Plant based protein VS meat based protein

sarah1026652019 · October 2019

I was wondering if anyone knew if plant based protein is more efficient than meat based protein? And the advantages of plant based lifestyle VS the meat based lifestyle?
Does anyone have pro and cons of either or both from personal experience?

kshama2001 · October 2019

I'm not sure what you mean by "efficient."

Most plant based proteins will include a bunch of carbs, but, unless you have a medical reason to avoid carbs, that not a bad thing. For meat based protein, the calories from foods like chicken breast and low fat fish would be almost exclusively come from protein, so these foods are more efficient protein-delivery sources.

I lived for three years in vegetarian yoga communities and while this did not agree with me, I had lots of healthy and fit friends who were ethical vegans who thrived on a plant-based diet.

However, when I was in Costa Rico with no air conditioning, it did suit me to eat large amounts of tropical fruit, moderate amounts of rice, beans, and vegetables, and almost no meat-based protein. In 6 weeks, I dropped a size without even trying.

MikePTY · October 2019

Well in terms of "completeness", plant based protein is generally not as complete as meat based protein. All meat/fish/dairy proteins are considered complete, which means that they are made up of all 9 essential amino acids. Most plant based proteins are not complete, with some exceptions, such as soy and quinoa which are complete. Other plant based proteins do not have all 9 amino acids. This in and of itself is not a terrible thing, as long as you vary the diet enough to cover your bases. You don't need every protein to get complete protein, you just need sufficient intake per day. So if you mix and match 2 incomplete proteins that have different amino acids, you can get complete protein.

For example, vital wheat gluten, which is a common vegan protein source, only has 8 of 9 amino acids, so it is technically not complete. It is low on lysine, which is found in some other plant based proteins, such as lentils. So if you have lentils and wheat gluten in the same day, you are getting complete protein. As long as you don't get your plant based protein predominately from a single incomplete source, issues with completeness shouldn't be too big a deal.

However from a completeness perspective, animal protein would be considered more "efficient", as every source is complete.

anubis609 · October 2019

Not sure what your definition of efficiency is, but the bioavailability of protein is going to be greater with meat based sources, since you get all the essential amino acids from meat. With plants you would need to eat a wider variety just to meet the required essential aminos. Regardless of the source, you want to aim for an adequate amount each day, not just to meet the bare minimum, but to protect against loss of lean body mass.

sarah1026652019 · October 2019

Sorry I should have expanded the efficiency part. As in training, and health such as blood clarity inflammation of the blood vessels etc

I eat plant based Some days exclusively because my husband is Indian and a lot of the food is plant based we cook.
And on those days I find I have more energy I can push myself a lot harder and I feel more “efficient” just in every part of the day.

sarah1026652019 · October 2019

So I was just wondering others thoughts opinions etc on the two. It’s nice to see what other people training experience

ElizabethKalmbach · October 2019

sarah1026652019 wrote: »

I eat plant based Some days exclusively because my husband is Indian and a lot of the food is plant based we cook.
And on those days I find I have more energy I can push myself a lot harder and I feel more “efficient” just in every part of the day.

I suspect you're feeling the effects of the carbs that come prepackaged with the plant based proteins. The energy in carbs is a bit more accessible than energy produced by other food sources.

[anecdote] My sister is vegan sometimes, whereas I get most of my protein from meat/animal sources. She can easily keep up with me when it comes to endurance training, but when it comes to heavy lifting I tend to progress much more quickly. Our builds show it, too. At 18% body fat, she's down near 118 lbs. At 18% body fat, I weigh about 145. [/anecdote]

I imagine with more effort (both mental and physical) she could advance more with heavy lifting, but that's not where her interests and ethics lead her. I'm literally two different kinds of anemic and shan't be giving up my animal proteins if I want to stay healthy. Sorry, cows and chickens.

