Beginning Nov 1, 2019, the free version of the diary will only save data for last two years
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I haven't read all the responses 730 days seems generous in comparison.
Then you should have read the discussion.
I am most certainly not even discussing whether MFP has a right to offer whatever bargain they want MOVING FORWARD and after a formal and publicized change of terms announcement.
I am discussing and objecting to retroactively and unilateraly changing the terms of service in a way which causes damage to me and with no official notice. Compare this to change of terms announcements you may have received from PayPal or Google or Microsoft.
What is most galling is that they can easily avoid *any* damage by arranging for a one-time export of data they're removing access to.
Unless you want me to adopt the even more cynical outlook that all this is all just a ransom demand to extract a one month subscription while subjecting everyone to the hassles associated with starting and stopping such a subscription.
We should not have to jump through hoops to get our data that MFP has decided to discard.
Simple as that.
They have not changed the terms of service. They are changing the features offered, which is very different. They are clearly allowed to do this within the terms:1.3 Service Updates, Changes and Limitations
Our Services are constantly evolving. With the launch of new products, services, and features, we need the flexibility to make changes, impose limits, and occasionally suspend or terminate certain Services. We may also update our Services, which might not work properly if you don't install the updates.
The Services change frequently, and their form and functionality may change without prior notice to you.
We may provide updates (including automatic updates) for certain Services as and when we see fit. This may include upgrades, modifications, bug fixes, patches and other error corrections and/or new features (collectively, “Updates”). Certain portions of our Services may not properly operate if you do not install all Updates. You acknowledge and agree that the Service may not work properly if you do not allow such Updates and you expressly consent to automatic Updates. Further, you agree that the Terms (and any additional modifications of the same) will apply to any and all Updates to the Services. We may change, suspend, or discontinue any or all of the Services at any time, including the availability of any product, feature, database, or Content. In addition, we have no obligation to provide any Updates or to continue to provide or enable any particular features or functionality of any Service. We may also impose limits on certain Services or restrict your access to part or all of the Services without notice or liability.
Their terms of service never promised you irrevocable, lifetime access to them storing your data for you. At best that could be considered a feature, which they have the right to revoke without any notice (even though they are in fact giving notice). They could make it so that adding new food entries to the diaries was a premium only feature with no notice, and it would still be 100% allowed under their terms of service.
Yeah, unfortunately all of life is about this...things changing without notice.
When this site was privately owned the owner pledged that there would never be a fee. Then money got involved.
Sad. I hope they don't take away the ability to create new foods, that would be really unfortunate. I can see where/why that would happen, but it would effectively make the database unusable. I have a $ number in mind that I would be willing to spend to keep *certain* features, but the current Premium membership cost is W A Y too high.
Just like I have a tap-out dollar amount on Netflix, and Netflix is inching up on that amount these days...
Also, why is cell phone service now $80 a month? I don't think that's gouging at all. *COUGH*5 -
How do I export the exercise data?
Don't care about the food data ... I've been eating the same stuff for 4.5 years now. But I do care about the exercise data.
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born_of_fire74 wrote: »You have obviously overlooked the clause in most every agreement you have made with a service provider stating the service provider can change the agreement at any time they feel whereas you are beholden to it. Examples abound of banks, phone service, cable service, utility services etc. arbitrarily altering the terms of service in for-pay situations—increasing fees without changing the service, reducing service without reducing fees, outright cancellation of various services without reducing fees...My cable bill goes up reliably by a few dollars at least twice a year and I am now paying literally 3x as much for cable as I was when I first procured the service from the cable provider while making no changes at all to my services.
