Control Sugar Intake
Replies
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lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »ahmedkarem87 wrote: »I have recently watched documentaries on youtube balming sugar for obesity and camung that if we reduced sugar intake to almost zero the problem will be solved. My question is how to control sugar intake espcially those hidden.
Lies. Absolute lies. What did they try and sell you after the video?
Most weeks I average around 100 grams of sugar per day plus another 100-200 grams of other carbs. I like yogurt a lot. I’m not afraid of added sugar either. Lost plenty of weight just fine. It all comes down to being in an overall calorie deficit
It isn't lies actually.
It is wrong of you to make a blanket statement like this buddy. Be careful on the advice you give others based on your experience.
Everyone is different and people react differently to food. You may be able to consume a high sugar diet (not that this is any good for your health) but other people may suffer from insulin sensitivity. Their body type may lean towards holding onto fat more and require a diet lower in sugars. Some may suffer from a slow metabolic rate or damage, a hormonal or gut imbalance. All of these factor into what they can consume and how much.
Having said that, a diet low in sugars and refined carbohydrates is extremely beneficial to health. Sugar causes inflammation in the body and reducing your sugars and only getting it from natural sources is a no brainer.
Speaking of being careful about the advice you give others - what sort of body type do you think someone has that leads to holding onto fat if in a calorie deficit but eating sugar? I don't believe there is any scientific basis to this statement at all!
That's a fair question, Realistically an endomorph would be prone to insulin sensitivity and slow metabolic rate and therefore benefit for a reduction in sugar. To be clear though, Most people do not fit into one of the three body types.
Noone fits into the body types because somatypes have been debunked for quite some time.
Actually Somatypes are based on hard science, While nobody fits exactly into a body type like i stated above it is a good starting point and although you wouldn't label someone as such, the principle still applies. You are focusing on the wrong part of my point. I was stating that some people hold onto fat easier than others which is a fact. It comes down to how the individuals body reacts to insulin.
What you are suggesting is not based on hard science at all - somatyping came about as a method of determining personality traits not nutrition or fitness. They were also only based on Male body types not both genders. Sheldon's has been widely discredited. He used photos of students without their permission, he never interviewed any of the subjects, so all views were based solely on his opinions/assumptions.
Agreed that the actual study was discredited (like many studies) and while it is true ( as i stated several times) that people don't fit strictly to a specific type, people do lean towards a type, it can be helpful. But again, you are focusing on a small part of what i was saying which is based on the individual. This is all related to insulin. My point was that all people are different and just because one guy can eat 100 grams of sugar a day and lose fat doesn't mean that works for everyone.
Neither does assuming everyone has insulin sensitivity and needs to cut out sugar. Unless they have been advised a medical practitioner there is no reason to be scaremongering about sugar.
Sugar is the current enemy of weight loss the same way that Fat was the enemy of weight loss in the 80's.
I am by no means advocating that everyone should sit and eat a bag of sugar every day and guzzle gallons of coke. But why not just aim for moderation? Regarding the OP, like many of the documentaries that have been on Netflix/Youtube etc, chances are there is very little truth to the claims that were made in them.
At what point did I say sugar should be avoided by everybody all of the time?
My advice was to not make a blanket statement. Please re read my first reply
I stand by my blanket statement thank you
Sugar is not the cause of obesity. Over eating calories is.18 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »ahmedkarem87 wrote: »I have recently watched documentaries on youtube balming sugar for obesity and camung that if we reduced sugar intake to almost zero the problem will be solved. My question is how to control sugar intake espcially those hidden.
Lies. Absolute lies. What did they try and sell you after the video?
Most weeks I average around 100 grams of sugar per day plus another 100-200 grams of other carbs. I like yogurt a lot. I’m not afraid of added sugar either. Lost plenty of weight just fine. It all comes down to being in an overall calorie deficit
It isn't lies actually.
It is wrong of you to make a blanket statement like this buddy. Be careful on the advice you give others based on your experience.
Everyone is different and people react differently to food. You may be able to consume a high sugar diet (not that this is any good for your health) but other people may suffer from insulin sensitivity. Their body type may lean towards holding onto fat more and require a diet lower in sugars. Some may suffer from a slow metabolic rate or damage, a hormonal or gut imbalance. All of these factor into what they can consume and how much.
Having said that, a diet low in sugars and refined carbohydrates is extremely beneficial to health. Sugar causes inflammation in the body and reducing your sugars and only getting it from natural sources is a no brainer.
If "everyone is different" then the message the OP took from the YouTube documentaries ("that if we reduced sugar intake to almost zero the problem will be solved") is a lie, because it wouldn't be true for everyone. Kind of like making "a blanket statement," huh?10 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »ahmedkarem87 wrote: »I have recently watched documentaries on youtube balming sugar for obesity and camung that if we reduced sugar intake to almost zero the problem will be solved. My question is how to control sugar intake espcially those hidden.
Lies. Absolute lies. What did they try and sell you after the video?
