Switching to veggie for health benefits
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amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm not 100% vegetarian, but I eat far less meat than the average omnivore because I don't like it all that much. I eat more meat now because I find it hard to eat enough protein without animal sources. I was morbidly obese and the top 5 contributors to my calories were 100% plant based (and no, not ultra processed "junk"). Calorie dense foods that are easy to overeat exist in every single diet.
If you think "eating more vegetables" will help you control your weight, you can do that on the vast majority of diets without going full on vegetarian.
"How Not to Die" is one of the most overreaching books I have ever read. Cherry picks, extrapolates results that aren't there, makes up stuff, all in order to say "animal based foods are the source of every human ailment".
To OP:
When you relax your eating, do you eat more fat? Do you eat a bigger volume? When you restrict, do you eat too few calories?
If you don't think you are getting enough protein as a Vegan, then you may not be eating right. Are you getting in Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Pea Protein, etc? You can easily get protein being Vegan. Just an fyi...0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm not 100% vegetarian, but I eat far less meat than the average omnivore because I don't like it all that much. I eat more meat now because I find it hard to eat enough protein without animal sources. I was morbidly obese and the top 5 contributors to my calories were 100% plant based (and no, not ultra processed "junk"). Calorie dense foods that are easy to overeat exist in every single diet.
If you think "eating more vegetables" will help you control your weight, you can do that on the vast majority of diets without going full on vegetarian.
"How Not to Die" is one of the most overreaching books I have ever read. Cherry picks, extrapolates results that aren't there, makes up stuff, all in order to say "animal based foods are the source of every human ailment".
To OP:
When you relax your eating, do you eat more fat? Do you eat a bigger volume? When you restrict, do you eat too few calories?
If you don't think you are getting enough protein as a Vegan, then you may not be eating right. Are you getting in Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Pea Protein, etc? You can easily get protein being Vegan. Just an fyi...
I know I can, but it's not the most efficient way for me. Most of my calories would need to be dedicated to protein given that the highest source of plant protein I have is beans. I eat them, but I also like eating other things. Getting protein from animal sources gets it out of the way and allows me to eat whatever I want beyond that.7 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm not 100% vegetarian, but I eat far less meat than the average omnivore because I don't like it all that much. I eat more meat now because I find it hard to eat enough protein without animal sources. I was morbidly obese and the top 5 contributors to my calories were 100% plant based (and no, not ultra processed "junk"). Calorie dense foods that are easy to overeat exist in every single diet.
If you think "eating more vegetables" will help you control your weight, you can do that on the vast majority of diets without going full on vegetarian.
"How Not to Die" is one of the most overreaching books I have ever read. Cherry picks, extrapolates results that aren't there, makes up stuff, all in order to say "animal based foods are the source of every human ailment".
To OP:
When you relax your eating, do you eat more fat? Do you eat a bigger volume? When you restrict, do you eat too few calories?
If you don't think you are getting enough protein as a Vegan, then you may not be eating right. Are you getting in Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Pea Protein, etc? You can easily get protein being Vegan. Just an fyi...
I know I can, but it's not the most efficient way for me. Most of my calories would need to be dedicated to protein given that the highest source of plant protein I have is beans. I eat them, but I also like eating other things. Getting protein from animal sources gets it out of the way and allows me to eat whatever I want beyond that.
What exactly are you trying to do, gain muscle? lose weight? what do you weigh and how much protein are you trying to get?1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »asliceofjackie wrote: »grinning_chick wrote: »Plenty of overweight to obese vegetarians and vegans in the world. As such the idea they lead to better health and well-being, and the common implication of those words mean, is incorrect.
Do you have any statistics and/or source?
My personal experience is that vegetarians and vegans are way underrepresented in terms of being overweight or obese (not counting those who are overweight and obese and go vegan after to stifle it, which will skew the numbers). Losing weight is all about creating a calorie deficit, and going vegetarian/vegan is an easy way to change your diet in a direction that will almost naturally create a calorie deficit due to the low calorier/volume ratio of vegetarian food.
I'll agree with you though, most vegetarians and definitely most vegans I meet do it for ethical reasons.
This is really not true, especially for vegetarians. Meat in and of itself isn't necessarily high cal at all, and some can be quite low cal (shrimp, white fish, turkey or chicken breast, among others). Many also find protein filling. Most of the foods that bump up my cals, traditionally, are perfectly vegetarian, including cheese, olive oil, and the many starchy foods that can be easily overeaten by many, especially when combined with some kind of fat. It's not difficult to find vegetarian sweets either.
For vegan, I think it's more true, although it's not that tough to find substitutes. Since I love dairy (including cheese), it does naturally force me to eat lower cal, and if you are focused on eating sufficient protein, that takes more cals and might tend to push you toward more filling choices and naturally cut calories (whole grains and beans and lentils and the like vs. more refined options). It also just makes it hard to impulse eat, since so often available choices won't be vegan. A friend of mine is, and we usually have to go to a place that is intentionally vegan or vegan friendly for there to be a dessert option available at a restaurant or cafe, and it's much harder to find vegan options than veg in general (I'm not a vegetarian but I have been at times in the past, and I've eaten 100% plant-based for periods of time).
I think vegans (and maybe vegetarian) are less likely to be overweight (to the extent that's true -- IME, it's likely true with vegans and I'm more skeptical about vegetarians), because they are more likely to be health conscious on average and, especially, because it's harder to eat completely mindlessly and you may lack high cal options unless you actually cook it yourself in many cases.
For what it's worth, the first time I tried eating 100% plant-based (it was for Lent one year), I did lose weight without trying. Every time since then I don't, I maintain and don't find it easier than when eating meat.
Anyway, I guess this gets me back to the question -- not personally, no. I respect eating vegetarian for ethical reasons, but I've never felt particularly better or worse doing it. I've never really had symptoms related to what I eat, however, and I eat lots of vegetables whether veg or not. My sister had a lot of issues with IBS when younger, and for her finding the trigger foods was crucial, but they were all vegetarian -- certain raw veg (cruciferous veg) that she can have cooked, avocado, and melon. Some people have issues with dairy, that's a common one, but again vegetarian although not vegan.
