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Keto diet = good or bad

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  • psuLemonpsuLemon Posts: 33,795Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium MFP Moderator Posts: 33,795Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium MFP Moderator
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
    in my opinion, only

    As a very general rule, for people without FH, triglycerides tend to drop, HDL tends to go up, and LDL usually strays about the same although ostriches particle size tends to improve when someone eats a ketogenic diet. Also, inflammatory markers usually drop, and insulin is reduced - all positives when it comes to CAD or CVD. Ymmv

    Eating foods rich in cholesterol will not usually make your cholesterol worse.

    But for older people, especially women, we know that higher cholesterol is associated with better health, lower CAD and All cause mortality. Lowering it may not be helpful in the long run anyways. ;)

    Not sure how spell check got ostriches from particles. :D

    I agree that weight loss and exercise will impact cholesterol as well, but I am not sure if it is the greatest impact, or even more than diet or genetic issues.

    Find me a study with weight loss that doesn't improve metabolic markers. That information is pretty common. Its why all diets with weight loss lead to the conclusion you suggest for keto.

    If you think the diet makes a big difference, watch the impact as you gain weight. And if you compare body low fat and low carb diets, there is no statistical difference in weight loss or metabolic marker difference to include insulin, cvd risk or all cause mortality.

    I KNOW that weight loss improves lipids. I agreed with you. I just questioned if There was evidence to back up your statement.

    Keto's effects on lipids (and BG control for that matter) are seen in many without weight loss, or significant weight loss. A diet of excess calories and high fat, low carb, seems to be able to shift triglycerides and some lipids within days.

    But I'm not arguing that weight loss can improve lipids. I just don't know how accurate it is to say
    psuLemon wrote: »
    this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
    in my opinion, only

    Weight loss and exercise has the greatest impact on metabolic health. For all intents and purposes, its 95% of the equation. Focus on that and don't stress diet too much. Eat the one that will give you the highest rate of success.

    You don't know how accurate that statement is, or you want to believe that keto alone with no weight loss is just as good?

    Is there a weight loss vs keto control study? That would be the easy way to solve it.

    And yes, its fully recognized the benefits of BG control in diabetic patients.... No argument there.

    There is also conflicting evidence on how lipids are effected on lchf or keto. Some see large increases in LDL, which may not be beneficial. The argument on particulate size or other biomarkers hasn't exactly been accepted widely.
  • alc649alc649 Posts: 445Member Member Posts: 445Member Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    It's good if it helps you stay compliant, eliminate trigger foods, helps you form better relationships with foods and helps you long term to meeting a good weight.

    It sucks if you struggle with diets that are super restrictive, and enjoy and are satiated by healthy carb sources likes fruits/veggies/starches.

    This! I've only been doing keto for the past 2 weeks, but it helps me with my food addiction, keeps me away from my trigger foods, and allows me to truly listen to my body and tell when i'm actually hungry or just wanting to eat to eat. It's great to be able to stop eating when i'm full and actually leave food on the plate! With my trigger foods: fried foods mostly, french fries, things like that- i always felt "compelled" to eat the rest, even if it made me so stuffed i felt sick!
  • alc649alc649 Posts: 445Member Member Posts: 445Member Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    alc649 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    It's good if it helps you stay compliant, eliminate trigger foods, helps you form better relationships with foods and helps you long term to meeting a good weight.

    It sucks if you struggle with diets that are super restrictive, and enjoy and are satiated by healthy carb sources likes fruits/veggies/starches.

    This! I've only been doing keto for the past 2 weeks, but it helps me with my food addiction, keeps me away from my trigger foods, and allows me to truly listen to my body and tell when i'm actually hungry or just wanting to eat to eat. It's great to be able to stop eating when i'm full and actually leave food on the plate! With my trigger foods: fried foods mostly, french fries, things like that- i always felt "compelled" to eat the rest, even if it made me so stuffed i felt sick!

    It's interesting how often (as here) trigger foods are perceived as "carbs" but really are carbs + fat, often about half and half. Fried foods are inherently high fat, not inherently "carbs" although they can be also high in carbs if they are potatoes (fries are about half and half fat and carbs) or you add breading.

