Control Sugar Intake
Replies
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For anyone thinking that eliminating sugar alone will work, can you answer the question with your mental model of physiology: what happens if you eat 5,000 calories a day worth of fat with absolutely no carbohydrate, just pure lard? If you can't actually gain weight doing this, where does the lard go?10
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magnusthenerd wrote: »For anyone thinking that eliminating sugar alone will work, can you answer the question with your mental model of physiology: what happens if you eat 5,000 calories a day worth of fat with absolutely no carbohydrate, just pure lard? If you can't actually gain weight doing this, where does the lard go?
Mmmm, lard. Can't help myself, reminded me of this.
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RelCanonical wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »For anyone thinking that eliminating sugar alone will work, can you answer the question with your mental model of physiology: what happens if you eat 5,000 calories a day worth of fat with absolutely no carbohydrate, just pure lard? If you can't actually gain weight doing this, where does the lard go?
Mmmm, lard. Can't help myself, reminded me of this.
Yeah, a witty insulin fairy advocate will tell me the lard will end up on the floor from an emetic response.1 -
SoaringOccamy wrote: »First of all, while added sugar has been generally recognised as something to watch the intake of (which is why it has been added as a section on the nutrition label in the US) the sugars that aren't considered to be "added" should be taken into consideration as well. especially if there are a lot of them. For example, sugar from fruit isn't typically considered to be "added" as far as I'm aware, but fruit juice, which contains no "added" sugar has just as much sugar as soda and the sugars are really no different in that form.
The WHO recommendation, which I discussed, counts fruit juice with added sugar (what they call free sugars, likely to indicate it's been removed from the whole food of which the sugar was a part, in the case of juice by removing the fiber).
I've yet to see any credible evidence that fruit itself or other inherent sugars are a concern.
Worth noting that the WHO's issue is excess cals and crowding out nutrients, as well as dental issues, and fruit is not really a problem here. There is other evidence I'd consider credible as to harm over time from truly excessive amounts of free sugars on the liver and (possibly) relating to the development of insulin resistance (although the main factors there are excess body fat and genetic predisposition).So yeah, be aware of total sugars, not just added ones.
Again, what's the evidence that total sugar is an issue if the diet is nutrient-dense and includes sufficient fiber, protein, and healthy fats?
I think I did provide advice above about the best way to reduce added sugar -- eat an overall good, nutrient-dense diet and limit (although no need to eliminate) lower nutrient foods and you won't be eating a lot of added sugar since you won't have room. But if someone wanted more specific advice I'd make it simple: log, see where you are getting your added sugar (unlikely to be a surprise!), and eat fewer of those foods.9 -
SoaringOccamy wrote: »First of all, while added sugar has been generally recognised as something to watch the intake of (which is why it has been added as a section on the nutrition label in the US) the sugars that aren't considered to be "added" should be taken into consideration as well. especially if there are a lot of them. For example, sugar from fruit isn't typically considered to be "added" as far as I'm aware, but fruit juice, which contains no "added" sugar has just as much sugar as soda and the sugars are really no different in that form.
The WHO recommendation, which I discussed, counts fruit juice with added sugar (what they call free sugars, likely to indicate it's been removed from the whole food of which the sugar was a part, in the case of juice by removing the fiber).
I've yet to see any credible evidence that fruit itself or other inherent sugars are a concern.
Worth noting that the WHO's issue is excess cals and crowding out nutrients, as well as dental issues, and fruit is not really a problem here. There is other evidence I'd consider credible as to harm over time from truly excessive amounts of free sugars on the liver and (possibly) relating to the development of insulin resistance (although the main factors there are excess body fat and genetic predisposition).So yeah, be aware of total sugars, not just added ones.
Again, what's the evidence that total sugar is an issue if the diet is nutrient-dense and includes sufficient fiber, protein, and healthy fats?
I think I did provide advice above about the best way to reduce added sugar -- eat an overall good, nutrient-dense diet and limit (although no need to eliminate) lower nutrient foods and you won't be eating a lot of added sugar since you won't have room. But if someone wanted more specific advice I'd make it simple: log, see where you are getting your added sugar (unlikely to be a surprise!), and eat fewer of those foods.