Most weeks I average around 100 grams of sugar per day plus another 100-200 grams of other carbs. I like yogurt a lot. I’m not afraid of added sugar either. Lost plenty of weight just fine. It all comes down to being in an overall calorie deficit
It isn't lies actually.
It is wrong of you to make a blanket statement like this buddy. Be careful on the advice you give others based on your experience.
Everyone is different and people react differently to food. You may be able to consume a high sugar diet (not that this is any good for your health) but other people may suffer from insulin sensitivity. Their body type may lean towards holding onto fat more and require a diet lower in sugars. Some may suffer from a slow metabolic rate or damage, a hormonal or gut imbalance. All of these factor into what they can consume and how much.
Having said that, a diet low in sugars and refined carbohydrates is extremely beneficial to health. Sugar causes inflammation in the body and reducing your sugars and only getting it from natural sources is a no brainer.
Speaking of being careful about the advice you give others - what sort of body type do you think someone has that leads to holding onto fat if in a calorie deficit but eating sugar? I don't believe there is any scientific basis to this statement at all!
That's a fair question, Realistically an endomorph would be prone to insulin sensitivity and slow metabolic rate and therefore benefit for a reduction in sugar. To be clear though, Most people do not fit into one of the three body types.
Noone fits into the body types because somatypes have been debunked for quite some time.
Actually Somatypes are based on hard science, While nobody fits exactly into a body type like i stated above it is a good starting point and although you wouldn't label someone as such, the principle still applies. You are focusing on the wrong part of my point. I was stating that some people hold onto fat easier than others which is a fact. It comes down to how the individuals body reacts to insulin.
How can something that doesn't actually fit anybody exactly be hard science?10 -
pontious11349 wrote: »"eat meat, vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar" Coach glassman
If you can do this your golden. Chuck in a bit of exercise and the sky is the limit.
Before the keyboard warriors decimate the above, I know there is sugar in fruit. Im talking about the sugar infused processed foods / drinks which are so calorie dense. Nobody ever got fat eating too much watermelon.
If you have time read this: https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/93-greg-glassman-crossfit-and-the-battle-with-big-soda/
Why demonize fish, poultry, eggs, dairy, grains, legumes, and fungi?6 -
ahmedkarem87 wrote: »I have recently watched documentaries on youtube balming sugar for obesity and camung that if we reduced sugar intake to almost zero the problem will be solved. My question is how to control sugar intake espcially those hidden.
In general, documentaries are not a great source of info on their own. They are usually biased, only showing one side of the story, and more focused on grabbing your attention than completely educating you.
Sugar is the current boogeyman of the diet industry. The industry always has to have a boogeyman so they can convince you that you need their help and their products to reach your goals.
High sugar diets can be problematic for weight loss because high sugar foods are high calorie. Calories determine weight gain/loss.
I found that it's much easier to change my diet when I focus on what I need more of rather than less. So I focus on hitting my protein, fat, and fiber goals and try to increase my servings of veggies, fruits, whole grains, and beans & lentils. As long as I stick to my calorie goal while doing this, I end up with less room for "junk food" type treats that could overload mt diet with excess sugar and fat. Mind you, I still eat treats, but everything tends to balance out.
Sugar grams are always listed on the label, they aren't hidden. The best way to avoid "too much" sugar is to build your diet on whole foods and eat treat foods as simply that - treats. If you want to lose weight, start logging your food accurately and consistently, and if you are eating too much sugar, you'll find it is either causing you to eat too many calories or it's crowding out the good stuff you want in your diet. Otherwise, hit those good goals, stay active, and don't sweat the small stuff that the latest diet industry fads usually are
This thread is a great place to start: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1080242/a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants/p1
No need to bash documentaries and documentarians as an entire category just because nutrition-related docs on Netflix and YouTube are so awful.4 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »ahmedkarem87 wrote: »I have recently watched documentaries on youtube balming sugar for obesity and camung that if we reduced sugar intake to almost zero the problem will be solved. My question is how to control sugar intake espcially those hidden.
Lies. Absolute lies. What did they try and sell you after the video?
Most weeks I average around 100 grams of sugar per day plus another 100-200 grams of other carbs. I like yogurt a lot. I’m not afraid of added sugar either. Lost plenty of weight just fine. It all comes down to being in an overall calorie deficit
It isn't lies actually.
It is wrong of you to make a blanket statement like this buddy. Be careful on the advice you give others based on your experience.
Everyone is different and people react differently to food. You may be able to consume a high sugar diet (not that this is any good for your health) but other people may suffer from insulin sensitivity. Their body type may lean towards holding onto fat more and require a diet lower in sugars. Some may suffer from a slow metabolic rate or damage, a hormonal or gut imbalance. All of these factor into what they can consume and how much.
Having said that, a diet low in sugars and refined carbohydrates is extremely beneficial to health. Sugar causes inflammation in the body and reducing your sugars and only getting it from natural sources is a no brainer.
Speaking of being careful about the advice you give others - what sort of body type do you think someone has that leads to holding onto fat if in a calorie deficit but eating sugar? I don't believe there is any scientific basis to this statement at all!