The thing about veganism (in my experience) is that you're cutting down a lot of opportunities for eating (the cookies a co-worker brings into work, adding dessert to your dinner at most restaurants, etc), but it's not that difficult to still eat excess calories either due to making stuff yourself or (for many people now) through specially made vegan options. I had absolutely zero problems becoming overweight as a vegan, it was attention to calories that reversed that.
So reducing impulse eating, there is certainly an impact. If I want, say, a milkshake, it's going to take a bit more effort than it would if I was non-vegan. So many times, I'm just going to skip it. But veganism isn't going to do anything to stop me from taking extra servings of dinner or doubling my french fry order when I'm going out to eat. I've still got to do that myself.
Yeah, that's basically what I was thinking. It's not that vegan food isn't high cal; there are plenty of examples of high cal vegan food. But the high cal food you happen to get offered or see when stuck at an airport (my life lately!) and the like is unlikely to be vegan, and for those who have in the past fallen into bad habits about that kind of stuff, it can be helpful for a time. But it's still possible to buy a pint of vegan ice cream and eat it all. ;-)
(That said, I ate a stupid amount of salted nuts in the airport not that long ago.)4 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm not 100% vegetarian, but I eat far less meat than the average omnivore because I don't like it all that much. I eat more meat now because I find it hard to eat enough protein without animal sources. I was morbidly obese and the top 5 contributors to my calories were 100% plant based (and no, not ultra processed "junk"). Calorie dense foods that are easy to overeat exist in every single diet.
If you think "eating more vegetables" will help you control your weight, you can do that on the vast majority of diets without going full on vegetarian.
"How Not to Die" is one of the most overreaching books I have ever read. Cherry picks, extrapolates results that aren't there, makes up stuff, all in order to say "animal based foods are the source of every human ailment".
To OP:
When you relax your eating, do you eat more fat? Do you eat a bigger volume? When you restrict, do you eat too few calories?
If you don't think you are getting enough protein as a Vegan, then you may not be eating right. Are you getting in Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Pea Protein, etc? You can easily get protein being Vegan. Just an fyi...
I know I can, but it's not the most efficient way for me. Most of my calories would need to be dedicated to protein given that the highest source of plant protein I have is beans. I eat them, but I also like eating other things. Getting protein from animal sources gets it out of the way and allows me to eat whatever I want beyond that.
What exactly are you trying to do, gain muscle? lose weight? what do you weigh and how much protein are you trying to get?
Lose weight while maintaining muscle. My allowance is not that high compared to recommendations. I'm even slightly lower than I need to be for sustainability reasons. I try to eat at least 80 grams of it daily. Even with a good serving of beans, I don't get anywhere near that unless I have multiple servings of plant proteins, and I don't feel like eating beans every day. A typical day for me without focusing on protein ends up at about 40 grams at most.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm not 100% vegetarian, but I eat far less meat than the average omnivore because I don't like it all that much. I eat more meat now because I find it hard to eat enough protein without animal sources. I was morbidly obese and the top 5 contributors to my calories were 100% plant based (and no, not ultra processed "junk"). Calorie dense foods that are easy to overeat exist in every single diet.
If you think "eating more vegetables" will help you control your weight, you can do that on the vast majority of diets without going full on vegetarian.
"How Not to Die" is one of the most overreaching books I have ever read. Cherry picks, extrapolates results that aren't there, makes up stuff, all in order to say "animal based foods are the source of every human ailment".
To OP:
When you relax your eating, do you eat more fat? Do you eat a bigger volume? When you restrict, do you eat too few calories?
If you don't think you are getting enough protein as a Vegan, then you may not be eating right. Are you getting in Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Pea Protein, etc? You can easily get protein being Vegan. Just an fyi...
I know I can, but it's not the most efficient way for me. Most of my calories would need to be dedicated to protein given that the highest source of plant protein I have is beans. I eat them, but I also like eating other things. Getting protein from animal sources gets it out of the way and allows me to eat whatever I want beyond that.
What exactly are you trying to do, gain muscle? lose weight? what do you weigh and how much protein are you trying to get?
Lose weight while maintaining muscle. My allowance is not that high compared to recommendations. I'm even slightly lower than I need to be for sustainability reasons. I try to eat at least 80 grams of it daily. Even with a good serving of beans, I don't get anywhere near that unless I have multiple servings of plant proteins, and I don't feel like eating beans every day. A typical day for me without focusing on protein ends up at about 40 grams at most.
I make up a 10 serving meal in my instant pot every week, with Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Brown Rice, Tofu, Veggies, Veg Broth, and spices. It usually has about 40g+ of carbs, around 10g or less of fat, and a little over 30g protein per server. I eat one of those per day. I also have 1 smoothie per day with 2 scoops of plant protein with strawberries and bananas, which has a little over 40g protein in it.
Just those 2 alone, put me close to 80g protein, please other stuff I eat during the day. I find it very easy doing this to get a little over 100g protein per day, I shoot for 120g and I'm 190 lbs.
I have been losing weight and gaining a little bit of muscle and strength.1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm not 100% vegetarian, but I eat far less meat than the average omnivore because I don't like it all that much. I eat more meat now because I find it hard to eat enough protein without animal sources. I was morbidly obese and the top 5 contributors to my calories were 100% plant based (and no, not ultra processed "junk"). Calorie dense foods that are easy to overeat exist in every single diet.
If you think "eating more vegetables" will help you control your weight, you can do that on the vast majority of diets without going full on vegetarian.
"How Not to Die" is one of the most overreaching books I have ever read. Cherry picks, extrapolates results that aren't there, makes up stuff, all in order to say "animal based foods are the source of every human ailment".
To OP:
When you relax your eating, do you eat more fat? Do you eat a bigger volume? When you restrict, do you eat too few calories?