Look it really is simple. Our bodies don’t know the different between sugar from a chocolate bar or sugar from a piece of fruit. It doesn’t care where it comes from. Refined sugar is still sugar but it normally comes with other stuff too such as trans fats.
If we consume too much of anything it’s not good for us. But out of all things we consume, sugar is the most addictive. When we consume sugar it spikes our blood sugar levels which in turn make us more hungry. You can worship your fruit all you like. I don’t care if you believe what I am saying or not. if you are happy eating it and it works for you to consume lots of fruit then fine, great for you. But I have seen people struggle with sugar and fatloss. It works for my clients and I will always recommend removing sugar and fruit for those who struggle until they reach their goal weight.
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lukejoycePT wrote: »SoaringOccamy wrote: »First of all, while added sugar has been generally recognised as something to watch the intake of (which is why it has been added as a section on the nutrition label in the US) the sugars that aren't considered to be "added" should be taken into consideration as well. especially if there are a lot of them. For example, sugar from fruit isn't typically considered to be "added" as far as I'm aware, but fruit juice, which contains no "added" sugar has just as much sugar as soda and the sugars are really no different in that form.
The WHO recommendation, which I discussed, counts fruit juice with added sugar (what they call free sugars, likely to indicate it's been removed from the whole food of which the sugar was a part, in the case of juice by removing the fiber).
I've yet to see any credible evidence that fruit itself or other inherent sugars are a concern.
Worth noting that the WHO's issue is excess cals and crowding out nutrients, as well as dental issues, and fruit is not really a problem here. There is other evidence I'd consider credible as to harm over time from truly excessive amounts of free sugars on the liver and (possibly) relating to the development of insulin resistance (although the main factors there are excess body fat and genetic predisposition).So yeah, be aware of total sugars, not just added ones.
Again, what's the evidence that total sugar is an issue if the diet is nutrient-dense and includes sufficient fiber, protein, and healthy fats?
I think I did provide advice above about the best way to reduce added sugar -- eat an overall good, nutrient-dense diet and limit (although no need to eliminate) lower nutrient foods and you won't be eating a lot of added sugar since you won't have room. But if someone wanted more specific advice I'd make it simple: log, see where you are getting your added sugar (unlikely to be a surprise!), and eat fewer of those foods.
Look it really is simple. Our bodies don’t know the different between sugar from a chocolate bar or sugar from a piece of fruit. It doesn’t care where it comes from. Refined sugar is still sugar but it normally comes with other stuff too such as trans fats.
If we consume too much of anything it’s not good for us. But out of all things we consume, sugar is the most addictive. When we consume sugar it spikes our blood sugar levels which in turn make us more hungry. You can worship your fruit all you like. I don’t care if you believe what I am saying or not. if you are happy eating it and it works for you to consume lots of fruit then fine, great for you. But I have seen people struggle with sugar and fatloss. It works for my clients and I will always recommend removing sugar and fruit for those who struggle until they reach their goal weight.
While it's mostly true that sugar is sugar, some sugars are metabolized differently. Fructose (found in fruit) is metabolized in the liver as opposed to the intestines. Additionally, the absorption rate, and corresponding effect on blood glucose levels and insulin is slower with fruit as compared to pure glucose. Additionally, you have to consider the context of the diet and the other nutrients consumed during the eating window.
It's similar to how not all fatty acids are the same. Long chain triglycerides (LCT) take hours to metabolize and store as energy (and some of them will be oxidized in the process). But Medium Chain Triglycerides (MCT) will metabolize in 30 minutes and done so in the liver (similar to carbs). It's why MCT is recommended to those on a keto or low carb diet when energy is needed for a workout.
Overall, I think most of us are on the same page. It's the semantics that are debatable.5 -
I can only eat so much refined sugar. Some time in my 20s, it just started to taste almost unpleasant to me. I'll enjoy a bite of lots of sugary things, but not the second bite.
