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Anyone cutting after a bulk?

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  • sardelsasardelsa Posts: 8,937Member Member Posts: 8,937Member Member
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    I just have a hard time buying into traditional cutting bulking - Lean bulking is far healthier and far more obtainable long term - movement of 300 calories up and down are far easier than 700-1000

    Oh wow I don't know who bulks with those numbers, I usually don't see a recommendation for higher than 500 per week above maintenance (for males) if they want to keep fat gain at bay. If they just want to get as big as possible then hey, that is their own prerogative.
  • imfornd70imfornd70 Posts: 552Member Member Posts: 552Member Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    I just have a hard time buying into traditional cutting bulking - Lean bulking is far healthier and far more obtainable long term - movement of 300 calories up and down are far easier than 700-1000

    Oh wow I don't know who bulks with those numbers, I usually don't see a recommendation for higher than 500 per week above maintenance (for males) if they want to keep fat gain at bay. If they just want to get as big as possible then hey, that is their own prerogative.

    I agree but I see it more often than not - I hang out in the 300 range and up my HV workouts to burn off the xtra
  • GaryRunsGaryRuns Posts: 347Member, Premium Member Posts: 347Member, Premium Member
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    I just have a hard time buying into traditional cutting bulking - Lean bulking is far healthier and far more obtainable long term - movement of 300 calories up and down are far easier than 700-1000

    It's hard to say without context, eg., what a person's maintenance level is, but for most folks 700-1000 calories is a pretty large surplus/deficit. I haven't heard of anyone doing that, except perhaps to experiment with "dirty" bulking. Most people subscribe to the idea that keeping their surplus/deficit within 10-15% of their maintenance level during bulk/cut cycles is optimal.
  • sardelsasardelsa Posts: 8,937Member Member Posts: 8,937Member Member
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    I just have a hard time buying into traditional cutting bulking - Lean bulking is far healthier and far more obtainable long term - movement of 300 calories up and down are far easier than 700-1000

    Oh wow I don't know who bulks with those numbers, I usually don't see a recommendation for higher than 500 per week above maintenance (for males) if they want to keep fat gain at bay. If they just want to get as big as possible then hey, that is their own prerogative.

    I agree but I see it more often than not - I hang out in the 300 range and up my HV workouts to burn off the xtra

    If you are burning some off then your surplus must be really minimal and lean, which is fine if that's your goal!
  • Mr_Healthy_HabitsMr_Healthy_Habits Posts: 9,924Member Member Posts: 9,924Member Member
    I've always found it interesting how actors like the rock and the avengers will claim to eat 5-6k calories per day when adding muscle for a movie and still manage to not gain fat...

    First of all... I know they are not burning it all off everyday in the gym 8hrs per day... Your body just couldn't recover from that, joints muscles etc...

    And even if you could and did burn it all off every day, you wouldn't get any bigger...

    I mean it's possible they just simply starve themselves for 3 months before filming like some bodybuilders do...

    And then there's the obvious ped's... It's a mystery to me honestly
  • imfornd70imfornd70 Posts: 552Member Member Posts: 552Member Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    I just have a hard time buying into traditional cutting bulking - Lean bulking is far healthier and far more obtainable long term - movement of 300 calories up and down are far easier than 700-1000

    Oh wow I don't know who bulks with those numbers, I usually don't see a recommendation for higher than 500 per week above maintenance (for males) if they want to keep fat gain at bay. If they just want to get as big as possible then hey, that is their own prerogative.

    I agree but I see it more often than not - I hang out in the 300 range and up my HV workouts to burn off the xtra

    If you are burning some off then your surplus must be really minimal and lean, which is fine if that's your goal!

    for me I like to be withing 4-5% of the lowest fat % 7% in my case so i never reach more than 12 or so - well after the holidays I gave myself a couple extra LOL
  • sardelsasardelsa Posts: 8,937Member Member Posts: 8,937Member Member
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    I just have a hard time buying into traditional cutting bulking - Lean bulking is far healthier and far more obtainable long term - movement of 300 calories up and down are far easier than 700-1000

    Oh wow I don't know who bulks with those numbers, I usually don't see a recommendation for higher than 500 per week above maintenance (for males) if they want to keep fat gain at bay. If they just want to get as big as possible then hey, that is their own prerogative.