Vune · October 2019

anubis609 wrote: »

Not sure what your definition of efficiency is, but the bioavailability of protein is going to be greater with meat based sources, since you get all the essential amino acids from meat. With plants you would need to eat a wider variety just to meet the required essential aminos. Regardless of the source, you want to aim for an adequate amount each day, not just to meet the bare minimum, but to protect against loss of lean body mass.

I'm curious to hear from the person who disagreed with this. My dialysis dietitian switched me from veggie back to omnivore back in the day precisely because of the increased bioavailability of protein from meat sources. Eggs, in particular, were high on her list of best bioavailability. Before my kidneys failed, I was vegetarian because plant sources were easier on kidneys prone to spilling protein (I'm missing connective tissue in my glomeruli, as well as other places). This still appears to be protocol according to the community dealing with my condition. Interested in seeing reports showing new data.

MikePTY · October 2019

sarah1026652019 wrote: »

Sorry I should have expanded the efficiency part. As in training, and health such as blood clarity inflammation of the blood vessels etc

I eat plant based Some days exclusively because my husband is Indian and a lot of the food is plant based we cook.
And on those days I find I have more energy I can push myself a lot harder and I feel more “efficient” just in every part of the day.

If it's more energy than it's probably a carbs thing. So you take in more carbs on days you eat vegetarian? Protein will hp with muscle repair and recovery, but it's not the main driver of energy levels.

Ancodoetally, I feel better when I have several servings of fruits and vegatables in a day than when I don't. I don't know if thats from more carbs, from more vitamins and minerals and potassium, or just a mental placebo thing.

AnnPT77 · October 2019

Speaking as a long term vegetarian, I like the carb/energy hypothesis others are suggesting, but wouldn't discount the idea that high levels of micronutrients (not just vitamins and minerals, but also various antioxidants and other beneficial phytochemicals) might contribute some positive effect on either mood or subjective energy level. Clearly, "lots of veggies/fruits" is a thing that carnivores can do, too, but I suspect it's more natural/common in a plant-based diet.

Pure speculation, though.

sarah1026652019 · October 2019

I brought this up to my husband and I told him the days we eat veggie meals I feel like I have more energy I work out harder I literally exceed my goals. And I can tell the difference when we eat chicken fish pro beef etc.
He laughed and said at work today he actually watched a Netflix documentary called “Game Changers” and it talked about this same thing in elite athletes NFL, strongest man, UFC, and also high demand physical jobs such as firefighting.

I think when I get the time maybe this weekend I will try and watch it. I guess they talk scientifically about the plant and meat outcome long term and short term in a body and blood circulation. With test done on the athletes.

I’m interested to see where I stand. Because I LOVE meat I am born and raised In Colorado! We love beef and any meat!!
But he said in the documentary that it mentioned even one serving of eggs chicken or lean protein clouded the fat in the blood.
Idk I am very interested to watch this and learn a little more

He also said there was a “strongest man” that is vegetarian on there and he said he wanted to be strong as an ox, and someone laughed and said while u eat ur salad? And he replied well what do ox eat?
Hmmm food for thought
I am going to go look deeper into this!!!
Thanks for all the great views and education!!!!

kimny72 · October 2019

@sarah1026652019 Try not to put too much faith in getting health information from a documentary. Their entire purpose is to entertain you and get you worked up - they have no responsibility to give you the complete picture or even tell you the truth. Many cherry-pick studies that support their point while failing to mention all the studies that conflict.

Humans have been omnivores for forever, so it is doubtful that eating vegetarian is necessary to be healthy. That's not to say some individuals might not feel better avoiding animal products, so maybe that's the case for you. But just as I've seen people say they felt so much better after going vegetarian/vegan, I've see plenty of former vegetarians say how much better they felt after adding animal protein back into their diet. There is no "one true way", humans have thrived all over the planet for thousands of years, in all different climates, lifestyles, and with diverse diets.

jenny3073 · October 2019

Personally, meat/animal based works for me. I was doing low carb for awhile, lots of salads, some minimal veggies (can't stand most of them), protein bars (ugh), still had some meat but not a lot and occasional fish. I was not losing anything and thought, as a morbidly obese person, that I should have dropped some weight especially considering I ended my 40 year addiction with soda.