If you don't think you are getting enough protein as a Vegan, then you may not be eating right. Are you getting in Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Pea Protein, etc? You can easily get protein being Vegan. Just an fyi...
I know I can, but it's not the most efficient way for me. Most of my calories would need to be dedicated to protein given that the highest source of plant protein I have is beans. I eat them, but I also like eating other things. Getting protein from animal sources gets it out of the way and allows me to eat whatever I want beyond that.
What exactly are you trying to do, gain muscle? lose weight? what do you weigh and how much protein are you trying to get?
Lose weight while maintaining muscle. My allowance is not that high compared to recommendations. I'm even slightly lower than I need to be for sustainability reasons. I try to eat at least 80 grams of it daily. Even with a good serving of beans, I don't get anywhere near that unless I have multiple servings of plant proteins, and I don't feel like eating beans every day. A typical day for me without focusing on protein ends up at about 40 grams at most.
I make up a 10 serving meal in my instant pot every week, with Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Brown Rice, Tofu, Veggies, Veg Broth, and spices. It usually has about 40g+ of carbs, around 10g or less of fat, and a little over 30g protein per server. I eat one of those per day. I also have 1 smoothie per day with 2 scoops of plant protein with strawberries and bananas, which has a little over 40g protein in it.
Just those 2 alone, put me close to 80g protein, please other stuff I eat during the day. I find it very easy doing this to get a little over 100g protein per day, I shoot for 120g and I'm 190 lbs.
I have been losing weight and gaining a little bit of muscle and strength.
It's good that you found what works for you. A diet focused on protein is not sustainable for me, let alone one that needs extra effort to achieve. I don't see myself dedicating time, effort, and calories to something that I can get easily elsewhere. As I said, the highest source of plant protein I have access to is kidney beans. That's 1200 calories for 80 grams. I do much better eating whatever I have an appetite for. I tried a protein focused diet in the beginning and it was too stressful and not sustainable at all. I basically eat whatever, while incorporating protein wherever I can without stressing too much about it, then by the end of the day if I need more I'll just open a can of tuna, boil half a chicken breast, or have a protein shake.7 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm not 100% vegetarian, but I eat far less meat than the average omnivore because I don't like it all that much. I eat more meat now because I find it hard to eat enough protein without animal sources. I was morbidly obese and the top 5 contributors to my calories were 100% plant based (and no, not ultra processed "junk"). Calorie dense foods that are easy to overeat exist in every single diet.
If you think "eating more vegetables" will help you control your weight, you can do that on the vast majority of diets without going full on vegetarian.
"How Not to Die" is one of the most overreaching books I have ever read. Cherry picks, extrapolates results that aren't there, makes up stuff, all in order to say "animal based foods are the source of every human ailment".
To OP:
When you relax your eating, do you eat more fat? Do you eat a bigger volume? When you restrict, do you eat too few calories?
If you don't think you are getting enough protein as a Vegan, then you may not be eating right. Are you getting in Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Pea Protein, etc? You can easily get protein being Vegan. Just an fyi...
I know I can, but it's not the most efficient way for me. Most of my calories would need to be dedicated to protein given that the highest source of plant protein I have is beans. I eat them, but I also like eating other things. Getting protein from animal sources gets it out of the way and allows me to eat whatever I want beyond that.
What exactly are you trying to do, gain muscle? lose weight? what do you weigh and how much protein are you trying to get?
Lose weight while maintaining muscle. My allowance is not that high compared to recommendations. I'm even slightly lower than I need to be for sustainability reasons. I try to eat at least 80 grams of it daily. Even with a good serving of beans, I don't get anywhere near that unless I have multiple servings of plant proteins, and I don't feel like eating beans every day. A typical day for me without focusing on protein ends up at about 40 grams at most.
I make up a 10 serving meal in my instant pot every week, with Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Brown Rice, Tofu, Veggies, Veg Broth, and spices. It usually has about 40g+ of carbs, around 10g or less of fat, and a little over 30g protein per server. I eat one of those per day. I also have 1 smoothie per day with 2 scoops of plant protein with strawberries and bananas, which has a little over 40g protein in it.
Just those 2 alone, put me close to 80g protein, please other stuff I eat during the day. I find it very easy doing this to get a little over 100g protein per day, I shoot for 120g and I'm 190 lbs.
I have been losing weight and gaining a little bit of muscle and strength.
It's good that you found what works for you. A diet focused on protein is not sustainable for me, let alone one that needs extra effort to achieve. I don't see myself dedicating time, effort, and calories to something that I can get easily elsewhere. As I said, the highest source of plant protein I have access to is kidney beans. That's 1200 calories for 80 grams. I do much better eating whatever I have an appetite for. I tried a protein focused diet in the beginning and it was too stressful and not sustainable at all. I basically eat whatever, while incorporating protein wherever I can without stressing too much about it, then by the end of the day if I need more I'll just open a can of tuna, boil half a chicken breast, or have a protein shake.
I don't focus my diet on protein, I was just letting you know how I get it easily. I have been eating 100% plant based for a little over 2 months now. As far as dedicating time, the meal I make in the instant pot, takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to prep, then I let it go for 30 minutes in the instant pot, i then turn it off and let it sit for another 30 minutes. I add all the ingredients and create a meal in my fitness pal, and then weigh the entire meal which usually comes out to 4000 - 4500 grams total. I then divide that by 10, and put it into contains to make it easier to log and eat. So for about 30 minutes of work every 7 - 10 days, that takes care of 10 serving pretty easy.
The smoothie I make every day takes me about 5 minutes to make, plus another couple of minutes rinsing out the blender.
