Let's talk about ghosting.
Replies
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Funny thing is @Just_Mel_ to me, you look like someone who has likely to have ghosted many a dudes.
🤔 how does a ghoster look?? Is there a template online or something?
I'd like to know exactly what's meant by ghosting before I answer you. I'm suspecting a different definition by the postings. I think it's when anyone(with reasonable capacity) knowingly doesn't reply to someone, period.
Does the look change by definition??
You got me bro. I'll put some of my toxin in a jar for you as a trophy. I would not like to speak to you anymore, sir. Enjoy the day.
Fair enough- good day sir
Congratulations. I think you may have just acquired some man-tears in a jar.
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
You would consider that text satisfactory and would consider that to be sufficient closure? I am admittedly assuming that those that find closure important would want something more meaningful or intimate than such a text. I am assuming that when one says they would find it immature for a person to not give closure they mean more than a text message saying "i'm leaving, bye"
Jobs aren't a good analogy unless in this hypothetical relationship one person was paying the other...the dynamic isn't the same.1 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
You would consider that text satisfactory and would consider that to be sufficient closure? I am admittedly assuming that those that find closure important would want something more meaningful or intimate than such a text.
Jobs aren't a good analogy unless in this hypothetical relationship one person was paying the other...the dynamic isn't the same.
Almost anything is better than ghosting, and honestly it is just common decency to me. Yes I'd be fine with a text like that. I wouldn't worry the person had an accident or was dead. Yes that is where my mind would go first.5 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
You would consider that text satisfactory and would consider that to be sufficient closure? I am admittedly assuming that those that find closure important would want something more meaningful or intimate than such a text.
Jobs aren't a good analogy unless in this hypothetical relationship one person was paying the other...the dynamic isn't the same.
Almost anything is better than ghosting, and honestly it is just common decency to me. Yes I'd be fine with a text like that. I wouldn't worry the person had an accident or was dead. Yes that is where my mind would go first.
Yep. I legit texted him the other night asking if he was ok. He responded. So at least I knew he was alive, I left him alone after that. Then the next day he ghosted in the middle of the day after we'd already been talking. I worry about people, not going to change that about myself.4 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »tinkerhellraiser wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »To turn the question around if you truly decide that you don't care about someone anymore then why would you take the time to try to explain that to them in a difficult and awkward conversation?
well if u mean a relationship ending then because youre not a sociopath and not loving someone anymore dont mean u dont respect they got feelings like a human
Yes exactly. It is very cruel to ghost someone you were previously in regular contact with or dating. I feel a simple explanation is better. I would much rather that than worry something happened to them, etc.
Cruelty is relative. It is cruel to subject someone to something that pains them. Some people are pained by not having closure, some people are pained by having to deal with conflict and attempt closure. You feel that not getting closure is cruel because you are personally somoene who wants closure...but that doesn't make it some objective truth that applies to all people in all cases.
If it is cruel to not provide someone closure if they want it then isn't it equally cruel to demand that someone provide closure when they are uncomfortable doing so?
No it is not the same. If people can’t be mature adults and communicate then they shouldn't be dating. Ghosting is poor manners.
And if people are so entitled as to feel that someone who does not want to be involved with them is morally obligated to explain to them exactly why that is they shouldn't be dating. (I think that would be a jerk thing to say by the way I'm just flipping it so you can see it is a rather jerk thing to say in general). Its overgeneralized. Its a perspective thing, its subjective. I do believe that a person who dates someone and then decides to leave a relationship without bothering to tell the person they are dating to be immature in certain circumstances sure...but not all. I just also believe that a person who dates someone and gets "ghosted" feels that they are in some way entitled to an explanation to be rather immature as well in certain circumstances as well...but not all. I'm not going to declare it to be immature in general and in a one sided dialogue where only one side is represented I think its pretty easy to be judgmental.4 -
OooooOOOOOOooooooo
<waves arms, glides through walls, is haunting>7 -
tcunbeliever wrote: »I don't feel like anyone is entitled to my time and energy in the first place. So, if I no longer want them in my life, I don't owe them an explanation, nor am I required to justify not having them in my life.
This is usually an issue with people who don't respect boundaries or human rights and generally follows a confrontation where I clearly communicate that they have done something I deem not acceptable and they refuse to acknowledge or accept any responsibility for their behavior. Those kinds of people are not invited to be a part of my universe and they aren't worth the trouble of trying to explain why they aren't invited because they will deliberately never understand anyway. Some people simply don't want to take NO for an answer, regardless of the question.