That's a fair question, Realistically an endomorph would be prone to insulin sensitivity and slow metabolic rate and therefore benefit for a reduction in sugar. To be clear though, Most people do not fit into one of the three body types.
Noone fits into the body types because somatypes have been debunked for quite some time.
Actually Somatypes are based on hard science, While nobody fits exactly into a body type like i stated above it is a good starting point and although you wouldn't label someone as such, the principle still applies. You are focusing on the wrong part of my point. I was stating that some people hold onto fat easier than others which is a fact. It comes down to how the individuals body reacts to insulin.
What you are suggesting is not based on hard science at all - somatyping came about as a method of determining personality traits not nutrition or fitness. They were also only based on Male body types not both genders. Sheldon's has been widely discredited. He used photos of students without their permission, he never interviewed any of the subjects, so all views were based solely on his opinions/assumptions.
Agreed that the actual study was discredited (like many studies) and while it is true ( as i stated several times) that people don't fit strictly to a specific type, people do lean towards a type, it can be helpful. But again, you are focusing on a small part of what i was saying which is based on the individual. This is all related to insulin. My point was that all people are different and just because one guy can eat 100 grams of sugar a day and lose fat doesn't mean that works for everyone.
Neither does assuming everyone has insulin sensitivity and needs to cut out sugar. Unless they have been advised a medical practitioner there is no reason to be scaremongering about sugar.
Sugar is the current enemy of weight loss the same way that Fat was the enemy of weight loss in the 80's.
I am by no means advocating that everyone should sit and eat a bag of sugar every day and guzzle gallons of coke. But why not just aim for moderation? Regarding the OP, like many of the documentaries that have been on Netflix/Youtube etc, chances are there is very little truth to the claims that were made in them.
At what point did I say sugar should be avoided by everybody all of the time?
My advice was to not make a blanket statement. Please re read my first reply
You mean like in this post:lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.
Why would you avoid fruit if your goal is weight loss?
Fruit is a good source of fibre, vitamins & minerals. Fibre can help you feel full which in turn can help you better maintain a calorie deficit, which is what is needed for weight loss.
Fruit is mainly sugar. Yes there are also many health benefits to fruit but all of these can be consumed, without the sugar in the form of vegetables. Avoid the fruit while cutting weight will help regulate your insulin.
How is what I have written here not true? Is fruit mainly sugar? YES.
Can you get what you need from vegetables instead of sugar? YES.
Does less sugar in your diet help regulate your insulin? YES
Does insulin directly affect your ability to lose weight? YES
Insulin inhibits lipolysis, it doesn't stop that. And as shown by metabolic ward studies, there is no difference between ketogenic diets and high carb/high sugar diets in terms of fat loss. A body just doesn't chronically maintain high levels of insulin, unless you are type II or Insulin Resistant. And currently in the US only 8% are diagnosed with those conditions with estimates of 33% could have it sometime in their lifespan.
We could argue about this all day long. You show me a study, i show you one. In my experience, and i can say that as i have about 8 years working with all kinds of people, the main issue is sugar. It is so easy to over consume sugar and our daily requirement are small. Once you pass that you create all sorts of issues in your body such as inflammation.
You talk of US stats, a country that has the worst Obesity epidemic in the world where big farma rules. Most of what you read is outdated, sudo science funded by invested interests.
You can not rule out insulin. It plays a huge part in how our bodies process sugar. Not once did i say anything about Keto or going low carb. I simply mention that everyone is different and keeping sugar out of your diet is best for health. Eating lots of sugar is just bad advice and is not best for health.
But there's a big difference between "keeping sugar out of your diet" and "eating lots of sugar". There's a big yummy middle ground full of delicious fruits and veggies and dairy products that supply a plethora of different nutrients, including some stuff we probably haven't even discovered yet.
International guidelines on sugar intake (so not us fat unhealthy lying Americans
) are based on the link between high sugar and high calories and often also mention tooth decay. There is no consensus internationally that insulin is the hot button topic some corners insist it is.
The healthiest and longest-lived areas in the world eat diets centered around veggies, fruits, and whole grains. They are not low sugar, though they are quite high fiber.
Sugar is a big issue in weight loss because many people eat too much treat food and combine that with too little activity. Interestingly, "junk food" often also contains a lot of fat. When someone who is eating a poor diet focuses on reducing sugar (and without meaning too this also lowers the processed fats in their diet), they end up eating less calories, which causes them to lose weight.
first of all, thank you for replying in a non aggressive way.
I agree with everything you have said above and my point in the first post ,where i was basically attacked was that not everyone can have lots of sugar, that everybody is different. That a blanket statement that sugar is totally ok for everybody is incorrect just as saying no sugar for everyone is incorrect.
I did not intend to give off the opinion that i think americans are unhealthy liers lol. I merely meant that the current health system in the states is problematic. And as you mentioned the fast food industry is full of fat as well as sugar and both of these together are a minefield.