I’m not saying that any of this is right in any way; it is, however, disgustingly commonplace so your level of ire over changes made to a free service is quizzical. Remember the scene in The Empire Strikes Back on Bespin when we learn that Lando has betrayed Han and Leia to Darth Vader? “Pray that I don’t alter the deal further”
You're ignoring the fact that I've repeatedly stated that it is both commonplace and normal for companies to change terms and conditions MOVING FORWARD. It is usually announced to their user base. New terms and conditions are emailed with the changes highlighted. Provisions are made for "seamless transition" especially when service level reductions are taking place. I invite you to point me to companies that have deliberately deleted user data without giving their users the option to download them (unless it was in the context of bankruptcy).
Cable companies have a certain reputation for acting the way you describe. So do garbage collection companies. And so does LogmeIn in the digital domain.
Companies that present themselves as leaders in the digital domain and as responsive to their customers do not change terms and conditions without announcement and do not trap their users' data in a manner that presents the odor of a ransom demand. Once we establish that it is ransom, whether the pay-out is $1, $9.99, or $7,927.82 (1 bitcoin) is not relevant!
Since I believe that UnderArmour is neither a smuggling operation, nor a company that operates in a manner similar to that of companies that have been rumored to have ties to criminal organizations, I do expect them to meet (and as a public company exceed) base business norms.
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Thanks for the heads up and those lyrics, I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden...ran through my mind. Understood and appreciated for giving us the news.2
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How do I export the exercise data?
Don't care about the food data ... I've been eating the same stuff for 4.5 years now. But I do care about the exercise data.
That one I haven't figured out. There are better trackers for keeping those stats, though -- so this might be a good time to jump over to Runkeeper, which gives a lot of features for free. (It's owned by Asics now, which I don't love, but at least Asics hasn't messed up all of the good features.)
If you can manually see each day's exercise data in your diary, it'll be a giant time suck, but you could manually then enter them into Runkeeper and postdate each entry.0 -
cmriverside wrote: »I haven't read all the responses 730 days seems generous in comparison.
Then you should have read the discussion.
I am most certainly not even discussing whether MFP has a right to offer whatever bargain they want MOVING FORWARD and after a formal and publicized change of terms announcement.
I am discussing and objecting to retroactively and unilateraly changing the terms of service in a way which causes damage to me and with no official notice. Compare this to change of terms announcements you may have received from PayPal or Google or Microsoft.
What is most galling is that they can easily avoid *any* damage by arranging for a one-time export of data they're removing access to.
Unless you want me to adopt the even more cynical outlook that all this is all just a ransom demand to extract a one month subscription while subjecting everyone to the hassles associated with starting and stopping such a subscription.
We should not have to jump through hoops to get our data that MFP has decided to discard.
Simple as that.
They have not changed the terms of service. They are changing the features offered, which is very different. They are clearly allowed to do this within the terms:1.3 Service Updates, Changes and Limitations
Our Services are constantly evolving. With the launch of new products, services, and features, we need the flexibility to make changes, impose limits, and occasionally suspend or terminate certain Services. We may also update our Services, which might not work properly if you don't install the updates.
The Services change frequently, and their form and functionality may change without prior notice to you.
We may provide updates (including automatic updates) for certain Services as and when we see fit. This may include upgrades, modifications, bug fixes, patches and other error corrections and/or new features (collectively, “Updates”). Certain portions of our Services may not properly operate if you do not install all Updates. You acknowledge and agree that the Service may not work properly if you do not allow such Updates and you expressly consent to automatic Updates. Further, you agree that the Terms (and any additional modifications of the same) will apply to any and all Updates to the Services. We may change, suspend, or discontinue any or all of the Services at any time, including the availability of any product, feature, database, or Content. In addition, we have no obligation to provide any Updates or to continue to provide or enable any particular features or functionality of any Service. We may also impose limits on certain Services or restrict your access to part or all of the Services without notice or liability.
Their terms of service never promised you irrevocable, lifetime access to them storing your data for you. At best that could be considered a feature, which they have the right to revoke without any notice (even though they are in fact giving notice). They could make it so that adding new food entries to the diaries was a premium only feature with no notice, and it would still be 100% allowed under their terms of service.
Yeah, unfortunately all of life is about this...things changing without notice.