If I don't feel like I can trust you, or I don't feel safe around you, then I'm not going to interact with you. The End.
I have been ghosted by people for what I'm sure are a variety of reasons. Generally, they just stay gone, but sometimes they like to reappear after 6 months or so and expect an instant return to the previous level of closeness...it totally weirds me out...like I'm a doll they put in storage and now they found me in the attic and want to play again...I usually just stay away from them...the rare occasions where I have genuinely attempted to reconnect have all ended in being ghosted again, so it's just a waste of time.
People are such wonderfully complicated and deranged creatures.
*like I'm a doll they put in storage and now they found me in the attic and want to play again...*
what a perfect analogy!1 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
You would consider that text satisfactory and would consider that to be sufficient closure? I am admittedly assuming that those that find closure important would want something more meaningful or intimate than such a text.
Jobs aren't a good analogy unless in this hypothetical relationship one person was paying the other...the dynamic isn't the same.
Almost anything is better than ghosting, and honestly it is just common decency to me. Yes I'd be fine with a text like that. I wouldn't worry the person had an accident or was dead. Yes that is where my mind would go first.
Well okay I agree that is different, but in the context of the OP's original post the idea is that there is an expectation that an explanation be given...not just a confirmation of life.2 -
I think people too often take how they feel themselves about relationships and just assumes everyone else feels exactly the same way. No, not everyone wants or seeks closure. If absolutely everyone needed closure then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Some people do in fact prefer to just go separate ways. If you are saying one type of person is the "right" kind of person I'd like some explanation objectively as to why it is "right" for one person to demand closure of another who doesn't want closure and "wrong" for another person who doesn't want closure to not provide closure.
What I am hearing is people who don't want closure and avoid conflict are immature where as people who seek closure and feel entitled to have others provide them explanations even if that person doesn't want to are mature. I'm just asking why is that true, objectively?
There is a difference between saying "I would find a person doing that to be immature" and "People who do X are immature"1 -
CanesGalactica wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
... no. If you can't be mature enough to overcome your "awkwardness" and at least have the decency to say "I am no longer interested in pursuing this relationship, blah blah blah" then you don't deserve to nor SHOULD you be dating people. It might be awkward, but for *kitten*'s sake, be an adult and just own it. Most people saying they want "closure" aren't looking into an in depth psychoanalytic breakdown of the relationship. They just want to know it's done, over and that they can move on without worrying about that other person or something they might have done that could have mitigated the relationship.
It's not that complicated.
So why couldn't I say "It might be difficult when someone leaves you without explanation but for *kitten's* sake, be an adult and just own it". I mean that sounds rather offensive doesn't it? I think people just aren't hearing themselves. In a relationship both people are people, they both have feelings and justifications for their actions and most likely a group of friends who are supporting them. Relationships end, people deal with it in different ways. Arguing that this way is better than that way really doesn't serve a purpose. If it is about respect then people should be considerate of eachothers feelings of course but there are circumstances in which people's feelings about what they want are diametrically opposed and in that case there is no clean solution. Sure someone who wants closure should ideally be respected but then again someone who just wants out and doesn't want to have to deal with it should honestly be respected too...they are both people.
Its just not that simple as "this person good, that person bad"
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
Actually your job analogy got me thinking, because I've been in (and I think most people have been in) a situation job related that would resonate with someone who works in HR that I think might be a possible analogy (at least to how I view it).
Lets say I apply for a job, I get an interview, the interview goes really well....I get a second interview, I feel that goes really well too. And then.....and then I don't hear back. I call, leave a message...they don't call back. I wait. I hear nothing. I'm flustered, not sure what is going on, frustrated. I really want to know what happened. If they decided not to pick me I want to know why, I feel like I understand if they don't want me but I at least want to know why so I can think about it in future interviews. But at no point do I feel entitled to an explanation. Sure, I want an explanation...but I don't think they owe me one. And I don't think the buisness is immature to not supply me with a detailed explanation as to why they didn't hire me.
Now as someone in HR do you think applicants are entitled to explanations as to why they were not chosen from the pool of candidates? I might agree with you, as with the proof of life example, that they probably should inform the candidate they were not selected...but I mean are they entitled to an actual explanation as to why?3 -
tinkerhellraiser wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
Actually your job analogy got me thinking, because I've been in (and I think most people have been in) a situation job related that would resonate with someone who works in HR that I think might be a possible analogy (at least to how I view it).