    Anyway, that aside, I agree keto can be a satiating way to eat (as can just plain low carb or for some ignoring macros and focusing on what they feel satisfies them). Low fat also can (lots of people who can't stop eating fries or burgers have no issue with vegetables, plain potatoes, fish or leaner cuts of protein), but low carb is more likely to feel like you can still eat lots of indulgent foods on it, so it's not hard, for lots of people who do really like fat or meat.

    Interestingly, plain potatoes typically score as about the highest satiety per calorie score, where's fried potatoes (particularly fries) or other combinations of potatoes plus fat (mashed potatoes with cream and butter) score much lower.

    Anyway, others may feel much more indulgent on a lower fat, higher fat, but nutrient dense diet, and so find that more enjoyable and easier to stick to.

    I think everyone's trigger foods can be different :)
  • SparkyJess3SparkyJess3 Posts: 618Member Member Posts: 618Member Member
    Keto is the only way of eating that has worked for me. I feel so much better when I am on it. More energy, not sluggish, no bloat or inflammation, no brain fog! So many people state that you will instantly gain weight back when cycling off, but I maintained over a 20 pound loss for over a year. I'm cycling back on now to lose my last 20 pounds.

    I stay under 20g net carbs a day, but I still eat fruits and veggies. I just fit them into my macros. I stick to the berry family as they are lower in fructose and I eat mostly green leafy veggies. So many people jump to the conclusion that keto is unhealthy because they see people eating bacon constantly. I do eat bacon, but it is not daily! Try sticking to healthier fats like avocado, nuts and coconut oil.
  • GottaBurnEmAllGottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,511Member Member Posts: 7,511Member Member
    alc649 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    alc649 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    It's good if it helps you stay compliant, eliminate trigger foods, helps you form better relationships with foods and helps you long term to meeting a good weight.

    It sucks if you struggle with diets that are super restrictive, and enjoy and are satiated by healthy carb sources likes fruits/veggies/starches.

    This! I've only been doing keto for the past 2 weeks, but it helps me with my food addiction, keeps me away from my trigger foods, and allows me to truly listen to my body and tell when i'm actually hungry or just wanting to eat to eat. It's great to be able to stop eating when i'm full and actually leave food on the plate! With my trigger foods: fried foods mostly, french fries, things like that- i always felt "compelled" to eat the rest, even if it made me so stuffed i felt sick!

    It's interesting how often (as here) trigger foods are perceived as "carbs" but really are carbs + fat, often about half and half. Fried foods are inherently high fat, not inherently "carbs" although they can be also high in carbs if they are potatoes (fries are about half and half fat and carbs) or you add breading.

    Anyway, that aside, I agree keto can be a satiating way to eat (as can just plain low carb or for some ignoring macros and focusing on what they feel satisfies them). Low fat also can (lots of people who can't stop eating fries or burgers have no issue with vegetables, plain potatoes, fish or leaner cuts of protein), but low carb is more likely to feel like you can still eat lots of indulgent foods on it, so it's not hard, for lots of people who do really like fat or meat.

    Interestingly, plain potatoes typically score as about the highest satiety per calorie score, where's fried potatoes (particularly fries) or other combinations of potatoes plus fat (mashed potatoes with cream and butter) score much lower.

    Anyway, others may feel much more indulgent on a lower fat, higher fat, but nutrient dense diet, and so find that more enjoyable and easier to stick to.

    I think everyone's trigger foods can be different :)

    This is true, but I think we can eliminate broccoli, carrots, califlower, beans, apples, pears, oranges, zucchini,....... Most "trigger" foods do fall into categories. After years on the boards you see people always posting about the same handful of things that they can't control eating...and strangely, it's not bags of sugar either.

    I do have a trigger food that's in the category you list: roasted chickpeas. I completely lack self control with them. They don't have to have lots of fat with them, so it wasn't about that either. In fact, my favorite brand was very low fat. It's the salt and crunch factor.

    I have to be careful when I have chickpeas in the house not to give in to the temptation to roast up some for myself outside of using them for meals. It's that bad. I went through a long stretch of not eating them at all.

    Saying all this, I'm making a Moroccon butternut and chickpea stew for dinner tonight, and can hardly wait for it!
  • janejellyrolljanejellyroll Posts: 19,737Member Member Posts: 19,737Member Member
    alc649 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    alc649 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    It's good if it helps you stay compliant, eliminate trigger foods, helps you form better relationships with foods and helps you long term to meeting a good weight.