When this site was privately owned the owner pledged that there would never be a fee. Then money got involved.
Sad. I hope they don't take away the ability to create new foods, that would be really unfortunate. I can see where/why that would happen, but it would effectively make the database unusable. I have a $ number in mind that I would be willing to spend to keep *certain* features, but the current Premium membership cost is W A Y too high.
Just like I have a tap-out dollar amount on Netflix, and Netflix is inching up on that amount these days...
Also, why is cell phone service now $80 a month? I don't think that's gouging at all. *COUGH*
So true about Netflix. I decided this summer to cancel, because I really wasn't getting enough out of it to justify the escalating costs, especially when I already have Amazon Prime.
I thought I'd miss it, but I really haven't.3 -
collectingblues wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I haven't read all the responses 730 days seems generous in comparison.
Then you should have read the discussion.
I am most certainly not even discussing whether MFP has a right to offer whatever bargain they want MOVING FORWARD and after a formal and publicized change of terms announcement.
I am discussing and objecting to retroactively and unilateraly changing the terms of service in a way which causes damage to me and with no official notice. Compare this to change of terms announcements you may have received from PayPal or Google or Microsoft.
What is most galling is that they can easily avoid *any* damage by arranging for a one-time export of data they're removing access to.
Unless you want me to adopt the even more cynical outlook that all this is all just a ransom demand to extract a one month subscription while subjecting everyone to the hassles associated with starting and stopping such a subscription.
We should not have to jump through hoops to get our data that MFP has decided to discard.
Simple as that.
They have not changed the terms of service. They are changing the features offered, which is very different. They are clearly allowed to do this within the terms:1.3 Service Updates, Changes and Limitations
Our Services are constantly evolving. With the launch of new products, services, and features, we need the flexibility to make changes, impose limits, and occasionally suspend or terminate certain Services. We may also update our Services, which might not work properly if you don't install the updates.
The Services change frequently, and their form and functionality may change without prior notice to you.
We may provide updates (including automatic updates) for certain Services as and when we see fit. This may include upgrades, modifications, bug fixes, patches and other error corrections and/or new features (collectively, “Updates”). Certain portions of our Services may not properly operate if you do not install all Updates. You acknowledge and agree that the Service may not work properly if you do not allow such Updates and you expressly consent to automatic Updates. Further, you agree that the Terms (and any additional modifications of the same) will apply to any and all Updates to the Services. We may change, suspend, or discontinue any or all of the Services at any time, including the availability of any product, feature, database, or Content. In addition, we have no obligation to provide any Updates or to continue to provide or enable any particular features or functionality of any Service. We may also impose limits on certain Services or restrict your access to part or all of the Services without notice or liability.
Their terms of service never promised you irrevocable, lifetime access to them storing your data for you. At best that could be considered a feature, which they have the right to revoke without any notice (even though they are in fact giving notice). They could make it so that adding new food entries to the diaries was a premium only feature with no notice, and it would still be 100% allowed under their terms of service.
Yeah, unfortunately all of life is about this...things changing without notice.
When this site was privately owned the owner pledged that there would never be a fee. Then money got involved.
Sad. I hope they don't take away the ability to create new foods, that would be really unfortunate. I can see where/why that would happen, but it would effectively make the database unusable. I have a $ number in mind that I would be willing to spend to keep *certain* features, but the current Premium membership cost is W A Y too high.
Just like I have a tap-out dollar amount on Netflix, and Netflix is inching up on that amount these days...
Also, why is cell phone service now $80 a month? I don't think that's gouging at all. *COUGH*
So true about Netflix. I decided this summer to cancel, because I really wasn't getting enough out of it to justify the escalating costs, especially when I already have Amazon Prime.
I thought I'd miss it, but I really haven't.
I imagine that Netflix is a lot less valuable inside the US than outside the US. Living outside the US, I pretty much don't have any $ amount too high for what I get from Netflix. It's 100x more valuable than my cable package.2 -
They should have sent an email notification. They probably didn't because the number of people they are actually impacting with this decision add up so such a small fraction.