Lets say I apply for a job, I get an interview, the interview goes really well....I get a second interview, I feel that goes really well too. And then.....and then I don't hear back. I call, leave a message...they don't call back. I wait. I hear nothing. I'm flustered, not sure what is going on, frustrated. I really want to know what happened. If they decided not to pick me I want to know why, I feel like I understand if they don't want me but I at least want to know why so I can think about it in future interviews. But at no point do I feel entitled to an explanation. Sure, I want an explanation...but I don't think they owe me one. And I don't think the buisness is immature to not supply me with a detailed explanation as to why they didn't hire me.
Now as someone in HR do you think applicants are entitled to explanations as to why they were not chosen from the pool of candidates? I might agree with you, as with the proof of life example, that they probably should inform the candidate they were not selected...but I mean are they entitled to an actual explanation as to why?
none of your arguments make sense
In general people who have been left at the altar are going to have a lot of sympathy for someone being ghosted. People who have been stalked are going to have a lot of sympathy for people who distance themselves from a relationship and try to cut ties. And quite often people in internet forums are going to side with the poster and pile on to the person who isn't in the conversation.
All I am saying is there are two sides to every relationship and its rarely simple enough to diagnose who is being immature and who isn't from an armchair...its just easy to do so. To anyone who is hurt from the way a relationship ends I do have sympathy for, but I don't see the point into ripping into the other person who isn't even around.
I'm sorry for hurt feelings, I sympathize with not knowing what happened. I assume that anyone who "ghosts" no longer wants to be in a relationship but since we don't know why that is I withhold any sort of judgement. Thats all. Is that really that hard to understand?4 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »CanesGalactica wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
... no. If you can't be mature enough to overcome your "awkwardness" and at least have the decency to say "I am no longer interested in pursuing this relationship, blah blah blah" then you don't deserve to nor SHOULD you be dating people. It might be awkward, but for *kitten*'s sake, be an adult and just own it. Most people saying they want "closure" aren't looking into an in depth psychoanalytic breakdown of the relationship. They just want to know it's done, over and that they can move on without worrying about that other person or something they might have done that could have mitigated the relationship.
It's not that complicated.
So why couldn't I say "It might be difficult when someone leaves you without explanation but for *kitten's* sake, be an adult and just own it". I mean that sounds rather offensive doesn't it? I think people just aren't hearing themselves. In a relationship both people are people, they both have feelings and justifications for their actions and most likely a group of friends who are supporting them. Relationships end, people deal with it in different ways. Arguing that this way is better than that way really doesn't serve a purpose. If it is about respect then people should be considerate of eachothers feelings of course but there are circumstances in which people's feelings about what they want are diametrically opposed and in that case there is no clean solution. Sure someone who wants closure should ideally be respected but then again someone who just wants out and doesn't want to have to deal with it should honestly be respected too...they are both people.
Its just not that simple as "this person good, that person bad"
a.) Not once have I ever mentioned "this person good, that person bad" as I don't believe in black and white analogies.
b.) You can say what you like, but the majority of people (not all, mind you), prefer closure, even if it is a simple text stating a lack of interest or "never contact me again". It might not satisfy the in depth criteria some require, but it is a hell of a lot nicer, more mature and succinct than ghosting a person and dropping off the face of the earth.
c.) I've never once stated (in this thread) that the other party isn't a person. But seriously, if you aren't going to have the common decency to end your relationships (whatever they be) with some sort of explanation (even a terse, short one) then you shouldn't be in those relationships in the first place as it shows a complete lack of respect and compassion toward the other person. The exceptions have already been mentioned: abusive people are exempt from this because the goal if a person becomes involved with them is to get as far away safely as possible and that often means leaving little or no trace to be followed. I might also concede an exception for very mentally unwell or unstable people because then again, they are a danger to their respective partners. But most people don't fit in those two criteria and don't deserve to just be randomly discarded like someone's garbage simply because interest was lost. It's just callous.
d.) Nope. I don't find telling a person to be an adult and own it to be offensive, nor would I find it offensive if someone said it to me. Sometimes harsh words must be shared in order for a person to grow. If everyone kowtows to you and never is straight about where things stand, how do you expect to grow or learn?6 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »tinkerhellraiser wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
Actually your job analogy got me thinking, because I've been in (and I think most people have been in) a situation job related that would resonate with someone who works in HR that I think might be a possible analogy (at least to how I view it).