    I agree but I see it more often than not - I hang out in the 300 range and up my HV workouts to burn off the xtra

    If you are burning some off then your surplus must be really minimal and lean, which is fine if that's your goal!

    for me I like to be withing 4-5% of the lowest fat % 7% in my case so i never reach more than 12 or so - well after the holidays I gave myself a couple extra LOL

    I don't remember but do you compete ? In that case it's beneficial to not go too far from your stage leanness, just enough to relax and build a bit. I don't compete so I don't mind packing on some extra weight after getting super lean especially since I feel too scrawny
  • sardelsasardelsa Posts: 8,937Member Member Posts: 8,937Member Member
    I've always found it interesting how actors like the rock and the avengers will claim to eat 5-6k calories per day when adding muscle for a movie and still manage to not gain fat...

    First of all... I know they are not burning it all off everyday in the gym 8hrs per day... Your body just couldn't recover from that, joints muscles etc...

    And even if you could and did burn it all off every day, you wouldn't get any bigger...

    I mean it's possible they just simply starve themselves for 3 months before filming like some bodybuilders do...

    And then there's the obvious ped's... It's a mystery to me honestly

    I think these bigger guys are actually able to maintain on that intake, I know Lanny @Chieflrg maintains on that or higher if I'm not mistaken. It takes a lot of calories to move all that muscle around!
  • watts6151watts6151 Posts: 585Member, Premium Member Posts: 585Member, Premium Member
    I've always found it interesting how actors like the rock and the avengers will claim to eat 5-6k calories per day when adding muscle for a movie and still manage to not gain fat...

    First of all... I know they are not burning it all off everyday in the gym 8hrs per day... Your body just couldn't recover from that, joints muscles etc...

    And even if you could and did burn it all off every day, you wouldn't get any bigger...

    I mean it's possible they just simply starve themselves for 3 months before filming like some bodybuilders do...

    And then there's the obvious ped's... It's a mystery to me honestly

    No mystery, hours of training facilitated by a top noch trainer, dietitian and the best pharmaceutical drugs money can buy

    Depending on the time of the year my bulking cals are often over 6k daily
    edited February 3
  • Mr_Healthy_HabitsMr_Healthy_Habits Posts: 9,924Member Member Posts: 9,924Member Member
    watts6151 wrote: »
    I've always found it interesting how actors like the rock and the avengers will claim to eat 5-6k calories per day when adding muscle for a movie and still manage to not gain fat...

    First of all... I know they are not burning it all off everyday in the gym 8hrs per day... Your body just couldn't recover from that, joints muscles etc...

    And even if you could and did burn it all off every day, you wouldn't get any bigger...

    I mean it's possible they just simply starve themselves for 3 months before filming like some bodybuilders do...

    And then there's the obvious ped's... It's a mystery to me honestly

    No mystery, hours of training facilitated by a top noch trainer, dietitian and the best pharmaceutical drugs money can buy

    Depending on the time of the year my bulking cals are often over 6k daily

    Holy smokes... What kind of surplus are you in when bulking?
  • imfornd70imfornd70 Posts: 552Member Member Posts: 552Member Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    imfornd70 wrote: »
    I just have a hard time buying into traditional cutting bulking - Lean bulking is far healthier and far more obtainable long term - movement of 300 calories up and down are far easier than 700-1000

    Oh wow I don't know who bulks with those numbers, I usually don't see a recommendation for higher than 500 per week above maintenance (for males) if they want to keep fat gain at bay. If they just want to get as big as possible then hey, that is their own prerogative.

    I agree but I see it more often than not - I hang out in the 300 range and up my HV workouts to burn off the xtra

    If you are burning some off then your surplus must be really minimal and lean, which is fine if that's your goal!

    for me I like to be withing 4-5% of the lowest fat % 7% in my case so i never reach more than 12 or so - well after the holidays I gave myself a couple extra LOL

    I don't remember but do you compete ? In that case it's beneficial to not go too far from your stage leanness, just enough to relax and build a bit. I don't compete so I don't mind packing on some extra weight after getting super lean especially since I feel too scrawny

    Back in the day - Im 50 now so ummmm I leave that to the new lions - I hate the extreme dieting that came with it so it was jsut easier for me to stay leaner and cut a bit rather that feeling like crap for the last 5 -6 weeks
  • watts6151watts6151 Posts: 585Member, Premium Member Posts: 585Member, Premium Member
    watts6151 wrote: »
    I've always found it interesting how actors like the rock and the avengers will claim to eat 5-6k calories per day when adding muscle for a movie and still manage to not gain fat...

