Gut Microbiome impact on Health and Fitness

Fuzzipeg wrote: »

We have had placed before us a number of links which provide information detailing the beneficial nature of our microbiome. The last one by Dr. Chris Kresser, educated in both eastern and western medicine, lays out everything neatly, how the body can be susceptible to issues within our microbiome.

I put it to you John, particularly, the debate is framed in the links. These links provide information on the ways to improve one's biome and why in various instances it could be helpful. As a younger person able to eat and drink what ever you choose seemingly without health issues have no wish to increase your knowledge - true this is news relating our microbiome will be new to many a Western Medical adviser don't we owe it to ourselves to look after ourselves to the best we can so as not to become an impediment to our families or societies?

Kindly do us a favour and set out your objections to the concept of the microbiome being beneficial. Enlighten us as to why any talk of a healthy microbiome is totally floored.

CSARdiver wrote: »

J72FIT wrote: »

I am starting to wonder if there is a language barrier with certain posters. I am not trying to be funny. It would explain why some posts just make no sense to me...

More of a Aristotelian logic and ego preservation barrier.

The underlying goal of this interest (and others like this) appears to be an attempt to place blame on behavior onto some other object.

GaleHawkins wrote: »

J72FIT wrote: »

I am starting to wonder if there is a language barrier with certain posters. I am not trying to be funny. It would explain why some posts just make no sense to me...

My posts are for MFP readers that come here for science behind today's health and wellness yet never post. Since most are not into being the mole in a game of Whack The Mole it is a role that works well for me. I know who I am and my intent so taking a whacking for others is the least I can do for others that are seriously looking for better health and fitness for themselves, family and others without all of the dieting myths of yesterday year.

I grew up on a farm in the 50-60's two miles from where I live today and socially was always an underdog because I was not in the click crowd because I was a dirt poor farm boy with no cash or car. After high school I joined the Navy to See The World. That was when I realized I had been taught by my area "If It Is Different It Is BAD".

To change that mindset after the Navy I picked up two undergrad degrees (that many posters over the years know because the factual info in my MFP profile leads one to my LinkedIn account) before earning my OD degree. I started reading medical research back in 1976 about Ankylosing and have added other diseases for family reasons.

As you know I am 68 years old with 45 years of serious health issues relating to Ankylosing Spondylitis and earned an doctor of Optometry in 1986 from SCO in Memphis TN.

MFP and friends here have helped me greatly. For the those that actually post on MFP on the side of science I enjoy reading their posts. Over the last 5 years I and most other readers now know who is into the promoting eating science in the field of health and fitness and who are not.

Websites like this one needs content from the pioneers of health and fitness scientific research not a lot of personal opinions from mystical web characters with unknow backgrounds and education.

I would encourage others to stand up for science when it comes to health and wellness. Sure what is known today will be replaced with better data points and outcomes over time. That is a given in life.

For those who love to control the hammer I guess you have to do what you have to do but please think of others especially the owners of MFP when making tracks on this site instead of treating it as personal playhouse of a few while the resource is still in place.

Go for great content and it will attract other great content to this site.

J72FIT wrote: »

GaleHawkins wrote: »

Metformin Alters Microbiota, Improving Insulin Sensitivity

https://endocrineweb.com/professional/type-2-diabetes/metformin-alters-microbiota-improving-insulin-sensitivity

"The use of metformin in people with diabetes appears to favorably alter their gut microbiome, resulting in an improved glucose metabolism. The primary effect of metformin aims to stimulate levels of certain bacteria to enrich the microbiota milieu,1according to a team of researchers including the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, MD.

"In particular, my colleagues and I found that mucin-degrading Akkermansia muciniphila and several butyrate-producing bacteria were positively associated with metformin use," said study researc
her Juan S. Escobar, PhD, of the Vidarium Research Center in Medellin, Colombia. These results echo findings from an earlier study.2...."


