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Jillian Michael comments about Lizzo
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I suppose after watching that I have to acknowledge that there is something about her that just rubs me the wrong way. Maybe she reminds me of someone who done me wrong in the past
Anyway, I still fail to see obesity being "glamorized", especially to the point we have to worry that obese people will think it's healthy. Just because there are 3 or 4 famous women at any given time who are obese and celebrated doesn't a sea change make.
There are still thousands of young women starving themselves to be skinny. There are still actresses, models, and musicians being pressured to lose weight or have surgery to look more thin. There are still celebrities all over the internet and airwaves being celebrated for drinking ACV or doing keto or eating organic-macrobiotic-vegan or talking about the 2 hour workout their celebrity trainer puts them through. Diet and fitness books are still a multi-million dollar industry. People are still so desperate to lose weight that Peloton knows they will spend $2500 on a bike/laundry rack, stupid commercial or not. The fact that the media "celebrates" Ashley Graham and Lizzo for owning their physical presence without shame does not actually seem to be having a society-altering affect, especially considering many of the people commenting here had to go google who Lizzo was. I know lots of people who are overweight or obese, and while they believe a lot of myths, none of them believe they are healthy that way. Many of them think of themselves as unattractive and as failures because they are overweight. I know more than one who has considered self-harm. That is far more worrying to me.
Perhaps if it seemed to me like "obese=perfectly healthy" was a growing popular trend, her whole narrative wouldn't bother me that much. But I'd guess that her promoting the idea that obese celebrities are a danger to society is just as much attention seeking as Lizzo wearing thong-pants.9 -
I suppose after watching that I have to acknowledge that there is something about her that just rubs me the wrong way. Maybe she reminds me of someone who done me wrong in the past
Anyway, I still fail to see obesity being "glamorized", especially to the point we have to worry that obese people will think it's healthy. Just because there are 3 or 4 famous women at any given time who are obese and celebrated doesn't a sea change make.
There are still thousands of young women starving themselves to be skinny. There are still actresses, models, and musicians being pressured to lose weight or have surgery to look more thin. There are still celebrities all over the internet and airwaves being celebrated for drinking ACV or doing keto or eating organic-macrobiotic-vegan or talking about the 2 hour workout their celebrity trainer puts them through. Diet and fitness books are still a multi-million dollar industry. People are still so desperate to lose weight that Peloton knows they will spend $2500 on a bike/laundry rack, stupid commercial or not. The fact that the media "celebrates" Ashley Graham and Lizzo for owning their physical presence without shame does not actually seem to be having a society-altering affect, especially considering many of the people commenting here had to go google who Lizzo was. I know lots of people who are overweight or obese, and while they believe a lot of myths, none of them believe they are healthy that way. Many of them think of themselves as unattractive and as failures because they are overweight. I know more than one who has considered self-harm. That is far more worrying to me.
Perhaps if it seemed to me like "obese=perfectly healthy" was a growing popular trend, her whole narrative wouldn't bother me that much. But I'd guess that her promoting the idea that obese celebrities are a danger to society is just as much attention seeking as Lizzo wearing thong-pants.
I think I mostly agree with you, in that overweight has been so demonized and shamed for so long (I think maybe especially so among women, even at relatively lower weights, but maybe I only think that because I notice that more, being a woman myself).
I do think there's a strain of overboard-ness in the rhetoric, sometimes, though, and that's a worry. (I'd go as far as saying I do think "obese can be perfectly healthy" is an idea that's gradually increasing strength in popular culture, though it's not dominant.)
There are certainly also thousands of women who are seriously overweight or obese and in some form of denial (slow metabolism, impossible to lose, BMI is wrong because athletes, etc., etc.), not just over-thin women who are in denial. (I agree that the get-thin industry is riding the money train more, of course. But much of that industry may also have some insight that keeping people fat, or yo-yo-ing, is important to their continuing profit; and selling (and super-sizing) candy and fast food and soda is a pretty big industry, too.)