But that's not what you did. Go back and read your first post. You said the docs discussed in the OP were not lies -- i.e., you defended them as truthful, when they (at least as characterized by the OP) are messaging blanket statements). But you defended that blanket statement.7 -
pontious11349 wrote: »"eat meat, vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar" Coach glassman
If you can do this your golden. Chuck in a bit of exercise and the sky is the limit.
Before the keyboard warriors decimate the above, I know there is sugar in fruit. Im talking about the sugar infused processed foods / drinks which are so calorie dense. Nobody ever got fat eating too much watermelon.
If you have time read this: https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/93-greg-glassman-crossfit-and-the-battle-with-big-soda/
Guess how I put on weight? I did all that, but volume is important. Eating "healthy" is great, but if you're eating well above what you need to calorie-wise, you will gain. It doesn't matter if you eat all that nutritious stuff or Krispy Kremes. If your net calories are above maintenance (after you exercise... or don't), you will gain weight.
Calories. Matter.
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lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »ahmedkarem87 wrote: »I have recently watched documentaries on youtube balming sugar for obesity and camung that if we reduced sugar intake to almost zero the problem will be solved. My question is how to control sugar intake espcially those hidden.
Lies. Absolute lies. What did they try and sell you after the video?
Most weeks I average around 100 grams of sugar per day plus another 100-200 grams of other carbs. I like yogurt a lot. I’m not afraid of added sugar either. Lost plenty of weight just fine. It all comes down to being in an overall calorie deficit
It isn't lies actually.
It is wrong of you to make a blanket statement like this buddy. Be careful on the advice you give others based on your experience.
Everyone is different and people react differently to food. You may be able to consume a high sugar diet (not that this is any good for your health) but other people may suffer from insulin sensitivity. Their body type may lean towards holding onto fat more and require a diet lower in sugars. Some may suffer from a slow metabolic rate or damage, a hormonal or gut imbalance. All of these factor into what they can consume and how much.
Having said that, a diet low in sugars and refined carbohydrates is extremely beneficial to health. Sugar causes inflammation in the body and reducing your sugars and only getting it from natural sources is a no brainer.
Speaking of being careful about the advice you give others - what sort of body type do you think someone has that leads to holding onto fat if in a calorie deficit but eating sugar? I don't believe there is any scientific basis to this statement at all!
That's a fair question, Realistically an endomorph would be prone to insulin sensitivity and slow metabolic rate and therefore benefit for a reduction in sugar. To be clear though, Most people do not fit into one of the three body types.
Noone fits into the body types because somatypes have been debunked for quite some time.
Actually Somatypes are based on hard science, While nobody fits exactly into a body type like i stated above it is a good starting point and although you wouldn't label someone as such, the principle still applies. You are focusing on the wrong part of my point. I was stating that some people hold onto fat easier than others which is a fact. It comes down to how the individuals body reacts to insulin.
Those are people who eat more calories than they burn.14 -
I'm eating cherries right now...5
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lukejoycePT wrote: »ahmedkarem87 wrote: »I have recently watched documentaries on youtube balming sugar for obesity and camung that if we reduced sugar intake to almost zero the problem will be solved. My question is how to control sugar intake espcially those hidden.
Lies. Absolute lies. What did they try and sell you after the video?
Most weeks I average around 100 grams of sugar per day plus another 100-200 grams of other carbs. I like yogurt a lot. I’m not afraid of added sugar either. Lost plenty of weight just fine. It all comes down to being in an overall calorie deficit
It isn't lies actually.
It is wrong of you to make a blanket statement like this buddy. Be careful on the advice you give others based on your experience.
Everyone is different and people react differently to food. You may be able to consume a high sugar diet (not that this is any good for your health) but other people may suffer from insulin sensitivity. Their body type may lean towards holding onto fat more and require a diet lower in sugars. Some may suffer from a slow metabolic rate or damage, a hormonal or gut imbalance. All of these factor into what they can consume and how much.
Having said that, a diet low in sugars and refined carbohydrates is extremely beneficial to health. Sugar causes inflammation in the body and reducing your sugars and only getting it from natural sources is a no brainer.
Just nitpicking a bit, but if someone is insulin sensitive, then they need less insulin to process the same amount of glucose as someone who isn't. Insulin sensitivity is actually a good thing.
What you mean is insulin resistance, meaning the body needs more insulin than the average to process the same amount of glucose as someone who isn't. Insulin resistance isn't actually a good thing. It often can be remedied by losing weight (if the sufferer is overweight) and incorporating regular physical activity into the week (ideally daily, but let's not get carried away).
Not ingesting sugar (even in the form of fruit) is only helpful in so far as it puts someone into the necessary calorie deficit to lose weight, which in turn will help regularize glucose metabolism, including reaction to insulin. Then again, it's not very helpful if it is not sustainable for the person in question. Sustainability in keeping that necessary calorie deficit tends to trump any minoring - such as worrying over much about insulin or sugar.
