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The sugar problem
Replies
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VictoryGarden wrote: »For those of us who have an insulin resistance problem, even in the absence of diabetes CURRENTLY, we DO have to watch our sugar, fructose, and artificial sweeteners. I try to keep mine under 12-15 g a day for ALL sweeteners and sugars that occur naturally.
I am very excited to know that there are people out there that do NOT have this problem, and am happy to hear of all of your success stories. I wish I was like you.
Unfortunately, I am not.
For either side to to blanket say, "everyone must avoid sugar" or "sugar isn't a problem, only calories count", each is a very blinded view. There are people who shouldn't eat much sugar at all, and there are others that have no issue with eating as much as they want. We are all individuals, and must tailor our way of eating to reflect our individual health requirements.
But the OP was about losing/gaining weight, not health. If you look at threads here where people are asking about sugar levels for a healthy diet or that sort of thing, you will find plenty of us adding a caveat for those with medical issues. The OP's post is factually wrong, full stop. Whether or not someone has IR or diabetes, the presence of too much sugar in their diet will not cause weight gain regardless of calories. It might cause a health problem for them, no one here was saying it wouldn't.9 -
Yeah okay2
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VictoryGarden wrote: »For those of us who have an insulin resistance problem, even in the absence of diabetes CURRENTLY, we DO have to watch our sugar, fructose, and artificial sweeteners. I try to keep mine under 12-15 g a day for ALL sweeteners and sugars that occur naturally.
I am very excited to know that there are people out there that do NOT have this problem, and am happy to hear of all of your success stories. I wish I was like you. Unfortunately, I am not.
For either side to to blanket say, "everyone must avoid sugar" or "sugar isn't a problem, only calories count", each is a very blinded view. There are people who shouldn't eat much sugar at all, and there are others that have no issue with eating as much as they want. We are all individuals, and must tailor our way of eating to reflect our individual health requirements.
But the OP was about losing/gaining weight, not health. If you look at threads here where people are asking about sugar levels for a healthy diet or that sort of thing, you will find plenty of us adding a caveat for those with medical issues. The OP's post is factually wrong, full stop. Whether or not someone has IR or diabetes, the presence of too much sugar in their diet will not cause weight gain regardless of calories. It might cause a health problem for them, no one here was saying it wouldn't.
Yes exactly.
Have never seen thread where OP says I am diabetic, could you recomend some low sugar snacks (for example)
and then posters jump in saying sugars dont matter.
But blanket recomendations like this thread where OP told everyone to closely monitor their sugar intake and keep it extremely low and that counting calories doesnt matter if you consume over 30g sugar per day - that is not at all correct and people replied to say so.
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Okaaaaaay - here we go !
1. Both the WHO and the NHS recommend limiting ADDED sugar in anyones diet. From the NHS, the limit recommended is 30g per day for everyone over the age of 11 without any other criteria.That excludes fruit and veg but includes fruit juices.
2. Sugar has limited / if any nutritional value - this does not detract from the fact that its yummy.
3. T2 diabetes is considered the most signficant health crisis in the UK currently and it doesnt turn up overnight. Yes it as a lot to do with fat, internally and externally but it doesnt happen in a sugarless void. Sugar (note not carbs) consumption has a correlation to the development of T2 diabetes.
4. Dentists would love us all to eat less - the first person to notice when I dropped my added sugar consumption down was my dentist (appreciate us Brits have a bad rep on the teeth front in general !).
I do think we have quite the regional difference when it comes to sugar with the US side of the board seeing it as less of an issue. Thats not a criticism or a judgement and I hope we can respect our differences on this.10 -
OooohToast wrote: »Okaaaaaay - here we go !
1. Both the WHO and the NHS recommend limiting ADDED sugar in anyones diet. From the NHS, the limit recommended is 30g per day for everyone over the age of 11 without any other criteria.That excludes fruit and veg but includes fruit juices.
2. Sugar has limited / if any nutritional value - this does not detract from the fact that its yummy.
3. T2 diabetes is considered the most signficant health crisis in the UK currently and it doesnt turn up overnight. Yes it as a lot to do with fat, internally and externally but it doesnt happen in a sugarless void. Sugar (note not carbs) consumption has a correlation to the development of T2 diabetes.