Lets say I apply for a job, I get an interview, the interview goes really well....I get a second interview, I feel that goes really well too. And then.....and then I don't hear back. I call, leave a message...they don't call back. I wait. I hear nothing. I'm flustered, not sure what is going on, frustrated. I really want to know what happened. If they decided not to pick me I want to know why, I feel like I understand if they don't want me but I at least want to know why so I can think about it in future interviews. But at no point do I feel entitled to an explanation. Sure, I want an explanation...but I don't think they owe me one. And I don't think the buisness is immature to not supply me with a detailed explanation as to why they didn't hire me.
Now as someone in HR do you think applicants are entitled to explanations as to why they were not chosen from the pool of candidates? I might agree with you, as with the proof of life example, that they probably should inform the candidate they were not selected...but I mean are they entitled to an actual explanation as to why?
none of your arguments make sense
In general people who have been left at the altar are going to have a lot of sympathy for someone being ghosted. People who have been stalked are going to have a lot of sympathy for people who distance themselves from a relationship and try to cut ties. And quite often people in internet forums are going to side with the poster and pile on to the person who isn't in the conversation.
All I am saying is there are two sides to every relationship and its rarely simple enough to diagnose who is being immature and who isn't from an armchair...its just easy to do so. To anyone who is hurt from the way a relationship ends I do have sympathy for, but I don't see the point into ripping into the other person who isn't even around.
I'm sorry for hurt feelings, I sympathize with not knowing what happened. I assume that anyone who "ghosts" no longer wants to be in a relationship but since we don't know why that is I withhold any sort of judgement. Thats all. Is that really that hard to understand?
So how many times have you ghosted someone? Just curious.7 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »tinkerhellraiser wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
Actually your job analogy got me thinking, because I've been in (and I think most people have been in) a situation job related that would resonate with someone who works in HR that I think might be a possible analogy (at least to how I view it).
Lets say I apply for a job, I get an interview, the interview goes really well....I get a second interview, I feel that goes really well too. And then.....and then I don't hear back. I call, leave a message...they don't call back. I wait. I hear nothing. I'm flustered, not sure what is going on, frustrated. I really want to know what happened. If they decided not to pick me I want to know why, I feel like I understand if they don't want me but I at least want to know why so I can think about it in future interviews. But at no point do I feel entitled to an explanation. Sure, I want an explanation...but I don't think they owe me one. And I don't think the buisness is immature to not supply me with a detailed explanation as to why they didn't hire me.
Now as someone in HR do you think applicants are entitled to explanations as to why they were not chosen from the pool of candidates? I might agree with you, as with the proof of life example, that they probably should inform the candidate they were not selected...but I mean are they entitled to an actual explanation as to why?
none of your arguments make sense
In general people who have been left at the altar are going to have a lot of sympathy for someone being ghosted. People who have been stalked are going to have a lot of sympathy for people who distance themselves from a relationship and try to cut ties. And quite often people in internet forums are going to side with the poster and pile on to the person who isn't in the conversation.
All I am saying is there are two sides to every relationship and its rarely simple enough to diagnose who is being immature and who isn't from an armchair...its just easy to do so. To anyone who is hurt from the way a relationship ends I do have sympathy for, but I don't see the point into ripping into the other person who isn't even around.
I'm sorry for hurt feelings, I sympathize with not knowing what happened. I assume that anyone who "ghosts" no longer wants to be in a relationship but since we don't know why that is I withhold any sort of judgement. Thats all. Is that really that hard to understand?
So how many times have you ghosted someone? Just curious.
Only fair I suppose to ask, no I haven't personally "ghosted" anyone. I don't honestly feel that has relevance to anyone else though, each example is situational and personal.
I don't know the circumstances of the ending of the relationship you are describing so I can't really comment. Only thing I can, and have, said is that anyone who "ghosts" someone no longer wants to be in a relationship with that person and the best anyone can do in those circumstances is come to terms with it and move on. Demanding closure won't get anywhere and asking why isn't likely going to lead towards coming to terms. Its *kitten*, no doubt.
2 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »tinkerhellraiser wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
Actually your job analogy got me thinking, because I've been in (and I think most people have been in) a situation job related that would resonate with someone who works in HR that I think might be a possible analogy (at least to how I view it).
