn’t processed food?
Not that violates my no added sugars and or any form of grains yet be low carb.
If I can by sight, smell and taste normally I can tell its source. My almonds, coconut chips and chocolate bars are processed but not beyond recognition.
So none of the processed food I eat is "processed." Cool. That's not confusing at all.
Pretty sure the oats and quinoa I ate this morning are recognizable in such a manner. Or the fruit, which you claim is bad for you.
Really, same for McD's fries (from JR Simplot's potatoes), or even sugar.
Maybe don't use "processed" if you really have nothing against processing and are mainly just trying to say carbs are bad.
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I have had several major orthopedic surgeries by renown doctors and I have told them about my keto diet-- they never had a problem with it (one told me to just not jack up on MCT oil the night before surgery)
and I have been able to recover faster from surgery-- since staying ketosis is a great way of reducing inflammation.
and since I've had procedures while NOT on keto, I know that for my body being in a state of ketosis is just easier for healing. Also you can eat a ton more effective calories.
I think the most dangerous part of keto is it's really, REALLY easy to lose your appetite and neglect giving your body proper salts and nutrients-- which I learned when first starting. That's really terrible to go through and you MUST stay on top of your nutrients and calories or else you'll turn into a zombie.
14 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
...I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
Care to share this amazing study?
https://everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/diet/study-shows-how-low-carb-diets-may-lead-weight-loss/
That was a twenty-week study and the article itself discloses that other studies have shown different results. Why would this particular study make you "sure" that you're burning more calories while it's obviously still not established and replicated?
As you know I put no stock into this particular or other studies about calories because I put no stock into calories in general when it comes to health in general. Today we really do not know how the human body uses energy or why two people with seemingly equal CICO numbers yet they maintain, gain or lose at different rates. I am convinced calories are just a very small fraction of the weight/health equation.
While I am not concerned about calories because I have personally found no reason to do so I am interested to learn more how quantum mechanics/physics impacts human health and the difference between Eastern and Western Medicine modes and results.
https://quantumuniversity.com/integrative-medicine/quantum-physics-integrative-medicine/
Which variable represents keto?
11 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »
Ahh personal definitions. See this is why it’s so hard to clarify when someone says “you must cut out processed foods to be healthy” what exactly they mean.GaleHawkins wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
@trailjunkey those are awesome Keto results and similar to what I have experienced since Oct 2014.
Now at 68 my health and health markers continue to improve. My long term health issue has been the side effects of the Ankylosing Spondylitis form of arthritis. It has taken a long time but I am seeing some reversing of the ankylosing spondylitis which makes driving and most everything easier to do due to joints starting to move a few degrees in some areas.
While I am down a much needed 50 pounds I had no weight loss agenda but just to improve all of my health markers over time and to manage my pain levels without Rx Meds. I continue to maintain the way way I lost weight eating 3,000-4,000 calories daily. Now that I can walk any distance I wish and do not use power shopping carts any more I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
About a month ago I started eating some of fruit and whole food carb sources (no processed foods) after being off that for 4 years. My Blood Pressure started to drift up, headaches started to return and the worse of all my pitting edema in my lower legs returned. These are all gone now that I am back to keeping my daily carbs down to around 50 grams daily.
Best of continued success.
McDonalds isn’t processed food?
Not that violates my no added sugars and or any form of grains yet be low carb.
If I can by sight, smell and taste normally I can tell its source. My almonds, coconut chips and chocolate bars are processed but not beyond recognition.
So none of the processed food I eat is "processed." Cool. That's not confusing at all.
Pretty sure the oats and quinoa I ate this morning are recognizable in such a manner. Or the fruit, which you claim is bad for you.
Really, same for McD's fries (from JR Simplot's potatoes), or even sugar.
Maybe don't use "processed" if you really have nothing against processing and are mainly just trying to say carbs are bad.
