Am I really committing a crime against humanity?

snickerscharlie · August 2019

lemurcat2 wrote: »

"I find I feel better when I don't eat [whatever it is], so no thanks."

If they push, say just this once: "In my experience I know I won't feel good later if I do, but thanks for thinking of me!"

If they claim they made it just for you: "Oh, I'm so sorry, I really thought I'd told you that I'm not eating X any more. But it looks delicious, so more for others, right!"

I also do think it's reasonable for people to think someone might not normally eat dessert (or would not eat a bunch of snacky things from the store), but would appreciate a piece of homemade pie. (And would find "I don't eat processed things" a weird response, as lots of perfectly healthy foods are processed and pretty much no one avoids all processed items. I think the issue with eating pie in excess is cals, not "processing" -- I mean, a good stew doesn't grow on trees either, and could well contain processed ingredients like butter and a little cornstarch, a shrimp pasta with lots of veg contains flour (pasta), so on, and yet I'd scoff if someone insisted those are inherently "unhealthy.")

I personally almost never eat sweet baked goods, but I will bake them and eat them on holidays (with others). Me offering a slice of something then wouldn't be an act of hostility -- I don't keep up on other people's diets enough to know what they do and don't eat except for a few friends I know are vegetarian or vegan (one vegan friend goes back and forth from veg and often has different rules for holidays, so I'd probably tell her "it's got butter, do you want some" and not care if she said no. In fact, I am not offended if anyone says no and don't worry that others will be if I say no. Sometimes "I have to eat it or she will be upset" is a message in your own mind to shift the responsibility for deciding to eat it.

Anyway, we probably have very different lives as I can't imagine anyone caring that much about what I eat or having an opportunity to offer me cakes all the time. We have tons of sweets (including good ones) at work and work events and other social events around Christmas, of course, but no one pushes it or really notices who consumes it. My mom used to have lots of sweets available at Thanksgiving and Christmastime, but she wouldn't care if I consumed it or not, and I didn't take "want a cookie" as her pushing me to eat (I'd say "sure" or "no, I'd rather have a clementine" or "not hungry" depending). That said, if I did experience a situation like you describe, weird and overthetop as it seems to be, I'd use the responses at the beginning of my post.

As always, a great post.

But I especially wanted to point out the bolded because I think it can be at the very crux of most situations like these.

glovepuppet · August 2019

I'm an all or nothing kinda person. Either you respect my right to autonomy over all of my body, or I have nothing to do with you.

MelanieCN77 · August 2019

Being an "all or nothing" person isn't genetic, which is good news because it means it's something you can work on and change if you try. Someone up thread mentioned you might benefit from therapy and I agree. I know that's not the easiest thing to arrange and maintain but it is worth looking into in some form. That and learning some coping mechanisms for managing your food around others would be really beneficial. I know it is difficult but the control is all yours, I assure you.

glovepuppet · August 2019

Oh, and therapy is awesome. The OP would probably benefit a lot from talking about these conflicts.

zebasschick · August 2019

while i mostly try and be around people who respect my choices and believes that i'm capable of making good choices for myself, sometimes it ain't easy. i stopped being around a few people at any times when food is involved, and that can get complicated, but i gotta do me and for whatever reason, they wanted to feed me.

cbihatt · August 2019

I am sorry you are feeling this way. It’s hard any time you make a change, but even more so when you feel unsupported.

That said, I think you should try to stop taking the situations you mentioned so personally. People offering you food (whether it is junk food or not) is not a hostile act. People eating food in front of you (after you have declined an offer) is definitely not so.

Sometimes it is simply a case of other people not believing that you have actually changed your behavior. If you have previously been a person who eats all the food, it may take an adjustment period for those around you to understand that you are different now. That’s just human nature. If you stick to your decisions and remain firm in your denials, others will eventually stop being so pushy about offering you things. Right now, they just aren’t convinced you don’t want the food.

Regardless, you don’t have to explain your choices to others or get their approval or participation to change your eating habits. Ignore the negativity and get on with it. It will probably be difficult for awhile, but you can do this.

snickerscharlie · August 2019

When I was in my weight loss phase (and now, over 2 years in maintenance) my go-to in situations like these is to say that I'm really full and that I just wouldn't appreciate the <whatever they are offering> right now. I then ask to take some of whatever it is home with me so that I can fully enjoy it the next day.

