Looking for Help Getting abs
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"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
My cholesterol levels are perfect and I come from a family that lives well into their 90s and above eating this type of diet. I'm good thanks
Never heard of perfect cholesterol when taking in from outside sources. I think abnormal is the correct definition
You do realize that your body produces much more cholesterol than most people get from their diet. dietary cholesterol actually has very little impact on blood cholesterol, though should be limited if you already have, or are at risk of high cholesterol. the best thing you can do for blood cholesterol is to maintain a healthy weight and live an active lifestyle... a lot of people with cholesterol issues, is due to genetics not diet.
“I do realize” that you “don’t realize” no DIETARY cholesterol benefits the body. The only cholesterol anyone needs is produced by their own bodies. You can’t have high cholesterol on a plant based diet because there is no cholesterol from an outside source. Your own body regulates it. Healthy weight and active lifestyle doesn’t protect you. Heart disease is the number 1 cause of death. Stop eating meat and cheese before it’s too late. Cholesterol issues are due to diet not genetics.
Where did I say it benefits the body? I said it has little if any impact on blood cholesterol.... um, vegetarians can and some do have high cholesterol, even vegans do/can. you really need to provide some peer-reviewed studies that support such claims6 -
@jdog022 You are right/ I was asking him at the early beginning if he sees a difference between BF and fat as nutrient. Unfortunatelly, my message was dropped (mfp bug?) amongst few others(from other ppl with great notes). And you are also right.... my "exhibition" was totaly pointless. He is turning his arguments as he reads something new and applies all known discussion/argumentation falacies.
@Dtilka sorry for Ad hominem, all important was said by others, I don't want to participate in this kind of discussion. I see no problem when you live in conformity with your research but please before you start propagation campaign run at least one real clinical study first.
Glad I could help you out 👍 I stick to the facts. I have no problem with ad hominem attacks. I gave no fallacies. Some people refuse to believe the truth. Meta-analysis, Peer reviewed journals, mechanistic data studies don’t matter anymore I guess 😪
It’s alright. There’s three stages of truth: ridicule, opposition, then acceptance
And it appears you show signs of all 3 with regards to your knowledge and lack of supporting evidence.9 -
Agreed. How is the keto diet working for you?Keto_Vampire wrote: »Sigh...entropy ensures...a request for order/focus on original topic by OP
I'm afraid that your understanding of what fuel gets used and when is somewhat confused and, frankly, incorrect.
Nothing particularly wrong with this, it actually happens often (and funnily enough it also happens quite often with your apparent nemesis, keto proponents)!
And it wouldn't even be a big deal if you would take gentle hints.
The only issue exists because you're continuing to spout nonsense mixing in the occasional randomly correct fact while representing yourself as an expert!
Grab a text-book or some google foo -- heck, use bing and get some points from microsoft while you're at it--and add some bits of info into your grey matter! I promise that doing so won't hurt your abs and won't increase either your fat or your scale weight!
I’m incorrect yet don’t prove a point but say I should look on google or read books...Anyone on the keto diet has to deal with the effects of ketosis. The negatives far outweigh the positive. Why eat solely/primarily fat for energy when you can primarily eat carbs for energy? I’d love to hear some hints that I’m missing
Which part is nonsense and which part is correct fact? Once again I hear that I’m wrong but you can’t tell me which part? Thank you for your help!
Why is it one extreme or the other, high carb low fat vs low carb high fat? What about balance... adequate protein, a decent amount of fat to support hormone and body function, and the rest carbs. This works for a lot of people, myself and many others in this thread who have found success and got lean and possess ab definition.
You are vegan. Great. It works for you. Great. There are other ways of eating that work for other people (clearly).
Eat whatever you want and works for you! High Carb/low carb high fat/low fat I don’t care what you eat! We were discussing facts regarding how to get abs - how fat makes/gives you bodyfat and the times when it is burned as energy. Yes you need adequate protein for muscle. If you need a balance of each then do it!9 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Fat is the preferred substrate while at rest, not carbohydrates - about 60% of energy used I believe. The muscles of the heart, in fact, will only use fat fuel.
The organ that has a preferential use of carbohydrates is the brain because of the blood-brain barrier - glucose can cross it, as can ketones, but fatty acids can't. That is what induces ketosis - the need to continue feeding the brain but glucose is too low in the body.
Deficits allow you to lose total weight and until you are very lean, internal lipid storage is very much the preferential source for that weight. It is the body fat percentage that generally governs what the partition ration is for lost mass.
So long as you are eating at a deficit, you most certainly could eat some lard and lose weight.
So much misinformation. Look up the glycemic index. It’s how quickly carbs are converted into glucose (sugar).
Deficits allow you to lose total weight yes. Yes you can lose weight while eating lard. NOT WHAT WERE TALKING ABOUT. I said FAT makes you FAT. Yes. Yes You will lose weight but gain fat eating lard on a caloric deficit. YES you can burn that fat SOLELY (not burning carbs) if in ketosis thus (Not being fat) . For those of you who haven’t been in ketosis before, it’s very hard to enter because you need to deplete all your carbs.
Does it make sense to put your body in ketosis to burn primarily fat so you can eat lard all day everyday or eat carbs which are a number 1 priority to be burned as fuel and keep the fat to a minimum?
Read everything I wrote before responding please. I literally said "internal lipid storage is very much the preferential source for that weight". Do you know what a lipid is, is that the issue?
Perhaps we can look at it from a math perspective and analyze what it based on compartments in your mental model of body composition?