I used to eat meat and always followed the myth of around 0.8 - 1g+ of protein per pound of body weight. After doing a lot more research about being Vegan and protein, I have dropped that down to about 0.5 - 0.6g per lb of body weight. I am still maintaining strength and muscle doing this, and losing about 0.5 lbs of weight per week.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm not 100% vegetarian, but I eat far less meat than the average omnivore because I don't like it all that much. I eat more meat now because I find it hard to eat enough protein without animal sources. I was morbidly obese and the top 5 contributors to my calories were 100% plant based (and no, not ultra processed "junk"). Calorie dense foods that are easy to overeat exist in every single diet.
If you think "eating more vegetables" will help you control your weight, you can do that on the vast majority of diets without going full on vegetarian.
"How Not to Die" is one of the most overreaching books I have ever read. Cherry picks, extrapolates results that aren't there, makes up stuff, all in order to say "animal based foods are the source of every human ailment".
To OP:
When you relax your eating, do you eat more fat? Do you eat a bigger volume? When you restrict, do you eat too few calories?
If you don't think you are getting enough protein as a Vegan, then you may not be eating right. Are you getting in Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Pea Protein, etc? You can easily get protein being Vegan. Just an fyi...
I know I can, but it's not the most efficient way for me. Most of my calories would need to be dedicated to protein given that the highest source of plant protein I have is beans. I eat them, but I also like eating other things. Getting protein from animal sources gets it out of the way and allows me to eat whatever I want beyond that.
What exactly are you trying to do, gain muscle? lose weight? what do you weigh and how much protein are you trying to get?
Lose weight while maintaining muscle. My allowance is not that high compared to recommendations. I'm even slightly lower than I need to be for sustainability reasons. I try to eat at least 80 grams of it daily. Even with a good serving of beans, I don't get anywhere near that unless I have multiple servings of plant proteins, and I don't feel like eating beans every day. A typical day for me without focusing on protein ends up at about 40 grams at most.
I make up a 10 serving meal in my instant pot every week, with Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Brown Rice, Tofu, Veggies, Veg Broth, and spices. It usually has about 40g+ of carbs, around 10g or less of fat, and a little over 30g protein per server. I eat one of those per day. I also have 1 smoothie per day with 2 scoops of plant protein with strawberries and bananas, which has a little over 40g protein in it.
Just those 2 alone, put me close to 80g protein, please other stuff I eat during the day. I find it very easy doing this to get a little over 100g protein per day, I shoot for 120g and I'm 190 lbs.
I have been losing weight and gaining a little bit of muscle and strength.
It's good that you found what works for you. A diet focused on protein is not sustainable for me, let alone one that needs extra effort to achieve. I don't see myself dedicating time, effort, and calories to something that I can get easily elsewhere. As I said, the highest source of plant protein I have access to is kidney beans. That's 1200 calories for 80 grams. I do much better eating whatever I have an appetite for. I tried a protein focused diet in the beginning and it was too stressful and not sustainable at all. I basically eat whatever, while incorporating protein wherever I can without stressing too much about it, then by the end of the day if I need more I'll just open a can of tuna, boil half a chicken breast, or have a protein shake.
I don't focus my diet on protein, I was just letting you know how I get it easily. I have been eating 100% plant based for a little over 2 months now. As far as dedicating time, the meal I make in the instant pot, takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to prep, then I let it go for 30 minutes in the instant pot, i then turn it off and let it sit for another 30 minutes. I add all the ingredients and create a meal in my fitness pal, and then weigh the entire meal which usually comes out to 4000 - 4500 grams total. I then divide that by 10, and put it into contains to make it easier to log and eat. So for about 30 minutes of work every 7 - 10 days, that takes care of 10 serving pretty easy.
The smoothie I make every day takes me about 5 minutes to make, plus another couple of minutes rinsing out the blender.
I used to eat meat and always followed the myth of around 0.8 - 1g+ of protein per pound of body weight. After doing a lot more research about being Vegan and protein, I have dropped that down to about 0.5 - 0.6g per lb of body weight. I am still maintaining strength and muscle doing this, and losing about 0.5 lbs of weight per week.
Effortless for you, not for me. Trying to force myself to eat beans (as much as I love them) when what I really want is cabbage and potatoes is a losing fair. Preparing something to eat every day of the week is a recipe for rebellion in my case because I will almost certainly reach for something else no matter how much I love that meal. By time, I mean time spent obsessing about protein, because that's what I tend to do.
I'm just saying that just because something is doable (even easily doable for some people), doesn't mean it's a good strategy for everyone.7 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm not 100% vegetarian, but I eat far less meat than the average omnivore because I don't like it all that much. I eat more meat now because I find it hard to eat enough protein without animal sources. I was morbidly obese and the top 5 contributors to my calories were 100% plant based (and no, not ultra processed "junk"). Calorie dense foods that are easy to overeat exist in every single diet.
If you think "eating more vegetables" will help you control your weight, you can do that on the vast majority of diets without going full on vegetarian.
"How Not to Die" is one of the most overreaching books I have ever read. Cherry picks, extrapolates results that aren't there, makes up stuff, all in order to say "animal based foods are the source of every human ailment".
To OP:
When you relax your eating, do you eat more fat? Do you eat a bigger volume? When you restrict, do you eat too few calories?
If you don't think you are getting enough protein as a Vegan, then you may not be eating right. Are you getting in Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Pea Protein, etc? You can easily get protein being Vegan. Just an fyi...
I know I can, but it's not the most efficient way for me. Most of my calories would need to be dedicated to protein given that the highest source of plant protein I have is beans. I eat them, but I also like eating other things. Getting protein from animal sources gets it out of the way and allows me to eat whatever I want beyond that.
What exactly are you trying to do, gain muscle? lose weight? what do you weigh and how much protein are you trying to get?
Lose weight while maintaining muscle. My allowance is not that high compared to recommendations. I'm even slightly lower than I need to be for sustainability reasons. I try to eat at least 80 grams of it daily. Even with a good serving of beans, I don't get anywhere near that unless I have multiple servings of plant proteins, and I don't feel like eating beans every day. A typical day for me without focusing on protein ends up at about 40 grams at most.