Lets say I apply for a job, I get an interview, the interview goes really well....I get a second interview, I feel that goes really well too. And then.....and then I don't hear back. I call, leave a message...they don't call back. I wait. I hear nothing. I'm flustered, not sure what is going on, frustrated. I really want to know what happened. If they decided not to pick me I want to know why, I feel like I understand if they don't want me but I at least want to know why so I can think about it in future interviews. But at no point do I feel entitled to an explanation. Sure, I want an explanation...but I don't think they owe me one. And I don't think the buisness is immature to not supply me with a detailed explanation as to why they didn't hire me.
Now as someone in HR do you think applicants are entitled to explanations as to why they were not chosen from the pool of candidates? I might agree with you, as with the proof of life example, that they probably should inform the candidate they were not selected...but I mean are they entitled to an actual explanation as to why?
none of your arguments make sense
In general people who have been left at the altar are going to have a lot of sympathy for someone being ghosted. People who have been stalked are going to have a lot of sympathy for people who distance themselves from a relationship and try to cut ties. And quite often people in internet forums are going to side with the poster and pile on to the person who isn't in the conversation.
All I am saying is there are two sides to every relationship and its rarely simple enough to diagnose who is being immature and who isn't from an armchair...its just easy to do so. To anyone who is hurt from the way a relationship ends I do have sympathy for, but I don't see the point into ripping into the other person who isn't even around.
I'm sorry for hurt feelings, I sympathize with not knowing what happened. I assume that anyone who "ghosts" no longer wants to be in a relationship but since we don't know why that is I withhold any sort of judgement. Thats all. Is that really that hard to understand?
So how many times have you ghosted someone? Just curious.
Only fair I suppose to ask, no I haven't personally "ghosted" anyone. I don't honestly feel that has relevance to anyone else though, each example is situational and personal.
I don't know the circumstances of the ending of the relationship you are describing so I can't really comment. Only thing I can, and have, said is that anyone who "ghosts" someone no longer wants to be in a relationship with that person and the best anyone can do in those circumstances is come to terms with it and move on. Demanding closure won't get anywhere and asking why isn't likely going to lead towards coming to terms. Its *kitten*, no doubt.
Thank you for answering. I genuinely posted this whole thing to get different perspectives and answers. I'm glad everyone has been civil. Nothing is black and white and there's always 2 sides to every story.
I still hold the opinion that ghosting is hurtful, whether intended to be or not. No one wants to sit there and wonder what they did wrong or why they're not good enough.8 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »tinkerhellraiser wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
Actually your job analogy got me thinking, because I've been in (and I think most people have been in) a situation job related that would resonate with someone who works in HR that I think might be a possible analogy (at least to how I view it).
Lets say I apply for a job, I get an interview, the interview goes really well....I get a second interview, I feel that goes really well too. And then.....and then I don't hear back. I call, leave a message...they don't call back. I wait. I hear nothing. I'm flustered, not sure what is going on, frustrated. I really want to know what happened. If they decided not to pick me I want to know why, I feel like I understand if they don't want me but I at least want to know why so I can think about it in future interviews. But at no point do I feel entitled to an explanation. Sure, I want an explanation...but I don't think they owe me one. And I don't think the buisness is immature to not supply me with a detailed explanation as to why they didn't hire me.
Now as someone in HR do you think applicants are entitled to explanations as to why they were not chosen from the pool of candidates? I might agree with you, as with the proof of life example, that they probably should inform the candidate they were not selected...but I mean are they entitled to an actual explanation as to why?
none of your arguments make sense
In general people who have been left at the altar are going to have a lot of sympathy for someone being ghosted. People who have been stalked are going to have a lot of sympathy for people who distance themselves from a relationship and try to cut ties. And quite often people in internet forums are going to side with the poster and pile on to the person who isn't in the conversation.
All I am saying is there are two sides to every relationship and its rarely simple enough to diagnose who is being immature and who isn't from an armchair...its just easy to do so. To anyone who is hurt from the way a relationship ends I do have sympathy for, but I don't see the point into ripping into the other person who isn't even around.
I'm sorry for hurt feelings, I sympathize with not knowing what happened. I assume that anyone who "ghosts" no longer wants to be in a relationship but since we don't know why that is I withhold any sort of judgement. Thats all. Is that really that hard to understand?