So let's look at it simply with this compartment model: fats (lipids), dry lean tissue, glycogen (glucose), water, and mineral content.
So let's say someone is using 3,000 calories a day worth of physical and metabolic activity. Let's say for simplification, all they eat that day is 1,000 calories worth of lard. So now that's a 2,000 calorie deficit.
My contentions would be
1. Most of that 2,000 calories will come from depleting internal body fat stores. This will mean the person has lost body fat.
2. A small portion of the 2,000 can come from glycogen stores, but not all of it, and it won't empty all of the person's stores.
3. The person will probably not be in ketosis, and they will have burned fat stores in their body before ever entering ketosis.
4. If the person weights less the next day, that loss will come from a combination of water, lipid, and glycogen loss. From one day very little of the loss will be dry lean tissue or mineral content.
What of these 4 contentions do you disagree with, and what is your alternative explanation for what is going on? If you can't answer the question but can only repeat your claim, I will contend that your mental model isn't modeling reality, which is why it is failing to hold up to scrutiny - instead, your model is based on motivated reasoning for what you want to be true and so far you've only had to hold it up to a superficial challenge of its internal consistency.11 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
My cholesterol levels are perfect and I come from a family that lives well into their 90s and above eating this type of diet. I'm good thanks
Never heard of perfect cholesterol when taking in from outside sources. I think abnormal is the correct definition
You do realize that your body produces much more cholesterol than most people get from their diet. dietary cholesterol actually has very little impact on blood cholesterol, though should be limited if you already have, or are at risk of high cholesterol. the best thing you can do for blood cholesterol is to maintain a healthy weight and live an active lifestyle... a lot of people with cholesterol issues, is due to genetics not diet.
“I do realize” that you “don’t realize” no DIETARY cholesterol benefits the body. The only cholesterol anyone needs is produced by their own bodies. You can’t have high cholesterol on a plant based diet because there is no cholesterol from an outside source. Your own body regulates it. Healthy weight and active lifestyle doesn’t protect you. Heart disease is the number 1 cause of death. Stop eating meat and cheese before it’s too late. Cholesterol issues are due to diet not genetics.
Where did I say it benefits the body? I said it has little if any impact on blood cholesterol.... um, vegetarians can and some do have high cholesterol, even vegans do/can. you really need to provide some peer-reviewed studies that support such claims
Dietary cholesterol RAISES cholesterol in the body. That’s an impact. A negative impact. Vegetarians can have high cholesterol because they’re still eating cholesterol. Look up the difference between a vegan and vegetarian. NO VEGAN can have high cholesterol. There is no outside source. Your body regulates it. Are you denying that high cholesterol doesn’t cause heart disease? And that all dietary cholesterol comes from outside sources?
11 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
My cholesterol levels are perfect and I come from a family that lives well into their 90s and above eating this type of diet. I'm good thanks
Never heard of perfect cholesterol when taking in from outside sources. I think abnormal is the correct definition
You do realize that your body produces much more cholesterol than most people get from their diet. dietary cholesterol actually has very little impact on blood cholesterol, though should be limited if you already have, or are at risk of high cholesterol. the best thing you can do for blood cholesterol is to maintain a healthy weight and live an active lifestyle... a lot of people with cholesterol issues, is due to genetics not diet.
“I do realize” that you “don’t realize” no DIETARY cholesterol benefits the body. The only cholesterol anyone needs is produced by their own bodies. You can’t have high cholesterol on a plant based diet because there is no cholesterol from an outside source. Your own body regulates it. Healthy weight and active lifestyle doesn’t protect you. Heart disease is the number 1 cause of death. Stop eating meat and cheese before it’s too late. Cholesterol issues are due to diet not genetics.
Where did I say it benefits the body? I said it has little if any impact on blood cholesterol.... um, vegetarians can and some do have high cholesterol, even vegans do/can. you really need to provide some peer-reviewed studies that support such claims
Dietary cholesterol RAISES cholesterol in the body. That’s an impact. A negative impact. Vegetarians can have high cholesterol because they’re still eating cholesterol. Look up the difference between a vegan and vegetarian. NO VEGAN can have high cholesterol. There is no outside source. Your body regulates it. Are you denying that high cholesterol doesn’t cause heart disease? And that all dietary cholesterol comes from outside sources?
Genetics plays a bigger role for active healthy weight individuals, than their diet does.
and dietary cholesterol may raise cholesterol, but in many cases has little or no effect6 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Fat is the preferred substrate while at rest, not carbohydrates - about 60% of energy used I believe. The muscles of the heart, in fact, will only use fat fuel.
The organ that has a preferential use of carbohydrates is the brain because of the blood-brain barrier - glucose can cross it, as can ketones, but fatty acids can't. That is what induces ketosis - the need to continue feeding the brain but glucose is too low in the body.
Deficits allow you to lose total weight and until you are very lean, internal lipid storage is very much the preferential source for that weight. It is the body fat percentage that generally governs what the partition ration is for lost mass.
So long as you are eating at a deficit, you most certainly could eat some lard and lose weight.
So much misinformation. Look up the glycemic index. It’s how quickly carbs are converted into glucose (sugar).
Deficits allow you to lose total weight yes. Yes you can lose weight while eating lard. NOT WHAT WERE TALKING ABOUT. I said FAT makes you FAT. Yes. Yes You will lose weight but gain fat eating lard on a caloric deficit. YES you can burn that fat SOLELY (not burning carbs) if in ketosis thus (Not being fat) . For those of you who haven’t been in ketosis before, it’s very hard to enter because you need to deplete all your carbs.