I am talking about MY health and not the health of others for four years now. Yes more than 50 grams of carbs daily is Bad for ME. Pitting edema of the lower extremities long term is harmful to anyone's health. I can keep my carbs around 50 grams daily and not have pitting edema. I am eating the way that works for me. How others eat is their own business.15 -
@budonyan that is interesting info about the MCT warning that I will have to read up on as to WHY. I have been told the same thing about fish oil which I know may act as a blood thinner. Your point about Keto being a great way to reduce inflammation rings true in my body for sure. Thanks for sharing and the best of continued success.13
-
Basically every diet that's based on mostly whole foods (which keto can be but is not necessarily, of course) claims to lower inflammation. I just listened to a podcast with Dean Ornish and he went on about how his WFPB/LF is great since it lowers inflammation (as a reason why his way of eating is best and keto is bad), and from what I've read elsewhere he's got a point about his own way of eating and some ways of doing keto, although he's wrong in some ways too:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/foods-that-fight-inflammation4 -
@johnslater461 I had no idea keto was part of Schrödinger equation. I will defer to you to provide the answer to your question that I am sure many MFP readers would love to learn more how keto is tied to quantum mechanics as you are suggesting. We know how powerful keto can be for reversing disease states and if you can show us how it is by quantum mechanics it could drive keto research at even a faster rate of progress than we see today.
While you are preparing your answer please also look at the article at the bottom of the link below about Dark Matter labelled, 'Researcher finds hint of dark energy discussion in letters between Einstein and Schrodinger'. Today I ran across the term "Dark Matter" used by Hilary L. Hunt M.D. in his book called 'Wilderness Cry' 2016 2nd edition. I would like your thoughts on Dark Energy itself and if it may relate to the human diet in any way.
Thanks.
https://phys.org/news/2013-04-schrodinger-equation.html18 -
maureenkhilde wrote: »Keto. My personal opinion (not fact)? It's a stupid fad diet. How is staying so low on carbs that you end up skipping out on vegetables a good thing? If you want weight loss CICO is ultimately what can get you results.
I personally do a low carb diet. But you do not seem to know much about a diet you are bashing. On Keto there are quite a few Vegetables that you can eat on a regular basis. Really the ones that are off limits are starchy vegetables. And they are not on low carb diets either.
While you can have a limited variety, its low quantity. At least I thought so
I can agree with your statement. But as I fall in the Low carb end, opposed to those who do the Keto. I really can have a decent amount of almost any type of vegetable. Other than the starchy ones, which also do bad things for my blood sugars. So if I stay at 4 oz or less say roasted sweet potatoes here and there I am satisfied. With so many variations, everyone should be able to find one that works for them. But yes, there are some veges that I like that I really do not eat much of anymore, I just put some in to soups here and there. Matchstick carrots.2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »@johnslater461 I had no idea keto was part of Schrödinger equation. I will defer to you to provide the answer to your question that I am sure many MFP readers would love to learn more how keto is tied to quantum mechanics as you are suggesting. We know how powerful keto can be for reversing disease states and if you can show us how it is by quantum mechanics it could drive keto research at even a faster rate of progress than we see today.
While you are preparing your answer please also look at the article at the bottom of the link below about Dark Matter labelled, 'Researcher finds hint of dark energy discussion in letters between Einstein and Schrodinger'. Today I ran across the term "Dark Matter" used by Hilary L. Hunt M.D. in his book called 'Wilderness Cry' 2016 2nd edition. I would like your thoughts on Dark Energy itself and if it may relate to the human diet in any way.
Thanks.
https://phys.org/news/2013-04-schrodinger-equation.html
Personally, my interest in quantum mechanics currently ranges as far as understanding this perplexing and very real mystery of life and physics:
12 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
...I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
Care to share this amazing study?
https://everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/diet/study-shows-how-low-carb-diets-may-lead-weight-loss/
That was a twenty-week study and the article itself discloses that other studies have shown different results. Why would this particular study make you "sure" that you're burning more calories while it's obviously still not established and replicated?
As you know I put no stock into this particular or other studies about calories because I put no stock into calories in general when it comes to health in general. Today we really do not know how the human body uses energy or why two people with seemingly equal CICO numbers yet they maintain, gain or lose at different rates. I am convinced calories are just a very small fraction of the weight/health equation.
While I am not concerned about calories because I have personally found no reason to do so I am interested to learn more how quantum mechanics/physics impacts human health and the difference between Eastern and Western Medicine modes and results.
https://quantumuniversity.com/integrative-medicine/quantum-physics-integrative-medicine/
If you put no stock in the study, why did you post it in response to the question about how you were sure you were "naturally" burning more calories?