How many users have actually stuck around long enough to have more than 2 years worth of data? Of those, how many actually care about historical data? Of those, how many are not already paying customers? Of the millions of people who have created accounts this might only impact a few thousand users.
I may be giving them too much credit but this is unlikely a way to sell more premium memberships. If that is the goal this is a truly terrible plan because it was not alerted/marketed and the resulting sales would be miniscule.7 -
They should have sent an email notification. They probably didn't because the number of people they are actually impacting with this decision add up so such a small fraction.
How many users have actually stuck around long enough to have more than 2 years worth of data? Of those, how many actually care about historical data? Of those, how many are not already paying customers? Of the millions of people who have created accounts this might only impact a few thousand users.
I may be giving them too much credit but this is unlikely a way to sell more premium memberships. If that is the goal this is a truly terrible plan because it was not alerted/marketed and the resulting sales would be miniscule.
Agreed. I think they just don't want to store the data anymore, and this gives them a good out, while still offering the option to those who really care about it.
It certainly is not a great feature to market premium, although I imagine it will show up on a features list at some point going forward. If they actually want to get more people to sign up for premium, they should focus on adding features that the current free version doesn't have, not simply taking away features from the free version and making them premium.
When any feature changes and goes away, the company has to weigh the benefit of the change, vs the potential loss of customers the change could cause. I think here it was probably a pretty easy cost/benefit analysis. The actual loss they will face of people using this site is very miniscule, and likely offset by the miniscule number who would migrate to premium because of this.4 -
collectingblues wrote: »
The PITA way to go around this on web is to go to Food, and then from your current diary page, scroll down and click “View Full Report”. You can then copy and paste based on a date range.
But you can’t do the full thing at one time, and the period of time you can do in one setting is inconsistent. At one point it was letting me do 4 months at a time, and then in the same evening, it took it to less than a week.
Aka: yet another reason why I won’t pay for premium.
It appears that it's tied to some number of entry lines. In my very beginning diary from 2011-2012, I could export 2 months worth of data. As my logging was more detailed and with more foods logged as individual ingredients vs. prepared meals, I could consistently only get 10 days worth of data on the Report before diary entries just wouldn't show up for some days. It took a couple of hours since I had to do it that way, but 9 years of data is now in my own spreadsheet file.
I've stuck to using MFP for logging since I had so much history data and all of my foods are in my recent foods making it quick to use, in spite of the issues with database upkeep and bugs and site issues. At this point though, I think it may be time to start looking at alternate tools.
I have to agree with @collectingblues the price of Premium is way out of line given the additional features and multiple issues with the MFP core functionality in general.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »poisonesse wrote: »Hmm, I never even knew I could look back that far, in all honesty. If I was paying for the site, then maybe I'd be a little bit upset, but for a free site? Too many users, not enough servers, and with no money coming in from all the free users, I think 2 years is a wonderful amount of time. But since the farthest back I've ever searched was a week or two, what do I know?
It's not a "free" site. It's a site where you and all the other users are the product that MFP delivers to advertisers. Some users felt that was a fair exchange for being able to store their logging data in an easily accessible format indefinitely. Some users might have chosen to make their bargain of exchanging their eyeballs and browsing data and whatever other data MFP is collecting about us with some other site if they had known MFP was going to choose at some point to unilaterally decide to delete the data they wanted to store.
This site is certainly not a charity operated by the benevolent Under Armour corporation. And as such, once you turn your data over to them, they do not keep it for you out of the goodness of their hearts, but out of it being beneficial for them to do so. Once you store it on their system, it becomes their data. Data storage is expensive, and they are likely storing petabytes of data of old log entries, of which only a tiny fraction ever gets accessed. I imagine they'll save quite a bit of money by wiping this data for most users, which is why they are doing it.