The Gut Microbiome as a Target for the Treatment of Type 2 Diabetes

https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6013535/

Summary
The intestinal microbiota is known to be associated with metabolic syndrome and related comorbidities. Associated diseases including obesity, T2D, and fatty liver disease (NAFLD/NASH) all seem to be linked to altered microbial composition; however, causality has not been proven yet. Elucidating the potential causal and personalized role of the human gut microbiota in obesity and T2D is highly prioritized.



The human gut microbiome and body metabolism: implications for obesity and diabetes.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23401286
CONCLUSION:
Advances in the Human Microbiome Project and human metagenomics research will lead the way toward a greater understanding of the importance and role of the gut microbiome in metabolic disorders such as obesity, metabolic syndrome, and diabetes.

© 2013 American Association for Clinical Chemistry

From the article...

"More research is needed, both Dr. Apovian and Dr. Escobar agree. Physicians aren’t to the point where they are testing patient's stools routinely to assess individual gut bacteria, said Dr. Apovian. However, the study findings do suggest that metformin should be used more broadly than just for people with diabetes, she said.

Dr. Escobar’s lab aims to examine how to restore balance in the gut microbiota to prevent disease onset. However, he also championed the prospect of its use for those who already have a disease.

"For those already sick, our results can inform novel ways in which therapies could potentially be used to treat an assortment of gut microbiota-associated diseases, including type 2 diabetes."

Future research must also determine if the observed associations are causal, Dr. Escobar said, and of course, that would necessitate a randomized controlled trial..."

goldthistime wrote: »

A friend of mine was told by her doctor (medical doctor, here in Canada, not naturopath or alternative medicine doctor) to try a low starch diet for her iritis, which is an autoimmune condition. She was initially diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis, (she has HLA-B27) but now they are less certain because she has no back problems. Her iritis has been much worse in the last year, which just happens to be at the same time that she switched to a plant based diet, eating more carbs with no meat or dairy and only the occasional egg. I don’t know why she was told to try low starch instead of low carb, but she says fruit remains in her diet, so perhaps that’s the distinction. She hasn’t been on it long so no results yet. I don’t know if this doctor is typical or “rogue”.

She’s been taking steroids of some form or another most of the last year to address the problem, mostly just eye drops but recently a course of prednisone. They solve the problem temporarily and then it flares back up.

My own conclusion here is that there doesn’t seem to be a lot of harm in recommending this low starch diet even more if studies haven’t proven causation definitively.

I still support treating the discussion about the microbiome as being unproven or emerging, but I also don’t think Gale does real harm in posting all these links. Especially under the MFP community’s watchful eyes.

Phirrgus wrote: »

lukejoycePT wrote: »

Nothing is wrong with constructive criticism. But a lot of what i am seeing is just nay saying for the sake of it.

It appears that there are a number of regular posters who gang up together on people and just disagree with them without any real knowledge themselves, they just believe their opinion is gospel.

Anyway, this is not what this post is about so let’s move on.

I completely disagree.

Here's a sample of what us "regular posters" are reading.

https://time.com/5360407/microbiome-diet-gut-health/

First off, that's less than a year old.

For my earlier point that you ignored:

The gut microbiome—the billions of bacteria that live inside the human digestive tract—is the focus of some of today’s most exciting and compelling medical research. Studies have linked microbiome-related imbalances to health conditions ranging from depression and Parkinson’s disease to heart disease. Some researchers have even started referring to the microbiome as a “forgotten organ” because of the indispensable role it plays in human health.

No one is saying it isn't important. Literally no one.

What they are saying is this:

But when it comes to strengthening or restoring the microbiome in ways that promote optimal health in humans, Czaja says there are promising theories but no hard-and-fast answers yet. “Our understanding of mechanisms regulating the gut-microbiome-brain axis is negligible,” he says. “We are not even sure about the number of microbes in the human body.”

