Cat calls while working out
Replies
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maureenseel1984 wrote: »Agreed. There's one individual in our neighborhood who has run after and threatened and flashed women...on the one hand, he does have a cognitive delay/deficit of some kind...on the other, he actually stalked women to their houses then paced back and forth in front of their houses while..amusing himself if you get my drift.
Fortunately he doesn't seem to like my dogs and is deterred by men. We also haven't seen him for a good bit so I am hoping he go the help he needed.
Jeez what the heck? Hopefully he's on the police' radar? You mentioned where you were earlier, so I know it isn't the same case, but an individual that fits that description just recently kidnapped a woman here. She got away unharmed after...2 or 3 days if I remember correctly...but his lawyers are using his condition as a defense...
Please keep those dogs (awesome buddies, aren't they?) with you...3 -
maureenseel1984 wrote: »Agreed. There's one individual in our neighborhood who has run after and threatened and flashed women...on the one hand, he does have a cognitive delay/deficit of some kind...on the other, he actually stalked women to their houses then paced back and forth in front of their houses while..amusing himself if you get my drift.
Fortunately he doesn't seem to like my dogs and is deterred by men. We also haven't seen him for a good bit so I am hoping he go the help he needed.
Jeez what the heck? Hopefully he's on the police' radar? You mentioned where you were earlier, so I know it isn't the same case, but an individual that fits that description just recently kidnapped a woman here. She got away unharmed after...2 or 3 days if I remember correctly...but his lawyers are using his condition as a defense...
Please keep those dogs (awesome buddies, aren't they?) with you...
He's been on the police radar for a while. But we think he lives in a group home or something and kept getting away-he didn't even live near here/our neighborhood but kept finding his way back here. No idea. He had started to walk my way once (I recognized him because of previous encounters, others catching him on video, etc)...but he saw my dogs and opted not to follow us. And they are terrific walking buddies. They look scary...but they're really marshmallows.4 -
maureenseel1984 wrote: »maureenseel1984 wrote: »Agreed. There's one individual in our neighborhood who has run after and threatened and flashed women...on the one hand, he does have a cognitive delay/deficit of some kind...on the other, he actually stalked women to their houses then paced back and forth in front of their houses while..amusing himself if you get my drift.
Fortunately he doesn't seem to like my dogs and is deterred by men. We also haven't seen him for a good bit so I am hoping he go the help he needed.
Jeez what the heck? Hopefully he's on the police' radar? You mentioned where you were earlier, so I know it isn't the same case, but an individual that fits that description just recently kidnapped a woman here. She got away unharmed after...2 or 3 days if I remember correctly...but his lawyers are using his condition as a defense...
Please keep those dogs (awesome buddies, aren't they?) with you...
He's been on the police radar for a while. But we think he lives in a group home or something and kept getting away-he didn't even live near here/our neighborhood but kept finding his way back here. No idea. He had started to walk my way once (I recognized him because of previous encounters, others catching him on video, etc)...but he saw my dogs and opted not to follow us. And they are terrific walking buddies. They look scary...but they're really marshmallows.
Looking scary is 90% of the battle lol. I wish homes like that would keep their wards locked down better. I don't want to speak ill of anyone living with a condition/illness, but I would rather lockup for them than someone getting hurt/terrorized.1 -
The sad thing is we don't know if he has any family in the area...or anyone looking out for him. A lot of the homeless in our area appear to have mental disorders or cognitive deficits of some kind but...who is helping them? It's sad. I mean...I don't want anything bad to happen to the guy but at the same time...he's not in control of his actions. He could seriously hurt someone.1
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It's really sad, but where should the line be drawn? I don't know...lack of funding/resources for the impaired, lack of safety for those they might hurt, I don't have the answers.
I do encourage my daughters and their friends to learn self defense, carry a 'deterrent' of some type and so on. And then hope they never need it.3 -
maureenseel1984 wrote: »Has the world gone mad?! How have we come to a position where "Swiping Left/Right" for approval or whatever the hell goes on in the world of online dating is acceptable when that is clearly based on the objectification of the still (possibly exaggerated/fake) images of the man/woman you "fancy" and yet when a real person who you could interact with on a personal level whistles at you in the street they are instantly demonised as a rapist or something?!
Given that on this particular occasion you cannot clarify whether he was being complimentary or being a jerk...perhaps it's time we stopped being such cottonwool wrapped prissies and got back into the real world where people talk to each other by moving their mouths up and down in each others company and make opinions on each other based on actual feelings gained during those interactions...instead of kneejerk/gutwrench assumptions being made.