I got fat on things like cheese, and chips. And I lost the fat by counting calories, and eating all the carbs I desire and can fit into my calories.6 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »SoaringOccamy wrote: »First of all, while added sugar has been generally recognised as something to watch the intake of (which is why it has been added as a section on the nutrition label in the US) the sugars that aren't considered to be "added" should be taken into consideration as well. especially if there are a lot of them. For example, sugar from fruit isn't typically considered to be "added" as far as I'm aware, but fruit juice, which contains no "added" sugar has just as much sugar as soda and the sugars are really no different in that form.
The WHO recommendation, which I discussed, counts fruit juice with added sugar (what they call free sugars, likely to indicate it's been removed from the whole food of which the sugar was a part, in the case of juice by removing the fiber).
I've yet to see any credible evidence that fruit itself or other inherent sugars are a concern.
Worth noting that the WHO's issue is excess cals and crowding out nutrients, as well as dental issues, and fruit is not really a problem here. There is other evidence I'd consider credible as to harm over time from truly excessive amounts of free sugars on the liver and (possibly) relating to the development of insulin resistance (although the main factors there are excess body fat and genetic predisposition).So yeah, be aware of total sugars, not just added ones.
Again, what's the evidence that total sugar is an issue if the diet is nutrient-dense and includes sufficient fiber, protein, and healthy fats?
I think I did provide advice above about the best way to reduce added sugar -- eat an overall good, nutrient-dense diet and limit (although no need to eliminate) lower nutrient foods and you won't be eating a lot of added sugar since you won't have room. But if someone wanted more specific advice I'd make it simple: log, see where you are getting your added sugar (unlikely to be a surprise!), and eat fewer of those foods.
Look it really is simple. Our bodies don’t know the different between sugar from a chocolate bar or sugar from a piece of fruit. It doesn’t care where it comes from. Refined sugar is still sugar but it normally comes with other stuff too such as trans fats.
If we consume too much of anything it’s not good for us. But out of all things we consume, sugar is the most addictive. When we consume sugar it spikes our blood sugar levels which in turn make us more hungry. You can worship your fruit all you like. I don’t care if you believe what I am saying or not. if you are happy eating it and it works for you to consume lots of fruit then fine, great for you. But I have seen people struggle with sugar and fatloss. It works for my clients and I will always recommend removing sugar and fruit for those who struggle until they reach their goal weight.
How old is the food your clients are eating? The FDA banned artificial trans fats almost a year ago.14 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »SoaringOccamy wrote: »First of all, while added sugar has been generally recognised as something to watch the intake of (which is why it has been added as a section on the nutrition label in the US) the sugars that aren't considered to be "added" should be taken into consideration as well. especially if there are a lot of them. For example, sugar from fruit isn't typically considered to be "added" as far as I'm aware, but fruit juice, which contains no "added" sugar has just as much sugar as soda and the sugars are really no different in that form.
The WHO recommendation, which I discussed, counts fruit juice with added sugar (what they call free sugars, likely to indicate it's been removed from the whole food of which the sugar was a part, in the case of juice by removing the fiber).
I've yet to see any credible evidence that fruit itself or other inherent sugars are a concern.
Worth noting that the WHO's issue is excess cals and crowding out nutrients, as well as dental issues, and fruit is not really a problem here. There is other evidence I'd consider credible as to harm over time from truly excessive amounts of free sugars on the liver and (possibly) relating to the development of insulin resistance (although the main factors there are excess body fat and genetic predisposition).So yeah, be aware of total sugars, not just added ones.
Again, what's the evidence that total sugar is an issue if the diet is nutrient-dense and includes sufficient fiber, protein, and healthy fats?
I think I did provide advice above about the best way to reduce added sugar -- eat an overall good, nutrient-dense diet and limit (although no need to eliminate) lower nutrient foods and you won't be eating a lot of added sugar since you won't have room. But if someone wanted more specific advice I'd make it simple: log, see where you are getting your added sugar (unlikely to be a surprise!), and eat fewer of those foods.
Look it really is simple. Our bodies don’t know the different between sugar from a chocolate bar or sugar from a piece of fruit. It doesn’t care where it comes from. Refined sugar is still sugar but it normally comes with other stuff too such as trans fats.