4. Dentists would love us all to eat less - the first person to notice when I dropped my added sugar consumption down was my dentist (appreciate us Brits have a bad rep on the teeth front in general !).
I do think we have quite the regional difference when it comes to sugar with the US side of the board seeing it as less of an issue. Thats not a criticism or a judgement and I hope we can respect our differences on this.
To answer these:
1. The recommendation to limit added sugar is due to the correlation between foods high in added sugar and in-taking more calories on an unrestricted eating diet. Basically, if you just eat until you are full, and you eat a lot of added sugar, statistically you will likely eat more calories than someone who does not eat added sugar. So for people who just eat until they are full, that is a sensible recommendation. But for calorie counters, we know how many calories we are putting in our body. So the need to restrict added sugar only comes into play if you find that when you eat a lot of it, you have trouble controlling your appetite and are prone to eating through your goals. This is not the case for everyone though. Since we have more data than the average person, we can personalize our own recommendations on this, and do not need to take the general recommendations if they are not applicable.
2. Sugar is a source of energy just like other sources of calories. It fuels your body. "Nutrition" largely comes from other things such as vitamins and minerals. Sugary foods can either be nutritious or non nutritious depending on what they are. Fruits are sugary and very nutritious. Starburst candy is not nutritious. A lot of foods with added sugar tend not to be very nutritious, but it may not always be the case.
3. Sugar is not a cause T2 diabetes. Obesity is. Your own NHS says so https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eating-with-diabetes/diabetes-food-myths/myth-sugar-causes-diabetes. So if eating a lot of sugary foods is causing you to be obese, then yes, it can be a problem. But so can fat or other carbs or protein or whatever you eat to create a calorie surplus.
4. Yes dental health is one area that sugar does affect. So depending on how peoples dental health is, it's a consideration.
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OooohToast wrote: »Okaaaaaay - here we go !
1. Both the WHO and the NHS recommend limiting ADDED sugar in anyones diet. From the NHS, the limit recommended is 30g per day for everyone over the age of 11 without any other criteria.That excludes fruit and veg but includes fruit juices.
2. Sugar has limited / if any nutritional value - this does not detract from the fact that its yummy.
3. T2 diabetes is considered the most signficant health crisis in the UK currently and it doesnt turn up overnight. Yes it as a lot to do with fat, internally and externally but it doesnt happen in a sugarless void. Sugar (note not carbs) consumption has a correlation to the development of T2 diabetes.
4. Dentists would love us all to eat less - the first person to notice when I dropped my added sugar consumption down was my dentist (appreciate us Brits have a bad rep on the teeth front in general !).
I do think we have quite the regional difference when it comes to sugar with the US side of the board seeing it as less of an issue. Thats not a criticism or a judgement and I hope we can respect our differences on this.
I think it would have been helpful for the OP to distinguish between added sugar and all sugar, since it is not clear at all they were referring only to added sugar in the original post.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on all your points from a health and nutrition perspective (and I'm on the US side!), but your post is a far more nuanced and reasonable position than OP's "calories don't matter if you're getting more than 30+ grams of sugar". Yes, calories do matter when it comes to weight loss, and limiting added sugar does matter when it comes to a nutritious and healthy diet. You can certainly lose weight on a Twinkie and junk food diet by limiting calories and not caring what the sugar is....but I don't think anyone would argue that is nutritious or healthy. Words matter. 1 -
OooohToast wrote: »Okaaaaaay - here we go !
1. Both the WHO and the NHS recommend limiting ADDED sugar in anyones diet. From the NHS, the limit recommended is 30g per day for everyone over the age of 11 without any other criteria.That excludes fruit and veg but includes fruit juices.
2. Sugar has limited / if any nutritional value - this does not detract from the fact that its yummy.
3. T2 diabetes is considered the most signficant health crisis in the UK currently and it doesnt turn up overnight. Yes it as a lot to do with fat, internally and externally but it doesnt happen in a sugarless void. Sugar (note not carbs) consumption has a correlation to the development of T2 diabetes.