I appreciate he may have been an asshat...but he may well not have been...all I'm saying is...no matter how you dress or what you look like...that doesn't give anyone the right to do anything...but all this hatred because society is making you think that everyone you meet is a rapist/pedophile or something of that ilk is just nonsense...most people are honest, decent, easy-going types that will help you, exchange pleasantries with you or at the very least be civil and say "hello" as a gesture of friendly acknowledgement as they pass you in the street...THIS IS NORMAL LIFE...
Being afraid of every single human being you encounter as you go through your life is what's wrong here...remember that the next time you order an UBER without a second thought...
Oh wow... Dude it has less to do with me being afraid of being attacked and more to do with feeling like a piece of meat... But thanks.
And who the eff cares if he was trying to be "complimentary"!? Is it really a man's right to assess if my body is up to par...? It's not his body to comment on!
Truth! She didn’t ask for his opinion about her body—so how about not giving it.
I have 3 daughters, and there have been public....incidents..over men offering unsolicited comments. It never escalated to violence, but....things waaay beyond catcalls and such. Several times while the girls were still minors - mid teens. In my own "guy kind of way" I get it, really do.
That's the thing: We, as the object (not subject) don't have a great way to know which incidents will escalate into hostility or even physical violence. It isn't a compliment, if the target feels threatened or fearful, no matter what the catcaller intended. (<= Notice lack of gendered terms: What's relevant is the lack of insight, empathy and kindness .)
If someone is a decent human, they ought to act like one. Period.8 -
maureenseel1984 wrote: »Has the world gone mad?! How have we come to a position where "Swiping Left/Right" for approval or whatever the hell goes on in the world of online dating is acceptable when that is clearly based on the objectification of the still (possibly exaggerated/fake) images of the man/woman you "fancy" and yet when a real person who you could interact with on a personal level whistles at you in the street they are instantly demonised as a rapist or something?!
Given that on this particular occasion you cannot clarify whether he was being complimentary or being a jerk...perhaps it's time we stopped being such cottonwool wrapped prissies and got back into the real world where people talk to each other by moving their mouths up and down in each others company and make opinions on each other based on actual feelings gained during those interactions...instead of kneejerk/gutwrench assumptions being made.
I appreciate he may have been an asshat...but he may well not have been...all I'm saying is...no matter how you dress or what you look like...that doesn't give anyone the right to do anything...but all this hatred because society is making you think that everyone you meet is a rapist/pedophile or something of that ilk is just nonsense...most people are honest, decent, easy-going types that will help you, exchange pleasantries with you or at the very least be civil and say "hello" as a gesture of friendly acknowledgement as they pass you in the street...THIS IS NORMAL LIFE...
Being afraid of every single human being you encounter as you go through your life is what's wrong here...remember that the next time you order an UBER without a second thought...
Oh wow... Dude it has less to do with me being afraid of being attacked and more to do with feeling like a piece of meat... But thanks.
And who the eff cares if he was trying to be "complimentary"!? Is it really a man's right to assess if my body is up to par...? It's not his body to comment on!
Truth! She didn’t ask for his opinion about her body—so how about not giving it.
I have 3 daughters, and there have been public....incidents..over men offering unsolicited comments. It never escalated to violence, but....things waaay beyond catcalls and such. Several times while the girls were still minors - mid teens. In my own "guy kind of way" I get it, really do.
That's the thing: We, as the object (not subject) don't have a great way to know which incidents will escalate into hostility or even physical violence. It isn't a compliment, if the target feels threatened or fearful, no matter what the catcaller intended. (<= Notice lack of gendered terms: What's relevant is the lack of insight, empathy and kindness .)
If someone is a decent human, they ought to act like one. Period.
Yes, this is why my people buy their daughters pepper spray, spikes, or tazers to protect themselves from very simple daily tasks—like getting in your car. I’ve been instructed to always check the back seat of my car to ensure no one is in it...to not wear headphones alone when out so I’m aware of my surroundings. When I went to university they asked us not to run alone and not try not to wear your hair up when walking alone Bc it made a girl easier to grab...fear happens when we feel objectified and don’t know how it will escalate.
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You guys wont like my response so Ill refrain4
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My daughter first encountered public harassment from a group of middle aged men when she was 13, and she was absolutely petrified. She hadn't even had time to come to terms with growing breasts before men who she thought of as dad aged were feeling entitled to make her feel uncomfortable about them. She came home in tears and wouldn't leave the house alone for weeks.maureenseel1984 wrote: »Has the world gone mad?! How have we come to a position where "Swiping Left/Right" for approval or whatever the hell goes on in the world of online dating is acceptable when that is clearly based on the objectification of the still (possibly exaggerated/fake) images of the man/woman you "fancy" and yet when a real person who you could interact with on a personal level whistles at you in the street they are instantly demonised as a rapist or something?!