    It sucks if you struggle with diets that are super restrictive, and enjoy and are satiated by healthy carb sources likes fruits/veggies/starches.

    This! I've only been doing keto for the past 2 weeks, but it helps me with my food addiction, keeps me away from my trigger foods, and allows me to truly listen to my body and tell when i'm actually hungry or just wanting to eat to eat. It's great to be able to stop eating when i'm full and actually leave food on the plate! With my trigger foods: fried foods mostly, french fries, things like that- i always felt "compelled" to eat the rest, even if it made me so stuffed i felt sick!

    It's interesting how often (as here) trigger foods are perceived as "carbs" but really are carbs + fat, often about half and half. Fried foods are inherently high fat, not inherently "carbs" although they can be also high in carbs if they are potatoes (fries are about half and half fat and carbs) or you add breading.

    Anyway, that aside, I agree keto can be a satiating way to eat (as can just plain low carb or for some ignoring macros and focusing on what they feel satisfies them). Low fat also can (lots of people who can't stop eating fries or burgers have no issue with vegetables, plain potatoes, fish or leaner cuts of protein), but low carb is more likely to feel like you can still eat lots of indulgent foods on it, so it's not hard, for lots of people who do really like fat or meat.

    Interestingly, plain potatoes typically score as about the highest satiety per calorie score, where's fried potatoes (particularly fries) or other combinations of potatoes plus fat (mashed potatoes with cream and butter) score much lower.

    Anyway, others may feel much more indulgent on a lower fat, higher fat, but nutrient dense diet, and so find that more enjoyable and easier to stick to.

    I think everyone's trigger foods can be different :)

    This is true, but I think we can eliminate broccoli, carrots, califlower, beans, apples, pears, oranges, zucchini,....... Most "trigger" foods do fall into categories. After years on the boards you see people always posting about the same handful of things that they can't control eating...and strangely, it's not bags of sugar either.

    I do have a trigger food that's in the category you list: roasted chickpeas. I completely lack self control with them. They don't have to have lots of fat with them, so it wasn't about that either. In fact, my favorite brand was very low fat. It's the salt and crunch factor.

    I have to be careful when I have chickpeas in the house not to give in to the temptation to roast up some for myself outside of using them for meals. It's that bad. I went through a long stretch of not eating them at all.

    Saying all this, I'm making a Moroccon butternut and chickpea stew for dinner tonight, and can hardly wait for it!

    I could easily eat several hundred calories of low-fat refried beans, straight from the can. Most of my trigger foods are higher in fat, but for some reason it's just hard for me to stop eating refried beans.
  • GottaBurnEmAllGottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,511Member Member Posts: 7,511Member Member
    alc649 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    alc649 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    It's good if it helps you stay compliant, eliminate trigger foods, helps you form better relationships with foods and helps you long term to meeting a good weight.

    It sucks if you struggle with diets that are super restrictive, and enjoy and are satiated by healthy carb sources likes fruits/veggies/starches.

    This! I've only been doing keto for the past 2 weeks, but it helps me with my food addiction, keeps me away from my trigger foods, and allows me to truly listen to my body and tell when i'm actually hungry or just wanting to eat to eat. It's great to be able to stop eating when i'm full and actually leave food on the plate! With my trigger foods: fried foods mostly, french fries, things like that- i always felt "compelled" to eat the rest, even if it made me so stuffed i felt sick!

    It's interesting how often (as here) trigger foods are perceived as "carbs" but really are carbs + fat, often about half and half. Fried foods are inherently high fat, not inherently "carbs" although they can be also high in carbs if they are potatoes (fries are about half and half fat and carbs) or you add breading.

    Anyway, that aside, I agree keto can be a satiating way to eat (as can just plain low carb or for some ignoring macros and focusing on what they feel satisfies them). Low fat also can (lots of people who can't stop eating fries or burgers have no issue with vegetables, plain potatoes, fish or leaner cuts of protein), but low carb is more likely to feel like you can still eat lots of indulgent foods on it, so it's not hard, for lots of people who do really like fat or meat.

    Interestingly, plain potatoes typically score as about the highest satiety per calorie score, where's fried potatoes (particularly fries) or other combinations of potatoes plus fat (mashed potatoes with cream and butter) score much lower.