Why would a study that you put no stock in make you sure that was happening?5 -
The ability to overcomplicate this stuff is stunning...10
-
GaleHawkins wrote: »@johnslater461 I had no idea keto was part of Schrödinger equation. I will defer to you to provide the answer to your question that I am sure many MFP readers would love to learn more how keto is tied to quantum mechanics as you are suggesting. We know how powerful keto can be for reversing disease states and if you can show us how it is by quantum mechanics it could drive keto research at even a faster rate of progress than we see today.
While you are preparing your answer please also look at the article at the bottom of the link below about Dark Matter labelled, 'Researcher finds hint of dark energy discussion in letters between Einstein and Schrodinger'. Today I ran across the term "Dark Matter" used by Hilary L. Hunt M.D. in his book called 'Wilderness Cry' 2016 2nd edition. I would like your thoughts on Dark Energy itself and if it may relate to the human diet in any way.
Thanks.
https://phys.org/news/2013-04-schrodinger-equation.html
Wait, what? Even if dark energy was involved in every single interaction in the human body - and frankly, if it is just the minimum energy of space itself, it technically does - it would still have no appreciable effect on anything in the human body. The scales is so far off, no human could even come up with a good analogy because it would already involve things we have to analogize - like a grain of sand compared to the vastness of the solar system.
Plus, what would that even mean to be using dark energy? As the energy of space, to actually make it usable, presumably literal space - not matter in space but quantities of length itself - would have to disappear. What would that even conceivably mean?
And how would that even relate to ketosis? Do ketosis people shut off their chakra connection to dark energy and force their body to use the dark matter fat of their body to unleash Deepak Choprah's final form from the abyss of weight loss?
And then, why would all the ketoers who don't trust the actual physics modeling that over and over shows with proper metabolic wards that the body obeys CICO suddenly trust the these models that involve dark energy in calculating human weight loss?14 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
...I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
Care to share this amazing study?
https://everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/diet/study-shows-how-low-carb-diets-may-lead-weight-loss/
That was a twenty-week study and the article itself discloses that other studies have shown different results. Why would this particular study make you "sure" that you're burning more calories while it's obviously still not established and replicated?
As you know I put no stock into this particular or other studies about calories because I put no stock into calories in general when it comes to health in general. Today we really do not know how the human body uses energy or why two people with seemingly equal CICO numbers yet they maintain, gain or lose at different rates. I am convinced calories are just a very small fraction of the weight/health equation.
While I am not concerned about calories because I have personally found no reason to do so I am interested to learn more how quantum mechanics/physics impacts human health and the difference between Eastern and Western Medicine modes and results.
https://quantumuniversity.com/integrative-medicine/quantum-physics-integrative-medicine/
If you put no stock in the study, why did you post it in response to the question about how you were sure you were "naturally" burning more calories?
Why would a study that you put no stock in make you sure that was happening?
Who puts stock in any internet forum post?
As for that study goes I have not drilled down on their supporting docs to check any validity concerns because it mirrors my personal Keto experience.
I know a full 100% that keto is working to give me back my health after being on it for over 1500 days now but I can not tell you why it is working like nothing I tried in the first 63 years of my life. I know before when I lost weight by going hungry I was cold all of the time but for the past 1500 days I do not freeze to death all the time like before when I dropped a lot of weight by just going hungry. Well I never lost a lot of weight eating 3000+ calories daily either. Being able to maintain the weight loss and still eating the same 3000+ calorie WOE was a shock to me based off of posts from others.
It seems in my case keto enables my brain to get back in charge of my weight so all I have to be concerned with is the types of calories that I eat. No math or tracking being required makes Keto easy to do in my case.11 -
maureenkhilde wrote: »maureenkhilde wrote: »Keto. My personal opinion (not fact)? It's a stupid fad diet. How is staying so low on carbs that you end up skipping out on vegetables a good thing? If you want weight loss CICO is ultimately what can get you results.
I personally do a low carb diet. But you do not seem to know much about a diet you are bashing. On Keto there are quite a few Vegetables that you can eat on a regular basis. Really the ones that are off limits are starchy vegetables. And they are not on low carb diets either.