Yes, we see people (mostly women) here on MFP (and elsewhere) thinking they're fat at BMI 19 or less, and wanting to get thinner, posting photos of obviously posed/photoshopped IG-ers or celebrities and asking how to look like that, etc.
But we do also see here people saying they are/were healthy despite being overweight/obese, or arguing that anything in the normal BMI range would be waaay too skinny/sick/skeletal (and not always just for themselves), or mentioning relatives who lived long and well at high bodyweights. Overweight and obesity are somewhat normalized, in a practical sense. Nonetheless, statistically, odds are pretty low of lifelong good health at an obese bodyweight.
I am not saying those extremes are usual cases; I'm saying that there are a small number of cases of distorted thinking at both ends of the bodyweight range. Either of these extremes can be dangerous to one degree or another, and both concern me. Therefore, mystification or click-baiting around those issues, or beliefs that put discussion of health off limits, also concerns me. (One respect in which I think JM is right is that the health side of it needn't be personalized in public discourse.)
I'm far from arguing that Lizzo is a danger to society (I kind of find her a breath of fresh air, actually, overall). I don't care for Jillian Michaels, but it seems that when you take her remarks in context, they're not deeply unreasonable, either.
Both people are celebrities who have some practice at presenting themselves in public, more so than most of us. Nonetheless, they are just people in the last analysis, and people are going to put things in ways that can be misinterpreted or that don't fully reflect their considered opinions, are going to act impulsively at times, etc. They're real people.
What I do think is that regular everyday people who are eager to rationalize their own risky behavior - at either extreme of weight range - will seize on rhetoric in popular culture that helps them shore up those rationalizations. That's not necessarily a conscious choice, either.
I guess I'd still argue that the one of the most negative forces in all of this are the clickbait slingers who take things out of context, to fuel the outrage flames and the "culture wars". By and large, I think they know what they're doing, and do it intentionally, out of pure self-interest. It's on us when we get hooked by that.
If I feel outrage when I read something, and want to share/repost/click etc., I think that ought to be a mental prompt to think a little harder and dig a little deeper before doing so, because it's likely that someone is trying to manipulate me, whether for simple profit, or for more pernicious reasons.
And I still think it's pretty silly to be outraged at Lizzo's near-bare behind, when there's a whole troupe of women on the court paid to shake those thangs, whose cheekiness is only maybe 30-40% covered vs. Lizzo's 10% covered (I'm making up those numbers, but trying to make it a fair estimate in consideration of differing BMIs. The Laker girls, at times, perform in pretty high-cut bikini bottoms, though sometimes with a flirty li'l skirt or fringe on top that flies up oh so charmingly as they dance
).
Yes, Lizzo was more extreme, but outrage at her while ignoring them or thinking of them as somehow much more wholesome also carries some cultural baggage, IMO. There's always a line in what degree of public self-exposure is considered "decent", but the actual difference in exposure here is slicing it pretty fine, IMO.
I think it's making a difference that she is who she is, and is unusual; and they're just a routine part of the normal show that we take for granted. 5 -
Of course a fitness trainer is going to speak to health and fitness. The more interesting question is why the interviewer focused on a very large woman as opposed to a female figure whose body displays too low body fat to be healthy. As a culture we celebrate the physiques of models, ballet dancers, gymnasts, and bodybuilders. Let's talk about the cardiovascular dangers of things like cutting, anorexia & bulimia - and the added dangers to women when their body fat gets so low their menses stop.2
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's not a literal term and you know that. She wore a dress that had a giant circle cut out of the rear that showed her complete *kitten* which was only covered by a thong. She then, in a public place, with tens of thousands of people present - many of them young children, twerked that uncovered *kitten* for everybody to see.
Nice "whataboutisms" further down - but I don't think Madonna, Howard Stern, or any other celebrity that I can think of has done something like this at a sports game in recent memory... maybe on stage or in Howard's case to promote a stupid movie.