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For anyone thinking that eliminating sugar alone will work, can you answer the question with your mental model of physiology: what happens if you eat 5,000 calories a day worth of fat with absolutely no carbohydrate, just pure lard? If you can't actually gain weight doing this, where does the lard go?10
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magnusthenerd wrote: »For anyone thinking that eliminating sugar alone will work, can you answer the question with your mental model of physiology: what happens if you eat 5,000 calories a day worth of fat with absolutely no carbohydrate, just pure lard? If you can't actually gain weight doing this, where does the lard go?
Mmmm, lard. Can't help myself, reminded me of this.
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RelCanonical wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »For anyone thinking that eliminating sugar alone will work, can you answer the question with your mental model of physiology: what happens if you eat 5,000 calories a day worth of fat with absolutely no carbohydrate, just pure lard? If you can't actually gain weight doing this, where does the lard go?
Mmmm, lard. Can't help myself, reminded me of this.
Yeah, a witty insulin fairy advocate will tell me the lard will end up on the floor from an emetic response.1 -
SoaringOccamy wrote: »First of all, while added sugar has been generally recognised as something to watch the intake of (which is why it has been added as a section on the nutrition label in the US) the sugars that aren't considered to be "added" should be taken into consideration as well. especially if there are a lot of them. For example, sugar from fruit isn't typically considered to be "added" as far as I'm aware, but fruit juice, which contains no "added" sugar has just as much sugar as soda and the sugars are really no different in that form.
The WHO recommendation, which I discussed, counts fruit juice with added sugar (what they call free sugars, likely to indicate it's been removed from the whole food of which the sugar was a part, in the case of juice by removing the fiber).
I've yet to see any credible evidence that fruit itself or other inherent sugars are a concern.
Worth noting that the WHO's issue is excess cals and crowding out nutrients, as well as dental issues, and fruit is not really a problem here. There is other evidence I'd consider credible as to harm over time from truly excessive amounts of free sugars on the liver and (possibly) relating to the development of insulin resistance (although the main factors there are excess body fat and genetic predisposition).So yeah, be aware of total sugars, not just added ones.
Again, what's the evidence that total sugar is an issue if the diet is nutrient-dense and includes sufficient fiber, protein, and healthy fats?
I think I did provide advice above about the best way to reduce added sugar -- eat an overall good, nutrient-dense diet and limit (although no need to eliminate) lower nutrient foods and you won't be eating a lot of added sugar since you won't have room. But if someone wanted more specific advice I'd make it simple: log, see where you are getting your added sugar (unlikely to be a surprise!), and eat fewer of those foods.9 -
SoaringOccamy wrote: »First of all, while added sugar has been generally recognised as something to watch the intake of (which is why it has been added as a section on the nutrition label in the US) the sugars that aren't considered to be "added" should be taken into consideration as well. especially if there are a lot of them. For example, sugar from fruit isn't typically considered to be "added" as far as I'm aware, but fruit juice, which contains no "added" sugar has just as much sugar as soda and the sugars are really no different in that form.
The WHO recommendation, which I discussed, counts fruit juice with added sugar (what they call free sugars, likely to indicate it's been removed from the whole food of which the sugar was a part, in the case of juice by removing the fiber).
I've yet to see any credible evidence that fruit itself or other inherent sugars are a concern.
Worth noting that the WHO's issue is excess cals and crowding out nutrients, as well as dental issues, and fruit is not really a problem here. There is other evidence I'd consider credible as to harm over time from truly excessive amounts of free sugars on the liver and (possibly) relating to the development of insulin resistance (although the main factors there are excess body fat and genetic predisposition).So yeah, be aware of total sugars, not just added ones.
Again, what's the evidence that total sugar is an issue if the diet is nutrient-dense and includes sufficient fiber, protein, and healthy fats?
I think I did provide advice above about the best way to reduce added sugar -- eat an overall good, nutrient-dense diet and limit (although no need to eliminate) lower nutrient foods and you won't be eating a lot of added sugar since you won't have room. But if someone wanted more specific advice I'd make it simple: log, see where you are getting your added sugar (unlikely to be a surprise!), and eat fewer of those foods.
Look it really is simple. Our bodies don’t know the different between sugar from a chocolate bar or sugar from a piece of fruit. It doesn’t care where it comes from. Refined sugar is still sugar but it normally comes with other stuff too such as trans fats.
If we consume too much of anything it’s not good for us. But out of all things we consume, sugar is the most addictive. When we consume sugar it spikes our blood sugar levels which in turn make us more hungry. You can worship your fruit all you like. I don’t care if you believe what I am saying or not. if you are happy eating it and it works for you to consume lots of fruit then fine, great for you. But I have seen people struggle with sugar and fatloss. It works for my clients and I will always recommend removing sugar and fruit for those who struggle until they reach their goal weight.
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lukejoycePT wrote: »SoaringOccamy wrote: »First of all, while added sugar has been generally recognised as something to watch the intake of (which is why it has been added as a section on the nutrition label in the US) the sugars that aren't considered to be "added" should be taken into consideration as well. especially if there are a lot of them. For example, sugar from fruit isn't typically considered to be "added" as far as I'm aware, but fruit juice, which contains no "added" sugar has just as much sugar as soda and the sugars are really no different in that form.
