Minimum salt and sugar
PWHF
Posts: 221 Member
Is there anything wrong with maintaining numbers way below the sodium and sugar in my daily macros?
Is there a minimum requirement that is unhealthy to go below on a consistent basis?
Is there a minimum requirement that is unhealthy to go below on a consistent basis?
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Replies
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Short answer - sugar no. Salt maybe.
I don’t know the actual numbers in mcg for salt, but there is a need for a certain amount of sodium in the diet to replace that lost to the body via sweat and urine, basically. Lack of salt can cause muscle cramping amongst other things. It would also depend whether you have a medical requirement to avoid salt/sodium i.e. high blood pressure.
I’m sure somebody who is more up on the science aspects will be able to advise more.11 -
I would consult a nutritionist.4
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BuddhaBunnyFTW wrote: »I would consult a nutritionist.
Just to clarify on this, a Registered Dietician would be beneficial over a Nutritionist, any charlatan in most countries can call themselves a nutritionist with little to no training or qualifications (not to say they are all bad but it's not regulated). Whereas a Registered Dietician would be degree qualified and is usually required to have done an internship with someone who is already licensed.
I could become a nutritionist by placing an ad online saying I am one.18 -
BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »Short answer - sugar no. Salt maybe.
Agree with this.
Most people don't have to worry about sodium. If you have very low salt in your diet and sweat a lot due to heat or workouts, you might want to consider sports drink to replenish some electrolytes (including sodium).
However, I suspect most people have more sodium in their diet than gets counted, and the sodium number is not a minimum. I add a bit of salt when cooking and don't log it, personally. There are plenty of entries or estimates where the sodium is likely not included. Of course, if you eat basically whole foods, don't go to restaurants, etc., never use any salt or seasoning containing salt, that could be different. Depending on how low the sodium actually is, you might want to ask your doctor or an RD.5 -
Depends on how low your salt numbers are, but I suspect you're fine. There is a minimum threshold of salt intake needed for your body to function properly, but unless you're a serious, hardcore athlete or really, really overdoing it on the water, you're probably fine. If you're worried about it, keep an eye on your bloodwork with your doctor. If you're not getting enough, it will show up there.1
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Sodium: the 2300 that MFP suggests is actually pretty high and kind of old-school. A limit of 1500 is recommended by the American Heart Association and I usually eat to that, which is a very comfortable level for me -- just dump the processed and junky food, eat healthy, and that'll pretty much get you to 1500 without difficulty. You can certainly take it down to 1000 mg without concern and I think any doctor would be pleased if you did. If by "way below" you mean like 500 mg, then you should be discussing this with a doctor, not a forum or dietitian, a doctor. Too much sodium is bad, but too little sodium in the blood (hyponatremia) is a very, very serious medical condition.
There is no minimum dietary sugar level.6 -
Thanks all. I suspect a lot of the foods I put in don't show up the actual amount of sodium, a lot of them show 0 so I think I'm probably OK.3
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Do you have specific medical conditions which require you to limit salt or sugar?2
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I notice my weight goes up the next day if I eat salty foods or a pickle, but it’s temporary. Definitely watch going too low with sodium- as others have said, too little sodium is dangerous.2
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A woo for noting the sodium guidelines of the American Heart Association?
LOL5 -
Per my diabetes handbook from my dietitian:
Sodium is essential to maintain the right balance of fluids in your body; help transmit nerve impulses; and influence the contraction and relaxation of muscles, among others.
2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommends: Maximum of 2,300 mg of sodium per day for a healthy adult (this is also what you will see on MFP). Maximum of 1,500 mg of sodium per day if you have high blood pressure, kidney disease, diabetes, are African-American, middle-aged or older. (That being said, I am 60 and diabetic and my dietitian is happy with me currently staying under 1,900 mg daily as I work towards my goal of 1,700 mg daily. Huge improvement over my previous 4,500 mg of sodium daily).