Given that on this particular occasion you cannot clarify whether he was being complimentary or being a jerk...perhaps it's time we stopped being such cottonwool wrapped prissies and got back into the real world where people talk to each other by moving their mouths up and down in each others company and make opinions on each other based on actual feelings gained during those interactions...instead of kneejerk/gutwrench assumptions being made.
I appreciate he may have been an asshat...but he may well not have been...all I'm saying is...no matter how you dress or what you look like...that doesn't give anyone the right to do anything...but all this hatred because society is making you think that everyone you meet is a rapist/pedophile or something of that ilk is just nonsense...most people are honest, decent, easy-going types that will help you, exchange pleasantries with you or at the very least be civil and say "hello" as a gesture of friendly acknowledgement as they pass you in the street...THIS IS NORMAL LIFE...
Being afraid of every single human being you encounter as you go through your life is what's wrong here...remember that the next time you order an UBER without a second thought...
Oh wow... Dude it has less to do with me being afraid of being attacked and more to do with feeling like a piece of meat... But thanks.
And who the eff cares if he was trying to be "complimentary"!? Is it really a man's right to assess if my body is up to par...? It's not his body to comment on!
Truth! She didn’t ask for his opinion about her body—so how about not giving it.
I have 3 daughters, and there have been public....incidents..over men offering unsolicited comments. It never escalated to violence, but....things waaay beyond catcalls and such. Several times while the girls were still minors - mid teens. In my own "guy kind of way" I get it, really do.
I seem to remember I was about the same age. Literally a child.
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That kind of stuff makes me so pissed at the world. It’s your body, your health. They don’t have any right to make you uncomfortable.4
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It seems it should be so simple, does it not? Near the beginning of the thread I commented that "all genders do it" and that was not to get men off the hook in any way. I said it because I've seen it, multiple times.That's the thing: We, as the object (not subject) don't have a great way to know which incidents will escalate into hostility or even physical violence. It isn't a compliment, if the target feels threatened or fearful, no matter what the catcaller intended. (<= Notice lack of gendered terms: What's relevant is the lack of insight, empathy and kindness .)
If someone is a decent human, they ought to act like one. Period.
Your first statement is so true and I could write a page easily replying to it, regarding simple human responsibility as I see it. We need to watch out for each other, plain and simple. Adults protecting children especially, but also for each other. Some do, but I wish more would.
I gritted my teeth reading this. I told the truth about incidents here never escalating to violence, but sometimes I think it ought to. Children are taught to look to adults for protection...my middle daughter had a similar experience with a neighbor. The police wound up getting involved, it was a mess. But he left her alone ever after.glovepuppet wrote: »
My daughter first encountered public harassment from a group of middle aged men when she was 13, and she was absolutely petrified. She hadn't even had time to come to terms with growing breasts before men who she thought of as dad aged were feeling entitled to make her feel uncomfortable about them. She came home in tears and wouldn't leave the house alone for weeks.
I seem to remember I was about the same age. Literally a child.
I wish we had better answers. We hope the good folks keep fighting the good fight.
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OK...I expected a bit of backlash...but I'm strong enough to take it...because I'm not a precious little woolen lump...but just so I understand your diatribe...cat-calling a person in the flesh is bad...but posting in threads like those screengrabbed below is acceptable yes?!
I took that grab from this very forum displayed on page 1 of the 'Recent Discussions' and all but the 'crush' thread have thousands of replies...presumably from people registered here saying they would kiss (there are two separate 'kiss' threads!) or flirt with the person posting above...there are many similar threads on this forum...so tell me again what is acceptable behavior...
If you have no problem with those threads...then I'd say your worldview is pretty funked up! Because to me they are basically entry-level harrassment posts...
Now I have never been raped, or harrassed...but I do understand those that have experienced the horrors of unwanted attention/abuse may have deep seated issues...and I am truly sorry for whatever happened to you in your life that has made you so protective of your feelings...I do not condone in ANY WAY harrassment or abuse! But let's just take a breath and realise that in general people are not all rapists, murderers or even bad people...we're all just balls of flesh trying to get on in this world and yes there are *kitten* that take advantage of things to do horrible stuff...and specifically in relation to this thread that guy may have been a straight out pervert...I accept that...and if you are made to feel uncomfortable, then you are entitled to your opinion...but come on...where do we draw the line...16 -
OK...I expected a bit of backlash...but I'm strong enough to take it...because I'm not a precious little woolen lump...but just so I understand your diatribe...cat-calling a person in the flesh is bad...but posting in threads like those screengrabbed below is acceptable yes?!