So the parents of these young children are okay with the uniforms of the Laker Girls, which expose nearly as much, but seeing Lizzo's body is the bridge too far? We see as much of other celebrities all the time. Opposing it as a general trend, I get, but claiming that Lizzo is somehow worse is ridiculous. She's not the first celebrity to appear in the thong, she's not the first celebrity to twerk, she's not the first celebrity to reveal to kids that adults have butts.
Has Madonna done something like this in *recent* memory? Not that I'm aware of. But come on, you're acting like bringing up *Madonna* isn't relevant in a discussion about how Lizzo isn't the first female singer to display her body? That's not "whataboutism," it's acknowledging the reality that Lizzo is part of a hearty and longstanding tradition of female singers, she's just one of the biggest people to engage in it.
The way I understand it she was an audience member showing her *kitten* at a game not a performer. The last time I saw a sporting event none of the cheerleaders or scheduled entertainers were wearing visible thongs.
NBD, she is most likely somewhere around 14:30 on her 15:00 minutes if she feels she needs to do that to get attention.
So the argument is that it is appropriate to show parts of your body if you're performing, but if you're merely part of the audience it isn't? I am not convinced of this. What's the relevant difference?
If she had been performing at halftime in that uniform, it would somehow be more acceptable?
The spectators generally know what the cheerleader look like at a sporting event and the leagues have certain standards they must abide by. They also have rules for costumes used by any of the entertainment at the game. If a spectator doesn't want to see the league approved dress (cheerleaders or entertainment), they have the right not to go to the event.
If the NBA says a thong is fine dress for an entertainer, go for it with my blessings. If a publicity hound chooses to drop his or her drawers at a sporting event not really a fan of that.
She didn't "drop her drawers." She was wearing a revealing dress, one that is legal. You've seen just as much of other pop stars. We don't have a right to control what others wear just because we're buying a ticket to an NBA game.
Do you think that if you as a spectator at a game wore the same outfit, revealed yourself and acted in the same way you wouldn't at the very least be told to quit or possibly, more likely get kicked out and/or get a disorderly conduct violation?
It was a cheap publicity stunt that people paying good money to attend the game shouldn't be subjected to IMO. If the team authorized it another story.
My thoughts don't change regardless of her appearance.
The "team" (in the sense of the business) let her in dressed that way and apparently chose to play one of her songs knowing she was sitting court-side, and then apparently chose to display her thong-exposed rear while she was dancing to her song on the jumbotron, so, yeah, I don't think there's any "if" to whether the team authorized it.
You have obviously researched this more than I have (afraid what ads, suggestions, etc I would get if I Googled Lizzo twerking). It sounds like a publicity set up. Let them go for it. Fans that don't like that type of thing at a game can vote with their wallets and stay home.
That said, my earlier comment still stands - "she is most likely somewhere around 14:30 on her 15:00 minutes if she feels she needs to do that to get attention".
My only research was reading this thread. I didn't google or click on the links for the same reason you mention. Thus all the "apparently"s in my post -- I'm taking the (unchallenged) accounts of what happened at face value.0 -
I see nothing wrong with what she said. She wasn’t being insulting. We are entitled to our opinions
@nooshi713 I like how someone disagreed when your last line is we are entitled to our opinion. I'm assuming they don't disagree with that part
Yep!!
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I admit to not reading every comment in this thread, but still... because media is media and drama is drama, Bob Harper, Jillian’s colleague in the Biggest Loser, was asked for comment on the matter, and I think what he said was actually pretty smart. What he basically said that while he of course has opinions on a general level, he keeps his mouth shut about individual people unless the people themselves approach him and ask for an opinion or advice.14
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It's a condition. It won't be awesome IF she gets diabetes.
She's not saying she will or won't. However, obesity leads to a higher incidence of diabetes so the odds are not in her favor.
I don't think JM can win here. Had she not said anything, there would be those who call her out on missing the chance to speak truth to the phenomenon.