Does it make sense to put your body in ketosis to burn primarily fat so you can eat lard all day everyday or eat carbs which are a number 1 priority to be burned as fuel and keep the fat to a minimum?
Read everything I wrote before responding please. I literally said "internal lipid storage is very much the preferential source for that weight". Do you know what a lipid is, is that the issue?
Perhaps we can look at it from a math perspective and analyze what it based on compartments in your mental model of body composition?
So let's look at it simply with this compartment model: fats (lipids), dry lean tissue, glycogen (glucose), water, and mineral content.
So let's say someone is using 3,000 calories a day worth of physical and metabolic activity. Let's say for simplification, all they eat that day is 1,000 calories worth of lard. So now that's a 2,000 calorie deficit.
My contentions would be
1. Most of that 2,000 calories will come from depleting internal body fat stores. This will mean the person has lost body fat.
2. A small portion of the 2,000 can come from glycogen stores, but not all of it, and it won't empty all of the person's stores.
3. The person will probably not be in ketosis, and they will have burned fat stores in their body before ever entering ketosis.
4. If the person weights less the next day, that loss will come from a combination of water, lipid, and glycogen loss. From one day very little of the loss will be dry lean tissue or mineral content.
What of these 4 contentions do you disagree with, and what is your alternative explanation for what is going on? If you can't answer the question but can only repeat your claim, I will contend that your mental model isn't modeling reality, which is why it is failing to hold up to scrutiny - instead, your model is based on motivated reasoning for what you want to be true and so far you've only had to hold it up to a superficial challenge of its internal consistency.
Intelligence through sophisticated terminology to imply valid reasoning yet no justification applied to support such claims.
To communicate swiftly to your assertions:
1.If 1000 calories of lard (pure fat) is consumed solely (no carbs), agreed the caloric deficit would burn “lipids” (your fat) for fuel.
2. A 2000 calorie caloric deficit will surely deplete almost all your glycogen stores
3. The person will definitely be in ketosis. No carbs have been consumed/ are present in the body. That is the definition of ketosis. Burning fat solely as fuel because of a lack of carbs.
4. Somewhat agreeable here but you’re forgetting muscle being depleted as energy. Fat will also be the primary fuel. You’re only eating 1k calories of lard.
I ponder the qualifications of your nutritional reasoning. Studying PubMed would increase your scientific capabilities unquestionably.
11 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
My cholesterol levels are perfect and I come from a family that lives well into their 90s and above eating this type of diet. I'm good thanks
Never heard of perfect cholesterol when taking in from outside sources. I think abnormal is the correct definition
You do realize that your body produces much more cholesterol than most people get from their diet. dietary cholesterol actually has very little impact on blood cholesterol, though should be limited if you already have, or are at risk of high cholesterol. the best thing you can do for blood cholesterol is to maintain a healthy weight and live an active lifestyle... a lot of people with cholesterol issues, is due to genetics not diet.
“I do realize” that you “don’t realize” no DIETARY cholesterol benefits the body. The only cholesterol anyone needs is produced by their own bodies. You can’t have high cholesterol on a plant based diet because there is no cholesterol from an outside source. Your own body regulates it. Healthy weight and active lifestyle doesn’t protect you. Heart disease is the number 1 cause of death. Stop eating meat and cheese before it’s too late. Cholesterol issues are due to diet not genetics.
Where did I say it benefits the body? I said it has little if any impact on blood cholesterol.... um, vegetarians can and some do have high cholesterol, even vegans do/can. you really need to provide some peer-reviewed studies that support such claims
Dietary cholesterol RAISES cholesterol in the body. That’s an impact. A negative impact. Vegetarians can have high cholesterol because they’re still eating cholesterol. Look up the difference between a vegan and vegetarian. NO VEGAN can have high cholesterol. There is no outside source. Your body regulates it. Are you denying that high cholesterol doesn’t cause heart disease? And that all dietary cholesterol comes from outside sources?
Genetics plays a bigger role for active healthy weight individuals, than their diet does.
and dietary cholesterol may raise cholesterol, but in many cases has little or no effect
Nah broski genetics doesn’t determine how active you are or your healthy weight. Adherence to a nutritional protocol and consistency training determines how active you are and your healthy weight.
Dietary cholesterol 100% raises cholesterol and 100% IS the cause of heart attacks and strokes. Heart disease is 100% correlated with high cholesterol. Keep saying little or no effect when it has a huge/biggest effect on heart disease.
13 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
My cholesterol levels are perfect and I come from a family that lives well into their 90s and above eating this type of diet. I'm good thanks
Never heard of perfect cholesterol when taking in from outside sources. I think abnormal is the correct definition
You do realize that your body produces much more cholesterol than most people get from their diet. dietary cholesterol actually has very little impact on blood cholesterol, though should be limited if you already have, or are at risk of high cholesterol. the best thing you can do for blood cholesterol is to maintain a healthy weight and live an active lifestyle... a lot of people with cholesterol issues, is due to genetics not diet.
“I do realize” that you “don’t realize” no DIETARY cholesterol benefits the body. The only cholesterol anyone needs is produced by their own bodies. You can’t have high cholesterol on a plant based diet because there is no cholesterol from an outside source. Your own body regulates it. Healthy weight and active lifestyle doesn’t protect you. Heart disease is the number 1 cause of death. Stop eating meat and cheese before it’s too late. Cholesterol issues are due to diet not genetics.