Then, depending on what it is, I can either make room for it in my 'budget' the next day and enjoy the heck out of it, or trash it. Either way, it's my choice and mine alone.

paperpudding · August 2019

I agree you need to learn to say No.
Politely, humourously even, but with finality.

Somebody mentioned that others subconciously do this to get a rise out of you - is worth considering whether you are subconciously feeding in to this too - if you get defensive or on your high horse about processed or junk food or get into discussion or argument - rather than polite no, and then move on.

I also think people are not sabotaging you - that is taking their behaviour too personally and ascribing them motives they probably don't have.

Most people probably are just not interested in your WOE and don't keep up with what you will or won't eat or what you consider junk or processed - they are just offering food because it is polite thing to do and/or they are just trying to be nice to you.
You are not a food addict though and it is not impossible to stick to your diet - I think you need to let go of that extremist type thinking too.

lemurcat2 · August 2019

MelanieCN77 wrote: »

Being an "all or nothing" person isn't genetic, which is good news because it means it's something you can work on and change if you try. Someone up thread mentioned you might benefit from therapy and I agree. I know that's not the easiest thing to arrange and maintain but it is worth looking into in some form. That and learning some coping mechanisms for managing your food around others would be really beneficial. I know it is difficult but the control is all yours, I assure you.

This is true, IME.

I actually used to have the all or nothing thing about food -- if I wasn't eating exactly as planned I'd have this weird "well, screwed up already so might as well make the most of it until I decide I'm ready to eat well again."

MFP helped me a lot with that since I started focusing more on not exceeding my cals rather than trying to eat "perfectly" and I saw I could do that even with an off plan day (and also that the off plan day could easily stay below maintenance even if I was over my cals).

It helped with exercise as well. When I first started (and did not have a consistent exercise habit) I had a crazy long hours/stressful week at work and missed all my planned exercise times. I realized that in the past I would have decided nothing was going right and eaten poorly too and just quit entirely for a while. This time, using MFP, I focused on hitting my cals and told myself it was okay to take a week off exercise and I'd start again the next week.

Therapy of course can help with this too. Both something like CBT to focus on problematic thinking patterns and also just having someone to talk to about it.

biggiwig4483 · August 2019

A simple polite No will do it most times. And people usually won’t offer it twice. My mom used to be very pushy with me. One day I got so mad, took the cake that she offered me 4 times and through it in the trash right in front of her. Lesson learned! Sorry guys, being a german I am very direct with people, probably rude for american standard 😀.

Hannahwalksfar · August 2019

glovepuppet wrote: »

I'm an all or nothing kinda person. Either you respect my right to autonomy over all of my body, or I have nothing to do with you.

Me too. I’m ruthless when it comes to bodily autonomy

wenrob · August 2019

You don’t owe anyone an explanation so stop explaining yourself.
“Would you like some of this?”
“No, thank you.”
“It’s just a bite, it won’t hurt you.”
Look them directly in the eye and firmly say, “No, thank you.”
If you refuse to argue/debate/explain they’ve really got nothing to work with. If they persist you can point out how rude they’re being when you’ve clearly said no. Or you can simply walk away.

As far as addiction to “junk food” like anything else it becomes mind over matter. There are people who just aren’t moderators but success with weight loss and maintenance comes from balance. It’s unrealistic to think you will never eat a cookie or piece of pie again. If you never allow it you will always cave and binge eventually. I’m not saying you have to work it in daily but if you give yourself permission to indulge on occasion the urge to dive head first into a binge will slowly fade. Knowing you CAN have it but choose not to is far better mentally than telling yourself you can NEVER have it.

Crafty_camper123 · August 2019

wenrob wrote: »

You don’t owe anyone an explanation so stop explaining yourself.
“Would you like some of this?”
“No, thank you.”
“It’s just a bite, it won’t hurt you.”
Look them directly in the eye and firmly say, “No, thank you.”
If you refuse to argue/debate/explain they’ve really got nothing to work with. If they persist you can point out how rude they’re being when you’ve clearly said no. Or you can simply walk away.

As far as addiction to “junk food” like anything else it becomes mind over matter. There are people who just aren’t moderators but success with weight loss and maintenance comes from balance. It’s unrealistic to think you will never eat a cookie or piece of pie again. If you never allow it you will always cave and binge eventually. I’m not saying you have to work it in daily but if you give yourself permission to indulge on occasion the urge to dive head first into a binge will slowly fade. Knowing you CAN have it but choose not to is far better mentally than telling yourself you can NEVER have it.

