Coronavirus prep
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »extra_medium wrote: »Italy in bad shape. Over 600 dead and over 10k active cases. Hospitals stopped all operations / procedures and overflowing caring for covid patients. Bad scene! We need to be vigilant and people need to stop poo pooing claiming it's just no worse than a regular flu blah blah it is killing people globally.
The regular flu kills people globally
We have the regular flu every year in Italy--it's not on this scale.
https://www.thelocal.it/20200123/flu-outbreak-in-italy-half-a-million-people-struck-down-in-a-week
This was 2019/2020. Almost 3 Million cases reported by Jan 19 and half a million additional in just one week. At the time of the report deaths were approaching 300. I'm not downplaying the dangers of COVID-19 but the only difference in scale (the flu was worse) is mostly in the response to the outbreak.
With this kind of logic don't you think it's strange that the country didn't go into quarantine in January? The Northern part of Italy is now begging the government to shut down public transportation and all shops and stores that are non-essential. I've seen doctors and nurses crying on TV and begging people to stay home and follow government guidelines. If you feel better believing that this is just a flu then good for you.
For people that want to slow the progression of the virus: no non-essential travel (yes, cancel those vacations), stay away from crowded places, if you go out, wash your hands as soon as you enter your home, keep a distance when meeting and greeting people, avoid touching people, be sensible, do what you need to and look around and see if you can help elderly or infirm by shopping for them and keeping in touch by phone so they don't feel abandoned.
This will pass, but please don't tell people that it's "just the flu" and go about business as usual. I've seen what happens when you do that. Stay safe people.
It's not "just the flu," however I am concerned the responses are promoting panic over preparedness.
In the US this so far this flu season:- 34 million illnesses
- 350,000 hospitalizations
- 20,000 deaths
Realistically, we should (all) exercise more caution during flu season. And if this is how we get there, I am happy for the increased awareness of how easily viruses can be passed. However, where we should be promoting calm and rationality, as well as respect for our more vulnerable citizens, I instead see panic. Such as the doctors and nurses crying on TV mentioned above. How does health officials panic-sobbing help keep citizens calm and following procedures meant to help keep everyone safe? It seems akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater instead of asking folks to get up and quickly proceed to the nearest exit.
I feel like you don’t get what’s happening in Italy right now. Doctors are having to decide who lives and who to just let die because there isn’t enough equipment to go around. One specific example I was given - two otherwise healthy 40 year olds need to be on a respirator, only one respirator, so since one of the 40 year olds has two kids, he gets to keep breathing and the other guy doesn’t. Crying about having to watch people in your care die without helping them is not “panic sobbing,” it’s called grief.
Is that a real example? Because if they're deciding between two healthy 40-year-olds, that suggests they've already given up on caring for most of the folks who are 50+.
That was in an opinion piece written with the clear intent to trigger emotions rather than share facts. Just that the healthcare worker even knows enough about the patients to be aware of the number of kids each patient has is an indication that they are not very busy.
ETA: Here it is: https://www.newsweek.com/young-unafraid-coronavirus-pandemic-good-you-now-stop-killing-people-opinion-1491797
I've been trying to tell you the facts--yes it is true. It is not an opinion piece. I live in Italy and the North is overwhelmed. They have to choose which patients they can save. There are not enough respirators. They are trying to airlift some grave cases to hospitals further south.16 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »After everything that has happened in the past few days, how are there still people with their heads so far in the sand that they still think this isn't a big deal?
No, you don't need to panic, but it is highly advisable to prepare for the very real possibility of social distancing measures and quarantines.
FFS.
I'd LOVE to know why, the big guy himself, hasn't allowed himself to be tested after being up close and personal to a Brazilian official who has tested positive. That just irks me to no end. He's NOT God, just because he's the president doesn't mean he's immune to this, although he must be thinking he is???
And now, JUST NOW, he's thinking maybe he'll modify his way of doing things a little bit. Are you effin' kidding me?