Where did I say it benefits the body? I said it has little if any impact on blood cholesterol.... um, vegetarians can and some do have high cholesterol, even vegans do/can. you really need to provide some peer-reviewed studies that support such claims
Dietary cholesterol RAISES cholesterol in the body. That’s an impact. A negative impact. Vegetarians can have high cholesterol because they’re still eating cholesterol. Look up the difference between a vegan and vegetarian. NO VEGAN can have high cholesterol. There is no outside source. Your body regulates it. Are you denying that high cholesterol doesn’t cause heart disease? And that all dietary cholesterol comes from outside sources?
Genetics plays a bigger role for active healthy weight individuals, than their diet does.
and dietary cholesterol may raise cholesterol, but in many cases has little or no effect
Nah broski genetics doesn’t determine how active you are or your healthy weight. Adherence to a nutritional protocol and consistency training determines how active you are and your healthy weight.
Dietary cholesterol 100% raises cholesterol and 100% IS the cause of heart attacks and strokes. Heart disease is 100% correlated with high cholesterol. Keep saying little or no effect when it has a huge/biggest effect on heart disease.
Wow, reading comprehension fail...
Where did I say genetics has anything to do with activity level or weight?
I said for active-healthy-weight individuals genetics plays a bigger role than diet for blood cholesterol levels.
I did not say high cholesterol does not lead to heart disease, where do you see I said that?
I said dietary cholesterol has little effect on blood cholesterol for active-healthy-weight individuals.
Seems like you need to change what people are saying in order for you to rebut. try basing it on what is actually said, not what you think they might be trying to say.
7 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
My cholesterol levels are perfect and I come from a family that lives well into their 90s and above eating this type of diet. I'm good thanks
Never heard of perfect cholesterol when taking in from outside sources. I think abnormal is the correct definition
You do realize that your body produces much more cholesterol than most people get from their diet. dietary cholesterol actually has very little impact on blood cholesterol, though should be limited if you already have, or are at risk of high cholesterol. the best thing you can do for blood cholesterol is to maintain a healthy weight and live an active lifestyle... a lot of people with cholesterol issues, is due to genetics not diet.
“I do realize” that you “don’t realize” no DIETARY cholesterol benefits the body. The only cholesterol anyone needs is produced by their own bodies. You can’t have high cholesterol on a plant based diet because there is no cholesterol from an outside source. Your own body regulates it. Healthy weight and active lifestyle doesn’t protect you. Heart disease is the number 1 cause of death. Stop eating meat and cheese before it’s too late. Cholesterol issues are due to diet not genetics.
Where did I say it benefits the body? I said it has little if any impact on blood cholesterol.... um, vegetarians can and some do have high cholesterol, even vegans do/can. you really need to provide some peer-reviewed studies that support such claims
Dietary cholesterol RAISES cholesterol in the body. That’s an impact. A negative impact. Vegetarians can have high cholesterol because they’re still eating cholesterol. Look up the difference between a vegan and vegetarian. NO VEGAN can have high cholesterol. There is no outside source. Your body regulates it. Are you denying that high cholesterol doesn’t cause heart disease? And that all dietary cholesterol comes from outside sources?
Genetics plays a bigger role for active healthy weight individuals, than their diet does.
and dietary cholesterol may raise cholesterol, but in many cases has little or no effect
Nah broski genetics doesn’t determine how active you are or your healthy weight. Adherence to a nutritional protocol and consistency training determines how active you are and your healthy weight.
Dietary cholesterol 100% raises cholesterol and 100% IS the cause of heart attacks and strokes. Heart disease is 100% correlated with high cholesterol. Keep saying little or no effect when it has a huge/biggest effect on heart disease.
Wow, reading comprehension fail... where did I say genetics has anything to do with activity level or weight?
I said for active-healthy-weight individuals genetics plays a bigger role than diet for blood cholesterol levels.
Seems like you need to change what people are saying in order for you to rebut. try basing it on what is actually said, not what you think they might be trying to say.
Genetics doesn’t play a bigger role than diet does. Genetics doesn’t play ANY role on how active you are or how healthy your weight is.
Now reread what I said.
You go from “it has little if ANY impact on cholesterol to it MAY raise cholesterol but in MANY cases little to no effect, but cholesterol in a diet doesn’t have much effect on an individual it’s all about their genetics that determines how healthy and active they are” At least were getting somewhere here
10 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
My cholesterol levels are perfect and I come from a family that lives well into their 90s and above eating this type of diet. I'm good thanks
Never heard of perfect cholesterol when taking in from outside sources. I think abnormal is the correct definition
You do realize that your body produces much more cholesterol than most people get from their diet. dietary cholesterol actually has very little impact on blood cholesterol, though should be limited if you already have, or are at risk of high cholesterol. the best thing you can do for blood cholesterol is to maintain a healthy weight and live an active lifestyle... a lot of people with cholesterol issues, is due to genetics not diet.
“I do realize” that you “don’t realize” no DIETARY cholesterol benefits the body. The only cholesterol anyone needs is produced by their own bodies. You can’t have high cholesterol on a plant based diet because there is no cholesterol from an outside source. Your own body regulates it. Healthy weight and active lifestyle doesn’t protect you. Heart disease is the number 1 cause of death. Stop eating meat and cheese before it’s too late. Cholesterol issues are due to diet not genetics.