I'd rather someone tell me an uncomfortable truth than remain comfortably silent and polite.
She wasn't offensive or disrespectful.
Sometimes, truth is painful.
Deal with it and grow.She could have left it as "Why do we care?" instead of "It won't be awesome if she gets diabetes".
Health judgments/assumptions don't belong.
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I suppose after watching that I have to acknowledge that there is something about her that just rubs me the wrong way. Maybe she reminds me of someone who done me wrong in the past
Anyway, I still fail to see obesity being "glamorized", especially to the point we have to worry that obese people will think it's healthy. Just because there are 3 or 4 famous women at any given time who are obese and celebrated doesn't a sea change make.
There are still thousands of young women starving themselves to be skinny. There are still actresses, models, and musicians being pressured to lose weight or have surgery to look more thin. There are still celebrities all over the internet and airwaves being celebrated for drinking ACV or doing keto or eating organic-macrobiotic-vegan or talking about the 2 hour workout their celebrity trainer puts them through. Diet and fitness books are still a multi-million dollar industry. People are still so desperate to lose weight that Peloton knows they will spend $2500 on a bike/laundry rack, stupid commercial or not. The fact that the media "celebrates" Ashley Graham and Lizzo for owning their physical presence without shame does not actually seem to be having a society-altering affect, especially considering many of the people commenting here had to go google who Lizzo was. I know lots of people who are overweight or obese, and while they believe a lot of myths, none of them believe they are healthy that way. Many of them think of themselves as unattractive and as failures because they are overweight. I know more than one who has considered self-harm. That is far more worrying to me.
Perhaps if it seemed to me like "obese=perfectly healthy" was a growing popular trend, her whole narrative wouldn't bother me that much. But I'd guess that her promoting the idea that obese celebrities are a danger to society is just as much attention seeking as Lizzo wearing thong-pants.
The problem is there is becoming a shift of people celebrating obesity. The whole celebrating "dad bods", girls with huge butts, and some cultures actually have a strong attachment to women being obese. Not saying dad bods and big butts aren't attractive to people but it's not healthy to promote people to be that way.
Nothing wrong with being obese other than the health reasons but I don't think we should be celebrating unfitness.
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liftingbro wrote: »I suppose after watching that I have to acknowledge that there is something about her that just rubs me the wrong way. Maybe she reminds me of someone who done me wrong in the past
Anyway, I still fail to see obesity being "glamorized", especially to the point we have to worry that obese people will think it's healthy. Just because there are 3 or 4 famous women at any given time who are obese and celebrated doesn't a sea change make.
There are still thousands of young women starving themselves to be skinny. There are still actresses, models, and musicians being pressured to lose weight or have surgery to look more thin. There are still celebrities all over the internet and airwaves being celebrated for drinking ACV or doing keto or eating organic-macrobiotic-vegan or talking about the 2 hour workout their celebrity trainer puts them through. Diet and fitness books are still a multi-million dollar industry. People are still so desperate to lose weight that Peloton knows they will spend $2500 on a bike/laundry rack, stupid commercial or not. The fact that the media "celebrates" Ashley Graham and Lizzo for owning their physical presence without shame does not actually seem to be having a society-altering affect, especially considering many of the people commenting here had to go google who Lizzo was. I know lots of people who are overweight or obese, and while they believe a lot of myths, none of them believe they are healthy that way. Many of them think of themselves as unattractive and as failures because they are overweight. I know more than one who has considered self-harm. That is far more worrying to me.
Perhaps if it seemed to me like "obese=perfectly healthy" was a growing popular trend, her whole narrative wouldn't bother me that much. But I'd guess that her promoting the idea that obese celebrities are a danger to society is just as much attention seeking as Lizzo wearing thong-pants.
The problem is there is becoming a shift of people celebrating obesity. The whole celebrating "dad bods", girls with huge butts, and some cultures actually have a strong attachment to women being obese. Not saying dad bods and big butts aren't attractive to people but it's not healthy to promote people to be that way.