Trudeau's wife has it, Orlando Bloom is returning home to self-quarantine, the Hanks have it. It's personal and close to everyone and I kinda wish they'd close our country down like they did Italy. I believe it would get contained a lot more quickly and become a bit more manageable. Maybe I'm wrong, IDK. But it scares me to see its fingers crawling further around the map, closer to my loved ones who are very vulnerable.
Trying not to panic but it's challenging when you hear people aren't testing after being exposed.11 -
The Belgian governement decided to close all schools, all restaurants and pubs and to promote homework as much as possible, at least until April 3rd, when our national Easter holiday begins. This means that schools will stay closed for at least 5 weeks in total.
Supermarkets and pharmacies stay open, but other shops are closed during the weekend.
All events are cancelled.
This is not a lockdown (yet), but important - and in my view very necessary - actions that bring the whole country to a standstill. The economic consequences are massive, but it will be even more dramatic if we don't do act now.
Fyi: Belgium is a very small country wedged between France, Germany and the Netherlands
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Who would have thunk it!? Meaningful(ish) sentences from Google Translate!
@Minion_training_program said (according to Google Translate): "I completely agree to take a preventive approach, instead of waiting and later concluding that you should have taken action earlier. Economically, this is a blow, but if the virus can spread more and more, it will be even more harmful in the long term. Here in the Netherlands, more measures are now being taken, but schools just keep open, use common sense, and you don't feel fit, just don't go to work, school, or really just don't go outside."12 -
Who would have thunk it!? Meaningful(ish) sentences from Google Translate!
@Minion_training_program said (according to Google Translate): "I completely agree to take a preventive approach, instead of waiting and later concluding that you should have taken action earlier. Economically, this is a blow, but if the virus can spread more and more, it will be even more harmful in the long term. Here in the Netherlands, more measures are now being taken, but schools just keep open, use common sense, and you don't feel fit, just don't go to work, school, or really just don't go outside."
The problem is that many people seem to have lost their common sense. Since yesterday, supermarkets are raided (yes, also for TP), leaving the shops with a logistic nightmare. I know eldery who insist to be visited by their grandchildren.
Therefore, I think it is a good intitiative from the government to issue clear, although very restrictive guidelines.
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Who would have thunk it!? Meaningful(ish) sentences from Google Translate!
@Minion_training_program said (according to Google Translate): "I completely agree to take a preventive approach, instead of waiting and later concluding that you should have taken action earlier. Economically, this is a blow, but if the virus can spread more and more, it will be even more harmful in the long term. Here in the Netherlands, more measures are now being taken, but schools just keep open, use common sense, and you don't feel fit, just don't go to work, school, or really just don't go outside."
That's a first, lol
Glad it translated well enough for you to understand5 -
snowflake954 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »extra_medium wrote: »Italy in bad shape. Over 600 dead and over 10k active cases. Hospitals stopped all operations / procedures and overflowing caring for covid patients. Bad scene! We need to be vigilant and people need to stop poo pooing claiming it's just no worse than a regular flu blah blah it is killing people globally.
The regular flu kills people globally
We have the regular flu every year in Italy--it's not on this scale.
https://www.thelocal.it/20200123/flu-outbreak-in-italy-half-a-million-people-struck-down-in-a-week
This was 2019/2020. Almost 3 Million cases reported by Jan 19 and half a million additional in just one week. At the time of the report deaths were approaching 300. I'm not downplaying the dangers of COVID-19 but the only difference in scale (the flu was worse) is mostly in the response to the outbreak.
With this kind of logic don't you think it's strange that the country didn't go into quarantine in January? The Northern part of Italy is now begging the government to shut down public transportation and all shops and stores that are non-essential. I've seen doctors and nurses crying on TV and begging people to stay home and follow government guidelines. If you feel better believing that this is just a flu then good for you.