Where did I say it benefits the body? I said it has little if any impact on blood cholesterol.... um, vegetarians can and some do have high cholesterol, even vegans do/can. you really need to provide some peer-reviewed studies that support such claims
Dietary cholesterol RAISES cholesterol in the body. That’s an impact. A negative impact. Vegetarians can have high cholesterol because they’re still eating cholesterol. Look up the difference between a vegan and vegetarian. NO VEGAN can have high cholesterol. There is no outside source. Your body regulates it. Are you denying that high cholesterol doesn’t cause heart disease? And that all dietary cholesterol comes from outside sources?
Genetics plays a bigger role for active healthy weight individuals, than their diet does.
and dietary cholesterol may raise cholesterol, but in many cases has little or no effect
Nah broski genetics doesn’t determine how active you are or your healthy weight. Adherence to a nutritional protocol and consistency training determines how active you are and your healthy weight.
Dietary cholesterol 100% raises cholesterol and 100% IS the cause of heart attacks and strokes. Heart disease is 100% correlated with high cholesterol. Keep saying little or no effect when it has a huge/biggest effect on heart disease.
Wow, reading comprehension fail... where did I say genetics has anything to do with activity level or weight?
I said for active-healthy-weight individuals genetics plays a bigger role than diet for blood cholesterol levels.
Seems like you need to change what people are saying in order for you to rebut. try basing it on what is actually said, not what you think they might be trying to say.
Genetics doesn’t play a bigger role than diet does. Genetics doesn’t play ANY role on how active you are or how healthy your weight is.
Now reread what I said.
You go from “it has little if ANY impact on cholesterol to it MAY raise cholesterol but in MANY cases little to no effect, but cholesterol in a diet doesn’t have much effect on an individual it’s all about their genetics that determines how healthy and active they are” At least were getting somewhere here
I never said genetics had any role in activity or healthy weight... maybe I can put this in simpler terms for you to understand...
For a fit person that is not overweight, genetics plays a bigger role in blood cholesterol than diet does. which is what I said in all of my posts above, in slightly different words.
Why do you keep inferring that I am saying genetics has to do with how active someone is or overweight they are? that has nothing to do with genetics, and I never once, in all of my above posts, said something to that effect.7 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
My cholesterol levels are perfect and I come from a family that lives well into their 90s and above eating this type of diet. I'm good thanks
Never heard of perfect cholesterol when taking in from outside sources. I think abnormal is the correct definition
You do realize that your body produces much more cholesterol than most people get from their diet. dietary cholesterol actually has very little impact on blood cholesterol, though should be limited if you already have, or are at risk of high cholesterol. the best thing you can do for blood cholesterol is to maintain a healthy weight and live an active lifestyle... a lot of people with cholesterol issues, is due to genetics not diet.
“I do realize” that you “don’t realize” no DIETARY cholesterol benefits the body. The only cholesterol anyone needs is produced by their own bodies. You can’t have high cholesterol on a plant based diet because there is no cholesterol from an outside source. Your own body regulates it. Healthy weight and active lifestyle doesn’t protect you. Heart disease is the number 1 cause of death. Stop eating meat and cheese before it’s too late. Cholesterol issues are due to diet not genetics.
Where did I say it benefits the body? I said it has little if any impact on blood cholesterol.... um, vegetarians can and some do have high cholesterol, even vegans do/can. you really need to provide some peer-reviewed studies that support such claims
Dietary cholesterol RAISES cholesterol in the body. That’s an impact. A negative impact. Vegetarians can have high cholesterol because they’re still eating cholesterol. Look up the difference between a vegan and vegetarian. NO VEGAN can have high cholesterol. There is no outside source. Your body regulates it. Are you denying that high cholesterol doesn’t cause heart disease? And that all dietary cholesterol comes from outside sources?
Genetics plays a bigger role for active healthy weight individuals, than their diet does.
and dietary cholesterol may raise cholesterol, but in many cases has little or no effect
Nah broski genetics doesn’t determine how active you are or your healthy weight. Adherence to a nutritional protocol and consistency training determines how active you are and your healthy weight.
Dietary cholesterol 100% raises cholesterol and 100% IS the cause of heart attacks and strokes. Heart disease is 100% correlated with high cholesterol. Keep saying little or no effect when it has a huge/biggest effect on heart disease.
Wow, reading comprehension fail... where did I say genetics has anything to do with activity level or weight?
I said for active-healthy-weight individuals genetics plays a bigger role than diet for blood cholesterol levels.
Seems like you need to change what people are saying in order for you to rebut. try basing it on what is actually said, not what you think they might be trying to say.
Genetics doesn’t play a bigger role than diet does. Genetics doesn’t play ANY role on how active you are or how healthy your weight is.
Now reread what I said.
You go from “it has little if ANY impact on cholesterol to it MAY raise cholesterol but in MANY cases little to no effect, but cholesterol in a diet doesn’t have much effect on an individual it’s all about their genetics that determines how healthy and active they are” At least were getting somewhere here
I never said genetics had any role in activity or healthy weight... maybe I can put this in simpler terms for you to understand...
For a fit person that is not overweight, genetics plays a bigger role in blood cholesterol than diet does. which is what I said in all of my posts above, in slightly different words.
Why do you keep inferring that I am saying genetics has to do with how active someone is or overweight they are? that has nothing to do with genetics, and I never once, in all of my above posts, said something to that effect.
Okay, I understand the point you’re making. I read the sentence as is instead of seeing you were still referring to cholesterol. My bad!