I stumbled upon some info on carnivore (fatty meat (mostly beef), butter, eggs, fatty fish, cheese, minimal dairy) way of eating and decided to try it, to experiment. 4 weeks in, I feel FABULOUS, and dropped 23 lbs. Most BMR calculators had me at over 2k cals a day to lose, wasn't losing at all trying that, was hungry all the time and constantly thinking about food and snacking between meals... pretty much how I've been all my life. I got a scale that connects to an app with body composition info. The app showed my BMR was around 1200 cals a day due to slow metabolism. Day 1 on carnivore and I had no hunger, could go 10-12 hours between meals and have been keeping around 1200-1600 cals per day (two meals a day, occasional snacks) and the lbs. are falling off. I attribute most of it to less food (I'm very satiated), and whole food. I haven't had any processed junk, save for the occasional beef stick, and more importantly, I'm not craving any of the junk as I did before.

I haven't really talked about this outside of a few subreddits, I know many do not agree with this way of eating and I am not one to try to advise anyone to eat this way as everybody is different and thrive in very different ways. Although this was something I personally wanted to try to help me get away from obesity, many non-overweight people follow this and report relief from inflammation, gut issues, and auto immune disorders that some plants might cause in some people. I don't have anything extreme in that area, but I've had much less stomach problems, fat loss, lean muscle mass increase (no exercise yet), more energy, and I rarely think about food anymore. It no longer rules my life! I am type 2 diabetic, no longer on medication and my last blood test looked great. The excess protein turns to glucose and seems to be keeping my blood sugar steady. I went in with the idea of only 4 weeks because it sounded so extreme but I can't deny how I feel, and that this just feels right for me. I am sure at some point I will occasionally enjoy a nice salad, maybe a treat or two here and there, but this is how things are now and I'm doing very well.

With all that said, this is my personal choice and not advocating one way or the other, just sharing my experience so far.

cwolfman13 · October 2019

sarah1026652019 wrote: »

Sorry I should have expanded the efficiency part. As in training, and health such as blood clarity inflammation of the blood vessels etc

I eat plant based Some days exclusively because my husband is Indian and a lot of the food is plant based we cook.
And on those days I find I have more energy I can push myself a lot harder and I feel more “efficient” just in every part of the day.

This is most likely due to the fact that most plant based proteins are also considerably higher in carbohydrates than meat, poultry, fish, pork, etc. Eating a diet higher in carbs typically provides for greater energy.

cwolfman13 · October 2019

sarah1026652019 wrote: »

I brought this up to my husband and I told him the days we eat veggie meals I feel like I have more energy I work out harder I literally exceed my goals. And I can tell the difference when we eat chicken fish pro beef etc.
He laughed and said at work today he actually watched a Netflix documentary called “Game Changers” and it talked about this same thing in elite athletes NFL, strongest man, UFC, and also high demand physical jobs such as firefighting.

I think when I get the time maybe this weekend I will try and watch it. I guess they talk scientifically about the plant and meat outcome long term and short term in a body and blood circulation. With test done on the athletes.

I’m interested to see where I stand. Because I LOVE meat I am born and raised In Colorado! We love beef and any meat!!
But he said in the documentary that it mentioned even one serving of eggs chicken or lean protein clouded the fat in the blood.
Idk I am very interested to watch this and learn a little more

He also said there was a “strongest man” that is vegetarian on there and he said he wanted to be strong as an ox, and someone laughed and said while u eat ur salad? And he replied well what do ox eat?
Hmmm food for thought
I am going to go look deeper into this!!!
Thanks for all the great views and education!!!!

Be careful with "documentaries" such as this. They are typically one sided and cherry pick data to meet their agenda.