So how many times have you ghosted someone? Just curious.
Only fair I suppose to ask, no I haven't personally "ghosted" anyone. I don't honestly feel that has relevance to anyone else though, each example is situational and personal.
I don't know the circumstances of the ending of the relationship you are describing so I can't really comment. Only thing I can, and have, said is that anyone who "ghosts" someone no longer wants to be in a relationship with that person and the best anyone can do in those circumstances is come to terms with it and move on. Demanding closure won't get anywhere and asking why isn't likely going to lead towards coming to terms. Its *kitten*, no doubt.
Thank you for answering. I genuinely posted this whole thing to get different perspectives and answers. I'm glad everyone has been civil. Nothing is black and white and there's always 2 sides to every story.
I still hold the opinion that ghosting is hurtful, whether intended to be or not. No one wants to sit there and wonder what they did wrong or why they're not good enough.
I feel much better knowing you were not offended, thank you. I also don't think you were ever expressing hostility towards your former partner, so my comments towards how I didn't think that was fair was more towards posters who were giving accusations of immaturity and cowardliness with what I felt was really insufficient context.
For what its worth, and assuming you would have some reason to care how I personally feel, I personally feel like it is rude to leave a committed relationship without providing an explanation or at least stating that you are ending the relationship preferable in person. I'm sympathetic towards your situation, I would not want to be put in that situation by somone I was in a relationship with.
I just also feel that how I *feel* about the matter has absolutely no bearing on anyone elses situations or circumstances so I don't tend to broadcast my personal feelings when it comes to other peoples relationships.
I personally have no idea why someone elses relationship ended or the circumstances therein and am not going to cast judgement on either party especially on having the situation described by one member of that party without the other one present. All I would say is that if someone "ghosts" another person then clearly that person is no longer wanting to be in a relationship so best to move on rather than to try to re-establish a connection with the person even if it is just to find out why. If you were previously friends or share family then that can be very difficult for sure. They clearly feel like that is the best for them to avoid contact and trying to demand otherwise is not going to do either side any favors. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to harbor some resentment for this and to think lesser of the person for having disrespected you and not taken your hurt as worth their time to try to resolve.
Sympathies to anyone with hurt feelings though, ended relationships are never pleasant for anyone involved.4 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »tinkerhellraiser wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »To turn the question around if you truly decide that you don't care about someone anymore then why would you take the time to try to explain that to them in a difficult and awkward conversation?
well if u mean a relationship ending then because youre not a sociopath and not loving someone anymore dont mean u dont respect they got feelings like a human
Yes exactly. It is very cruel to ghost someone you were previously in regular contact with or dating. I feel a simple explanation is better. I would much rather that than worry something happened to them, etc.
Cruelty is relative. It is cruel to subject someone to something that pains them. Some people are pained by not having closure, some people are pained by having to deal with conflict and attempt closure. You feel that not getting closure is cruel because you are personally somoene who wants closure...but that doesn't make it some objective truth that applies to all people in all cases.
If it is cruel to not provide someone closure if they want it then isn't it equally cruel to demand that someone provide closure when they are uncomfortable doing so?
No it is not the same. If people can’t be mature adults and communicate then they shouldn't be dating. Ghosting is poor manners.
And if people are so entitled as to feel that someone who does not want to be involved with them is morally obligated to explain to them exactly why that is they shouldn't be dating. (I think that would be a jerk thing to say by the way I'm just flipping it so you can see it is a rather jerk thing to say in general). Its overgeneralized. Its a perspective thing, its subjective. I do believe that a person who dates someone and then decides to leave a relationship without bothering to tell the person they are dating to be immature in certain circumstances sure...but not all. I just also believe that a person who dates someone and gets "ghosted" feels that they are in some way entitled to an explanation to be rather immature as well in certain circumstances as well...but not all. I'm not going to declare it to be immature in general and in a one sided dialogue where only one side is represented I think its pretty easy to be judgmental.
I don’t feel that expecting a man I have been dating for a month or more to simply tell me if he doesn’t want to date anymore makes me entitled. That is just basic respect. To just flat out stop responding one day when the previous day everything was seemingly great or fine is a real jerk move that leads to a lot of confusion, worry, and is just plan disrespectful.
He doesn’t have to give me a long explanation. I have had a couple guys tell me they just lost interest and aren’t on the same page and I left it at that and I wished them well. I respect men who can be adults and communicate. I don’t respect people who ghost. That is cowardly and mean.