If we consume too much of anything it’s not good for us. But out of all things we consume, sugar is the most addictive. When we consume sugar it spikes our blood sugar levels which in turn make us more hungry. You can worship your fruit all you like. I don’t care if you believe what I am saying or not. if you are happy eating it and it works for you to consume lots of fruit then fine, great for you. But I have seen people struggle with sugar and fatloss. It works for my clients and I will always recommend removing sugar and fruit for those who struggle until they reach their goal weight.
The sugar itself of course our body can't recognize the difference between one molecule of glucose and another molecule of glucose. If they're the same isotopes of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, there is no known way to discern between the molecules period.
That isn't the same as the health outcomes of eating sugar by eating fruit will have the same health outcomes as eating sugar in a chocolate bar. You yourself hint at some of this when saying the bar could come with things like trans fat.
It also is the same with the addiction aspect. To the extent anyone wants to say certain foods induce overeating - if you want to call that addiction - fruit just isn't there. It would be rather unexpected behavior for someone to say "I just can't limit my fruit intake. Once I have fruit in the house, I have to consume the whole container of it." It simply isn't the sugar simpliciter that produces the behavior you're describing as addictive. Frankly, in the raw by itself, sugar tends to be unpalatable to adults in my experience - I know kids will eat pixie sticks, but I've never known an adult interested in them, particularly to the extent of it being problematic like addictions.9 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »SoaringOccamy wrote: »First of all, while added sugar has been generally recognised as something to watch the intake of (which is why it has been added as a section on the nutrition label in the US) the sugars that aren't considered to be "added" should be taken into consideration as well. especially if there are a lot of them. For example, sugar from fruit isn't typically considered to be "added" as far as I'm aware, but fruit juice, which contains no "added" sugar has just as much sugar as soda and the sugars are really no different in that form.
The WHO recommendation, which I discussed, counts fruit juice with added sugar (what they call free sugars, likely to indicate it's been removed from the whole food of which the sugar was a part, in the case of juice by removing the fiber).
I've yet to see any credible evidence that fruit itself or other inherent sugars are a concern.
Worth noting that the WHO's issue is excess cals and crowding out nutrients, as well as dental issues, and fruit is not really a problem here. There is other evidence I'd consider credible as to harm over time from truly excessive amounts of free sugars on the liver and (possibly) relating to the development of insulin resistance (although the main factors there are excess body fat and genetic predisposition).So yeah, be aware of total sugars, not just added ones.
Again, what's the evidence that total sugar is an issue if the diet is nutrient-dense and includes sufficient fiber, protein, and healthy fats?
I think I did provide advice above about the best way to reduce added sugar -- eat an overall good, nutrient-dense diet and limit (although no need to eliminate) lower nutrient foods and you won't be eating a lot of added sugar since you won't have room. But if someone wanted more specific advice I'd make it simple: log, see where you are getting your added sugar (unlikely to be a surprise!), and eat fewer of those foods.
Look it really is simple. Our bodies don’t know the different between sugar from a chocolate bar or sugar from a piece of fruit. It doesn’t care where it comes from. Refined sugar is still sugar but it normally comes with other stuff too such as trans fats.
I agree that the sugar in fruit is the same as the sugar in a cookie. But what you are missing is that the WHO's (and other) warnings against free sugars is NOT because sugar is somehow dangerous. It's because a high amount of added sugar in the diet is (a) bad for the teeth, (b) likely to correlate with excess calories (including excess calories from the fats the added sugar is usually paired with), and (c) likely to crowd out important nutrients if not combined with excess calories. NONE of that applies to fruit, and thus for the purposes of the WHO (and other such) warnings, the difference between intrinsic sugars (as in veg, fruit, and dairy), and free sugars (as in added sugar, honey/syrup, fruit juice) does matter.
There is another potential issue with sugar, although much less proven -- that excessive sugar can cause damage to the liver (but here we are talking about a much greater degree of excess) and possibly contributes (although to a lesser degree than excess body fat and genetics) to insulin resistance. Again, in neither of these cases is fruit implicated.But out of all things we consume, sugar is the most addictive.