I cannot imagine this is about the amount of data. My entire 2011-2019 data amounted to 5 MB of data, and I keep a detailed log using the individual ingredients with more than 30 individual food entries on a typical day. That's basically a couple of photos. Even Facebook and Google allow you to export your own data (for free at that...), and that is WAY more data and more complex and rich data than the MFP diary.8 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »
The PITA way to go around this on web is to go to Food, and then from your current diary page, scroll down and click “View Full Report”. You can then copy and paste based on a date range.
But you can’t do the full thing at one time, and the period of time you can do in one setting is inconsistent. At one point it was letting me do 4 months at a time, and then in the same evening, it took it to less than a week.
Aka: yet another reason why I won’t pay for premium.
It appears that it's tied to some number of entry lines. In my very beginning diary from 2011-2012, I could export 2 months worth of data. As my logging was more detailed and with more foods logged as individual ingredients vs. prepared meals, I could consistently only get 10 days worth of data on the Report before diary entries just wouldn't show up for some days. It took a couple of hours since I had to do it that way, but 9 years of data is now in my own spreadsheet file.
I've stuck to using MFP for logging since I had so much history data and all of my foods are in my recent foods making it quick to use, in spite of the issues with database upkeep and bugs and site issues. At this point though, I think it may be time to start looking at alternate tools.
I have to agree with @collectingblues the price of Premium is way out of line given the additional features and multiple issues with the MFP core functionality in general.
Oh, that would make sense about the entry lines -- because yes, as years went on, I definitely became more precise about logging.2 -
OK, I just tried it, and I can't export anything. Here is the page that shows that Export Data is limited to Premium members.
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Is this something that people found beneficial? I understand wanting to have access to your old measurements and weigh ins, but I am unsure of how helpful knowing what you ate 3 years ago today is.
Yes! Although I've been keeping written journals for the past 7 and a half years so this change doesn't affect me, but I find going back to see what workouts I was doing and/or what I was eating helpful at times.
For example if I looked at a photo of myself and notice my arms are quite defined or maybe I looked a tad bit heavier, I can go back and see what workouts I was doing or what was going on at the time.
Also I revisit my old journals from time to time to get meal ideas.
Both doesn't happen often, but I like having access to that data at my fingertips.7 -
I haven't read all the responses 730 days seems generous in comparison.
Then you should have read the discussion.
I am most certainly not even discussing whether MFP has a right to offer whatever bargain they want MOVING FORWARD and after a formal and publicized change of terms announcement.
I am discussing and objecting to retroactively and unilateraly changing the terms of service in a way which causes damage to me and with no official notice. Compare this to change of terms announcements you may have received from PayPal or Google or Microsoft.
What is most galling is that they can easily avoid *any* damage by arranging for a one-time export of data they're removing access to.
Unless you want me to adopt the even more cynical outlook that all this is all just a ransom demand to extract a one month subscription while subjecting everyone to the hassles associated with starting and stopping such a subscription.
We should not have to jump through hoops to get our data that MFP has decided to discard.
Simple as that.
Right, I also object to no official notice. I just found out about it in an unrelated thread.
@Alex I think there should be an official email about this policy change and also ability to do a one time export of data like @PAV8888 mentioned above.
ETA: he laid it out well in this thread so feel free to just respond there: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10768872/november-1-2019-food-diary-change/p1?new=17 -
collectingblues wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »I'd like a chance to be able to export & save my data as well.
I know that other people who I have inspired to use the MFP tool have benefited from being able to see where I started from & what I ate & how I exercised to get to where I am now.
I'd also like to know if I became a premium member at a later date would the info be available again?
NB Just tried to export everything now & see that feature is locked except for premium members already :-(
Hmm, I'm not getting any indication that it is locked already. I do get a promo for Premium afterwards, but it's not clear that I need to upgrade first. Of course, I haven't received my data yet.
The PITA way to go around this on web is to go to Food, and then from your current diary page, scroll down and click “View Full Report”. You can then copy and paste based on a date range.