I 100% think these are two different things and not simply a matter of perspective. That’s a lame excuse. Expecting basic communication skills and respect is not the same as someone completely disappearing and leaving someone else in the dark. I’m the type of person that cares and I would worry if he’s still alive.6 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
Actually your job analogy got me thinking, because I've been in (and I think most people have been in) a situation job related that would resonate with someone who works in HR that I think might be a possible analogy (at least to how I view it).
Lets say I apply for a job, I get an interview, the interview goes really well....I get a second interview, I feel that goes really well too. And then.....and then I don't hear back. I call, leave a message...they don't call back. I wait. I hear nothing. I'm flustered, not sure what is going on, frustrated. I really want to know what happened. If they decided not to pick me I want to know why, I feel like I understand if they don't want me but I at least want to know why so I can think about it in future interviews. But at no point do I feel entitled to an explanation. Sure, I want an explanation...but I don't think they owe me one. And I don't think the buisness is immature to not supply me with a detailed explanation as to why they didn't hire me.
Now as someone in HR do you think applicants are entitled to explanations as to why they were not chosen from the pool of candidates? I might agree with you, as with the proof of life example, that they probably should inform the candidate they were not selected...but I mean are they entitled to an actual explanation as to why?
Yes I feel all candidates after an interview deserve follow-up, even if it's just an email saying the company moved forward with more qualified candidates. I hate the word of entitled, but if someone took time out to interview they should receive follow-up, not saying a in depth explanation, but yes follow-up is professional and what should happen.
8 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
Actually your job analogy got me thinking, because I've been in (and I think most people have been in) a situation job related that would resonate with someone who works in HR that I think might be a possible analogy (at least to how I view it).
Lets say I apply for a job, I get an interview, the interview goes really well....I get a second interview, I feel that goes really well too. And then.....and then I don't hear back. I call, leave a message...they don't call back. I wait. I hear nothing. I'm flustered, not sure what is going on, frustrated. I really want to know what happened. If they decided not to pick me I want to know why, I feel like I understand if they don't want me but I at least want to know why so I can think about it in future interviews. But at no point do I feel entitled to an explanation. Sure, I want an explanation...but I don't think they owe me one. And I don't think the buisness is immature to not supply me with a detailed explanation as to why they didn't hire me.
Now as someone in HR do you think applicants are entitled to explanations as to why they were not chosen from the pool of candidates? I might agree with you, as with the proof of life example, that they probably should inform the candidate they were not selected...but I mean are they entitled to an actual explanation as to why?
Yes I feel all candidates after an interview deserve follow-up, even if it's just an email saying the company moved forward with more qualified candidates. I hate the word of entitled, but if someone took time out to interview they should receive follow-up, not saying a in depth explanation, but yes follow-up is professional and what should happen.
That's awesome, especially since there's no "relationship" at that point, either. It's a trial, to see if a person and their skill set will fit a need in the company.
You do HR well.3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
Texting "hey I don't think it's a good idea to see each other anymore, good luck to you. Bye" is took awkward? I feel if you are adult enough to date then you should be able to that. Same goes for the work place. If you want to quit a job at least leave a note or voicemail. (I work in HR and really dislike no-show employees)
Actually your job analogy got me thinking, because I've been in (and I think most people have been in) a situation job related that would resonate with someone who works in HR that I think might be a possible analogy (at least to how I view it).
Lets say I apply for a job, I get an interview, the interview goes really well....I get a second interview, I feel that goes really well too. And then.....and then I don't hear back. I call, leave a message...they don't call back. I wait. I hear nothing. I'm flustered, not sure what is going on, frustrated. I really want to know what happened. If they decided not to pick me I want to know why, I feel like I understand if they don't want me but I at least want to know why so I can think about it in future interviews. But at no point do I feel entitled to an explanation. Sure, I want an explanation...but I don't think they owe me one. And I don't think the buisness is immature to not supply me with a detailed explanation as to why they didn't hire me.
Now as someone in HR do you think applicants are entitled to explanations as to why they were not chosen from the pool of candidates? I might agree with you, as with the proof of life example, that they probably should inform the candidate they were not selected...but I mean are they entitled to an actual explanation as to why?