This. If I tell myself "I'm not allowed to eat that." I'll eventually have a mini binge whenever I get ahold of that. But if I tell myself "I'm not eating that right now, maybe later" I wont be as likely to binge on it. It's a total mental game, but it helps me greatly to know I'm allowed to eat the junky thing, but not right now.

Some effective responses for me have been (escpecially if No Thanks isn't working):
"Oh I really appreciate the offer, but I'm not hungry. I would love to, but I have no room from what I ate earlier"
" I'm trying to be good, so I'm not going to eat that today. But thank you I really appreciate it."
" I would love to, but when I eat that stuff I get an upset stomach."
Showering them in gratitude and then being firm in my "no" seems to help them seem less offended and concerned.

Maybe as an activity to help you for the future when you feel comfortable re-introducing your trigger foods, is to keep a journal about it. Write down what you ate- how it made you feel, and if you binge on it, write about what you were thinking and feeling at the time. Maybe it will help you gain insight to prevent future binges on the stuff you consider junk. Heck- start that journal now. Write about your goals and what you hope to achieve with your current way of eating. Review it when times get tough. And when times get tough write about that too. Just having a mind dump no matter what it is can be greatly theraputic.

lgfrie · August 2019

Learning to be firm with people who aren't diet-supportive is really difficult. I have been struggling with this issue with a particular person for a long time and couldn't find a way to successfully manage the problem. Finally I had to lay down the law, as in "Look, I am on a F'ing diet and you have got to get on board and be supportive. Don't put temptations in front of someone who's easily tempted. Be a FRIEND." I then had to repeat that speech another three or four times but now the message is finally getting through. Sometimes you have to really bring the hammer down to get people to tune in. Yes, it can cause hurt feelings temporarily. Hurt feelings are better than Diabetes.

Hollis100 · August 2019

Lots of good suggestions here on how to say no and stand up for yourself.

One more thought. Minefields and all, social events with food are part of our culture. I suggest you take a bowl of food to share, like a large bowl of mixed fruit or something else you can enjoy. I do that as a vegetarian.

If you're eating something, anything, it makes you seem more like you're taking part in the event. You're less likely to attract unwanted attention.

Good luck!

kshama2001 · August 2019

WinoGelato wrote: »

Certainly for some people, abstaining can be a more sustainable choice than moderating.

That said - you keep using a blanket phrase of “Junk Food” to describe your problem foods and that’s really hard to ascertain what you mean. That’s such a broad and sweeping classifications, it would be like telling people you are eating “healthy food” and expecting them to know exactly what you mean.

So what is in your definition of junk food? From your post it sounds like you are talking specifically about sweets - you mention pies, cakes, chocolate.... it can be helpful to narrow down exactly what it is that you have difficulty moderating. Most people, when pressed, realize that it’s not ALL sweets but that it’s something like ice cream or Oreos or a specific candy that they have self control issues. And then other types of sweets, really aren’t so difficult to control. So is that the situation here?

You also use the phrase “junk food addiction” and liken it to drug and alcohol abuse. That’s the thing again- junk food isn’t addictive. There is no single ingredient in such a broad classification that would be consistent and cause a physiological dependency. But again, some foods, some situations, can create emotional feelings for people that make it difficult to control. Pinpointing those foods and those situations can be helpful in learning how to cope.

Who are the people who are saying these things to you? Are they family members? Friends? Coworkers? This seems like an excessive amount of attention on what someone else is eating.

Here's more on that: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-happiness-project/201210/are-you-abstainer-or-moderator

When dealing with temptation, I often see the advice, “Be moderate. Don’t have ice cream every night, but if you try to deny yourself altogether, you’ll fall off the wagon. Allow yourself to have the occasional treat, it will help you stick to your plan.”

I’ve come to believe that this is good advice for some people: the “moderators.” They do better when they avoid absolutes and strict rules.

For a long time, I kept trying this strategy of moderation–and failing. Then I read a line from Samuel Johnson, who said, when someone offered him wine: “Abstinence is as easy to me as temperance would be difficult.”

Ah ha! Like Dr. Johnson, I’m an “abstainer.”

I find it far easier to give something up altogether than to indulge moderately. When I admitted to myself that I was eating my favorite frozen yogurt treat very often–two and even three times a day–I gave it up cold turkey. That was far easier for me to do than to eat it twice a week. If I try to be moderate, I exhaust myself debating, “Today, tomorrow?” “Does this time ‘count’?” “Don’t I deserve this?” etc. If I never do something, it requires no self-control for me; if I do something sometimes, it requires enormous self-control.