For people that want to slow the progression of the virus: no non-essential travel (yes, cancel those vacations), stay away from crowded places, if you go out, wash your hands as soon as you enter your home, keep a distance when meeting and greeting people, avoid touching people, be sensible, do what you need to and look around and see if you can help elderly or infirm by shopping for them and keeping in touch by phone so they don't feel abandoned.
This will pass, but please don't tell people that it's "just the flu" and go about business as usual. I've seen what happens when you do that. Stay safe people.
It's not "just the flu," however I am concerned the responses are promoting panic over preparedness.
In the US this so far this flu season:- 34 million illnesses
- 350,000 hospitalizations
- 20,000 deaths
Realistically, we should (all) exercise more caution during flu season. And if this is how we get there, I am happy for the increased awareness of how easily viruses can be passed. However, where we should be promoting calm and rationality, as well as respect for our more vulnerable citizens, I instead see panic. Such as the doctors and nurses crying on TV mentioned above. How does health officials panic-sobbing help keep citizens calm and following procedures meant to help keep everyone safe? It seems akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater instead of asking folks to get up and quickly proceed to the nearest exit.
You don't know the Italians. They are not used to pulling together as a people for various historical reasons that I won't go into here. They are however, extremely generous and loving. If you can persuade them that there is great suffering they will do whatever they can to help. I am seeing them working together now as never before. They are seriously going to stop this. I hope my fellow Americans will do the same. If buying hoards of TP will get them moving in the right direction--so be it.
Putting others into a position of being unable to secure sanitary items, actually worsens a situation instead of, bettering it.5 -
The speed with which the research community is moving on this is really kind of inspirational. We are capable of so much when something like this forces us to put all our other crap aside.
I've been concerned in the US because the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hit the ground running while our Federal Govt wrung their hands for a month and said it would go away. I think private billionaires will end up doing more for us, unfortunately, than the CDC has thus far. It's incredibly frustrating to see them hiring on Linkedin the next day (Bill and Melinda Gates) and we debated for three weeks on an 8B bill to fund it. It has already cost the economy 4 Trillion as of yesterday.
This reminds me of when the Corp of Engineers didn't want to spend 1B on a levy before Hurricane Catrina hit New Orleans, which would have protected the city.
CNN was just showing our "curve" -- it looks a heck of a lot more like Italy's or Iran's (the two worst hit so far) than Taiwan or S Korea, where they quickly contained it with testing.
Our R&D is better than anyones, I just don't see it helping in time for the first wave.
Dewine (the GOP governor of Ohio) is about to come on and explain why they are taking such drastic social distancing measures now. Delta hub flies through Cincy from all over the US. It wouldn't surprise me, at all, if it's the hardest hit there.3 -
Where do bidets fall on the civilisation continuum? I'm thinking bidet > toilet paper > newspaper > corncobs (but really, isn't anything beyond poison oak/ivy/sumac greater than a corncob??)@earlnabby Having an issue isolating the quote, but your comment made me think of this:
https://www.wdrb.com/news/national/the-psychology-behind-why-toilet-paper-of-all-things-is/article_277db5d4-6255-11ea-a9a5-cb183ea659db.html
That was interesting. Still didn't answer the question of why toilet paper. This is not a new thing as those of us who live in the frozen north know well.
I just figure it's one of those things that separates us from the animals.
I think somebody else mentioned that early on in the thread... it's the mark of civilized society.
Bidet > Charmin Ultrasoft Mega > Other consumer TP > commercial TP which is all that's now available in stores near me > newspaper > moss (early medieval) > corncob > left hand
Charmin, means that dryer lint's also an option!0 -
I went into a Walmart yesterday. People had stripped the aisle with paper goods -- toilet paper and paper towels -- so the shelves were empty from the floor to the ceiling. Unbelievable. After I left, I wished I'd taken a photo.