I make up a 10 serving meal in my instant pot every week, with Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Brown Rice, Tofu, Veggies, Veg Broth, and spices. It usually has about 40g+ of carbs, around 10g or less of fat, and a little over 30g protein per server. I eat one of those per day. I also have 1 smoothie per day with 2 scoops of plant protein with strawberries and bananas, which has a little over 40g protein in it.
Just those 2 alone, put me close to 80g protein, please other stuff I eat during the day. I find it very easy doing this to get a little over 100g protein per day, I shoot for 120g and I'm 190 lbs.
I have been losing weight and gaining a little bit of muscle and strength.
It's good that you found what works for you. A diet focused on protein is not sustainable for me, let alone one that needs extra effort to achieve. I don't see myself dedicating time, effort, and calories to something that I can get easily elsewhere. As I said, the highest source of plant protein I have access to is kidney beans. That's 1200 calories for 80 grams. I do much better eating whatever I have an appetite for. I tried a protein focused diet in the beginning and it was too stressful and not sustainable at all. I basically eat whatever, while incorporating protein wherever I can without stressing too much about it, then by the end of the day if I need more I'll just open a can of tuna, boil half a chicken breast, or have a protein shake.
I don't focus my diet on protein, I was just letting you know how I get it easily. I have been eating 100% plant based for a little over 2 months now. As far as dedicating time, the meal I make in the instant pot, takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to prep, then I let it go for 30 minutes in the instant pot, i then turn it off and let it sit for another 30 minutes. I add all the ingredients and create a meal in my fitness pal, and then weigh the entire meal which usually comes out to 4000 - 4500 grams total. I then divide that by 10, and put it into contains to make it easier to log and eat. So for about 30 minutes of work every 7 - 10 days, that takes care of 10 serving pretty easy.
The smoothie I make every day takes me about 5 minutes to make, plus another couple of minutes rinsing out the blender.
I used to eat meat and always followed the myth of around 0.8 - 1g+ of protein per pound of body weight. After doing a lot more research about being Vegan and protein, I have dropped that down to about 0.5 - 0.6g per lb of body weight. I am still maintaining strength and muscle doing this, and losing about 0.5 lbs of weight per week.
Effortless for you, not for me. Trying to force myself to eat beans (as much as I love them) when what I really want is cabbage and potatoes is a losing fair. Preparing something to eat every day of the week is a recipe for rebellion in my case because I will almost certainly reach for something else no matter how much I love that meal. By time, I mean time spent obsessing about protein, because that's what I tend to do.
I'm just saying that just because something is doable (even easily doable for some people), doesn't mean it's a good strategy for everyone.
I give up, good luck.5 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm not 100% vegetarian, but I eat far less meat than the average omnivore because I don't like it all that much. I eat more meat now because I find it hard to eat enough protein without animal sources. I was morbidly obese and the top 5 contributors to my calories were 100% plant based (and no, not ultra processed "junk"). Calorie dense foods that are easy to overeat exist in every single diet.
If you think "eating more vegetables" will help you control your weight, you can do that on the vast majority of diets without going full on vegetarian.
"How Not to Die" is one of the most overreaching books I have ever read. Cherry picks, extrapolates results that aren't there, makes up stuff, all in order to say "animal based foods are the source of every human ailment".
To OP:
When you relax your eating, do you eat more fat? Do you eat a bigger volume? When you restrict, do you eat too few calories?
If you don't think you are getting enough protein as a Vegan, then you may not be eating right. Are you getting in Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Pea Protein, etc? You can easily get protein being Vegan. Just an fyi...
I know I can, but it's not the most efficient way for me. Most of my calories would need to be dedicated to protein given that the highest source of plant protein I have is beans. I eat them, but I also like eating other things. Getting protein from animal sources gets it out of the way and allows me to eat whatever I want beyond that.
What exactly are you trying to do, gain muscle? lose weight? what do you weigh and how much protein are you trying to get?
Lose weight while maintaining muscle. My allowance is not that high compared to recommendations. I'm even slightly lower than I need to be for sustainability reasons. I try to eat at least 80 grams of it daily. Even with a good serving of beans, I don't get anywhere near that unless I have multiple servings of plant proteins, and I don't feel like eating beans every day. A typical day for me without focusing on protein ends up at about 40 grams at most.
I make up a 10 serving meal in my instant pot every week, with Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Brown Rice, Tofu, Veggies, Veg Broth, and spices. It usually has about 40g+ of carbs, around 10g or less of fat, and a little over 30g protein per server. I eat one of those per day. I also have 1 smoothie per day with 2 scoops of plant protein with strawberries and bananas, which has a little over 40g protein in it.
Just those 2 alone, put me close to 80g protein, please other stuff I eat during the day. I find it very easy doing this to get a little over 100g protein per day, I shoot for 120g and I'm 190 lbs.
I have been losing weight and gaining a little bit of muscle and strength.
It's good that you found what works for you. A diet focused on protein is not sustainable for me, let alone one that needs extra effort to achieve. I don't see myself dedicating time, effort, and calories to something that I can get easily elsewhere. As I said, the highest source of plant protein I have access to is kidney beans. That's 1200 calories for 80 grams. I do much better eating whatever I have an appetite for. I tried a protein focused diet in the beginning and it was too stressful and not sustainable at all. I basically eat whatever, while incorporating protein wherever I can without stressing too much about it, then by the end of the day if I need more I'll just open a can of tuna, boil half a chicken breast, or have a protein shake.
I don't focus my diet on protein, I was just letting you know how I get it easily. I have been eating 100% plant based for a little over 2 months now. As far as dedicating time, the meal I make in the instant pot, takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to prep, then I let it go for 30 minutes in the instant pot, i then turn it off and let it sit for another 30 minutes. I add all the ingredients and create a meal in my fitness pal, and then weigh the entire meal which usually comes out to 4000 - 4500 grams total. I then divide that by 10, and put it into contains to make it easier to log and eat. So for about 30 minutes of work every 7 - 10 days, that takes care of 10 serving pretty easy.