Nope. (Even in those "additiveness" ratings by the people who believe in eating addiction, it is fat+sugar.)When we consume sugar it spikes our blood sugar levels which in turn make us more hungry.
Even if this were true and it was a sugar specific issue (it's not), it would not apply to fruit, which typically does not cause issues even for many with IR so extreme that it's diagnosed as T2D. And for healthy people, not an issue at all.5 -
The WHO and other government bodies recommend limiting added sugars because in general, people who do not control what they are eating, and eat a lot of added sugars, tend to eat more than people who do not eat a lot of added sugar. This is not the same thing as sugar being bad for you or sugar making you fat.
We are all here on a calorie counting website. The freedom of calorie counting is you can ignore the "x is bad" for you recommendations, many of which are made for people who do not measure or control their diets. You do, so you can eat whatever you want as long as doing so doesn't act as a trigger for you. So if you eat a lot of added sugars and find that you have a hard time controlling your appetite, then sure, reducing them is a good thing to look at. But that's not the way it works for everyone.
I recently just did a carbo-load for an event I was doing, and I had to work hard eat enough to hit my daily calorie goal, because I found carbs, whether they were complex, simple, natural sugar, added sugar, etc to be very filling. On the other hand, give me food with high fat content and I can easily blow through my calorie goal if I am not careful.
So in my personal case, there is nothing really necessary with regards to controlling sugars. I do not even pay attention to it. I try to eat a diverse selection of food with a good nutritional balance, but sugary foods can fit fine within that.
That may not be the case for everyone. Control it if you need to control it. But don't just cut things out because you heard it was bad or saw a documentary or a youtube fitness model talk about it.11 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »Interesting that in recent years our sugar consumption has decreased but our weight has increased. What does that little bit of information tell you? For me, I would come to the conclusion that the reason for our increasing obesity levels is that we are eating more and moving less, rather than the types of foods we are eating. If eating foods high in added sugar contribute to you overeating, it makes sense to limit them or cut them out of your diet. If you are the sort of person who finds that having a small sweet treat regularly prevents cravings and helps you stay within your calorie goals then you would be foolish to stop doing this.
Yes ma'am...There are meta analysis showing fruit being slimming.... what's wrong with fruit?4 -
pontious11349 wrote: »"eat meat, vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar" Coach glassman
If you can do this your golden. Chuck in a bit of exercise and the sky is the limit.
Before the keyboard warriors decimate the above, I know there is sugar in fruit. Im talking about the sugar infused processed foods / drinks which are so calorie dense. Nobody ever got fat eating too much watermelon.
If you have time read this: https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/93-greg-glassman-crossfit-and-the-battle-with-big-soda/
I mean... you could get fat eating watermelon by itself, but you would probably explode first...5 -
pontious11349 wrote: »"eat meat, vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar" Coach glassman
If you can do this your golden. Chuck in a bit of exercise and the sky is the limit.
Before the keyboard warriors decimate the above, I know there is sugar in fruit. Im talking about the sugar infused processed foods / drinks which are so calorie dense. Nobody ever got fat eating too much watermelon.
If you have time read this: https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/93-greg-glassman-crossfit-and-the-battle-with-big-soda/
You could 100% get fat just eating the way described in that quote. Some of the most caloric dense food out there are nuts, seeds, and high fat meats.6 -
I know it has been a few days, but I was watching youtube this morning and I saw a video that made me think of this topic. It had what I feel is some great advice on how to go about watching your sugar intake. I thought I would post it here in case the OP is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVmrwzpoicQ&t=293s&ab_channel=TheWholeHappyLife 1 -
ahmedkarem87 wrote: »I have recently watched documentaries on youtube balming sugar for obesity and camung that if we reduced sugar intake to almost zero the problem will be solved. My question is how to control sugar intake espcially those hidden.
I have found controlling the labelled ones gets me 99% away from sugar but doubt sugar is the only problem causing obesity. It is not just what we eat but what we actually digest that counts in the total calories consumed.2
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