4. Dentists would love us all to eat less - the first person to notice when I dropped my added sugar consumption down was my dentist (appreciate us Brits have a bad rep on the teeth front in general !).
I do think we have quite the regional difference when it comes to sugar with the US side of the board seeing it as less of an issue. Thats not a criticism or a judgement and I hope we can respect our differences on this.
I think it would have been helpful for the OP to distinguish between added sugar and all sugar, since it is not clear at all they were referring only to added sugar in the original post.
I don't think OP was at all limiting the post to added sugar, and the later poster arguing in favor of OP's post was talking about all sugar and expanded it to carbs. [Edit: oops, I guess that was the other identical thread OP started. Can't blame me for getting confused.]
Many of us who responded specifically discussed eating veg and fruit, of course, as one reason the advice was bad, so I don't understand how one could read the discussion as us all saying "added sugar is great in any numbers." People did, of course, disagree with specific points made by OP, so if the newer poster thinks those are incorrect, it would be helpful to address specific incorrect points and not to accuse us (all of us here in the US who responded, and maybe the Canadians too, don't know about the UK responders) of saying things we did not.2 -
Okay, it appears the thread where another poster was insisting that ALL sugar, and meaning all net carbs, was the identical one started elsewhere, but:OooohToast wrote: »Okaaaaaay - here we go !
1. Both the WHO and the NHS recommend limiting ADDED sugar in anyones diet. From the NHS, the limit recommended is 30g per day for everyone over the age of 11 without any other criteria.That excludes fruit and veg but includes fruit juices.
The US has recommendations like this too, as I have explained to you before.
This has ZERO to do with an assertion that we must watch (and keep super low) ALL sugar, and as I and many others pointed out to OP, many of us go over the asserted sugar limit necessary to lose (according to OP) wiht fruit and veg. OP insisted on the ridiculously low number 10 g as his supposedly even better limit, and as I noted for me that would mean fewer veg than I like to eat in a day (I am usually over 10 servings, and I think a variety of veg, not just spinach or chard or lettuce) is important.
If OP thought it was being misunderstood he could have jumped in and clarified, but of course he did not, and I think given the context it's a better interpretation to think he meant ALL sugar.
Thus, I don't get why you are pretending the rest of us are defending unlimited added sugar (most can limit added sugar not by counting but just by knowing what they eat and making mostly nutrient dense choices).
Also, even if added sugar was what was referred to (which I strongly doubt) it would STILL be false to claim it interferes with weight loss unrelated to cals. OP didn't talk about nutrition and claimed it would prevent loss even if calories are right. Surely you aren't going to claim that's what the WHO says!3. Sugar has limited / if any nutritional value - this does not detract from the fact that its yummy.
Once again, many nutrient dense foods, like fruit and veg, come with some sugar. It's not hard to go over 30 g with, say, 7-8 servings of veg, 3 of fruit, depending on what fruits are chosen, especially. But not long ago the NIH (your own source!) was pushing 10+ fruits and veg as better than the basic 5 (I like to eat 10+ servings of veg and then 2-3 servings of fruit, at least some of which are often avocado or strawberries/raspberries, but even so that's usually over 30).4. T2 diabetes is considered the most signficant health crisis in the UK currently and it doesnt turn up overnight. Yes it as a lot to do with fat, internally and externally but it doesnt happen in a sugarless void. Sugar (note not carbs) consumption has a correlation to the development of T2 diabetes.
From what I've read, this is not true. The only consumption connection with T2D (which may have correlation issues) is sugary sodas. Being obese/having excessive body fat is clearly a risk, and is probably the reason that western style diets are ALSO correlated (which involve a lot more than increased sugar and often DO NOT involve increased carbs). In some (non western) countries this correlation kicks in before people are actually overweight or obese but ARE heavier than in the past.5. Dentists would love us all to eat less - the first person to notice when I dropped my added sugar consumption down was my dentist (appreciate us Brits have a bad rep on the teeth front in general !).