With that being said, for a fit person that is not overweight, genetics does NOT play a bigger role in blood cholesterol than diet does. Diet is the sole determinant on whether you have higher or normal cholesterol.
I’ll make this simple,
No dietary cholesterol = Normal, self regulated cholesterol.
Any added cholesterol (from diet) = Not normal. Automatically increasing chance of heart disease.
There is no other way
11 -
I’m incorrect yet don’t prove a point but say I should look on google or read books...Anyone on the keto diet has to deal with the effects of ketosis. The negatives far outweigh the positive. Why eat solely/primarily fat for energy when you can primarily eat carbs for energy? I’d love to hear some hints that I’m missing
Which part is nonsense and which part is correct fact? Once again I hear that I’m wrong but you can’t tell me which part? Thank you for your help!
Your body, simultaneously, uses energy from multiple sources.
The way your body finds the energy it needs to use depends, in part, on what you're providing to it in terms of fuel (from what you've recently eaten and what may be circulating in your blood) and in part on what energy reserves you have stored (near your muscles, in your liver, or all over your body), plus whatever else I am missing--I am not actually claiming to be an expert; just flat out stating that I am proportionately less wrong than you!
https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/technical-documents/articles/biology/interactive-metabolic-pathways-map.html
The source proportions of the energy your body uses also depends on the "stress" you're applying: whether you're asking for a lot of output in a very short period of time, or if you're asking for it in a more sustained pace. And it depends on the organs that are asking for that output.
You seem to be confused as to what energy sources your body taps to a greater degree most of the time. And in general confused as to what matters and to what degree.
As stated, nothing wrong with being confused. It only becomes wrong when you're publicly trying to push it as correct or preferential.
Edited to provide a picture reference that is more relevant to humans5 -
I’m incorrect yet don’t prove a point but say I should look on google or read books...Anyone on the keto diet has to deal with the effects of ketosis. The negatives far outweigh the positive. Why eat solely/primarily fat for energy when you can primarily eat carbs for energy? I’d love to hear some hints that I’m missing
Which part is nonsense and which part is correct fact? Once again I hear that I’m wrong but you can’t tell me which part? Thank you for your help!
Your body, simultaneously, uses energy from multiple sources.
The way your body finds the energy it needs to use depends, in part, on what you're providing to it in terms of fuel (from what you've recently eaten and what may be circulating in your blood) and in part on what energy reserves you have stored (near your muscles, in your liver, or all over your body), plus whatever else I am missing--I am not actually claiming to be an expert; just flat out stating that I am proportionately less wrong than you!
http://biochemical-pathways.com/#/map/1
The source proportions of the energy your body uses also depends on the "stress" you're applying: whether you're asking for a lot of output in a very short period of time, or if you're asking for it in a more sustained pace. And it depends on the organs that are asking for that output.
You seem to be confused as to what energy sources your body taps to a greater degree most of the time.
Please don’t claim you’re an expert, we can tell. Duh your body uses more things for energy.
What is the #1 fuel source for energy? CARBS
You answered it in your response. I guess I’m confused as to what energy source my body taps into a greater degree most of the time because I’m delusional saying its carbs right?
You’re flat out wrong in a massive proportionate way!
9 -
https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/nutrient-utilization-in-humans-metabolism-pathways-14234029
The article has some references. The three bottom references might be of interest to you @Dtilka
4 -
Dear Members,
As exciting as this conversation is, it would be great if the responses to get back to the OP and not a bunch of people derailing the topic. Yep, I said people. No one person is responsible for 3 pages of off-topic back and forth.
If you'd like to continue arguing about whatever it is you're arguing about, please consider making a new topic and doing it in that topic.
Since we'll likely be dishing out warnings to people who participate in said new topic, please do the mod team the courtesy of making the title somewhat interesting. It's the least you can do if we're going to see it listed in the report queue 15 times.
We'd also like to request that if you are going to insult each other in the new topic, please come up with something creative. It'd be a nice change to write a warning for attacking while laughing instead of cackling with glee shaking our heads.
Remember, when we work together the magic happens, and only you can prevent dumpster fires.
kgeyser
MFP Moderator5 -
I have justifications for those claims, and they aren't so spurious as "hey look at me, I weigh X and I'm vegan". My terminology is not there to imply about me, but to push you on awareness of how much (little?) physiology you know. Kudos for recognizing there is an implication.magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Fat is the preferred substrate while at rest, not carbohydrates - about 60% of energy used I believe. The muscles of the heart, in fact, will only use fat fuel.
The organ that has a preferential use of carbohydrates is the brain because of the blood-brain barrier - glucose can cross it, as can ketones, but fatty acids can't. That is what induces ketosis - the need to continue feeding the brain but glucose is too low in the body.
Deficits allow you to lose total weight and until you are very lean, internal lipid storage is very much the preferential source for that weight. It is the body fat percentage that generally governs what the partition ration is for lost mass.
So long as you are eating at a deficit, you most certainly could eat some lard and lose weight.
So much misinformation. Look up the glycemic index. It’s how quickly carbs are converted into glucose (sugar).
Deficits allow you to lose total weight yes. Yes you can lose weight while eating lard. NOT WHAT WERE TALKING ABOUT. I said FAT makes you FAT. Yes. Yes You will lose weight but gain fat eating lard on a caloric deficit. YES you can burn that fat SOLELY (not burning carbs) if in ketosis thus (Not being fat) . For those of you who haven’t been in ketosis before, it’s very hard to enter because you need to deplete all your carbs.