The WHO recommendation, which I discussed, counts fruit juice with added sugar (what they call free sugars, likely to indicate it's been removed from the whole food of which the sugar was a part, in the case of juice by removing the fiber).
I've yet to see any credible evidence that fruit itself or other inherent sugars are a concern.
Worth noting that the WHO's issue is excess cals and crowding out nutrients, as well as dental issues, and fruit is not really a problem here. There is other evidence I'd consider credible as to harm over time from truly excessive amounts of free sugars on the liver and (possibly) relating to the development of insulin resistance (although the main factors there are excess body fat and genetic predisposition).So yeah, be aware of total sugars, not just added ones.
Again, what's the evidence that total sugar is an issue if the diet is nutrient-dense and includes sufficient fiber, protein, and healthy fats?
I think I did provide advice above about the best way to reduce added sugar -- eat an overall good, nutrient-dense diet and limit (although no need to eliminate) lower nutrient foods and you won't be eating a lot of added sugar since you won't have room. But if someone wanted more specific advice I'd make it simple: log, see where you are getting your added sugar (unlikely to be a surprise!), and eat fewer of those foods.
Look it really is simple. Our bodies don’t know the different between sugar from a chocolate bar or sugar from a piece of fruit. It doesn’t care where it comes from. Refined sugar is still sugar but it normally comes with other stuff too such as trans fats.
If we consume too much of anything it’s not good for us. But out of all things we consume, sugar is the most addictive. When we consume sugar it spikes our blood sugar levels which in turn make us more hungry. You can worship your fruit all you like. I don’t care if you believe what I am saying or not. if you are happy eating it and it works for you to consume lots of fruit then fine, great for you. But I have seen people struggle with sugar and fatloss. It works for my clients and I will always recommend removing sugar and fruit for those who struggle until they reach their goal weight.
While it's mostly true that sugar is sugar, some sugars are metabolized differently. Fructose (found in fruit) is metabolized in the liver as opposed to the intestines. Additionally, the absorption rate, and corresponding effect on blood glucose levels and insulin is slower with fruit as compared to pure glucose. Additionally, you have to consider the context of the diet and the other nutrients consumed during the eating window.
It's similar to how not all fatty acids are the same. Long chain triglycerides (LCT) take hours to metabolize and store as energy (and some of them will be oxidized in the process). But Medium Chain Triglycerides (MCT) will metabolize in 30 minutes and done so in the liver (similar to carbs). It's why MCT is recommended to those on a keto or low carb diet when energy is needed for a workout.
Overall, I think most of us are on the same page. It's the semantics that are debatable.5 -
I can only eat so much refined sugar. Some time in my 20s, it just started to taste almost unpleasant to me. I'll enjoy a bite of lots of sugary things, but not the second bite.
I got fat on things like cheese, and chips. And I lost the fat by counting calories, and eating all the carbs I desire and can fit into my calories.6 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »SoaringOccamy wrote: »First of all, while added sugar has been generally recognised as something to watch the intake of (which is why it has been added as a section on the nutrition label in the US) the sugars that aren't considered to be "added" should be taken into consideration as well. especially if there are a lot of them. For example, sugar from fruit isn't typically considered to be "added" as far as I'm aware, but fruit juice, which contains no "added" sugar has just as much sugar as soda and the sugars are really no different in that form.
The WHO recommendation, which I discussed, counts fruit juice with added sugar (what they call free sugars, likely to indicate it's been removed from the whole food of which the sugar was a part, in the case of juice by removing the fiber).
I've yet to see any credible evidence that fruit itself or other inherent sugars are a concern.
Worth noting that the WHO's issue is excess cals and crowding out nutrients, as well as dental issues, and fruit is not really a problem here. There is other evidence I'd consider credible as to harm over time from truly excessive amounts of free sugars on the liver and (possibly) relating to the development of insulin resistance (although the main factors there are excess body fat and genetic predisposition).So yeah, be aware of total sugars, not just added ones.
Again, what's the evidence that total sugar is an issue if the diet is nutrient-dense and includes sufficient fiber, protein, and healthy fats?
I think I did provide advice above about the best way to reduce added sugar -- eat an overall good, nutrient-dense diet and limit (although no need to eliminate) lower nutrient foods and you won't be eating a lot of added sugar since you won't have room. But if someone wanted more specific advice I'd make it simple: log, see where you are getting your added sugar (unlikely to be a surprise!), and eat fewer of those foods.
Look it really is simple. Our bodies don’t know the different between sugar from a chocolate bar or sugar from a piece of fruit. It doesn’t care where it comes from. Refined sugar is still sugar but it normally comes with other stuff too such as trans fats.
If we consume too much of anything it’s not good for us. But out of all things we consume, sugar is the most addictive. When we consume sugar it spikes our blood sugar levels which in turn make us more hungry. You can worship your fruit all you like. I don’t care if you believe what I am saying or not. if you are happy eating it and it works for you to consume lots of fruit then fine, great for you. But I have seen people struggle with sugar and fatloss. It works for my clients and I will always recommend removing sugar and fruit for those who struggle until they reach their goal weight.