The WHO put this on added sugar. Even if peaches have some affect on teeth, sorry, I'm still eating them. I can take care of my teeth in the ordinary ways. (My biggest tooth risk factor, other than the bike accident I was in once, is coffee, and I don't consume it sweetened. I also consume well under what the WHO recommends as an added sugar rec most days (on occasional days not, but on average, yes, easily), although this was also something I did before I knew about the WHO recs, because I tend to focus on nutrient dense foods and don't like sweetened drinks. So I don't think I need to worry about added sugar (let alone ALL sugar, as OP was talking about). Maybe you had an issue with excessive added sugar, but assuming everyone else in this discussion consumes a lot or needs to reduce their added sugar would be wrong.I do think we have quite the regional difference when it comes to sugar with the US side of the board seeing it as less of an issue. Thats not a criticism or a judgement and I hope we can respect our differences on this.
I don't know where you get this, as it's not supported by anything, as I explained to you before. In particular, US authorities recommend limiting added sugar (consistent with the WHO). We don't confuse people by claiming that ALL sugar needs to be limited, but in that people in the US consume too little fruit, veg, and dairy (although I am personally skeptical about the importance of the dairy recommendation), saying ALL sugar should be limited would not only be unsupported advice not backed up by any credible studies or dietary experts, but counterproductive given other recommendations (great, everyone is now scared of fruit and thinks under 10 or even 5 g of sugar is the best -- wheee, no vegetables either!).
That you read OP's advice to be about added sugar and then decided to insist that Americans are against advice to limit added sugar (I'm American, I didn't check where everyone else was from, but I also said that I think added sugar should be limited in my response to OP) is interesting and IMO a misreading of the conversation.
No, OP did not get woos for saying added sugar should be limited (which is not what he said), but that ALL sugar had to be below 30 g for weight loss to work, and that he should be congratulated for being below 10 g (again, a number that would cause most to limit amounts of healthful foods that should be in a diet, according to the NIH's own recommendations).11 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Tandyman23 wrote: »Make sure to closely monitor sugar intake even if you are watching calorie intake. The effect sugar has on insulin level and fat isnt correlated with the amount of calories you are consuming. I personally try not to exceed 10g of sugar a day if that. Counting calories means absolutely nothing if you are still consuming 30g+ of sugar a day.
Tell that to the 108 lbs I lost.
And the 84 pounds I’ve lost thus far. (25 to go)
46 grams of sugar every morning in the form of one can of rockstar organic energy.
An average over all deficit of 2k cal a day due to exercise let’s you do all sorts of supposedly “bad” things... and still melt fat like an ice cube under a hot faucet.
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You do realize that if you eat vegetables, that you could be easily exceeding sugar? 1 cup of carrots has 6g. 1/2 of tomatoes has 3g. And to say that counting calories even if consuming 30+g of sugar means nothing is misleading. If one ate 3 bananas a day (14g of sugar each) and stayed in a calorie deficit, they would still lose fat weight. Don't get strung up on all the anti sugar hype that many diet franchises and programs that are being sold just to make money. If you do physical activity daily and intense, sugar is a friend. You're NOT burning fat during those intense workouts.Tandyman23 wrote: »Make sure to closely monitor sugar intake even if you are watching calorie intake. The effect sugar has on insulin level and fat isnt correlated with the amount of calories you are consuming. I personally try not to exceed 10g of sugar a day if that. Counting calories means absolutely nothing if you are still consuming 30g+ of sugar a day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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stinkyfungus wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Tandyman23 wrote: »Make sure to closely monitor sugar intake even if you are watching calorie intake. The effect sugar has on insulin level and fat isnt correlated with the amount of calories you are consuming. I personally try not to exceed 10g of sugar a day if that. Counting calories means absolutely nothing if you are still consuming 30g+ of sugar a day.
Tell that to the 108 lbs I lost.
And the 84 pounds I’ve lost thus far. (25 to go)
46 grams of sugar every morning in the form of one can of rockstar organic energy.
An average over all deficit of 2k cal a day due to exercise let’s you do all sorts of supposedly “bad” things... and still melt fat like an ice cube under a hot faucet.