    First of all... I know they are not burning it all off everyday in the gym 8hrs per day... Your body just couldn't recover from that, joints muscles etc...

    And even if you could and did burn it all off every day, you wouldn't get any bigger...

    I mean it's possible they just simply starve themselves for 3 months before filming like some bodybuilders do...

    And then there's the obvious ped's... It's a mystery to me honestly

    No mystery, hours of training facilitated by a top noch trainer, dietitian and the best pharmaceutical drugs money can buy

    Depending on the time of the year my bulking cals are often over 6k daily

    Holy smokes... What kind of surplus are you in when bulking?


    Ball park 300-500, the main thing is for me to make sure I’m actually in a decent surplus, nobody actually knows how many calories their burning each day or exactly how many calories they are eating it’s all estimates and best guesses
  • RepswithRyanRepswithRyan Posts: 87Member, Premium Member Posts: 87Member, Premium Member
    watts6151 wrote: »
    watts6151 wrote: »
    I've always found it interesting how actors like the rock and the avengers will claim to eat 5-6k calories per day when adding muscle for a movie and still manage to not gain fat...

    First of all... I know they are not burning it all off everyday in the gym 8hrs per day... Your body just couldn't recover from that, joints muscles etc...

    And even if you could and did burn it all off every day, you wouldn't get any bigger...

    I mean it's possible they just simply starve themselves for 3 months before filming like some bodybuilders do...

    And then there's the obvious ped's... It's a mystery to me honestly

    No mystery, hours of training facilitated by a top noch trainer, dietitian and the best pharmaceutical drugs money can buy

    Depending on the time of the year my bulking cals are often over 6k daily

    Holy smokes... What kind of surplus are you in when bulking?


    Ball park 300-500, the main thing is for me to make sure I’m actually in a decent surplus, nobody actually knows how many calories their burning each day or exactly how many calories they are eating it’s all estimates and best guesses

    Damn, 6000.

    Powerlifter or strongman competitor?
  • steveko89steveko89 Posts: 1,558Member Member Posts: 1,558Member Member
    Geez, I'll just sit quietly in the corner with my ~2500 cal TDEE
  • Mr_Healthy_HabitsMr_Healthy_Habits Posts: 9,924Member Member Posts: 9,924Member Member
    steveko89 wrote: »
    Geez, I'll just sit quietly in the corner with my ~2500 cal TDEE

    My fitbit tells me my TDEE is about 3500 calories, but based on the scale and calorie intake... It's probably closer to 2500 per day... I just can't lose weight eating more than that and I'm a pretty active guy...

    I've always wondered if my metabolism has slowed because of all the weight I had lost... But maybe I'm just eating more than I realize too... Or blowing it on the weekends more than I realize, or both...

    I've got a pretty low resting heart rate... Low 40s, not sure if that's an indication but maybe...
  • GaryRunsGaryRuns Posts: 347Member, Premium Member Posts: 347Member, Premium Member
    I have to admit to having some nerd shame but I'm gonna own it anyway. I've been cutting for a while so I created a spreadsheet that figures out my average rate of weight loss over that time period, how many calories in deficit that corresponds to, and then uses that to estimate my maintenance level. It's got me at about 2700.

    I'll see how accurate it is after I finish this $^*! cut and start bulking, assuming I ever finish this cut!
  • steveko89steveko89 Posts: 1,558Member Member Posts: 1,558Member Member
    GaryRuns wrote: »
    I have to admit to having some nerd shame but I'm gonna own it anyway. I've been cutting for a while so I created a spreadsheet that figures out my average rate of weight loss over that time period, how many calories in deficit that corresponds to, and then uses that to estimate my maintenance level. It's got me at about 2700.

    I'll see how accurate it is after I finish this $^*! cut and start bulking, assuming I ever finish this cut!

    I use one for TDEE I found on r/fitness. It's limited to just over a year so I mirror data entry in a full log file... 927 consecutive days of data so far.
  • watts6151watts6151 Posts: 585Member, Premium Member Posts: 585Member, Premium Member
    LvlUpStr wrote: »
    watts6151 wrote: »
    watts6151 wrote: »
    I've always found it interesting how actors like the rock and the avengers will claim to eat 5-6k calories per day when adding muscle for a movie and still manage to not gain fat...