I also saw a man a few days ago buying 18 containers of Clorox wipes. One man. He's either hoarding it or reselling it on Craigslist or Amazon. Absolutely selfish either way.13 -
DecadeDuchess wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »extra_medium wrote: »Italy in bad shape. Over 600 dead and over 10k active cases. Hospitals stopped all operations / procedures and overflowing caring for covid patients. Bad scene! We need to be vigilant and people need to stop poo pooing claiming it's just no worse than a regular flu blah blah it is killing people globally.
The regular flu kills people globally
We have the regular flu every year in Italy--it's not on this scale.
https://www.thelocal.it/20200123/flu-outbreak-in-italy-half-a-million-people-struck-down-in-a-week
This was 2019/2020. Almost 3 Million cases reported by Jan 19 and half a million additional in just one week. At the time of the report deaths were approaching 300. I'm not downplaying the dangers of COVID-19 but the only difference in scale (the flu was worse) is mostly in the response to the outbreak.
With this kind of logic don't you think it's strange that the country didn't go into quarantine in January? The Northern part of Italy is now begging the government to shut down public transportation and all shops and stores that are non-essential. I've seen doctors and nurses crying on TV and begging people to stay home and follow government guidelines. If you feel better believing that this is just a flu then good for you.
For people that want to slow the progression of the virus: no non-essential travel (yes, cancel those vacations), stay away from crowded places, if you go out, wash your hands as soon as you enter your home, keep a distance when meeting and greeting people, avoid touching people, be sensible, do what you need to and look around and see if you can help elderly or infirm by shopping for them and keeping in touch by phone so they don't feel abandoned.
This will pass, but please don't tell people that it's "just the flu" and go about business as usual. I've seen what happens when you do that. Stay safe people.
It's not "just the flu," however I am concerned the responses are promoting panic over preparedness.
In the US this so far this flu season:- 34 million illnesses
- 350,000 hospitalizations
- 20,000 deaths
Realistically, we should (all) exercise more caution during flu season. And if this is how we get there, I am happy for the increased awareness of how easily viruses can be passed. However, where we should be promoting calm and rationality, as well as respect for our more vulnerable citizens, I instead see panic. Such as the doctors and nurses crying on TV mentioned above. How does health officials panic-sobbing help keep citizens calm and following procedures meant to help keep everyone safe? It seems akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater instead of asking folks to get up and quickly proceed to the nearest exit.
You don't know the Italians. They are not used to pulling together as a people for various historical reasons that I won't go into here. They are however, extremely generous and loving. If you can persuade them that there is great suffering they will do whatever they can to help. I am seeing them working together now as never before. They are seriously going to stop this. I hope my fellow Americans will do the same. If buying hoards of TP will get them moving in the right direction--so be it.
Putting others into a position of being unable to secure sanitary items, actually worsens a situation instead of, bettering it.
Isn't that what I said?2 -
I went into a Walmart yesterday. People had stripped the aisle with paper goods -- toilet paper and paper towels -- so the shelves were empty from the floor to the ceiling. Unbelievable. After I left, I wished I'd taken a photo.
I also saw a man a few days ago buying 18 containers of Clorox wipes. One man. He's either hoarding it or reselling it on Craigslist or Amazon. Absolutely selfish either way.
The Krogers near me have had signs posted since last week that they were limiting purchases of paper goods, anti-bacterial wipes, etc to 5 per customer. That wouldn't prevent someone from making multiple trips to get as much as they could, however.6 -
For anyone in an individualistic culture like America it is time to think collectively. What is good for all is good for you. It is more important that supplies are readily available to everyone so that no one is forced to break a quarantine for something like toilet paper. Protecting everyone is protecting yourself. If the number of cases in your area explodes and it overwhelms medical facilities you may have trouble getting treated for something that could be minor unless it goes untreated.20
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I went into a Walmart yesterday. People had stripped the aisle with paper goods -- toilet paper and paper towels -- so the shelves were empty from the floor to the ceiling. Unbelievable. After I left, I wished I'd taken a photo.
I also saw a man a few days ago buying 18 containers of Clorox wipes. One man. He's either hoarding it or reselling it on Craigslist or Amazon. Absolutely selfish either way.