Great on the weight loss but about spit out my breakfast laughing when I read this, Rockstar "Organic" what the *kitten*?4 -
Tandyman23 wrote: »Counting calories means absolutely nothing if you are still consuming 30g+ of sugar a day.
What are you proposing will happen?
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SUGAR BAD! ...
<=== realizes its melon season in Florida... Nope... sugars good! That said, I do think that added sugar inside a highly palatable item might be problematic for SOME people who might then over consume calories COULD be an issue. I tend to get almost all my sugar from fruits and veggies.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »stinkyfungus wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Tandyman23 wrote: »Make sure to closely monitor sugar intake even if you are watching calorie intake. The effect sugar has on insulin level and fat isnt correlated with the amount of calories you are consuming. I personally try not to exceed 10g of sugar a day if that. Counting calories means absolutely nothing if you are still consuming 30g+ of sugar a day.
Tell that to the 108 lbs I lost.
And the 84 pounds I’ve lost thus far. (25 to go)
46 grams of sugar every morning in the form of one can of rockstar organic energy.
An average over all deficit of 2k cal a day due to exercise let’s you do all sorts of supposedly “bad” things... and still melt fat like an ice cube under a hot faucet.
Great on the weight loss but about spit out my breakfast laughing when I read this, Rockstar "Organic" what the *kitten*?Theoldguy1 wrote: »stinkyfungus wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Tandyman23 wrote: »Make sure to closely monitor sugar intake even if you are watching calorie intake. The effect sugar has on insulin level and fat isnt correlated with the amount of calories you are consuming. I personally try not to exceed 10g of sugar a day if that. Counting calories means absolutely nothing if you are still consuming 30g+ of sugar a day.
Tell that to the 108 lbs I lost.
And the 84 pounds I’ve lost thus far. (25 to go)
46 grams of sugar every morning in the form of one can of rockstar organic energy.
An average over all deficit of 2k cal a day due to exercise let’s you do all sorts of supposedly “bad” things... and still melt fat like an ice cube under a hot faucet.
Great on the weight loss but about spit out my breakfast laughing when I read this, Rockstar "Organic" what the *kitten*?
I know right? It is pretty counter intuitive.
IDGAS about the organic label, I drink it because
1. It actually tastes good. Kinda like guava, and is kinda light and crisp on the palette. Not like fruity mystery syrup typical of other drinks.
2. The sweetener in it is actual cane sugar (not HF corn syrup, not fake sweetners)
3. the caffeine in it is taken from green coffee beans.
4. The ingredient list is surprisingly short... and simple. see below.
Ingredients:
Carbonated water, organic cane sugar, citric acid,organic caffeine from green coffee beans, natural flavors, organic guarnara seed extract.
So yeah... I’m not an organic foods nut or anything. Could care less really - but the product is among the best of a bad lot IMHO.
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stinkyfungus wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »stinkyfungus wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Tandyman23 wrote: »Make sure to closely monitor sugar intake even if you are watching calorie intake. The effect sugar has on insulin level and fat isnt correlated with the amount of calories you are consuming. I personally try not to exceed 10g of sugar a day if that. Counting calories means absolutely nothing if you are still consuming 30g+ of sugar a day.
Tell that to the 108 lbs I lost.
And the 84 pounds I’ve lost thus far. (25 to go)
46 grams of sugar every morning in the form of one can of rockstar organic energy.
An average over all deficit of 2k cal a day due to exercise let’s you do all sorts of supposedly “bad” things... and still melt fat like an ice cube under a hot faucet.
Great on the weight loss but about spit out my breakfast laughing when I read this, Rockstar "Organic" what the *kitten*?Theoldguy1 wrote: »stinkyfungus wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Tandyman23 wrote: »Make sure to closely monitor sugar intake even if you are watching calorie intake. The effect sugar has on insulin level and fat isnt correlated with the amount of calories you are consuming. I personally try not to exceed 10g of sugar a day if that. Counting calories means absolutely nothing if you are still consuming 30g+ of sugar a day.
Tell that to the 108 lbs I lost.