    First of all... I know they are not burning it all off everyday in the gym 8hrs per day... Your body just couldn't recover from that, joints muscles etc...

    And even if you could and did burn it all off every day, you wouldn't get any bigger...

    I mean it's possible they just simply starve themselves for 3 months before filming like some bodybuilders do...

    And then there's the obvious ped's... It's a mystery to me honestly

    No mystery, hours of training facilitated by a top noch trainer, dietitian and the best pharmaceutical drugs money can buy

    Depending on the time of the year my bulking cals are often over 6k daily

    Holy smokes... What kind of surplus are you in when bulking?


    Ball park 300-500, the main thing is for me to make sure I’m actually in a decent surplus, nobody actually knows how many calories their burning each day or exactly how many calories they are eating it’s all estimates and best guesses

    Damn, 6000.

    Powerlifter or strongman competitor?


    Just a gym rat focused on physique

    Maintenance in the summer months is around 4000

    Maintenance in winter can often be over5.5k

    It’s early morning starts, attempting to juggle family life, running a business, getting into the gym then making sure the dogs walked,
    Many times in winter I’m walking the dog after 11pm trying to get to bed before midnight. Often I’m eating a whole litre tub of ice cream before bed just to get the calories in
  • jseams1234jseams1234 Posts: 1,152Member Member Posts: 1,152Member Member
    watts6151 wrote: »
    LvlUpStr wrote: »
    watts6151 wrote: »
    watts6151 wrote: »
    I've always found it interesting how actors like the rock and the avengers will claim to eat 5-6k calories per day when adding muscle for a movie and still manage to not gain fat...

    First of all... I know they are not burning it all off everyday in the gym 8hrs per day... Your body just couldn't recover from that, joints muscles etc...

    And even if you could and did burn it all off every day, you wouldn't get any bigger...

    I mean it's possible they just simply starve themselves for 3 months before filming like some bodybuilders do...

    And then there's the obvious ped's... It's a mystery to me honestly

    No mystery, hours of training facilitated by a top noch trainer, dietitian and the best pharmaceutical drugs money can buy

    Depending on the time of the year my bulking cals are often over 6k daily

    Holy smokes... What kind of surplus are you in when bulking?


    Ball park 300-500, the main thing is for me to make sure I’m actually in a decent surplus, nobody actually knows how many calories their burning each day or exactly how many calories they are eating it’s all estimates and best guesses

    Damn, 6000.

    Powerlifter or strongman competitor?


    Just a gym rat focused on physique

    Maintenance in the summer months is around 4000

    Maintenance in winter can often be over5.5k

    It’s early morning starts, attempting to juggle family life, running a business, getting into the gym then making sure the dogs walked,
    Many times in winter I’m walking the dog after 11pm trying to get to bed before midnight. Often I’m eating a whole litre tub of ice cream before bed just to get the calories in

    My go-to is Costco sized bags of Totino's Pizza rolls (pepperoni) and a marinara dipping sauce heavy in olive oil. I can scarf down a plate of those in a few minutes and it's a ton of calories especially if I wash it down with a mass shake. I struggled pretty bad when I was near 5K a day - hated it. Eating anything became a chore and my appetite took such a dive that I was never hungry. I have no idea how you handle such a high maintenance.... ugh.
    edited February 4
  • happysquatterhappysquatter Posts: 91Member, Premium Member Posts: 91Member, Premium Member
    GaryRuns wrote: »
    I have to admit to having some nerd shame but I'm gonna own it anyway. I've been cutting for a while so I created a spreadsheet that figures out my average rate of weight loss over that time period, how many calories in deficit that corresponds to, and then uses that to estimate my maintenance level. It's got me at about 2700.

    I'll see how accurate it is after I finish this $^*! cut and start bulking, assuming I ever finish this cut!

    No shame in that! Nerds end up ruling the world 🤓 after all

    I have my own spreadsheet going back to July when I started down this journey seriously. Daily cals, macros, some micros - weight weekly/bf% and every single rep I’ve ever done : biggest help for me has been correlating good workout or bad workout sessions with the variables that I have access to

    Also, hi all - first post on this thread. I realize it’s no longer about cutting so I feel I might have something relevant to contribute 😎
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