There’s no right way or wrong way–it’s just a matter of knowing which strategy works better for you. If moderators try to abstain, they feel trapped and rebellious. If abstainers try to be moderate, they spend a lot of precious energy justifying why they should go ahead and indulge.

kshama2001 · August 2019

WinoGelato wrote: »

Gamliela wrote: »

I doubt the op needs therapy.

Actually many here who have struggled with out of control eating have benefited significantly from Cognitive Behavior Therapy.

@kshama2001 usually has a lot of helpful advice and references for these type of situations.

This?

Sometimes people avoid therapy because they think it will be years and years about talking about your childhood. That's Freudian, not Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

This book on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for overeating was available in my library system, so perhaps yours as well.

The Beck Diet Solution: Train Your Brain to Think Like a Thin Person

Can thinking and eating like a thin person be learned, similar to learning to drive or use a computer? Beck (Cognitive Therapy for Challenging Problems) contends so, based on decades of work with patients who have lost pounds and maintained weight through Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Beck's six-week program adapts CBT, a therapeutic system developed by Beck's father, Aaron, in the 1960s, to specific challenges faced by yo-yo dieters, including negative thinking, bargaining, emotional eating, bingeing, and eating out. Beck counsels readers day-by-day, introducing new elements (creating advantage response cards, choosing a diet, enlisting a diet coach, making a weight-loss graph) progressively and offering tools to help readers stay focused (writing exercises, to-do lists, ways to counter negative thoughts). There are no eating plans, calorie counts, recipes or exercises; according to Beck, any healthy diet will work if readers learn to think differently about eating and food. Beck's book is like an extended therapy session with a diet coach. (Apr.)

LyndaBSS · August 2019

I'm sorry that the people around you aren't supporting you on your journey. Wayne Dyer said "you get treated in life the way you teach people to treat you". It's so true. I've experienced it first hand.

If I were in your shoes I would tell them outright that I feel hurt by their comments, that achieving weight loss is important to me and that I would appreciate they either support me or stop the commentary.

Good luck!

kshama2001 · August 2019

wenrob wrote: »

You don’t owe anyone an explanation so stop explaining yourself.
“Would you like some of this?”
“No, thank you.”
“It’s just a bite, it won’t hurt you.”
Look them directly in the eye and firmly say, “No, thank you.”
If you refuse to argue/debate/explain they’ve really got nothing to work with. If they persist you can point out how rude they’re being when you’ve clearly said no. Or you can simply walk away.

[snip].

This was what I was going to suggest - picking a phrase and repeating it until they get the point and stop. It has worked well for me, even with really difficult people.

With less difficult people, like my mother, who is just being a food pusher because she believes it is the polite thing to do, I might offer an explanation, "No thanks, I am saving room for X*."

I do eat X later, but you don't have to.

* In this case it is the famous peach cobbler than someone makes every year for the 4th. Mom totally gets me saving room for that and stops pushing other food.

RelCanonical · August 2019

wenrob wrote: »

You don’t owe anyone an explanation so stop explaining yourself.
“Would you like some of this?”
“No, thank you.”
“It’s just a bite, it won’t hurt you.”
Look them directly in the eye and firmly say, “No, thank you.”
If you refuse to argue/debate/explain they’ve really got nothing to work with. If they persist you can point out how rude they’re being when you’ve clearly said no. Or you can simply walk away.

As far as addiction to “junk food” like anything else it becomes mind over matter. There are people who just aren’t moderators but success with weight loss and maintenance comes from balance. It’s unrealistic to think you will never eat a cookie or piece of pie again. If you never allow it you will always cave and binge eventually. I’m not saying you have to work it in daily but if you give yourself permission to indulge on occasion the urge to dive head first into a binge will slowly fade. Knowing you CAN have it but choose not to is far better mentally than telling yourself you can NEVER have it.

I've been practicing the firm, polite, and disarming dismissal. Basically, I say some form of, "No, I'm good, but THANK YOU SO MUCH," with emphasis on the sincerity of the thank-you. What I try to project is a feeling of "you are an amazing person for offering me this food, I don't deserve your kindness". By humbling myself, I'm trying to still give them the "good feels" of offering the food to me without actually taking it, because for many, that's all they're looking for. It might weird them out a little, but it's the perfect distraction from the fact that I didn't actually take the food.

Am I really committing a crime against humanity?

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