How old is the food your clients are eating? The FDA banned artificial trans fats almost a year ago.14 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »SoaringOccamy wrote: »First of all, while added sugar has been generally recognised as something to watch the intake of (which is why it has been added as a section on the nutrition label in the US) the sugars that aren't considered to be "added" should be taken into consideration as well. especially if there are a lot of them. For example, sugar from fruit isn't typically considered to be "added" as far as I'm aware, but fruit juice, which contains no "added" sugar has just as much sugar as soda and the sugars are really no different in that form.
The WHO recommendation, which I discussed, counts fruit juice with added sugar (what they call free sugars, likely to indicate it's been removed from the whole food of which the sugar was a part, in the case of juice by removing the fiber).
I've yet to see any credible evidence that fruit itself or other inherent sugars are a concern.
Worth noting that the WHO's issue is excess cals and crowding out nutrients, as well as dental issues, and fruit is not really a problem here. There is other evidence I'd consider credible as to harm over time from truly excessive amounts of free sugars on the liver and (possibly) relating to the development of insulin resistance (although the main factors there are excess body fat and genetic predisposition).So yeah, be aware of total sugars, not just added ones.
Again, what's the evidence that total sugar is an issue if the diet is nutrient-dense and includes sufficient fiber, protein, and healthy fats?
I think I did provide advice above about the best way to reduce added sugar -- eat an overall good, nutrient-dense diet and limit (although no need to eliminate) lower nutrient foods and you won't be eating a lot of added sugar since you won't have room. But if someone wanted more specific advice I'd make it simple: log, see where you are getting your added sugar (unlikely to be a surprise!), and eat fewer of those foods.
Look it really is simple. Our bodies don’t know the different between sugar from a chocolate bar or sugar from a piece of fruit. It doesn’t care where it comes from. Refined sugar is still sugar but it normally comes with other stuff too such as trans fats.
If we consume too much of anything it’s not good for us. But out of all things we consume, sugar is the most addictive. When we consume sugar it spikes our blood sugar levels which in turn make us more hungry. You can worship your fruit all you like. I don’t care if you believe what I am saying or not. if you are happy eating it and it works for you to consume lots of fruit then fine, great for you. But I have seen people struggle with sugar and fatloss. It works for my clients and I will always recommend removing sugar and fruit for those who struggle until they reach their goal weight.
The sugar itself of course our body can't recognize the difference between one molecule of glucose and another molecule of glucose. If they're the same isotopes of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, there is no known way to discern between the molecules period.
That isn't the same as the health outcomes of eating sugar by eating fruit will have the same health outcomes as eating sugar in a chocolate bar. You yourself hint at some of this when saying the bar could come with things like trans fat.
It also is the same with the addiction aspect. To the extent anyone wants to say certain foods induce overeating - if you want to call that addiction - fruit just isn't there. It would be rather unexpected behavior for someone to say "I just can't limit my fruit intake. Once I have fruit in the house, I have to consume the whole container of it." It simply isn't the sugar simpliciter that produces the behavior you're describing as addictive. Frankly, in the raw by itself, sugar tends to be unpalatable to adults in my experience - I know kids will eat pixie sticks, but I've never known an adult interested in them, particularly to the extent of it being problematic like addictions.9 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »SoaringOccamy wrote: »First of all, while added sugar has been generally recognised as something to watch the intake of (which is why it has been added as a section on the nutrition label in the US) the sugars that aren't considered to be "added" should be taken into consideration as well. especially if there are a lot of them. For example, sugar from fruit isn't typically considered to be "added" as far as I'm aware, but fruit juice, which contains no "added" sugar has just as much sugar as soda and the sugars are really no different in that form.
The WHO recommendation, which I discussed, counts fruit juice with added sugar (what they call free sugars, likely to indicate it's been removed from the whole food of which the sugar was a part, in the case of juice by removing the fiber).
I've yet to see any credible evidence that fruit itself or other inherent sugars are a concern.
Worth noting that the WHO's issue is excess cals and crowding out nutrients, as well as dental issues, and fruit is not really a problem here. There is other evidence I'd consider credible as to harm over time from truly excessive amounts of free sugars on the liver and (possibly) relating to the development of insulin resistance (although the main factors there are excess body fat and genetic predisposition).So yeah, be aware of total sugars, not just added ones.
Again, what's the evidence that total sugar is an issue if the diet is nutrient-dense and includes sufficient fiber, protein, and healthy fats?
I think I did provide advice above about the best way to reduce added sugar -- eat an overall good, nutrient-dense diet and limit (although no need to eliminate) lower nutrient foods and you won't be eating a lot of added sugar since you won't have room. But if someone wanted more specific advice I'd make it simple: log, see where you are getting your added sugar (unlikely to be a surprise!), and eat fewer of those foods.