But you can’t do the full thing at one time, and the period of time you can do in one setting is inconsistent. At one point it was letting me do 4 months at a time, and then in the same evening, it took it to less than a week.
Aka: yet another reason why I won’t pay for premium.
It says I can view a year at a time, but when I tried to do all of this year as a test I only get from Sept 15 on >.<
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I did get a notification (on MFP, not an email) about this, and I've only been on the site since July so it won't impact me for over a year and a half. I wonder why the notification didn't go out to everyone.
As I said in the original thread, I would totally consider premium if they offered a one price forever deal. I do not like subscription services.3 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »You have obviously overlooked the clause in most every agreement you have made with a service provider stating the service provider can change the agreement at any time they feel whereas you are beholden to it. Examples abound of banks, phone service, cable service, utility services etc. arbitrarily altering the terms of service in for-pay situations—increasing fees without changing the service, reducing service without reducing fees, outright cancellation of various services without reducing fees...My cable bill goes up reliably by a few dollars at least twice a year and I am now paying literally 3x as much for cable as I was when I first procured the service from the cable provider while making no changes at all to my services.
I’m not saying that any of this is right in any way; it is, however, disgustingly commonplace so your level of ire over changes made to a free service is quizzical. Remember the scene in The Empire Strikes Back on Bespin when we learn that Lando has betrayed Han and Leia to Darth Vader? “Pray that I don’t alter the deal further”
You're ignoring the fact that I've repeatedly stated that it is both commonplace and normal for companies to change terms and conditions MOVING FORWARD. It is usually announced to their user base. New terms and conditions are emailed with the changes highlighted. Provisions are made for "seamless transition" especially when service level reductions are taking place. I invite you to point me to companies that have deliberately deleted user data without giving their users the option to download them (unless it was in the context of bankruptcy).
Cable companies have a certain reputation for acting the way you describe. So do garbage collection companies. And so does LogmeIn in the digital domain.
Companies that present themselves as leaders in the digital domain and as responsive to their customers do not change terms and conditions without announcement and do not trap their users' data in a manner that presents the odor of a ransom demand. Once we establish that it is ransom, whether the pay-out is $1, $9.99, or $7,927.82 (1 bitcoin) is not relevant!
Since I believe that UnderArmour is neither a smuggling operation, nor a company that operates in a manner similar to that of companies that have been rumored to have ties to criminal organizations, I do expect them to meet (and as a public company exceed) base business norms.
Aside from Facebook and MFP, I have almost no presence online. As such, I can't think of any website that might be able to hold my data hostage but I do know that Facebook does whatever the hell it wants with my data all day, every day. I also know that I have to pay my doctor for access to my medical records, I have to pay my insurance company for access to my insurance records, I have to pay the DMV for a copy of my driving record and I pretty much have to pay anyone else who might be holding data on me if I want access to it. I also know that my bank fees and the balance I have to maintain to have those fees waived have more than doubled since I started on with my current bank. Heck, my bank increases my mortgage payment every year when my property taxes increase. As well, my power, heat and water bills all increase regularly along with the aforementioned cable bill. No notice on any of these things, just "here's the new price for your new level of service, take it or leave, sucker."
I'm actually hard-pressed to come up with any company that doesn't just charge me more for the same or lesser service as time goes on. If such a thing existed, if there were a grandfather clause honoured anywhere, by anyone anymore I'd imagine it would be with my husband's bank, where he has had an account since he was a child, so over 40 years now. Let me tell you how much he does not enjoy the same services now for the same price he paid then--no unlimited transactions for $2/month in many, MANY years there. I gotta ask, who do you do business with that still provides the same services for the same price as when you first joined up??