I don't know if this might help or not, but Thrive Market still had toilet paper yesterday. You could also buy direct from Georgia Pacific (they had an add on Facebook with free shipping). If you can find bleach online, and paper towels, use that. Tea Tree Oil is also a great, natural antiseptic, though I'm not sure how well it works with this virus. There is a massage supply company that had gallons of hand sanitizer available last week. Bulkapothecary.com I think. They said they have production lines open 24/7 right now to try to keep up with demand. But don't hoard. Get enough for you and your family for a few weeks. That's it. I had to get more TP and it's no where to be found in town, so desparate times require...3 -
To bring a touch of levity, I plan to greet my dinner guests at the door like this tomorrow:
I happen to have these for when I make some of my personal care stuff. Some of the powders are super fine and shouldn't be breathed in. Couldn't find the one that is mint green with little bunnies.
We have already discussed that I will be checking bags as they leave to make sure TP isn't leaving the house. They can have my hand sanitizer, I rarely use it.14 -
Michigan governor ordered all K-12 schools in Michigan closed. 12 presumptive-positive cases in various parts of the state, one believed to be community spread, rest have traveled. (Presumptive positive seems to nean a local test was positive, being sent for CDC confirmation.)
Some internet provider(s) are offering a free 30-day internet package to low-income families with school age children, but no internet. Don't know if strings attached - just saw announcements.
ETA: U-Haul is offering 30 days free self-storage to college students displaced by school closures.8 -
Today in Italy we had a delivery from China. They arrived with 9 of their COV19 experts and bales of masks and respirators. The EU isn't doing much for us--especially the European Bank.
While I was in line waiting to enter the grocery store (45 min, I got there before they opened, but there was already a line half a block long). I was interviewed by French TV. I told them they shouldn't be voting on Sunday. They responded that precautions were being taken and the Americans are worse in this crisis. They'll learn.
Italian TV just showed buildings with courtyards and the inhabitants all standing in their windows and singing together. There's a lot of solidarity. We have many programs for different age levels on now to entertain while homebound. Museums are giving virtual visits of their wonders. tourvirtuale.museicapitolini.org. tourvirtuale.mercatiditraiano.it. tourvirtuale.arapacis.it. www.romartguide.it
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MikePfirrman wrote: »I went into a Walmart yesterday. People had stripped the aisle with paper goods -- toilet paper and paper towels -- so the shelves were empty from the floor to the ceiling. Unbelievable. After I left, I wished I'd taken a photo.
I also saw a man a few days ago buying 18 containers of Clorox wipes. One man. He's either hoarding it or reselling it on Craigslist or Amazon. Absolutely selfish either way.
I don't know if this might help or not, but Thrive Market still had toilet paper yesterday. You could also buy direct from Georgia Pacific (they had an add on Facebook with free shipping). If you can find bleach online, and paper towels, use that. Tea Tree Oil is also a great, natural antiseptic, though I'm not sure how well it works with this virus. There is a massage supply company that had gallons of hand sanitizer available last week. Bulkapothecary.com I think. They said they have production lines open 24/7 right now to try to keep up with demand. But don't hoard. Get enough for you and your family for a few weeks. That's it. I had to get more TP and it's no where to be found in town, so desparate times require...
Thanks for the info. I live in a tiny tourist town with a Walmart, two grocery stores, and two drugstores.
Toilet paper frenzy: people are asking the Walmart when their supply trucks will arrive so they can be there when the pallets are taken off the truck and the supplies go on the shelves.
You can also order their stuff online and pick it up in the store the next day, unless the website says they're out (meaning their warehouse is out) -- I haven't tried online ordering. I'm okay with supplies myself, but wonder about the future since people are panicking and stripping the shelves.