The National Heart, Blood, and Lung Association recommend 500 mg of sodium as a minimum as some is needed for your body to function properly. (Personally I would run this by my doctor if planning to go this low).
Hope this helps.2 -
Is there anything wrong with maintaining numbers way below the sodium and sugar in my daily macros?
Is there a minimum requirement that is unhealthy to go below on a consistent basis?
Sugar, no...
But sodium is an essential electrolyte...it would depend on how low you are going in addition to activity, sweating, etc...but yes, it could potentially be bad depending.4 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Do you have specific medical conditions which require you to limit salt or sugar?
No - pure vanity and water retention avoidance. I have no problem hitting daily calories and macros but before my sodium was always way over, especially when I was eating a lot of meat substitute meals. I keep sugar down anyway as I'm doing a slow carb (Tim Ferris 4HB) diet.
I'm eating some salted peanuts as I type this so I'm not going to obsess over it however I think a lot of foods in the MFP DB don't show the sodium level. Most of what I log shows up as 0 sodium which can't be right...1 -
The few times I was eating something new that hasn't made it into the database yet, I just entered calories and macros. I'm sure most people have done the same. Only the green checked items have been filled out completely - although that does not guarantee that they are correct.1
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The few times I was eating something new that hasn't made it into the database yet, I just entered calories and macros. I'm sure most people have done the same. Only the green checked items have been filled out completely - although that does not guarantee that they are correct.
There are things that are fully entered and accurate per the product label, but that don't have green checks. I know this because I entered them. (Why would I create inaccurate entries, when it costs me mere seconds to make them accurate, as long as I'm right there looking at the label?!)
The green checks, IMU, mean that a certain number of people have bothered to click a button saying the entry is accurate. They may not be accurate, anyway.6 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Do you have specific medical conditions which require you to limit salt or sugar?
No - pure vanity and water retention avoidance. I have no problem hitting daily calories and macros but before my sodium was always way over, especially when I was eating a lot of meat substitute meals. I keep sugar down anyway as I'm doing a slow carb (Tim Ferris 4HB) diet.
I'm eating some salted peanuts as I type this so I'm not going to obsess over it however I think a lot of foods in the MFP DB don't show the sodium level. Most of what I log shows up as 0 sodium which can't be right...
That is precisely why you shouldn't rely on the database. If there isn't an entry that matches the nutrition label on whatever you're eating, make your own. If there is no nutrition label, go and do a search for the item on the usda website. This is the only way to ensure accuracy.
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The few times I was eating something new that hasn't made it into the database yet, I just entered calories and macros. I'm sure most people have done the same. Only the green checked items have been filled out completely - although that does not guarantee that they are correct.
There are things that are fully entered and accurate per the product label, but that don't have green checks. I know this because I entered them. (Why would I create inaccurate entries, when it costs me mere seconds to make them accurate, as long as I'm right there looking at the label?!)
The green checks, IMU, mean that a certain number of people have bothered to click a button saying the entry is accurate. They may not be accurate, anyway.
Thanks. The way the FAQ explains it is rather vague. Something like "when MFP believes a food is entered completely and accurately". It gives no explanation about how the software determines this. As an app user, I was unaware that users could rate a food as accurate. That is another feature the app doesn't have.0 -
Hyponatremia (low salt in the blood) can cause potentially fatal heart arrythmias and irreversible brain damage.
Talk to a dietician before your horror of water retention kills you.
From your friendly neighborhood nurse.1 -
duskyjewel wrote: »Hyponatremia (low salt in the blood) can cause potentially fatal heart arrythmias and irreversible brain damage.
Talk to a dietician before your horror of water retention kills you.
From your friendly neighborhood nurse.
That does sound worse than water retention. I think my salt intake is probably OK based on all the foods in MFB which show sodium as 0 being inaccurate. I'm going to ignore sodium in my numbers unless it starts going back to double the daily recommended - which it was when i was eating meat substitutes a lot.0 -
As I suspected I've gone through several of the regular foods I log that have 0 sodium and updated them with actual values. My typical daily intake has gone from way under to almost 2g over...0
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As I suspected I've gone through several of the regular foods I log that have 0 sodium and updated them with actual values. My typical daily intake has gone from way under to almost 2g over...