Vegetarians and vegans eat diets very high in carbohydrates...athletes in general eat diets high in carbohydrates...because carbohydrates boost performance. It doesn't really have anything to do with plant based or meat based protein...it's the carbohydrates. As has been stated previously, most plant based proteins are incomplete which means you would have to vary your sources to make a complete protein.

AnnPT77 · October 2019

sarah1026652019 wrote: »

I brought this up to my husband and I told him the days we eat veggie meals I feel like I have more energy I work out harder I literally exceed my goals. And I can tell the difference when we eat chicken fish pro beef etc.
He laughed and said at work today he actually watched a Netflix documentary called “Game Changers” and it talked about this same thing in elite athletes NFL, strongest man, UFC, and also high demand physical jobs such as firefighting.

I think when I get the time maybe this weekend I will try and watch it. I guess they talk scientifically about the plant and meat outcome long term and short term in a body and blood circulation. With test done on the athletes.

I’m interested to see where I stand. Because I LOVE meat I am born and raised In Colorado! We love beef and any meat!!
But he said in the documentary that it mentioned even one serving of eggs chicken or lean protein clouded the fat in the blood.
Idk I am very interested to watch this and learn a little more

He also said there was a “strongest man” that is vegetarian on there and he said he wanted to be strong as an ox, and someone laughed and said while u eat ur salad? And he replied well what do ox eat?
Hmmm food for thought
I am going to go look deeper into this!!!
Thanks for all the great views and education!!!!

Think critically about any claim suggesting athletes perform better on fully plant-based diets. High level athletes have professional trainers (including dietitians) who keep up with all the sound scientific research, and will do nearly anything to squeeze out a 0.05% advantage. If a fully plant-based diet were actually proven to be more effective, every high level athlete would be fully plant-based . . . or we have to assume most of them are kinda stupid, or not paying attention.

Can athletes perform well on a fully plant based diet? I'm sure they can, because some do. Is it persuasively, objectively proven to be a better diet on which to perform? Doesn't seem likely, outside of advocacy propaganda "documentaries".

And I say that as a long term (45+ year) vegetarian who has (in the past) trained and competed athletically.

psuLemon · October 2019

AnnPT77 wrote: »

sarah1026652019 wrote: »

I brought this up to my husband and I told him the days we eat veggie meals I feel like I have more energy I work out harder I literally exceed my goals. And I can tell the difference when we eat chicken fish pro beef etc.
He laughed and said at work today he actually watched a Netflix documentary called “Game Changers” and it talked about this same thing in elite athletes NFL, strongest man, UFC, and also high demand physical jobs such as firefighting.

I think when I get the time maybe this weekend I will try and watch it. I guess they talk scientifically about the plant and meat outcome long term and short term in a body and blood circulation. With test done on the athletes.

I’m interested to see where I stand. Because I LOVE meat I am born and raised In Colorado! We love beef and any meat!!
But he said in the documentary that it mentioned even one serving of eggs chicken or lean protein clouded the fat in the blood.
Idk I am very interested to watch this and learn a little more

He also said there was a “strongest man” that is vegetarian on there and he said he wanted to be strong as an ox, and someone laughed and said while u eat ur salad? And he replied well what do ox eat?
Hmmm food for thought
I am going to go look deeper into this!!!
Thanks for all the great views and education!!!!

Think critically about any claim suggesting athletes perform better on fully plant-based diets. High level athletes have professional trainers (including dietitians) who keep up with all the sound scientific research, and will do nearly anything to squeeze out a 0.05% advantage. If a fully plant-based diet were actually proven to be more effective, every high level athlete would be fully plant-based . . . or we have to assume most of them are kinda stupid, or not paying attention.

Can athletes perform well on a fully plant based diet? I'm sure they can, because some do. Is it persuasively, objectively proven to be a better diet on which to perform? Doesn't seem likely, outside of advocacy propaganda "documentaries".

And I say that as a long term (45+ year) vegetarian who has (in the past) trained and competed athletically.