I took that grab from this very forum displayed on page 1 of the 'Recent Discussions' and all but the 'crush' thread have thousands of replies...presumably from people registered here saying they would kiss (there are two separate 'kiss' threads!) or flirt with the person posting above...there are many similar threads on this forum...so tell me again what is acceptable behavior...
If you have no problem with those threads...then I'd say your worldview is pretty funked up! Because to me they are basically entry-level harrassment posts...
Now I have never been raped, or harrassed...but I do understand those that have experienced the horrors of unwanted attention/abuse may have deep seated issues...and I am truly sorry for whatever happened to you in your life that has made you so protective of your feelings...I do not condone in ANY WAY harrassment or abuse! But let's just take a breath and realise that in general people are not all rapists, murderers or even bad people...we're all just balls of flesh trying to get on in this world and yes there are *kitten* that take advantage of things to do horrible stuff...and specifically in relation to this thread that guy may have been a straight out pervert...I accept that...and if you are made to feel uncomfortable, then you are entitled to your opinion...but come on...where do we draw the line...
A precious little woolen lump? I admit I laughed a bit at that. Maybe not for the reasons you would think though.
Those threads - I don't browse those sub-forums, but are the posts and replies concensual? If so you're comparing apples to oranges.
The thread has wandered a bit regarding the OPs looking for support to sexual harrassment, but I'm still not sure why you insist on denigrating her? Again, she did not call for anything unrealistic, she was open and honest about her feelings without going overboard and hasn't insulted anyone at all.
Yet you consider her (and by default everyone supporting her) "precious little woolen lumps". An insult is an insult no matter how politely you phrase it.
I do know the men and women I served with would laugh at someone calling me a "precious little lump", as would the doctors who helped me walk again....yet somehow I just don't feel the need to throw my testosterone in everyone's faces....13 -
OK...I expected a bit of backlash...but I'm strong enough to take it...because I'm not a precious little woolen lump...but just so I understand your diatribe...cat-calling a person in the flesh is bad...but posting in threads like those screengrabbed below is acceptable yes?!
I took that grab from this very forum displayed on page 1 of the 'Recent Discussions' and all but the 'crush' thread have thousands of replies...presumably from people registered here saying they would kiss (there are two separate 'kiss' threads!) or flirt with the person posting above...there are many similar threads on this forum...so tell me again what is acceptable behavior...
If you have no problem with those threads...then I'd say your worldview is pretty funked up! Because to me they are basically entry-level harrassment posts...
Now I have never been raped, or harrassed...but I do understand those that have experienced the horrors of unwanted attention/abuse may have deep seated issues...and I am truly sorry for whatever happened to you in your life that has made you so protective of your feelings...I do not condone in ANY WAY harrassment or abuse! But let's just take a breath and realise that in general people are not all rapists, murderers or even bad people...we're all just balls of flesh trying to get on in this world and yes there are *kitten* that take advantage of things to do horrible stuff...and specifically in relation to this thread that guy may have been a straight out pervert...I accept that...and if you are made to feel uncomfortable, then you are entitled to your opinion...but come on...where do we draw the line...
When I go out in public carrying a sign that says "Please catcall me, random stranger", then that might be a fair comparison to consensual threads on MFP.
I don't participate in those threads (because they're silly and boring to me, not because they're any kind of harassing).
And I don't carry that sign I mentioned . . . which doesn't 100% prevent harassment, even for a woman old enough to be most of you folks' grandmother.11 -
OK...I expected a bit of backlash...but I'm strong enough to take it...because I'm not a precious little woolen lump...but just so I understand your diatribe...cat-calling a person in the flesh is bad...but posting in threads like those screengrabbed below is acceptable yes?!
I took that grab from this very forum displayed on page 1 of the 'Recent Discussions' and all but the 'crush' thread have thousands of replies...presumably from people registered here saying they would kiss (there are two separate 'kiss' threads!) or flirt with the person posting above...there are many similar threads on this forum...so tell me again what is acceptable behavior...
If you have no problem with those threads...then I'd say your worldview is pretty funked up! Because to me they are basically entry-level harrassment posts...
Now I have never been raped, or harrassed...but I do understand those that have experienced the horrors of unwanted attention/abuse may have deep seated issues...and I am truly sorry for whatever happened to you in your life that has made you so protective of your feelings...I do not condone in ANY WAY harrassment or abuse! But let's just take a breath and realise that in general people are not all rapists, murderers or even bad people...we're all just balls of flesh trying to get on in this world and yes there are *kitten* that take advantage of things to do horrible stuff...and specifically in relation to this thread that guy may have been a straight out pervert...I accept that...and if you are made to feel uncomfortable, then you are entitled to your opinion...but come on...where do we draw the line...