Does it make sense to put your body in ketosis to burn primarily fat so you can eat lard all day everyday or eat carbs which are a number 1 priority to be burned as fuel and keep the fat to a minimum?
Read everything I wrote before responding please. I literally said "internal lipid storage is very much the preferential source for that weight". Do you know what a lipid is, is that the issue?
Perhaps we can look at it from a math perspective and analyze what it based on compartments in your mental model of body composition?
So let's look at it simply with this compartment model: fats (lipids), dry lean tissue, glycogen (glucose), water, and mineral content.
So let's say someone is using 3,000 calories a day worth of physical and metabolic activity. Let's say for simplification, all they eat that day is 1,000 calories worth of lard. So now that's a 2,000 calorie deficit.
My contentions would be
1. Most of that 2,000 calories will come from depleting internal body fat stores. This will mean the person has lost body fat.
2. A small portion of the 2,000 can come from glycogen stores, but not all of it, and it won't empty all of the person's stores.
3. The person will probably not be in ketosis, and they will have burned fat stores in their body before ever entering ketosis.
4. If the person weights less the next day, that loss will come from a combination of water, lipid, and glycogen loss. From one day very little of the loss will be dry lean tissue or mineral content.
What of these 4 contentions do you disagree with, and what is your alternative explanation for what is going on? If you can't answer the question but can only repeat your claim, I will contend that your mental model isn't modeling reality, which is why it is failing to hold up to scrutiny - instead, your model is based on motivated reasoning for what you want to be true and so far you've only had to hold it up to a superficial challenge of its internal consistency.
Intelligence through sophisticated terminology to imply valid reasoning yet no justification applied to support such claims.
To communicate swiftly to your assertions:
1.If 1000 calories of lard (pure fat) is consumed solely (no carbs), agreed the caloric deficit would burn “lipids” (your fat) for fuel.
2. A 2000 calorie caloric deficit will surely deplete almost all your glycogen stores
3. The person will definitely be in ketosis. No carbs have been consumed/ are present in the body. That is the definition of ketosis. Burning fat solely as fuel because of a lack of carbs.
4. Somewhat agreeable here but you’re forgetting muscle being depleted as energy. Fat will also be the primary fuel. You’re only eating 1k calories of lard.
I ponder the qualifications of your nutritional reasoning. Studying PubMed would increase your scientific capabilities unquestionably.
As for #2 and #3, no. Eating mostly fat will actually spare glycogen at first. Just off the top of my head, I can recall the Kevin Hall study about low carb versus low fat diets where that exactly happened - those eating low carb lost more fat at first as the body spared carbs. I hope you also realize, just rationally, you're undermining your own points on ketosis: if the body is so adverse to being in that condition, wouldn't you expect the body to avoid entering it by sparring carbs?
https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)00350-2
I hope you also realized you're contracting yourself in your response to #2 and #4. A human body's glycogen stores are, on average, about 1 lb, or 400 grams, which would be 1600 calories worth, yet yous said fat will be the primary fuel.
I would only expect the person to be low on glycogen if the 3,000 calories included a fair amount of high intensity work, the kind that forces the body to use glycogen and protein.
As for the first part of #4, a day's activity will use up almost very little muscle tissue, beyond glycogen depletion - actually breaking amino acids down from structures will only ever happen, again, in extreme high intensity cases such as the weird rhabodo workout outs of cross-fitters.
As for pubmed? I would guess you've read some pubmed abstracts from vegan sources with motivated reasoning, but never cracked open an actual physiology textbook. The way you discuss ketosis, and substrate utilization come off as thinking your body is operating as on and off switches, rather than thinking in terms of up and down regulating signals - your body is always using some fats, carbohydrates, and amino acids for cellular processes.10 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »
I have justifications for those claims, and they aren't so spurious as "hey look at me, I weigh X and I'm vegan". My terminology is not there to imply about me, but to push you on awareness of how much (little?) physiology you know. Kudos for recognizing there is an implication.magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Fat is the preferred substrate while at rest, not carbohydrates - about 60% of energy used I believe. The muscles of the heart, in fact, will only use fat fuel.
The organ that has a preferential use of carbohydrates is the brain because of the blood-brain barrier - glucose can cross it, as can ketones, but fatty acids can't. That is what induces ketosis - the need to continue feeding the brain but glucose is too low in the body.
Deficits allow you to lose total weight and until you are very lean, internal lipid storage is very much the preferential source for that weight. It is the body fat percentage that generally governs what the partition ration is for lost mass.
So long as you are eating at a deficit, you most certainly could eat some lard and lose weight.
So much misinformation. Look up the glycemic index. It’s how quickly carbs are converted into glucose (sugar).
Deficits allow you to lose total weight yes. Yes you can lose weight while eating lard. NOT WHAT WERE TALKING ABOUT. I said FAT makes you FAT. Yes. Yes You will lose weight but gain fat eating lard on a caloric deficit. YES you can burn that fat SOLELY (not burning carbs) if in ketosis thus (Not being fat) . For those of you who haven’t been in ketosis before, it’s very hard to enter because you need to deplete all your carbs.
Does it make sense to put your body in ketosis to burn primarily fat so you can eat lard all day everyday or eat carbs which are a number 1 priority to be burned as fuel and keep the fat to a minimum?
Read everything I wrote before responding please. I literally said "internal lipid storage is very much the preferential source for that weight". Do you know what a lipid is, is that the issue?