I really think you are making a mountain out of a molehill and you have an opinion of the situation that is not reflected by my experiences in reality. It sucks but more money for less service is the way things are when it is commonplace to jump from service provider to service provider for the best deal rather than cultivating and being rewarded for a long term relationship with the single preferred provider. If you think it's only criminal organizations employing this business practice, you are not paying attention.6 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »You have obviously overlooked the clause in most every agreement you have made with a service provider stating the service provider can change the agreement at any time they feel whereas you are beholden to it. Examples abound of banks, phone service, cable service, utility services etc. arbitrarily altering the terms of service in for-pay situations—increasing fees without changing the service, reducing service without reducing fees, outright cancellation of various services without reducing fees...My cable bill goes up reliably by a few dollars at least twice a year and I am now paying literally 3x as much for cable as I was when I first procured the service from the cable provider while making no changes at all to my services.
I’m not saying that any of this is right in any way; it is, however, disgustingly commonplace so your level of ire over changes made to a free service is quizzical. Remember the scene in The Empire Strikes Back on Bespin when we learn that Lando has betrayed Han and Leia to Darth Vader? “Pray that I don’t alter the deal further”
You're ignoring the fact that I've repeatedly stated that it is both commonplace and normal for companies to change terms and conditions MOVING FORWARD. It is usually announced to their user base. New terms and conditions are emailed with the changes highlighted. Provisions are made for "seamless transition" especially when service level reductions are taking place. I invite you to point me to companies that have deliberately deleted user data without giving their users the option to download them (unless it was in the context of bankruptcy).
Cable companies have a certain reputation for acting the way you describe. So do garbage collection companies. And so does LogmeIn in the digital domain.
Companies that present themselves as leaders in the digital domain and as responsive to their customers do not change terms and conditions without announcement and do not trap their users' data in a manner that presents the odor of a ransom demand. Once we establish that it is ransom, whether the pay-out is $1, $9.99, or $7,927.82 (1 bitcoin) is not relevant!
Since I believe that UnderArmour is neither a smuggling operation, nor a company that operates in a manner similar to that of companies that have been rumored to have ties to criminal organizations, I do expect them to meet (and as a public company exceed) base business norms.
Aside from Facebook and MFP, I have almost no presence online. As such, I can't think of any website that might be able to hold my data hostage but I do know that Facebook does whatever the hell it wants with my data all day, every day. I also know that I have to pay my doctor for access to my medical records, I have to pay my insurance company for access to my insurance records, I have to pay the DMV for a copy of my driving record and I pretty much have to pay anyone else who might be holding data on me if I want access to it. I also know that my bank fees and the balance I have to maintain to have those fees waived have more than doubled since I started on with my current bank. Heck, my bank increases my mortgage payment every year when my property taxes increase. As well, my power, heat and water bills all increase regularly along with the aforementioned cable bill. No notice on any of these things, just "here's the new price for your new level of service, take it or leave, sucker."
I'm actually hard-pressed to come up with any company that doesn't just charge me more for the same or lesser service as time goes on. If such a thing existed, if there were a grandfather clause honoured anywhere, by anyone anymore I'd imagine it would be with my husband's bank, where he has had an account since he was a child, so over 40 years now. Let me tell you how much he does not enjoy the same services now for the same price he paid then--no unlimited transactions for $2/month in many, MANY years there. I gotta ask, who do you do business with that still provides the same services for the same price as when you first joined up??
I really think you are making a mountain out of a molehill and you have an opinion of the situation that is not reflected by my experiences in reality. It sucks but more money for less service is the way things are when it is commonplace to jump from service provider to service provider for the best deal rather than cultivating and being rewarded for a long term relationship with the single preferred provider. If you think it's only criminal organizations employing this business practice, you are not paying attention.