The smoothie I make every day takes me about 5 minutes to make, plus another couple of minutes rinsing out the blender.
I used to eat meat and always followed the myth of around 0.8 - 1g+ of protein per pound of body weight. After doing a lot more research about being Vegan and protein, I have dropped that down to about 0.5 - 0.6g per lb of body weight. I am still maintaining strength and muscle doing this, and losing about 0.5 lbs of weight per week.
Effortless for you, not for me. Trying to force myself to eat beans (as much as I love them) when what I really want is cabbage and potatoes is a losing fair. Preparing something to eat every day of the week is a recipe for rebellion in my case because I will almost certainly reach for something else no matter how much I love that meal. By time, I mean time spent obsessing about protein, because that's what I tend to do.
I'm just saying that just because something is doable (even easily doable for some people), doesn't mean it's a good strategy for everyone.
I give up, good luck.
Why do you think she was asking for help? She seems fine with what she does.
(I'd also go nuts eating the same meal every day, and getting 40 g of protein from protein powder is a non-starter for me, although I have been eating frequent smoothies when doing plant-based over Lent. Usually I get protein in the smoothies from silken tofu and nuts and vegetables, which I use in addition to berries and avocado, but I will occasionally use a scoop of pea protein.)
I do find it more difficult to get as much protein as I'd like on 100% plant based, but not particularly so. I don't find having beans or lentils daily, and I'm also fine with tofu and tempeh, which makes it easier. I end up between 70 and 80 grams most days, which isn't a terrible amount for me.8 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm not 100% vegetarian, but I eat far less meat than the average omnivore because I don't like it all that much. I eat more meat now because I find it hard to eat enough protein without animal sources. I was morbidly obese and the top 5 contributors to my calories were 100% plant based (and no, not ultra processed "junk"). Calorie dense foods that are easy to overeat exist in every single diet.
If you think "eating more vegetables" will help you control your weight, you can do that on the vast majority of diets without going full on vegetarian.
"How Not to Die" is one of the most overreaching books I have ever read. Cherry picks, extrapolates results that aren't there, makes up stuff, all in order to say "animal based foods are the source of every human ailment".
To OP:
When you relax your eating, do you eat more fat? Do you eat a bigger volume? When you restrict, do you eat too few calories?
If you don't think you are getting enough protein as a Vegan, then you may not be eating right. Are you getting in Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Pea Protein, etc? You can easily get protein being Vegan. Just an fyi...
I know I can, but it's not the most efficient way for me. Most of my calories would need to be dedicated to protein given that the highest source of plant protein I have is beans. I eat them, but I also like eating other things. Getting protein from animal sources gets it out of the way and allows me to eat whatever I want beyond that.
What exactly are you trying to do, gain muscle? lose weight? what do you weigh and how much protein are you trying to get?
Lose weight while maintaining muscle. My allowance is not that high compared to recommendations. I'm even slightly lower than I need to be for sustainability reasons. I try to eat at least 80 grams of it daily. Even with a good serving of beans, I don't get anywhere near that unless I have multiple servings of plant proteins, and I don't feel like eating beans every day. A typical day for me without focusing on protein ends up at about 40 grams at most.
I make up a 10 serving meal in my instant pot every week, with Quinoa, Lentils, Beans, Brown Rice, Tofu, Veggies, Veg Broth, and spices. It usually has about 40g+ of carbs, around 10g or less of fat, and a little over 30g protein per server. I eat one of those per day. I also have 1 smoothie per day with 2 scoops of plant protein with strawberries and bananas, which has a little over 40g protein in it.
Just those 2 alone, put me close to 80g protein, please other stuff I eat during the day. I find it very easy doing this to get a little over 100g protein per day, I shoot for 120g and I'm 190 lbs.
I have been losing weight and gaining a little bit of muscle and strength.
It's good that you found what works for you. A diet focused on protein is not sustainable for me, let alone one that needs extra effort to achieve. I don't see myself dedicating time, effort, and calories to something that I can get easily elsewhere. As I said, the highest source of plant protein I have access to is kidney beans. That's 1200 calories for 80 grams. I do much better eating whatever I have an appetite for. I tried a protein focused diet in the beginning and it was too stressful and not sustainable at all. I basically eat whatever, while incorporating protein wherever I can without stressing too much about it, then by the end of the day if I need more I'll just open a can of tuna, boil half a chicken breast, or have a protein shake.
I don't focus my diet on protein, I was just letting you know how I get it easily. I have been eating 100% plant based for a little over 2 months now. As far as dedicating time, the meal I make in the instant pot, takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to prep, then I let it go for 30 minutes in the instant pot, i then turn it off and let it sit for another 30 minutes. I add all the ingredients and create a meal in my fitness pal, and then weigh the entire meal which usually comes out to 4000 - 4500 grams total. I then divide that by 10, and put it into contains to make it easier to log and eat. So for about 30 minutes of work every 7 - 10 days, that takes care of 10 serving pretty easy.
The smoothie I make every day takes me about 5 minutes to make, plus another couple of minutes rinsing out the blender.
I used to eat meat and always followed the myth of around 0.8 - 1g+ of protein per pound of body weight. After doing a lot more research about being Vegan and protein, I have dropped that down to about 0.5 - 0.6g per lb of body weight. I am still maintaining strength and muscle doing this, and losing about 0.5 lbs of weight per week.
Effortless for you, not for me. Trying to force myself to eat beans (as much as I love them) when what I really want is cabbage and potatoes is a losing fair. Preparing something to eat every day of the week is a recipe for rebellion in my case because I will almost certainly reach for something else no matter how much I love that meal. By time, I mean time spent obsessing about protein, because that's what I tend to do.
I'm just saying that just because something is doable (even easily doable for some people), doesn't mean it's a good strategy for everyone.
I give up, good luck.