Consent. The difference is consent. Those threads are for people to invite a comment or compliment. Walking in public is not an invitation.
You may disapprove of women behaving flirtatiously, but that's not the cause of the problem. "Eve teasing" is still a huge issue for women in countries where they wear burquas and don't speak to men they aren't related to! Wearing burquas!!
It was just as bad for my mother's generation, from what she tells me, and they didn't have any mixed gatherings without chaperones. No internet, no speed dating, no makeup.
If you don't like flirtatious women, that's fine, don't hang out with them. But they are not to blame for the bad behaviour of the jerks, and they never have been.9 -
OK...I expected a bit of backlash...but I'm strong enough to take it...because I'm not a precious little woolen lump...but just so I understand your diatribe...cat-calling a person in the flesh is bad...but posting in threads like those screengrabbed below is acceptable yes?!
I took that grab from this very forum displayed on page 1 of the 'Recent Discussions' and all but the 'crush' thread have thousands of replies...presumably from people registered here saying they would kiss (there are two separate 'kiss' threads!) or flirt with the person posting above...there are many similar threads on this forum...so tell me again what is acceptable behavior...
If you have no problem with those threads...then I'd say your worldview is pretty funked up! Because to me they are basically entry-level harrassment posts...
Now I have never been raped, or harrassed...but I do understand those that have experienced the horrors of unwanted attention/abuse may have deep seated issues...and I am truly sorry for whatever happened to you in your life that has made you so protective of your feelings...I do not condone in ANY WAY harrassment or abuse! But let's just take a breath and realise that in general people are not all rapists, murderers or even bad people...we're all just balls of flesh trying to get on in this world and yes there are *kitten* that take advantage of things to do horrible stuff...and specifically in relation to this thread that guy may have been a straight out pervert...I accept that...and if you are made to feel uncomfortable, then you are entitled to your opinion...but come on...where do we draw the line...
Consent. The difference is consent. Those threads are for people to invite a comment or compliment. Walking in public is not an invitation.
You may disapprove of women behaving flirtatiously, but that's not the cause of the problem. "Eve teasing" is still a huge issue for women in countries where they wear burquas and don't speak to men they aren't related to! Wearing burquas!!
It was just as bad for my mother's generation, from what she tells me, and they didn't have any mixed gatherings without chaperones. No internet, no speed dating, no makeup.
If you don't like flirtatious women, that's fine, don't hang out with them. But they are not to blame for the bad behaviour of the jerks, and they never have been.2 -
A precious little woolen lump? I admit I laughed a bit at that. Maybe not for the reasons you would think though.
Those threads - I don't browse those sub-forums, but are the posts and replies concensual? If so you're comparing apples to oranges.
The thread has wandered a bit regarding the OPs looking for support to sexual harrassment, but I'm still not sure why you insist on denigrating her? Again, she did not call for anything unrealistic, she was open and honest about her feelings without going overboard and hasn't insulted anyone at all.
Yet you consider her (and by default everyone supporting her) "precious little woolen lumps". An insult is an insult no matter how politely you phrase it.
I do know the men and women I served with would laugh at someone calling me a "precious little lump", as would the doctors who helped me walk again....yet somehow I just don't feel the need to throw my testosterone in everyone's faces....
Am I comparing Apples to Oranges?!? Am I throwing my testosterone in anyone's face?! I don't think so... Can posts and replies really be consensual?! Unless they are reported as inappropriate...it seems to me that posts and replies can be construed however you please?! So sorry if I offend anyone...that truthfully is not my intent but recently in this world I am feeling like the balance of toxicity has shifted from one side to the other...I have had other experiences where I have questioned my stance...I'm not a bad person...I go out of my way to help anyone in need and I certainly don't objectify anyone...can't actually recall cat-calling (wolf-whistling) at anyone ever, but I understand the context in which it occurs on a basic friendly level...it's a primal mating ritual...and yet society seems to be becoming so benign and self-absorbed (I won't say obsessed...) that people are losing grip on reality...especially when that reality is "Love Island"...seeing as we're talking about the blurred lines of acceptability...what is acceptable about that show?! A bunch of people hooking up and cheating on each other to be the winning couple for your entertainment?! Not for me thanks!
I've rambled on there...but the bottom line is this...a cat-call from a man or a woman (it happens!) is not always directly perverted...sometimes it's just what it is meant to be...an appreciation of the form of the male/female...and the OP's original post stated she did not know what was shouted...so it may have been an innocent call of flattery...but she didn't hear it so instantly assumed it was derogatory...we'll never truly know whether it was sexual harrassment or just an older fella admiring her...because clearly people don't like talking to other people unless it's behind the facade of a forum or chat room these days...and whilst they dispise so-called "unwanted" attention they'll happily watch a group of people getting together, arguing and cheating on each other for fun...that to me is a sad state of affairs!16 -
A precious little woolen lump? I admit I laughed a bit at that. Maybe not for the reasons you would think though.