Perhaps we can look at it from a math perspective and analyze what it based on compartments in your mental model of body composition?
So let's look at it simply with this compartment model: fats (lipids), dry lean tissue, glycogen (glucose), water, and mineral content.
So let's say someone is using 3,000 calories a day worth of physical and metabolic activity. Let's say for simplification, all they eat that day is 1,000 calories worth of lard. So now that's a 2,000 calorie deficit.
My contentions would be
1. Most of that 2,000 calories will come from depleting internal body fat stores. This will mean the person has lost body fat.
2. A small portion of the 2,000 can come from glycogen stores, but not all of it, and it won't empty all of the person's stores.
3. The person will probably not be in ketosis, and they will have burned fat stores in their body before ever entering ketosis.
4. If the person weights less the next day, that loss will come from a combination of water, lipid, and glycogen loss. From one day very little of the loss will be dry lean tissue or mineral content.
What of these 4 contentions do you disagree with, and what is your alternative explanation for what is going on? If you can't answer the question but can only repeat your claim, I will contend that your mental model isn't modeling reality, which is why it is failing to hold up to scrutiny - instead, your model is based on motivated reasoning for what you want to be true and so far you've only had to hold it up to a superficial challenge of its internal consistency.
Intelligence through sophisticated terminology to imply valid reasoning yet no justification applied to support such claims.
To communicate swiftly to your assertions:
1.If 1000 calories of lard (pure fat) is consumed solely (no carbs), agreed the caloric deficit would burn “lipids” (your fat) for fuel.
2. A 2000 calorie caloric deficit will surely deplete almost all your glycogen stores
3. The person will definitely be in ketosis. No carbs have been consumed/ are present in the body. That is the definition of ketosis. Burning fat solely as fuel because of a lack of carbs.
4. Somewhat agreeable here but you’re forgetting muscle being depleted as energy. Fat will also be the primary fuel. You’re only eating 1k calories of lard.
I ponder the qualifications of your nutritional reasoning. Studying PubMed would increase your scientific capabilities unquestionably.
As for #2 and #3, no. Eating mostly fat will actually spare glycogen at first. Just off the top of my head, I can recall the Kevin Hall study about low carb versus low fat diets where that exactly happened - those eating low carb lost more fat at first as the body spared carbs. I hope you also realize, just rationally, you're undermining your own points on ketosis: if the body is so adverse to being in that condition, wouldn't you expect the body to avoid entering it by sparring carbs?
https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)00350-2
I hope you also realized you're contracting yourself in your response to #2 and #4. A human body's glycogen stores are, on average, about 1 lb, or 400 grams, which would be 1600 calories worth, yet yous said fat will be the primary fuel.
I would only expect the person to be low on glycogen if the 3,000 calories included a fair amount of high intensity work, the kind that forces the body to use glycogen and protein.
As for the first part of #4, a day's activity will use up almost very little muscle tissue, beyond glycogen depletion - actually breaking amino acids down from structures will only ever happen, again, in extreme high intensity cases such as the weird rhabodo workout outs of cross-fitters.
As for pubmed? I would guess you've read some pubmed abstracts from vegan sources with motivated reasoning, but never cracked open an actual physiology textbook. The way you discuss ketosis, and substrate utilization come off as thinking your body is operating as on and off switches, rather than thinking in terms of up and down regulating signals - your body is always using some fats, carbohydrates, and amino acids for cellular processes.
Good try. Anecdotal claims have no grounds for validity. Oh and as for the Kevin hall study, his claims on disproving the carbohydrate-insulin hypothesis of obesity have already been refuted.
Keep focused on the specifics of eating a 1k calorie lard diet in a 2k caloric deficit. That will probably help you. Pointless.
And muscle isn’t only depleted by weird rhabodo workouts of cross-fitters. The type of excerise doesn’t have anything to do with how muscle is depleted. And no i don’t do CrossFit. Ever heard of ultra runners? Or cyclists who deplete everything on their 30+ mile rides? Only touching the tip of the iceberg with that.
Funny, I used to not be vegan, for 21 years. I used to think like you, then I started reading meta-analysis, peer reviewed journals, mechanistic data studies and changed my stance to the overwhelming truth in the scientific community.
Yes your body is always using fats, carbs, and protein for cellular processes, that hasn’t been the question. What is the primary source of fuel? CARBS. Unless depleted, then your body will TRIGGER ketosis to burn fat as main fuel source. What’s good fam14 -
Dear Members,
As exciting as this conversation is, it would be great if the responses to get back to the OP and not a bunch of people derailing the topic. Yep, I said people. No one person is responsible for 3 pages of off-topic back and forth.
If you'd like to continue arguing about whatever it is you're arguing about, please consider making a new topic and doing it in that topic.
Since we'll likely be dishing out warnings to people who participate in said new topic, please do the mod team the courtesy of making the title somewhat interesting. It's the least you can do if we're going to see it listed in the report queue 15 times.
We'd also like to request that if you are going to insult each other in the new topic, please come up with something creative. It'd be a nice change to write a warning for attacking while laughing instead of cackling with glee shaking our heads.
Remember, when we work together the magic happens, and only you can prevent dumpster fires.
kgeyser
MFP Moderator
Just saw this, thank you mr moderator, I want to keep it to the topic of how to get a 6 pack losing Bodyfat!
Sorry for the derail!
3 -
It’s amazing the amount of sideways insults you can cram into a response7
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