Nothing wrong with being obese other than the health reasons but I don't think we should be celebrating unfitness.
I guess maybe that's the crux of the argument then. Perhaps it's just the circles I run in and the entertainment I prefer, but I don't see anyone "celebrating obesity" or unfitness. Everything I saw about "dad bods" was tongue in cheek or flat out joking, and I haven't heard the term used recently at all. And having a big butt doesn't necessarily equate to obese. And what I see around Lizzo is this one woman who looks different than society typically prefers, who is flaunting her size. And people are going, wow she's so brave. And it's brave because it's NOT anywhere near the norm. But maybe this trend celebrating obesity is just happening in areas I don't pay attention to so I don't see it, that would explain the disconnect.7 -
Her music sucks but I don't care if she wants to be naked rolls and all8
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I think the real question here is whether anyone is really glorifying or celebrating obesity. I think what's really being glorified/celebrated is self esteem. I don't know a single person who is going around wishing to be obese, so if society is supposedly promoting obesity now, I don't think it's working. On the other hand, I do know lots and lots of people wishing to be thinner, so that message from society still seems to be coming through loud and clear. I think it's great for Lizzo, along with the rest of us, to have a positive body image. Fat-shaming is not a great motivator when it comes to weight loss and fitness. In fact, I'd say in general, it probably causes more people to gain weight rather than lose it. Accepting and loving your body is much more likely to motivate people to treat their bodies with kindness and respect, which may lead to making more healthy choices. Love yourselves and love each other.
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...and J.M's. opinion is important because?.....4
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Jillian was correct. Hey great for her she feels good about herself - but to glorify obesity is just wrong - obesity kills more people every year than smoking and your life expectancy is 2 years less due to conditions brought on my obesity7
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neugebauer52 wrote: »...and J.M's. opinion is important because?.....
...because it has a logical framework.
...because it is calmly rational and well reasoned where even if one may disagree with the conclusion, one can recognize the path from origin to conclusion.8 -
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I love Lizzo, but I wouldn't have expected JM to have anything positive to say considering her entire career is about weightloss and fitness, whereas lizzo is about body positivity and fat acceptance. I thought JM was goaded really there and what she said wasn't that bad9
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>light bulb< Thank you for saying this.The real issue is attaching our body to our self worth in general, even if it is positive. Our value should not change no matter how we feel about our body. There are days I feel like a monster and days I feel good looking - but my value never waivers.
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suzycreamcheese wrote: »I love Lizzo, but I wouldn't have expected JM to have anything positive to say considering her entire career is about weightloss and fitness, whereas lizzo is about body positivity and fat acceptance. I thought JM was goaded really there and what she said wasn't that bad
She commented in a positive way about her music but was pushed to talk about weight...because of her job in the weight loss/fitness industry.
JM used to be over weight too...she has as much right to comment as anyone who comments about the Olsen twins being too skinny? but nope that isn't in the news...them being slim is but not the comments about it...double standard imo.
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People are such cry babies now. For the love of god, we are enabling people to be so coddled. Lizzo is a great artist and pretty good at music. But health wise, she is in danger of a lot of things with her weight. JM makes a comment saying her music is great but comments on the weight on how she is open to many different illnesses. I see nothing wrong with what she said. Its great that Lizzo is happy with what she is. Great but its also dangerous.11
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The interviewer was really pushing the fat acceptance angle to a fitness professional and people are surprised by what she said? Really?
To be fair, she did try to focus on Lizzo’s music and say positive things about that. I don’t know what people honestly expected her to say while keeping her professional integrity intact?5 -
I don't choose to comment on other people's weight or bodies unless they ask me to?