Thank goodness.10 -
I'd just like to add that I never said it was impossible to be overweight/obese and vegetarian/vegan, so if that applies to you (some of you who replied) then sure, you're probably not lying - lol.
However, vegetarian and vegan food is by calorie/volume ratio lower than the standardised diet of a non-vegetarian person today. This is of course, assuming you know what you're doing and not living off of skittles (those are vegetarian right?) and whatnot. You can gain weight on any dietary preference, what I'm saying is that the average vegetarian/vegan has a lower body weight than the average omnivore. That doesn't mean all vegetarians/vegans are at a healthy weight, and I never claimed such things.
Whether this be due to an overall higher level of health awareness, I do not know. Could be. But even so, one has to start somewhere. So going vegetarian/vegan for health reasons is definitely not a bad thing by any means.1 -
asliceofjackie wrote: »
Whether this be due to an overall higher level of health awareness, I do not know. Could be. But even so, one has to start somewhere. So going vegetarian/vegan for health reasons is definitely not a bad thing by any means.
That is the thing though. It could be a bad thing. That is why you are getting push back.
If a person is overweight and is not suffering from a diet related medical problem the path to better health is creating a calorie deficit and losing weight. Period. Choosing a particular style of eating based on averages or because you heard that people lose 8 pounds doing Keto in one week is not a guarantee to lose weight or getting healthier.
Adherence requires that you do something you are capable of doing. I can't speak for most people but if I absolutely hate or grow to hate a particular weight loss system I am not going to be capable of maintaining it.
The first and easiest choice is to change as little as possible from what you were already naturally doing. If you were naturally doing it, it likely represents some of your personal preferences. You hear people all the time losing weight because they started by replacing soda with diet or just cutting down/out caloric beverages. That may not be the last change they make but if that is comfortable then it is a good first choice.
If a person is already practically a vegetarian then, yes, it might be a good thing to try going the rest of the way. If not, it could be disastrous because, as I mentioned, there is a learning curve for some people. Giving up meat had led to hospitalization.3 -
Giving up meat had led to hospitalization.
Creating calorie deficits have also lead to hospitalisation but I'm pretty sure we're not both against calorie deficits.
You seem to be under the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that I somehow propose to use vegetarianism instead of calorie deficit, or as some magic solution - which isn't the case at all. Giving up meat and getting hospitalised means you've done something wrong, just like when you do calorie deficits wrong.
Also, science is not to be ignored when talking about losing weight, and averages are a measure of that. Sure, you need to choose a diet that works for you, but you also need a diet (whatever it might be) with a reasonable deficit. Now, if I were to look at two diets and be in a position where I had to chose between them, I would obviously choose the one with the lower average weight because it's the only thing that makes sense for my goal of losing weight. And assuming I know the diet and/or follow it properly, I would be statistically more likely to lose weight.
So again, if a person themselves say they want to go vegetarian for health reasons - I for sure ain't shooting them. I would assume that they known themselves better than I do, and that they've done at least part of proper research on what they're getting in to.1 -
My point was not that it's possible to be overweight as a vegetarian/vegan, because I was. I was talking about why people often lose weight at first when doing 100% plant based, and some reasons why it might make a difference (that IME does not apply to vegetarians so much).
What I was responding to is specifically this claim:asliceofjackie wrote: »IHowever, vegetarian and vegan food is by calorie/volume ratio lower than the standardised diet of a non-vegetarian person today.
You can't start comparing someone not paying attention to what they eat and someone who is a vegan or vegetarian and health conscious. The true comparison should be the required differences between the diets. I've done all three ways of eating while health and diet-conscious, and it's just not true that vegetarian and vegan food is by calorie/volume ratio lower than non vegetarian food.
First, I think EVERYONE should eat a good amount of non starchy veg, so that's not a difference. The difference ends up being the sources of protein in the diet. Meat is not especially (or inherently) high cal vs. beans and rice or various other vegan or vegetarian ways of getting protein (vegetarian including eggs and dairy). It is not that hard to overeat on vegan foods if you know how to make them in a tasty way, and for some it might be easy to start erring toward non filling foods (especially if you have in your mind that vegan=healthy). I'm not even talking about Oreos or vegan ice cream here, but refined grains. It's also easy to add cals with oils and to go overboard on nuts.
I think the real difference is not that meat is high cal (it's really not -- and I think it's not uncommon for ethical vegetarians to use cheese more as a substitute, which can be much higher cal), it's that on average more people who reduce meat or avoid it entirely are health conscious, and that's extra true for vegans, in addition to some of the popularizers for 100% plant based (even that based on ethics, which the word "vegan" implies) being very specific diets -- the low fat 80-10-10 stuff, the anti oil and even nuts stuff, the whole foods based, the raw nonsense, the starch people -- having rules that limit food choice beyond merely avoiding animal-based foods.
And also it forces you to be thoughtful and to plan ahead about eating, or else to rely on homemade foods. But the homemade foods could be quite high cal if you wanted, just as an omnivore's choices can be quite low cal.
I get the feeling that you are considering "vegan foods" to be vegetables, which are hardly uniquely eaten by vegans and not the base of all vegan diets, and omnivore foods as, I dunno, Big Macs, which again are hardly the only form in which meat can be eaten. For me, it's way easier to hit a low cal limit (like 1200-1500) and get in adequate nutrients doing omnivore. But since I have no need to eat that low, it's just a decision about how I want to eat. (It's obviously possible to do a 1200-1500 diet on vegetarian or plant-based too, but for me it's harder.)4 -
asliceofjackie wrote: »So going vegetarian/vegan for health reasons is definitely not a bad thing by any means.
If you think just being vegetarian or vegan will improve your health, it could be. Which is not to say that I'm against doing either. But statistical averages don't tell you anything.
Makes more sense -- whether you eat meat or not -- to consider what's unhealthy about your overall diet and improve it.