Figuring out which foods or probiotics could help reshape or harmonize the microbiome for improved health is like baking a perfect cake using 5,000 different ingredients, he says. The idea that eating this fruit or popping that supplement will do the trick is a woeful oversimplification of the microbiome’s complex role in human health.

Others agree. “We’re still learning what is a ‘healthy’ microbiome,” says Dr. Vincent Young, a professor in the department of microbiology and immunology at the University of Michigan Medical School. “There’s tremendous promise, and the research is being done, but right now, we don’t know what’s deranged or lacking, or how to fix it.”

Young points to the studies that have tied certain microbiome characteristics with disease states. The assumption is that by altering the microbiome to resemble a healthy person’s, we can cure or combat those diseases. This is the theory behind fecal transplants, which are basically transfusions of gut bacteria from a healthy person into a sick one. “But so far, fecal transplants are only proven to be effective for patients with recurrent C. difficile infection,” Young says, referring to a common type of infection that occurs in some people who have had their microbiome disrupted, typically by antibiotics. “People are trying these transplants for everything from autism to depression, but the results are uncertain and anecdotal.”

The medical science community is only “scratching the surface” when it comes to understanding the microbiome’s role in human health, McDonald says, and experts who study it still can’t even say what a healthy or unhealthy microbiome looks like. “A lot of the technology we’re applying now is of relatively low precision,” he says. “We are not even in a position to say that one person’s microbiome is more or less healthy than another’s.”

There's more in there, with some supporting links. Your assumption is that "regular posters" like me are simply jumping on a bandwagon is insulting. A few of us are capable of reading information and drawing our own conclusions as well.

I have absolutely nothing against Gale at all. But I personally will not accept questionable sources when leading experts in the field are saying what I just posted above.

ceiswyn wrote: »

Actually, @lukejoycePT, I think it's OK to get frustrated with someone who repeatedly posts bad information, ignores corrections, and denies his previous actions (for example, claiming that he's not making claims!).

Your own post isn't exactly 100% 'nice'; presumably that's because you're getting frustrated? Maybe cut someone else the slack you're cutting yourself?

ceiswyn wrote: »

lukejoycePT wrote: »

This isn't just going off this post, it's coming from my experience posting on these forums in other threads etc. It's the same 5 or 6 individuals that have this mentality and post in this way.

The problem with "bad information" is that most of the topics on this forum are based upon opinion and not proven science, On both sides. The people who share this information believe it to be true, often from experience and those who attack the idea are also going on belief and not facts.

Nobody on this forum is actually qualified to give this advice. It is opinion based and therefore should be treated as such, with respect and courtesy. It doesn't matter if you believe someone is wrong, you are entitled to your beliefs but to treat others with contempt because it doesn't fit your perspective is insane, That's basically religion.

I myself help people for a living, I work in the health industry. I learn new things every day and my OPINION changes regularly due to experience. i am always open to understanding a new opinion or perspective but on these forums nobody gets to express them because of a small minority.

The fact is none of you are wrong and none of you are right. So stop acting like you have the answers and start listening.

I'm certain that some of Gales info is way off, but the guy is posting studies and information he is coming across to inform others. He may believe it and he's entitled to do so. It worked for him, so from his perspective of reality it works. It may work for others who read it.

My experience tells me that all of this stuff works for some and not for others. Whether its sugar related, gut related, workout related etc. The gut is a complex and insane part of the human body, we are only just starting to understand it and the science is in it infancy as many have said but the fact remains that, like most things, it's not black and white.

ceiswyn wrote: »

Actually, @lukejoycePT, I think it's OK to get frustrated with someone who repeatedly posts bad information, ignores corrections, and denies his previous actions (for example, claiming that he's not making claims!).

Your own post isn't exactly 100% 'nice'; presumably that's because you're getting frustrated? Maybe cut someone else the slack you're cutting yourself?

...are you genuinely equating 'microbiome research supports keto' with 'we don't have enough information on the microbiome to say anything conclusively and need to do more research'?