Switching to veggie for health benefits

asliceofjackie wrote: »

I'd just like to add that I never said it was impossible to be overweight/obese and vegetarian/vegan, so if that applies to you (some of you who replied) then sure, you're probably not lying - lol.

However, vegetarian and vegan food is by calorie/volume ratio lower than the standardised diet of a non-vegetarian person today. This is of course, assuming you know what you're doing and not living off of skittles (those are vegetarian right?) and whatnot. You can gain weight on any dietary preference, what I'm saying is that the average vegetarian/vegan has a lower body weight than the average omnivore. That doesn't mean all vegetarians/vegans are at a healthy weight, and I never claimed such things.

Whether this be due to an overall higher level of health awareness, I do not know. Could be. But even so, one has to start somewhere. So going vegetarian/vegan for health reasons is definitely not a bad thing by any means.

You stated that being vegetarian or vegan will "almost naturally create a calorie deficit." This isn't an accurate generalization. There are many, many high calorie foods that are vegetarian or vegan, and even if someone is eating mostly vegetables and meatless protein, it's still quite possible to wind up in a calorie surplus due to portion sizes. I've even seen some *very* calorie dense tempeh. For example, this one was sold locally where I used to live: https://www.smilingharatempeh.com/our-products/#soyfree (Yes, it's good; no, I didn't think it was worth 500-600 calories for a 4 ounce serving!)

The bottom line is that if you want to lose weight, there is no way of eating that will reliably create a calorie deficit without intentionally trying to create a deficit. If you are not trying to create a deficit, then you can overeat on a veg diet just as you can on a diet with animal products.

Again, go veg if your own preferences or morals lead you to do that. But don't assume that being veg will fix health problems or automatically cause weight loss.

Search for "whole food plant based" and you'll find diets that are extremely healthy and hard to overeat on, since highly processed foods are eliminated and replaced with healthy veggies and starches. One quick example: Oreos qualify as vegan, since they contain no meat, but they won't make the cut on a whole food plant based diet. I switched to WFPB and lost weight, even though I didn't need to, since WFPB allows a high volume of food and nutrients, but is low in calories. Use Dr Greger's Daily Dozen app to guide food choices and you'll become healthy and in a proper weight range without a lot of effort. And the beans and roughage will take care of any lazy bowel issues! I have ulcerative colitis, which has gone into remission, and my gastroenterologist was able to take me off the medication I have taken daily for 30 years. He says that's almost unheard of. My GP says I went from horrible (my word) labs on my old standard American diet to the best labs he has ever seen in his career at my checkup in January. I've currently reintroduced lean meats into my diet while I try to add some muscle mass, and may continue to eat some meat as I go forward, but I'm convinced that a whole food plant based diet is the healthiest option out there. I guess I'm now "Flexitarian" - meaning I eat mostly plant based but with some lean meats. YouTube has tons of good information on whole food plant based (and of course, some not so good). Give it a try for a few weeks and make your own judgement (I recommend that you consult your doctor, as I did when I embarked on WFPB).

Funny how I simply posted my experience and was woo'd. Didnt we just explain the nature of woo in another thread?!

johnwhitent wrote: »

Search for "whole food plant based" and you'll find diets that are extremely healthy and hard to overeat on, since highly processed foods are eliminated and replaced with healthy veggies and starches. One quick example: Oreos qualify as vegan, since they contain no meat, but they won't make the cut on a whole food plant based diet. I switched to WFPB and lost weight, even though I didn't need to, since WFPB allows a high volume of food and nutrients, but is low in calories. Use Dr Greger's Daily Dozen app to guide food choices and you'll become healthy and in a proper weight range without a lot of effort. And the beans and roughage will take care of any lazy bowel issues! I have ulcerative colitis, which has gone into remission, and my gastroenterologist was able to take me off the medication I have taken daily for 30 years. He says that's almost unheard of. My GP says I went from horrible (my word) labs on my old standard American diet to the best labs he has ever seen in his career at my checkup in January. I've currently reintroduced lean meats into my diet while I try to add some muscle mass, and may continue to eat some meat as I go forward, but I'm convinced that a whole food plant based diet is the healthiest option out there. I guess I'm now "Flexitarian" - meaning I eat mostly plant based but with some lean meats. YouTube has tons of good information on whole food plant based (and of course, some not so good). Give it a try for a few weeks and make your own judgement (I recommend that you consult your doctor, as I did when I embarked on WFPB).

You know what also qualifies as vegan? Pecans (which I sadly overate last week - 400 calories for what looked like a handful.)

lemurcat2 wrote: »

asliceofjackie wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

I get the feeling that you are considering "vegan foods" to be vegetables, which are hardly uniquely eaten by vegans and not the base of all vegan diets, and omnivore foods as, I dunno, Big Macs, which again are hardly the only form in which meat can be eaten.

So, you mentioned the difference being in protein sources. Just for numbers' sake.

Calories per 100 grams

Meat
Chicken breast: 116
Ground beef: 179
Ground pork: 250

Common vegetarian options
Tofu: 94
Soy mince: 150*
Oumph (That might be just a Swedish thing): 120*
Quorn: 138
Beans: 110*


Other potential candidates
Eggs: 75
Cheese: 286**


* Not found on USDA so I took numbers from the packaging.
** Cheese varies greatly, but I took the first hit on USDA website.