    Anyway, others may feel much more indulgent on a lower fat, higher fat, but nutrient dense diet, and so find that more enjoyable and easier to stick to.

    I think everyone's trigger foods can be different :)

    This is true, but I think we can eliminate broccoli, carrots, califlower, beans, apples, pears, oranges, zucchini,....... Most "trigger" foods do fall into categories. After years on the boards you see people always posting about the same handful of things that they can't control eating...and strangely, it's not bags of sugar either.

    I do have a trigger food that's in the category you list: roasted chickpeas. I completely lack self control with them. They don't have to have lots of fat with them, so it wasn't about that either. In fact, my favorite brand was very low fat. It's the salt and crunch factor.

    I have to be careful when I have chickpeas in the house not to give in to the temptation to roast up some for myself outside of using them for meals. It's that bad. I went through a long stretch of not eating them at all.

    Saying all this, I'm making a Moroccon butternut and chickpea stew for dinner tonight, and can hardly wait for it!

    I could easily eat several hundred calories of low-fat refried beans, straight from the can. Most of my trigger foods are higher in fat, but for some reason it's just hard for me to stop eating refried beans.

    Oh, those too. They're EBIL! It's that creamy texture.
  • janejellyrolljanejellyroll Posts: 19,737Member Member Posts: 19,737Member Member
    alc649 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    alc649 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    It's good if it helps you stay compliant, eliminate trigger foods, helps you form better relationships with foods and helps you long term to meeting a good weight.

    It sucks if you struggle with diets that are super restrictive, and enjoy and are satiated by healthy carb sources likes fruits/veggies/starches.

    This! I've only been doing keto for the past 2 weeks, but it helps me with my food addiction, keeps me away from my trigger foods, and allows me to truly listen to my body and tell when i'm actually hungry or just wanting to eat to eat. It's great to be able to stop eating when i'm full and actually leave food on the plate! With my trigger foods: fried foods mostly, french fries, things like that- i always felt "compelled" to eat the rest, even if it made me so stuffed i felt sick!

    It's interesting how often (as here) trigger foods are perceived as "carbs" but really are carbs + fat, often about half and half. Fried foods are inherently high fat, not inherently "carbs" although they can be also high in carbs if they are potatoes (fries are about half and half fat and carbs) or you add breading.

    Anyway, that aside, I agree keto can be a satiating way to eat (as can just plain low carb or for some ignoring macros and focusing on what they feel satisfies them). Low fat also can (lots of people who can't stop eating fries or burgers have no issue with vegetables, plain potatoes, fish or leaner cuts of protein), but low carb is more likely to feel like you can still eat lots of indulgent foods on it, so it's not hard, for lots of people who do really like fat or meat.

    Interestingly, plain potatoes typically score as about the highest satiety per calorie score, where's fried potatoes (particularly fries) or other combinations of potatoes plus fat (mashed potatoes with cream and butter) score much lower.

    Anyway, others may feel much more indulgent on a lower fat, higher fat, but nutrient dense diet, and so find that more enjoyable and easier to stick to.

    I think everyone's trigger foods can be different :)

    This is true, but I think we can eliminate broccoli, carrots, califlower, beans, apples, pears, oranges, zucchini,....... Most "trigger" foods do fall into categories. After years on the boards you see people always posting about the same handful of things that they can't control eating...and strangely, it's not bags of sugar either.

    I do have a trigger food that's in the category you list: roasted chickpeas. I completely lack self control with them. They don't have to have lots of fat with them, so it wasn't about that either. In fact, my favorite brand was very low fat. It's the salt and crunch factor.

    I have to be careful when I have chickpeas in the house not to give in to the temptation to roast up some for myself outside of using them for meals. It's that bad. I went through a long stretch of not eating them at all.

    Saying all this, I'm making a Moroccon butternut and chickpea stew for dinner tonight, and can hardly wait for it!

    I could easily eat several hundred calories of low-fat refried beans, straight from the can. Most of my trigger foods are higher in fat, but for some reason it's just hard for me to stop eating refried beans.

    Oh, those too. They're EBIL! It's that creamy texture.

    Yeah, I don't have the same problem with my homemade ones. I really enjoy them, but they don't prompt that "MUST KEEP EATING" urge.
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