That is a real problem on MFP - people creating entries without the sodium # or other #'s they aren't interested in. When I create a Food entry, I enter all fields which the manufacturer provides, as kind of a contribution to the public square, since the only #'s I care about are calories, sodium, and protein.
Always check an MFP entry in detail before using. Always.4 -
If you have 2 properly functioning kidneys, sodium will most likely regulate itself.0
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psychod787 wrote: »If you have 2 properly functioning kidneys, sodium will most likely regulate itself.
When you have high blood pressure, sodium becomes one of the most important variables in your life, even if your kidneys are winning awards for excellence.3 -
psychod787 wrote: »If you have 2 properly functioning kidneys, sodium will most likely regulate itself.
When you have high blood pressure, sodium becomes one of the most important variables in your life, even if your kidneys are winning awards for excellence.
Really? Being overweight is a far greater driver of hypertension in general. There is some evidence that sodium is an issue. There is also some that its not.0 -
With salt i believe you will need a minimum to maintain a healthy balance but with sugar, the less the better0
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psychod787 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »If you have 2 properly functioning kidneys, sodium will most likely regulate itself.
When you have high blood pressure, sodium becomes one of the most important variables in your life, even if your kidneys are winning awards for excellence.
Really? Being overweight is a far greater driver of hypertension in general. There is some evidence that sodium is an issue. There is also some that its not.
Sure, being obese is very bad for hypertension. So is excessive sodium. I'm pretty sure that is as close to "established medical fact" as anything out there. Not being a doctor, I won't argue the point, but having been told by several doctors over the years to reduce reduce reduce my sodium intake to avoid hypertension, I'll stick with that.
I know that when I have a very salty meal, my BP rockets up 15-20 points, and when I'm being really diligent about sticking to the 1500 mg my doc recommended, it's 10 points lower than when I get lazy and consume a more typical 2500-3000 mg. The relationship of BP and sodium is quite explicit in my little n=1 data sample.1 -
psychod787 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »If you have 2 properly functioning kidneys, sodium will most likely regulate itself.
When you have high blood pressure, sodium becomes one of the most important variables in your life, even if your kidneys are winning awards for excellence.
Really? Being overweight is a far greater driver of hypertension in general. There is some evidence that sodium is an issue. There is also some that its not.
Sure, being obese is very bad for hypertension. So is excessive sodium. I'm pretty sure that is as close to "established medical fact" as anything out there. Not being a doctor, I won't argue the point, but having been told by several doctors over the years to reduce reduce reduce my sodium intake to avoid hypertension, I'll stick with that.
I know that when I have a very salty meal, my BP rockets up 15-20 points, and when I'm being really diligent about sticking to the 1500 mg my doc recommended, it's 10 points lower than when I get lazy and consume a more typical 2500-3000 mg. The relationship of BP and sodium is quite explicit in my little n=1 data sample.
Ok, the body likes to maintain a certain homeostatic range for sodium. If it didn't, we would all he dead from Hypernatremia. In general if someone has a few high sodium days, they will retain some water and then either sweat or piss it out. So i go back to my original statement. AS LONG AS SOMEONE HAS 2 GOOD WORKING KIDNEYS. Sodium is not the greatest thing to worry about. I am NOT advocating for someone to eat 5+ grams of salt a day, but a few days is not that great of a concern.0 -
For people who do not have preexisting hypertension issues, salt is no concern at all, because the kidneys do their job. Salt does not cause hypertension.
For people who already have hypertension, however, they can have problems with salt making their blood pressure worse and may have to restrict it. Probably because so many of the causes of hypertension either cause kidney damage or are related to kidney disease in the first place.1 -
As OP has no hypertension issues. As little as 500mg a day will suffice.0
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