Okay, now let's add in protein:

Calories per 40 g protein:

Meat
Chicken breast (skinless, boneless): 214 cal
Ground beef (95% lean): 256 cal
Pork tenderloin (I don't know why you'd include so many ground options): 208 cal

Common vegetarian options (yours seems more based on fake meat than my list would be, and I nixed the one I've never heard of)
Tofu (I went with extra firm): 335 cal
Soy mince: 402 cal
Quorn: 760 cal (based on USDA ones branded, I don't eat this, so maybe there are better options)
Beans: 619 cal (I did black beans)


Other potential candidates
Eggs: 458
Cheese (went with swiss): 586

I was just about to do this responding to the per 100 g of food post on the first second page of the thread, and thought, "you know, I should check the second third page of the thread in case someone has already done it." Thanks for saving me some time, @lemurcat2 .

asliceofjackie wrote: »

Meat has quite a lot of calories, considering their portion sizes as well. Vegetarian "meat substitutes" are generally slightly lower in calories. Not by much, but a little bit.

As you can see, it's the opposite.

Then there's things like cheese which is higher in calories - but most people are also aware that you can't stuff your face with cheese all the time - regardless of the diet of choice. Now if I were to take a normal plate of omnivore food and replace it with a vegetarian one, I wouldn't just remove the meat and add an equally big slab of cheese.

No, but if you cut cals by switching to lower fat meat options, using less fat in cooking other foods, and reducing the starchy side, and then cutting down on between meat snacks and desserts -- which are usually veg -- it's probably more efficient than simply replacing the steak and potatoes and broccoli cooked with fat with a big bowl of pasta and beans with some veg and cheese, veg cooked in olive oil. And I'm not knocking the latter, I eat stuff like that. I'm knocking the idea that merely cutting out meat = lower cals.

So, maybe this is just a difference in where we're from. But where I'm from (in Sweden), going vegetarian or at least cutting down on eating meat is an official recommendation from registered dieticians when it comes to losing weight, and it has proven effective.

How have they shown it's effectiveness?

In the US, cutting down on meat is a recommendation for HEALTH, not weight loss, and I think it can be a good idea if you cut back on higher fat cuts of meat and, say, eat more beans and veg, but the adjustment to the diet can't merely be "cut back on meat."

I have seen no convincing evidence that no meat is better than some meat within the context of an overall healthy diet. And as I mentioned, for me, meat is actually helpful in weight loss/maintenance. (I kind of wish that weren't so, because I'm conflicted about meat eating to some degree, thus the back and forth between veg and not and the reason I always spend good bits of the year doing veg for one reason or another.)

Vegetarians over here don't eat cheese any more often than omnivores.

I'm not talking about eating a big chunk of cheese, but using added cheese for flavor and to add some protein.

You also seem a lot more interested in meat subs than I am, as I just don't eat them. I will eat tofu and tempeh, but those are long traditional foods used in many cuisines. (I am not saying everyone should be like me or that this is anything more than personal preference.) I would have listed a bunch of different kinds of beans, tofu, chickpeas, peas, and the like as protein sources, and noted that they are often eaten along with other starchy carbs. The cals can add up easily, which is not to say that's a bad or unhealthy way of eating -- it's not. But it's not inherently low cal vs. meat eating.

As for "you can't compare someone who's not paying attention to what they eat" - I never did. I've worked under the assumption that since OP is on MFP, they know at least a little something about what they're doing etc. Most people do have some sort of common sense, because most people (in most countries, not true for all) aren't obese.

You mentioned nutrition-conscious vegetarians and then compared them with the standard non veg diet, which is not nutrition-conscious.

Add more fiber and water...for me, having a large spinach salad daily works great. You can add more fiber in different ways

AnnPT77 wrote: »

So lowball the protein content? I know I'm just expressing a crazy USAian thought here, but no, thank you.

According to our recommendations you will get enough protein if you eat a balanced diet and unless you're a body builder you will probably be just fine.

But really, it all comes down to a difference of opinion and I can appreciate what you're saying without agreeing with it.

asliceofjackie wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

So lowball the protein content? I know I'm just expressing a crazy USAian thought here, but no, thank you.

According to our recommendations you will get enough protein if you eat a balanced diet and unless you're a body builder you will probably be just fine.

But really, it all comes down to a difference of opinion and I can appreciate what you're saying without agreeing with it.

I think the part you are not really grasping is the point I tried to make earlier today. It is not a switch that just anyone can flip easily. If it is not easy it might challenge adherence and impede weight loss.

It would probably be in my wheelhouse to transition to vegetarianism. I know my way around plant based proteins, I have meatless days on a regular basis because I like the variety, and I am a good cook. I am not going to do it though because it is too much of a change for me. As much as I love fish and I get most of amount of my non pb protein there I am not even willing to risk going full pescatarian. The reason is my health. I still have a lot of weight to lose and that is my number 1 priority. I am sticking with what is easiest for me and what is easiest is having most of the menu available to me.

I am already in better health and it will continue to improve on the road I am on. I don't need to throw in any extra rules or requirements.