Hand sanitizer: None in town. The type of alcohol you can find in pharmacies is also gone from the shelves. People are making their own hand sanitizer from alcohol and aloe vera. I believe washing your hands with hot soapy water is just as good -- but not for cleaning surfaces.1 -
I went into a Walmart yesterday. People had stripped the aisle with paper goods -- toilet paper and paper towels -- so the shelves were empty from the floor to the ceiling. Unbelievable. After I left, I wished I'd taken a photo.
I also saw a man a few days ago buying 18 containers of Clorox wipes. One man. He's either hoarding it or reselling it on Craigslist or Amazon. Absolutely selfish either way.
The Krogers near me have had signs posted since last week that they were limiting purchases of paper goods, anti-bacterial wipes, etc to 5 per customer. That wouldn't prevent someone from making multiple trips to get as much as they could, however.
Absolutely agree. Supplies should be limited. Also agree how you would monitor people making multiple trips -- it would be unlikely that any store could do that. People are selfish, that's the bottom line.5 -
snowflake954 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »extra_medium wrote: »Italy in bad shape. Over 600 dead and over 10k active cases. Hospitals stopped all operations / procedures and overflowing caring for covid patients. Bad scene! We need to be vigilant and people need to stop poo pooing claiming it's just no worse than a regular flu blah blah it is killing people globally.
The regular flu kills people globally
We have the regular flu every year in Italy--it's not on this scale.
https://www.thelocal.it/20200123/flu-outbreak-in-italy-half-a-million-people-struck-down-in-a-week
This was 2019/2020. Almost 3 Million cases reported by Jan 19 and half a million additional in just one week. At the time of the report deaths were approaching 300. I'm not downplaying the dangers of COVID-19 but the only difference in scale (the flu was worse) is mostly in the response to the outbreak.
With this kind of logic don't you think it's strange that the country didn't go into quarantine in January? The Northern part of Italy is now begging the government to shut down public transportation and all shops and stores that are non-essential. I've seen doctors and nurses crying on TV and begging people to stay home and follow government guidelines. If you feel better believing that this is just a flu then good for you.
For people that want to slow the progression of the virus: no non-essential travel (yes, cancel those vacations), stay away from crowded places, if you go out, wash your hands as soon as you enter your home, keep a distance when meeting and greeting people, avoid touching people, be sensible, do what you need to and look around and see if you can help elderly or infirm by shopping for them and keeping in touch by phone so they don't feel abandoned.
This will pass, but please don't tell people that it's "just the flu" and go about business as usual. I've seen what happens when you do that. Stay safe people.
It's not "just the flu," however I am concerned the responses are promoting panic over preparedness.
In the US this so far this flu season:- 34 million illnesses
- 350,000 hospitalizations
- 20,000 deaths
Realistically, we should (all) exercise more caution during flu season. And if this is how we get there, I am happy for the increased awareness of how easily viruses can be passed. However, where we should be promoting calm and rationality, as well as respect for our more vulnerable citizens, I instead see panic. Such as the doctors and nurses crying on TV mentioned above. How does health officials panic-sobbing help keep citizens calm and following procedures meant to help keep everyone safe? It seems akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater instead of asking folks to get up and quickly proceed to the nearest exit.
I feel like you don’t get what’s happening in Italy right now. Doctors are having to decide who lives and who to just let die because there isn’t enough equipment to go around. One specific example I was given - two otherwise healthy 40 year olds need to be on a respirator, only one respirator, so since one of the 40 year olds has two kids, he gets to keep breathing and the other guy doesn’t. Crying about having to watch people in your care die without helping them is not “panic sobbing,” it’s called grief.
Is that a real example? Because if they're deciding between two healthy 40-year-olds, that suggests they've already given up on caring for most of the folks who are 50+.
Unfortunately yes..that's why doctors and nurses are not only tired but stressed out--hence breaking up on interviews. News this morning says 50 doctors up North are infected. For those not following --this is Italy.
Thanks for all your reporting from the front. I don't understand how people can keep saying covid 19 isn't a big deal, as though China and Italy didn't go from relatively few cases like we have now in the U.S. to widespread illness and many people dead in just a matter of weeks.15
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