Look it really is simple. Our bodies don’t know the different between sugar from a chocolate bar or sugar from a piece of fruit. It doesn’t care where it comes from. Refined sugar is still sugar but it normally comes with other stuff too such as trans fats.
I agree that the sugar in fruit is the same as the sugar in a cookie. But what you are missing is that the WHO's (and other) warnings against free sugars is NOT because sugar is somehow dangerous. It's because a high amount of added sugar in the diet is (a) bad for the teeth, (b) likely to correlate with excess calories (including excess calories from the fats the added sugar is usually paired with), and (c) likely to crowd out important nutrients if not combined with excess calories. NONE of that applies to fruit, and thus for the purposes of the WHO (and other such) warnings, the difference between intrinsic sugars (as in veg, fruit, and dairy), and free sugars (as in added sugar, honey/syrup, fruit juice) does matter.
There is another potential issue with sugar, although much less proven -- that excessive sugar can cause damage to the liver (but here we are talking about a much greater degree of excess) and possibly contributes (although to a lesser degree than excess body fat and genetics) to insulin resistance. Again, in neither of these cases is fruit implicated.But out of all things we consume, sugar is the most addictive.
Nope. (Even in those "additiveness" ratings by the people who believe in eating addiction, it is fat+sugar.)When we consume sugar it spikes our blood sugar levels which in turn make us more hungry.
Even if this were true and it was a sugar specific issue (it's not), it would not apply to fruit, which typically does not cause issues even for many with IR so extreme that it's diagnosed as T2D. And for healthy people, not an issue at all.5 -
The WHO and other government bodies recommend limiting added sugars because in general, people who do not control what they are eating, and eat a lot of added sugars, tend to eat more than people who do not eat a lot of added sugar. This is not the same thing as sugar being bad for you or sugar making you fat.
We are all here on a calorie counting website. The freedom of calorie counting is you can ignore the "x is bad" for you recommendations, many of which are made for people who do not measure or control their diets. You do, so you can eat whatever you want as long as doing so doesn't act as a trigger for you. So if you eat a lot of added sugars and find that you have a hard time controlling your appetite, then sure, reducing them is a good thing to look at. But that's not the way it works for everyone.
I recently just did a carbo-load for an event I was doing, and I had to work hard eat enough to hit my daily calorie goal, because I found carbs, whether they were complex, simple, natural sugar, added sugar, etc to be very filling. On the other hand, give me food with high fat content and I can easily blow through my calorie goal if I am not careful.
So in my personal case, there is nothing really necessary with regards to controlling sugars. I do not even pay attention to it. I try to eat a diverse selection of food with a good nutritional balance, but sugary foods can fit fine within that.
That may not be the case for everyone. Control it if you need to control it. But don't just cut things out because you heard it was bad or saw a documentary or a youtube fitness model talk about it.11 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »Interesting that in recent years our sugar consumption has decreased but our weight has increased. What does that little bit of information tell you? For me, I would come to the conclusion that the reason for our increasing obesity levels is that we are eating more and moving less, rather than the types of foods we are eating. If eating foods high in added sugar contribute to you overeating, it makes sense to limit them or cut them out of your diet. If you are the sort of person who finds that having a small sweet treat regularly prevents cravings and helps you stay within your calorie goals then you would be foolish to stop doing this.
Yes ma'am...There are meta analysis showing fruit being slimming.... what's wrong with fruit?4 -
pontious11349 wrote: »"eat meat, vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar" Coach glassman
If you can do this your golden. Chuck in a bit of exercise and the sky is the limit.
Before the keyboard warriors decimate the above, I know there is sugar in fruit. Im talking about the sugar infused processed foods / drinks which are so calorie dense. Nobody ever got fat eating too much watermelon.
If you have time read this: https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/93-greg-glassman-crossfit-and-the-battle-with-big-soda/
I mean... you could get fat eating watermelon by itself, but you would probably explode first...5 -
pontious11349 wrote: »"eat meat, vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar" Coach glassman
If you can do this your golden. Chuck in a bit of exercise and the sky is the limit.
Before the keyboard warriors decimate the above, I know there is sugar in fruit. Im talking about the sugar infused processed foods / drinks which are so calorie dense. Nobody ever got fat eating too much watermelon.
If you have time read this: https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/93-greg-glassman-crossfit-and-the-battle-with-big-soda/
You could 100% get fat just eating the way described in that quote. Some of the most caloric dense food out there are nuts, seeds, and high fat meats.6 -
I know it has been a few days, but I was watching youtube this morning and I saw a video that made me think of this topic. It had what I feel is some great advice on how to go about watching your sugar intake. I thought I would post it here in case the OP is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVmrwzpoicQ&t=293s&ab_channel=TheWholeHappyLife 1 -
ahmedkarem87 wrote: »I have recently watched documentaries on youtube balming sugar for obesity and camung that if we reduced sugar intake to almost zero the problem will be solved. My question is how to control sugar intake espcially those hidden.
I have found controlling the labelled ones gets me 99% away from sugar but doubt sugar is the only problem causing obesity. It is not just what we eat but what we actually digest that counts in the total calories consumed.2
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