Yes I feel all candidates after an interview deserve follow-up, even if it's just an email saying the company moved forward with more qualified candidates. I hate the word of entitled, but if someone took time out to interview they should receive follow-up, not saying a in depth explanation, but yes follow-up is professional and what should happen.
So rare in the job search market... usually they leave you hanging and "ghost".3 -
tcunbeliever wrote: »As someone who has dated longer than texting has been a thing that existed, I find it appalling that a break up text is somehow socially appropriate. To me, that's even worse than nothing.
unless it is a case of questionable mental stability, texting is really not appropriate still.
and i would prefer a text break up over nothing. at least there is closure.
i've had both. ball up and give me a text4 -
I was ghosted once, long ago, before ghosting was even a thing. He disappeared from my life so suddenly and painfully that it took me years to recover, if I’m honest. I was a lot younger then. He contacted me about a year after and explained that he had had severe anxiety come up and he retreated from his life entirely. Then the longer he took to contact me, the more he was sure i hated him and he couldn’t get himself to do it. Meanwhile, I was scouring obituaries daily, desperate to know that he was at least okay.
At this point in my life I totally get it. Anxiety makes me retreat in much the same way and I constantly feel like I’m crawling back to people hoping they’ll take me back in their lives.
Sorry about the radio silence. I hope there’s a good reason, but regardless.. you deserve better.6 -
If I feel like I'm just pestering you 👻
If there's just no chemistry 👻
If you sweat me, or try to manipulate me 👻
If I feel like I'm number 4 or 5 👻
If you 👻, because you thought I was 👻, when I'm really just busy 👻3 -
.0
-
Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »If I feel like I'm just pestering you 👻
If there's just no chemistry 👻
If you sweat me, or try to manipulate me 👻
If I feel like I'm number 4 or 5 👻
If you 👻, because you thought I was 👻, when I'm really just busy 👻
Note... These may not seem like serious answers, but I've learned not to take things (especially people online) to seriously... Live and let live 🖖🏼1 -
CanesGalactica wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Ghosting someone you are dating is immature is 99% of situations. A simple text, email, some sort of communication saying it isn't working is enough. Doesn't have to provide an answer or two way conversation, but please make it known that it's over. If someone is really afraid for their safety then I can understand not providing that communication, but won't the other person dwell on it and try and find you at your house, place of work, where you hangout? Now that would be awful.
I guess I see it as two people. One person no longer wants to be in a relationship with the other and decides to leave and doesn't want the awkwardness or conflict that would arise from trying to seek closure. The other person still wants to be with them or at least is not expecting the breakup and is left wanting to know why and to have closure.
Both are in an awkward situation, both want something. I guess what I don't get is why one persons wants default-trump the others. IE this idea that one person owes the other person but not the other way around.
... no. If you can't be mature enough to overcome your "awkwardness" and at least have the decency to say "I am no longer interested in pursuing this relationship, blah blah blah" then you don't deserve to nor SHOULD you be dating people. It might be awkward, but for *kitten*'s sake, be an adult and just own it. Most people saying they want "closure" aren't looking into an in depth psychoanalytic breakdown of the relationship. They just want to know it's done, over and that they can move on without worrying about that other person or something they might have done that could have mitigated the relationship.
It's not that complicated.
Very well said. I suspect that ghosters have an overall inability to deal with anything unpleasant or awkward in life and avoid a lot of it by running away.
I inadvertently ghosted a guy I was sort of half-heartedly dating when my employer shut down a number of inactive company cell phones and mine was (erroneously) one of the ones that the provider cancelled. On a Friday afternoon. My service didn't get restored until Monday. And instead of sending him a text explaining why I'd been silent for three days, I just let things slide.
Ghosting wasn't really a thing before cell phones, at least not that I can ever remember.0 -
I'm really intrested in getting some insight into this whole thing.
Why do people do it?
Is it so hard to just tell someone you can't stand their face anymore? Or that they have had breath, or their voice is annoying, or absolutely any explanation as to why you just cut off communication without any explanation?
Ghosters, give me some answers please.
I Think sometimes it's because someone can be a bit clingy and sometimes it's okay and nice but sometimes it's too much when they're being overbearing. I guess sometimes you just don't want to hurt they're feelings. It's better to be upfront but sometimes it feels easier this way. That said I try not to ghost many people. Positive vibes ✌️😋1 -
The classic “ I’m worried about you”.
Please. From my experience that’s just manipulation to get you talking to them.3
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