I think it's great if people feel good about themselves and attractive no matter their weight, and I think Lizzo is a positive and extremely talented person. Of course, without commenting on any person in particular, while I think it is great and important that one should have self-esteem and positivity no matter their size, it is also true that obesity is a health risk and it would be good to find ways to help tackle this health risk societally. I think [go on about whatever she thinks is the best way to handle the problem generally, without focusing on Lizzo].3 -
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I like Jillian. I like someone that doesn’t coddle people and tells it like it is. Most people just can’t handle it but that doesn’t change the truth.6
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neugebauer52 wrote: »...and J.M's. opinion is important because?.....
She was on TV?0 -
I feel like I’m elevated Lizzie status a bit like people who don’t know are looking her up and listening for the first time just cause. I mean it is the way Jillian talks period and feel like it was set to illicit a response from Jillian tbh1
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I'm conflicted, because I don't like Lizzo's music and I am not a fan of enabling unsafe health conditions - but I do like the fact that someone other than an emaciated barbie doll can make a living in the entertainment industry.7
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Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I'm conflicted, because I don't like Lizzo's music and I am not a fan of enabling unsafe health conditions - but I do like the fact that someone other than an emaciated barbie doll can make a living in the entertainment industry.
Calling a thin woman an emaciated barbie doll seems just as bad to me as commenting on Lizzo's weight.9 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I'm conflicted, because I don't like Lizzo's music and I am not a fan of enabling unsafe health conditions - but I do like the fact that someone other than an emaciated barbie doll can make a living in the entertainment industry.
Calling a thin woman an emaciated barbie doll seems just as bad to me as commenting on Lizzo's weight.
I didn't identify any particular woman, so you have to try really, really hard to find offense and then white knight this.
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Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I'm conflicted, because I don't like Lizzo's music and I am not a fan of enabling unsafe health conditions - but I do like the fact that someone other than an emaciated barbie doll can make a living in the entertainment industry.
Calling a thin woman an emaciated barbie doll seems just as bad to me as commenting on Lizzo's weight.
I didn't identify any particular woman, so you have to try really, really hard to find offense and then white knight this.
You didn't need to identify anyone specifically, your comment was still judging another person based on their appearance which is pretty *kitten* of you in my opinion. It would be like if I said that it was nice to see thin people eating at a buffet and not just disgusting fat people. Regardless of whether I singled anyone out individually doesn't make the statement less offensive, and it doesn't take a "white knight" to realize something as obvious as that.9 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I'm conflicted, because I don't like Lizzo's music and I am not a fan of enabling unsafe health conditions - but I do like the fact that someone other than an emaciated barbie doll can make a living in the entertainment industry.
Calling a thin woman an emaciated barbie doll seems just as bad to me as commenting on Lizzo's weight.
I didn't identify any particular woman, so you have to try really, really hard to find offense and then white knight this.
You didn't need to identify anyone specifically, your comment was still judging another person based on their appearance which is pretty *kitten* of you in my opinion. It would be like if I said that it was nice to see thin people eating at a buffet and not just disgusting fat people. Regardless of whether I singled anyone out individually doesn't make the statement less offensive, and it doesn't take a "white knight" to realize something as obvious as that.
Hollywood and the music industry should be the sources of your offense, they are the ones who created industries where you have to be a perfect 10 to compete. Why is Lizzo such a unique situation? Because there are barriers to entry based on appearance.
Here is a list of the world's top-grossing female singers:
Rihanna.
Katy Perry
Pink
Ariana Grande
Jennifer Lopez
Lady Gaga
Celine Dion.
Shakira.
Beyonce
Taylor Swift
Here are the top-earning female actors from 2019:
Scarlett Johansson
Sofia Vergara
Reese Witherspoon
Nicole Kidman
Jennifer Aniston
Kaley Cuoco
Elisabeth Moss
Margot Robbie
Charlize Theron
Ellen Pompeo
See a pattern here? Are you telling me that only thin, gorgeous women have great voices or great acting skills? But hey, get offended by a silly characterization that wasn't directed at any particular person.6
This discussion has been closed.
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