And the 84 pounds I’ve lost thus far. (25 to go)
46 grams of sugar every morning in the form of one can of rockstar organic energy.
An average over all deficit of 2k cal a day due to exercise let’s you do all sorts of supposedly “bad” things... and still melt fat like an ice cube under a hot faucet.
Great on the weight loss but about spit out my breakfast laughing when I read this, Rockstar "Organic" what the *kitten*?
I know right? It is pretty counter intuitive.
IDGAS about the organic label, I drink it because
1. It actually tastes good. Kinda like guava, and is kinda light and crisp on the palette. Not like fruity mystery syrup typical of other drinks.
2. The sweetener in it is actual cane sugar (not HF corn syrup, not fake sweetners)
3. the caffeine in it is taken from green coffee beans.
4. The ingredient list is surprisingly short... and simple. see below.
Ingredients:
Carbonated water, organic cane sugar, citric acid,organic caffeine from green coffee beans, natural flavors, organic guarnara seed extract.
So yeah... I’m not an organic foods nut or anything. Could care less really - but the product is among the best of a bad lot IMHO.
Yeah dung is organic too...2 -
psychod787 wrote: »stinkyfungus wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »stinkyfungus wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Tandyman23 wrote: »Make sure to closely monitor sugar intake even if you are watching calorie intake. The effect sugar has on insulin level and fat isnt correlated with the amount of calories you are consuming. I personally try not to exceed 10g of sugar a day if that. Counting calories means absolutely nothing if you are still consuming 30g+ of sugar a day.
Tell that to the 108 lbs I lost.
And the 84 pounds I’ve lost thus far. (25 to go)
46 grams of sugar every morning in the form of one can of rockstar organic energy.
An average over all deficit of 2k cal a day due to exercise let’s you do all sorts of supposedly “bad” things... and still melt fat like an ice cube under a hot faucet.
Great on the weight loss but about spit out my breakfast laughing when I read this, Rockstar "Organic" what the *kitten*?Theoldguy1 wrote: »stinkyfungus wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Tandyman23 wrote: »Make sure to closely monitor sugar intake even if you are watching calorie intake. The effect sugar has on insulin level and fat isnt correlated with the amount of calories you are consuming. I personally try not to exceed 10g of sugar a day if that. Counting calories means absolutely nothing if you are still consuming 30g+ of sugar a day.
Tell that to the 108 lbs I lost.
And the 84 pounds I’ve lost thus far. (25 to go)
46 grams of sugar every morning in the form of one can of rockstar organic energy.
An average over all deficit of 2k cal a day due to exercise let’s you do all sorts of supposedly “bad” things... and still melt fat like an ice cube under a hot faucet.
Great on the weight loss but about spit out my breakfast laughing when I read this, Rockstar "Organic" what the *kitten*?
I know right? It is pretty counter intuitive.
IDGAS about the organic label, I drink it because
1. It actually tastes good. Kinda like guava, and is kinda light and crisp on the palette. Not like fruity mystery syrup typical of other drinks.
2. The sweetener in it is actual cane sugar (not HF corn syrup, not fake sweetners)
3. the caffeine in it is taken from green coffee beans.
4. The ingredient list is surprisingly short... and simple. see below.
Ingredients:
Carbonated water, organic cane sugar, citric acid,organic caffeine from green coffee beans, natural flavors, organic guarnara seed extract.
So yeah... I’m not an organic foods nut or anything. Could care less really - but the product is among the best of a bad lot IMHO.
Yeah dung is organic too...
Your point?
Never said the the beverage is “good” because it’s organic.
Hell, like I said I could care less about the organic label. The whole organic thing is mostly a scam as far as I can see. (Kinda like the low/no carb thing)
I drink it because I LIKE it.
And considering it does not seem to be costing me anything when it comes to my workout and diet routine... I see no net harm in consuming it provided I use the fuel it provides. Which I do, and I continue to shed fat, my blood work is good, I can ride a bicycle like an animal, and I’m starting to look really good again.
Thereby pretty much rendering the whole preposterous original premise of this post one should consume “no more than10 grams of sugar to be healthy.”
Pretty much moot.
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