Those threads - I don't browse those sub-forums, but are the posts and replies concensual? If so you're comparing apples to oranges.
The thread has wandered a bit regarding the OPs looking for support to sexual harrassment, but I'm still not sure why you insist on denigrating her? Again, she did not call for anything unrealistic, she was open and honest about her feelings without going overboard and hasn't insulted anyone at all.
Yet you consider her (and by default everyone supporting her) "precious little woolen lumps". An insult is an insult no matter how politely you phrase it.
I do know the men and women I served with would laugh at someone calling me a "precious little lump", as would the doctors who helped me walk again....yet somehow I just don't feel the need to throw my testosterone in everyone's faces....
Am I comparing Apples to Oranges?!? Am I throwing my testosterone in anyone's face?! I don't think so... Can posts and replies really be consensual?! Unless they are reported as inappropriate...it seems to me that posts and replies can be construed however you please?! So sorry if I offend anyone...that truthfully is not my intent but recently in this world I am feeling like the balance of toxicity has shifted from one side to the other...I have had other experiences where I have questioned my stance...I'm not a bad person...I go out of my way to help anyone in need and I certainly don't objectify anyone...can't actually recall cat-calling (wolf-whistling) at anyone ever, but I understand the context in which it occurs on a basic friendly level...it's a primal mating ritual...and yet society seems to be becoming so benign and self-absorbed (I won't say obsessed...) that people are losing grip on reality...especially when that reality is "Love Island"...seeing as we're talking about the blurred lines of acceptability...what is acceptable about that show?! A bunch of people hooking up and cheating on each other to be the winning couple for your entertainment?! Not for me thanks!
I've rambled on there...but the bottom line is this...a cat-call from a man or a woman (it happens!) is not always directly perverted...sometimes it's just what it is meant to be...an appreciation of the form of the male/female...and the OP's original post stated she did not know what was shouted...so it may have been an innocent call of flattery...but she didn't hear it so instantly assumed it was derogatory...we'll never truly know whether it was sexual harrassment or just an older fella admiring her...because clearly people don't like talking to other people unless it's behind the facade of a forum or chat room these days...and whilst they dispise so-called "unwanted" attention they'll happily watch a group of people getting together, arguing and cheating on each other for fun...that to me is a sad state of affairs!
Kind, empathetic people with good intentions understand that a catcall from a strangermay be felt as threatening by its object, so they err on the side of silence out of basic decency.
What are they giving up by doing this? Unbridled self expression? A horrendously low-odds chance of a date? To pick those over kindness and politeness is pretty self-absorbed, if you ask me.
Consent by all participants is the bright line here. This doesn't seem hard to grasp.
Just because some people on TV do silly things consensually and other people watch them doesn't make it OK to catcall random strangers.
What the catcaller's intentions are literally doesn't matter. A decent human intuitively understands that the person being catcalled doesn't know the catcaller's intentions, and may feel threatened, so doesn't catcall.
It's rude to catcall strangers, no matter one's intentions. This is an easy concept.9 -
I don't think your intent was to offend, but I do think you're viewing the OPs post from a societal perspective, which strips away her individuality. I have some very strong opinions on certain aspects of society, most folks do, but I'm not willing to write off one person's experience in light of my views on society, which segues nicely into the next part of your reply...Am I comparing Apples to Oranges?!? Am I throwing my testosterone in anyone's face?! I don't think so... Can posts and replies really be consensual?! Unless they are reported as inappropriate...it seems to me that posts and replies can be construed however you please?! So sorry if I offend anyone...that truthfully is not my intent but recently in this world I am feeling like the balance of toxicity has shifted from one side to the other...I have had other experiences where I have questioned my stance...I'm not a bad person...I go out of my way to help anyone in need and I certainly don't objectify anyone...can't actually recall cat-calling (wolf-whistling) at anyone ever, but I understand the context in which it occurs on a basic friendly level...it's a primal mating ritual...and yet society seems to be becoming so benign and self-absorbed (I won't say obsessed...) that people are losing grip on reality...especially when that reality is "Love Island"...seeing as we're talking about the blurred lines of acceptability...what is acceptable about that show?! A bunch of people hooking up and cheating on each other to be the winning couple for your entertainment?! Not for me thanks!I've rambled on there...but the bottom line is this...a cat-call from a man or a woman (it happens!) is not always directly perverted...sometimes it's just what it is meant to be...an appreciation of the form of the male/female...and the OP's original post stated she did not know what was shouted...so it may have been an innocent call of flattery...but she didn't hear it so instantly assumed it was derogatory...we'll never truly know whether it was sexual harrassment or just an older fella admiring her...because clearly people don't like talking to other people unless it's behind the facade of a forum or chat room these days...and whilst they dispise so-called "unwanted" attention they'll happily watch a group of people getting together, arguing and cheating on each other for fun...that to me is a sad state of affairs!