Well, actually, my no fees were grandfathered in by TD Bank, previously BankNorth, which, as Family Bank, acquired my local bank in 1999. I think I've had that account since the 80s.5 -
kshama2001 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »You have obviously overlooked the clause in most every agreement you have made with a service provider stating the service provider can change the agreement at any time they feel whereas you are beholden to it. Examples abound of banks, phone service, cable service, utility services etc. arbitrarily altering the terms of service in for-pay situations—increasing fees without changing the service, reducing service without reducing fees, outright cancellation of various services without reducing fees...My cable bill goes up reliably by a few dollars at least twice a year and I am now paying literally 3x as much for cable as I was when I first procured the service from the cable provider while making no changes at all to my services.
I’m not saying that any of this is right in any way; it is, however, disgustingly commonplace so your level of ire over changes made to a free service is quizzical. Remember the scene in The Empire Strikes Back on Bespin when we learn that Lando has betrayed Han and Leia to Darth Vader? “Pray that I don’t alter the deal further”
You're ignoring the fact that I've repeatedly stated that it is both commonplace and normal for companies to change terms and conditions MOVING FORWARD. It is usually announced to their user base. New terms and conditions are emailed with the changes highlighted. Provisions are made for "seamless transition" especially when service level reductions are taking place. I invite you to point me to companies that have deliberately deleted user data without giving their users the option to download them (unless it was in the context of bankruptcy).
Cable companies have a certain reputation for acting the way you describe. So do garbage collection companies. And so does LogmeIn in the digital domain.
Companies that present themselves as leaders in the digital domain and as responsive to their customers do not change terms and conditions without announcement and do not trap their users' data in a manner that presents the odor of a ransom demand. Once we establish that it is ransom, whether the pay-out is $1, $9.99, or $7,927.82 (1 bitcoin) is not relevant!
Since I believe that UnderArmour is neither a smuggling operation, nor a company that operates in a manner similar to that of companies that have been rumored to have ties to criminal organizations, I do expect them to meet (and as a public company exceed) base business norms.
Aside from Facebook and MFP, I have almost no presence online. As such, I can't think of any website that might be able to hold my data hostage but I do know that Facebook does whatever the hell it wants with my data all day, every day. I also know that I have to pay my doctor for access to my medical records, I have to pay my insurance company for access to my insurance records, I have to pay the DMV for a copy of my driving record and I pretty much have to pay anyone else who might be holding data on me if I want access to it. I also know that my bank fees and the balance I have to maintain to have those fees waived have more than doubled since I started on with my current bank. Heck, my bank increases my mortgage payment every year when my property taxes increase. As well, my power, heat and water bills all increase regularly along with the aforementioned cable bill. No notice on any of these things, just "here's the new price for your new level of service, take it or leave, sucker."
I'm actually hard-pressed to come up with any company that doesn't just charge me more for the same or lesser service as time goes on. If such a thing existed, if there were a grandfather clause honoured anywhere, by anyone anymore I'd imagine it would be with my husband's bank, where he has had an account since he was a child, so over 40 years now. Let me tell you how much he does not enjoy the same services now for the same price he paid then--no unlimited transactions for $2/month in many, MANY years there. I gotta ask, who do you do business with that still provides the same services for the same price as when you first joined up??
I really think you are making a mountain out of a molehill and you have an opinion of the situation that is not reflected by my experiences in reality. It sucks but more money for less service is the way things are when it is commonplace to jump from service provider to service provider for the best deal rather than cultivating and being rewarded for a long term relationship with the single preferred provider. If you think it's only criminal organizations employing this business practice, you are not paying attention.
Well, actually, my no fees were grandfathered in by TD Bank, previously BankNorth, which, as Family Bank, acquired my local bank in 1999. I think I've had that account since the 80s.
That is awesome! I’m kinda jelly. I banked with TD for years (well, Canada Trust which which was acquired by TD in the 90’s) and recently moved away from them due to their wretched service. Interestingly enough, it was their refusal to honour a cheque from a very large insurance company for a vehicle I had written off in an accident and for which I had literally 3x the balance of in my account that was the final straw. They could have given me the value of the cheque out of my existing moneys and held it until the cows came home and it cleared but, for some reason, they would not. They held not my information hostage but my cash money! LOL0
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