While you can have a limited variety, its low quantity. At least I thought so
I can agree with your statement. But as I fall in the Low carb end, opposed to those who do the Keto. I really can have a decent amount of almost any type of vegetable. Other than the starchy ones, which also do bad things for my blood sugars. So if I stay at 4 oz or less say roasted sweet potatoes here and there I am satisfied. With so many variations, everyone should be able to find one that works for them. But yes, there are some veges that I like that I really do not eat much of anymore, I just put some in to soups here and there. Matchstick carrots.
Yeah, low carb has plenty of veg as long as you use the carbs sensibly. I am low carb in some definitions (or was until I started my current diet experiment) and I could have as many veg as desired (usually 10+ servings), some fruit, and even starchy carbs with at least one meal, as long as the serving is moderate (or smaller servings at two meals). If someone considers low carb just less than 150 g (I think of that as more "moderate carb"), then it's even easier.
My personal experience with keto was that even on 60 g total, 35 g net, I was struggling to eat all the non starchy veg (plus avocado) I wanted and not go over even with limited full fat dairy and maybe a serving of nuts as my only other carbs (usually on alternate days).
That was without any fruit at all.
If someone is on under 20 net, I do think that for me that would be a huge decline in veg, and when they talk about eating other carb sources (including small amounts of fruit or keto treats that sometimes have some carbs), then I can't imagine how they are getting in what I'd consider a good number of veg. But I think people start with different ideas about what plenty of veg is.4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »trailjunkey wrote: »I started Keto and intermittent fasting in October after using the traditional lower caloric diet with ADA macros for most of my weight loss attempts. I am down 49 pounds total but only about 27 of that is while on Keto. Better than all of that my A1C is no longer Pre-Diabetic. My Cholesterol is back to normal range. My Psoriasis has gone away. I no longer crave carbs and I now feel satisfied after my meals. Fifty pounds still to go to my target weight but it is working for me. My doctor is thrilled. I eat more vegetables now than I ever have. I don't eat alot of fruits right now but will in the future probably.
...I am sure I naturally burn more calories before factoring in how Keto is reported to increase calorie burn by 250 calories daily in some study.
Care to share this amazing study?
https://everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/diet/study-shows-how-low-carb-diets-may-lead-weight-loss/
That was a twenty-week study and the article itself discloses that other studies have shown different results. Why would this particular study make you "sure" that you're burning more calories while it's obviously still not established and replicated?
As you know I put no stock into this particular or other studies about calories because I put no stock into calories in general when it comes to health in general. Today we really do not know how the human body uses energy or why two people with seemingly equal CICO numbers yet they maintain, gain or lose at different rates. I am convinced calories are just a very small fraction of the weight/health equation.
While I am not concerned about calories because I have personally found no reason to do so I am interested to learn more how quantum mechanics/physics impacts human health and the difference between Eastern and Western Medicine modes and results.
https://quantumuniversity.com/integrative-medicine/quantum-physics-integrative-medicine/
If you put no stock in the study, why did you post it in response to the question about how you were sure you were "naturally" burning more calories?
Why would a study that you put no stock in make you sure that was happening?
Who puts stock in any internet forum post?
As for that study goes I have not drilled down on their supporting docs to check any validity concerns because it mirrors my personal Keto experience.
I know a full 100% that keto is working to give me back my health after being on it for over 1500 days now but I can not tell you why it is working like nothing I tried in the first 63 years of my life. I know before when I lost weight by going hungry I was cold all of the time but for the past 1500 days I do not freeze to death all the time like before when I dropped a lot of weight by just going hungry. Well I never lost a lot of weight eating 3000+ calories daily either. Being able to maintain the weight loss and still eating the same 3000+ calorie WOE was a shock to me based off of posts from others.
It seems in my case keto enables my brain to get back in charge of my weight so all I have to be concerned with is the types of calories that I eat. No math or tracking being required makes Keto easy to do in my case.
I'm not asking about a forum post. I'm asking about the study. The study that you cited in support of your claim that you were "sure" that you were burning additional calories due to your ketogenic diet. You are now saying that isn't true.
If what you're saying is that you don't bother to analyze claims when they mirror your personal experience . . . well, I appreciate your honesty but I think it makes you a terrible source of information. When a claim mirrors our personal experience or beliefs, that's actually a pretty good reason to question it. At the very least, consider not using information you haven't evaluated to try to support your claims. Just admit you believe it due to your personal experience. Saying you were "sure" due to the study was a lie.11
This discussion has been closed.
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