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I never view these forums as anything but individuals behind keyboards doing their best to express themselves. I've actually had people reply to me with "But it's only the internet". No, it's still individual people behind those keyboards....
As far as it being a sad state of affairs...sometimes, of course, if that's all you choose to see. As stated before, I don't browse those forums. I'm quite content saving more intimate conversation for my wife, and my wife alone, but judging anyone else is painting myself into a no win situation as well. Besides, it just doesn't accomplish anything.
I recognize that we're on opposite sides of the fence here, and I'm not going to put you down for it, but I just don't see the point in trying to strip someone of an available avenue of support either.5 -
14 -
Well we'll all agree to disagree...I guess?! I see your points and all are valid...I respect your rights to your opinions...but I will stand and fight my corner as well as defend yours if called upon to do so (because for the record I am NOT stripping anyone of available avenues of support!)...because I fail to understand what has changed so much in this world to make people seemingly so unaware of the abundance of kind and good natured people that walk it, who interact with friends and strangers alike just exchanging pleasantries and acknowledging their existence...the Weinstein's, Fritzels and Bronsons of this world are horrifying people...but they shouldn't be the benchmark by which EVERYONE ELSE is judged...and it seems to be going that way?!?
A friendly natured "anything" (a 'hello', 'good-morning', wink, etc.) in passing is NOT an incitement to harrassment...it's just a polite exchange between one happy functioning human being to another...plain and simple...no underlying context...no underlying sexual advances...just a standard basic communication principle that is apparently being lost because technology and one's own self-importance (a comment NOT directed at the OP, but a general observation!) is more important than the needs of the species as a whole...19 -
I don't recall any woman in this thread complaining about people saying hello. The OP said she was wolf whistled, which is not a smile and a good morning. You're implying that, by injecting to objectification, that bullying women are repressing innocent men.
16 -
I've rambled on there...but the bottom line is this...a cat-call from a man or a woman (it happens!) is not always directly perverted...sometimes it's just what it is meant to be...an appreciation of the form of the male/female...and the OP's original post stated she did not know what was shouted...so it may have been an innocent call of flattery...but she didn't hear it so instantly assumed it was derogatory...we'll never truly know whether it was sexual harrassment or just an older fella admiring her...
How do you not see this is all one in the same? Unsolicited "appreciation" of someone's form is a textbook definition of sexual harassment. Unless someone has invited you to comment on their figure, don't. This is not that hard.especially when that reality is "Love Island"...seeing as we're talking about the blurred lines of acceptability...what is acceptable about that show?! A bunch of people hooking up and cheating on each other to be the winning couple for your entertainment?! Not for me thanks!
I've rambled on there...but the bottom line is this...a cat-call from a man or a woman (it happens!) is not always directly perverted...sometimes it's just what it is meant to be...an appreciation of the form of the male/female...and the OP's original post stated she did not know what was shouted...so it may have been an innocent call of flattery...but she didn't hear it so instantly assumed it was derogatory...we'll never truly know whether it was sexual harrassment or just an older fella admiring her...because clearly people don't like talking to other people unless it's behind the facade of a forum or chat room these days...and whilst they dispise so-called "unwanted" attention they'll happily watch a group of people getting together, arguing and cheating on each other for fun...that to me is a sad state of affairs!
What does this have to do with anythinggggg???? Whether or not people like entertainment that you don't like and may be questionable in quality has nothing at allll to do with strangers not harassing people they don't know in public.
9 -
OK...I expected a bit of backlash...but I'm strong enough to take it...because I'm not a precious little woolen lump...but just so I understand your diatribe...cat-calling a person in the flesh is bad...but posting in threads like those screengrabbed below is acceptable yes?!
I took that grab from this very forum displayed on page 1 of the 'Recent Discussions' and all but the 'crush' thread have thousands of replies...presumably from people registered here saying they would kiss (there are two separate 'kiss' threads!) or flirt with the person posting above...there are many similar threads on this forum...so tell me again what is acceptable behavior...
If you have no problem with those threads...then I'd say your worldview is pretty funked up! Because to me they are basically entry-level harrassment posts...