For example, if someone is a take out junky who eats tons of sweets, going from options with meat to those without isn't going to do much of anything, including for weight loss. If, instead, someone looks at their diet and says hmm, I don't eat nearly enough veg, I overuse oil, I eat fried foods somewhat often, and dessert seems to take up too many of my calories and, oh yes, I'm drinking a lot of cals in my Starbucks, there are some obvious things to do that will improve health AND calories and lead to weight loss, that don't really have much to do with meat consumption. If your meat consumption is mostly lower cal, higher protein meats, then cutting meat vs. adding other things and cutting down on some others is unlikely to lead to weight loss. If, instead, the main source of meat are higher fat, lower protein foods that also come with carbs, then cutting back on those dishes (without or without replacing the meat portions) will be useful.
I didn't think OP was talking about weight loss, but about feeling better, and that's individual. She asked if others felt better cutting out meat, and personally, no, I don't, although I think there are other reasons one might decide to do so. OP has specific digestive issues, so she might feel better cutting it out (although more often I think triggers are dairy or certain kinds of plant foods).3 -
If one's goal is to be vegan or vegetarian, that's a fine thing.
If one's goal is to lose weight or achieve a healthy diet, becoming vegan or vegetarian is a tangent, an additional and fairly irrelevant complication.
A vegan or vegetarian diet isn't necessarily and inherently healhier than an omnivorous diet (IMO, sound nutrition is ever so slightly more difficult, because one has restricted one's food choices).
A vegan or vegetarian diet isn't necessarily and inherently lower in calories than an omnivorous diet. One still has to pay attention to calories. Healthy vegan/vegetarian foods include many delicious, filling lower calorie foods, but all of those foods are available to omnivores.
If someone wants to become vegan or vegetarian for ethical or taste-preference reasons, I encourage them to do so.
If someone wants to lose weight, I encourage them to reduce net calorie intake by eating less or doing more. If someone wants to eat more healthfully, I encourage them to learn about nutrition and remodel their eating accordingly. For those goals, vegan or vegetarian diets are an optional complication . . . a minor complication, but 100% optional.
ETA: If someone has specific health issues possibly related to eating, like OP, the most direct route to improvement is to take diagnostic steps (such as a doctor visit, a Registered Dietician referral, an elimination diet), and act on the results. Unless animal products prove to be among the trigger foods - which is uncommon - vegan or vegetarian eating is an irrelevant complication for that, too, and likely a delay in resolving the problem.5 -
asliceofjackie wrote: »
Whether this be due to an overall higher level of health awareness, I do not know. Could be. But even so, one has to start somewhere. So going vegetarian/vegan for health reasons is definitely not a bad thing by any means.
That is the thing though. It could be a bad thing. That is why you are getting push back.
If a person is overweight and is not suffering from a diet related medical problem the path to better health is creating a calorie deficit and losing weight. Period. Choosing a particular style of eating based on averages or because you heard that people lose 8 pounds doing Keto in one week is not a guarantee to lose weight or getting healthier.
Adherence requires that you do something you are capable of doing. I can't speak for most people but if I absolutely hate or grow to hate a particular weight loss system I am not going to be capable of maintaining it.
The first and easiest choice is to change as little as possible from what you were already naturally doing. If you were naturally doing it, it likely represents some of your personal preferences. You hear people all the time losing weight because they started by replacing soda with diet or just cutting down/out caloric beverages. That may not be the last change they make but if that is comfortable then it is a good first choice.
If a person is already practically a vegetarian then, yes, it might be a good thing to try going the rest of the way. If not, it could be disastrous because, as I mentioned, there is a learning curve for some people. Giving up meat had led to hospitalization.
Yes, I had been unknowingly been managing my anemia through my omnivorous diet alone, but when I moved in to a vegetarian yoga community I didn't get enough iron, and didn't know this until I went to the Urgent Care clinic after having a very bad reaction to bee stings, and for some reason they happened to test my iron levels. The doctor said one point lower and he would have administered iron intravenously. Or maybe it was after I went to the Urgent Care clinic after being bitten by a brown recluse spider. That ashram was a very dangerous place, lol.
Sure, it's possible to manage anemia while being vegetarian/vegan, but like you said, there can be a learning curve.4 -
I get the feeling that you are considering "vegan foods" to be vegetables, which are hardly uniquely eaten by vegans and not the base of all vegan diets, and omnivore foods as, I dunno, Big Macs, which again are hardly the only form in which meat can be eaten.
So, you mentioned the difference being in protein sources. Just for numbers' sake.
Calories per 100 grams
Meat
Chicken breast: 116
Ground beef: 179
Ground pork: 250
Common vegetarian options
Tofu: 94
Soy mince: 150*
Oumph (That might be just a Swedish thing): 120*
Quorn: 138
Beans: 110*
Other potential candidates
Eggs: 75
Cheese: 286**
* Not found on USDA so I took numbers from the packaging.
** Cheese varies greatly, but I took the first hit on USDA website.
Now here's my analysis.
Meat has quite a lot of calories, considering their portion sizes as well. Vegetarian "meat substitutes" are generally slightly lower in calories. Not by much, but a little bit. Then there's things like cheese which is higher in calories - but most people are also aware that you can't stuff your face with cheese all the time - regardless of the diet of choice. Now if I were to take a normal plate of omnivore food and replace it with a vegetarian one, I wouldn't just remove the meat and add an equally big slab of cheese.
So, maybe this is just a difference in where we're from. But where I'm from (in Sweden), going vegetarian or at least cutting down on eating meat is an official recommendation from registered dieticians when it comes to losing weight, and it has proven effective. Maybe that's just because of different cultures and different ways of handling food, or different choices of food. But no one here (in Sweden) would assume that cheese is a substitute for meat. The ones I listed above are the most common substitutes for meat. Vegetarians over here don't eat cheese any more often than omnivores.
As for "you can't compare someone who's not paying attention to what they eat" - I never did. I've worked under the assumption that since OP is on MFP, they know at least a little something about what they're doing etc. Most people do have some sort of common sense, because most people (in most countries, not true for all) aren't obese.0
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