This cannot be emphasized enough. Most athletes are going to have a fairly varied diet, and most with good amounts of meat. Don't let the exception drive the conversation. There is a reason most bodybuilders and powerlifters eat meat. From a muscle protein synthesis standpoint, meat > plants.

Marisela170 · October 2019

Honestly I just find that eating mostly a plant based diet is a lot cheaper.

Sorenki · October 2019

i would say - don’t seek that kind of info on a forum of regular people. we mostly don’t know what the hell were talking about. i just watched game changers and if i think about the sources and potential motivations behind the research, i tend to think it’s at least a legit theory. it’s pro-vegan. protein is protein. schwarzenegger, jackie chan, james cameron. kinda heavy hitters. worth watching. especially the blood and the erection tests!

biggiwig4483 · October 2019

Sorenki wrote: »

i would say - don’t seek that kind of info on a forum of regular people. we mostly don’t know what the hell were talking about. i just watched game changers and if i think about the sources and potential motivations behind the research, i tend to think it’s at least a legit theory. it’s pro-vegan. protein is protein. schwarzenegger, jackie chan, james cameron. kinda heavy hitters. worth watching. especially the blood and the erection tests!

I watched that too. I was shocked about the blood samples. The fat of the meat eaters was so cloudy. Apparently the blood is not floating so well.
I lnow 2 meat eaters who had a stroke and a heart attack. Just got me thinking s lot.

lynn_glenmont · October 2019

psuLemon wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

sarah1026652019 wrote: »

I brought this up to my husband and I told him the days we eat veggie meals I feel like I have more energy I work out harder I literally exceed my goals. And I can tell the difference when we eat chicken fish pro beef etc.
He laughed and said at work today he actually watched a Netflix documentary called “Game Changers” and it talked about this same thing in elite athletes NFL, strongest man, UFC, and also high demand physical jobs such as firefighting.

I think when I get the time maybe this weekend I will try and watch it. I guess they talk scientifically about the plant and meat outcome long term and short term in a body and blood circulation. With test done on the athletes.

I’m interested to see where I stand. Because I LOVE meat I am born and raised In Colorado! We love beef and any meat!!
But he said in the documentary that it mentioned even one serving of eggs chicken or lean protein clouded the fat in the blood.
Idk I am very interested to watch this and learn a little more

He also said there was a “strongest man” that is vegetarian on there and he said he wanted to be strong as an ox, and someone laughed and said while u eat ur salad? And he replied well what do ox eat?
Hmmm food for thought
I am going to go look deeper into this!!!
Thanks for all the great views and education!!!!

Think critically about any claim suggesting athletes perform better on fully plant-based diets. High level athletes have professional trainers (including dietitians) who keep up with all the sound scientific research, and will do nearly anything to squeeze out a 0.05% advantage. If a fully plant-based diet were actually proven to be more effective, every high level athlete would be fully plant-based . . . or we have to assume most of them are kinda stupid, or not paying attention.

Can athletes perform well on a fully plant based diet? I'm sure they can, because some do. Is it persuasively, objectively proven to be a better diet on which to perform? Doesn't seem likely, outside of advocacy propaganda "documentaries".

And I say that as a long term (45+ year) vegetarian who has (in the past) trained and competed athletically.

This cannot be emphasized enough. Most athletes are going to have a fairly varied diet, and most with good amounts of meat. Don't let the exception drive the conversation. There is a reason most bodybuilders and powerlifters eat meat. From a muscle protein synthesis standpoint, meat > plants.

Why wouldn't the reason that most bodybuilders and powerlifters eat meat be the same reason that most of the people in the societies they live in eat meat? (Tradition/custom/expectation that a meal is built around meat, unexamined assumptions about the need for animal protein for good health, etc.) Given the many completely insupportable arguments about nutrition and even exercise that I have heard from bodybuilders and lifters, I'm not inclined to accept that particular appeal to authority. There's a reason the term broscience came into being.

Plant based protein VS meat based protein

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