Now I have never been raped, or harrassed...but I do understand those that have experienced the horrors of unwanted attention/abuse may have deep seated issues...and I am truly sorry for whatever happened to you in your life that has made you so protective of your feelings...I do not condone in ANY WAY harrassment or abuse! But let's just take a breath and realise that in general people are not all rapists, murderers or even bad people...we're all just balls of flesh trying to get on in this world and yes there are *kitten* that take advantage of things to do horrible stuff...and specifically in relation to this thread that guy may have been a straight out pervert...I accept that...and if you are made to feel uncomfortable, then you are entitled to your opinion...but come on...where do we draw the line...
Those threads and people who "swipe left" as you said... Are WILLING PARTICIPANTS. I was someone taking a morning walk.
PS: "strong enough" to insult people because they don't agree with you? Doesn't strike me so much as strong as it does stubborn... And unable to see another individual's perspective... Especially seeing (as you said) you've never been subject to harassment....9 -
Well we'll all agree to disagree...I guess?! I see your points and all are valid...I respect your rights to your opinions...but I will stand and fight my corner as well as defend yours if called upon to do so (because for the record I am NOT stripping anyone of available avenues of support!)...because I fail to understand what has changed so much in this world to make people seemingly so unaware of the abundance of kind and good natured people that walk it, who interact with friends and strangers alike just exchanging pleasantries and acknowledging their existence...the Weinstein's, Fritzels and Bronsons of this world are horrifying people...but they shouldn't be the benchmark by which EVERYONE ELSE is judged...and it seems to be going that way?!?
A friendly natured "anything" (a 'hello', 'good-morning', wink, etc.) in passing is NOT an incitement to harrassment...it's just a polite exchange between one happy functioning human being to another...plain and simple...no underlying context...no underlying sexual advances...just a standard basic communication principle that is apparently being lost because technology and one's own self-importance (a comment NOT directed at the OP, but a general observation!) is more important than the needs of the species as a whole...
A cat call is not the same as a "hi." when i run i appreciate a "good morning." i do not appreciate a whistle. one acknowledges me as a person. one objectifies me.
those threads are consensual participants. and it really shouldn't be that hard to understand the difference.
if i'm running in shorts and a crop, no matter the reason, i do not deserve to be cat called. if i'm wearing a potato sack, i do no deserve to be cat called.10 -
If you weren't flattered, you weren't flattered. Period. I know some people enjoy that, but if you don't, you don't. Respect your own feelings. Catcalling is more about the person doing it than the person on the receiving end of it. The catcaller doesn't care whether or not you like it. It's about them making their feelings and sexuality known, and to hell with how it makes you feel. That doesn't make for a good person to me. I'm not letting that kind of person get to me.
Unless a person has been keeping themselves sheltered, they would know that women aren't taking much crap anymore, and much fewer women are taking random shoutouts as compliments. I do notice it seems to be older men more so than younger men doing it nowadays. Sad that they can't get with the times. It's throwback behavior that needs to go extinct along with a lot of other behaviors that were tolerated in the past.5 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
This should probably be used as the best practice for anyone so out of touch that they don't know where they are crossing that line.maureenseel1984 wrote: »
Women do it too-whether it is more or less frequently. It doesn't matter. Why can't we just look at each other and see people and...treat them as such?
Unfortunately too many people will quest for power in any way they can. Maybe the old dude on the bike hoped it would be taken more as a compliment, or maybe he just hoped it would get into your head. People are idiots on so many levels these days, it's hard to tell sometimes. I think some of them try to be idiots, and others just are idiots and don't realize it.
5 -
A cat call is not the same as a "hi." when i run i appreciate a "good morning." i do not appreciate a whistle. one acknowledges me as a person. one objectifies me.
I have to admit that I often won't even say Hi to a single woman out running unless I recognize her. I often run alone and don't want to come off as a creeper. If I'm running with my wife, I'm a bit friendlier.5 -
jiujitsudad15118 wrote: »You guys wont like my response so Ill refrain
But you didn't.10 -
My husband is the same (not running, but in other social situations). Last night he complimented our waitress on her friendly demeanor. After she left her said he likes it when I'm with him because he can say things like that without it seeming creepy. As a big, scruffy, somewhat imposing-looking guy, he's aware and sensitive to how his words and actions might make another person feel, regardless of their good intent.Tacklewasher wrote: »A cat call is not the same as a "hi." when i run i appreciate a "good morning." i do not appreciate a whistle. one acknowledges me as a person. one objectifies me.
I have to admit that I often won't even say Hi to a single woman out running unless I recognize her. I often run alone and don't want to come off as a creeper. If I'm running with my wife, I'm a bit friendlier.3
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