Intermittent fasting

twelstand wrote: »

NovusDies wrote: »

twelstand wrote: »

hey,

yeah i do intermittent fasting, i generally stop eating around 20:00 hours and start again at 1200. the only things i consume during this time is plain water after 20:00 and black coffee with no sugar or milk after i wake up. i find this works very well but they key to being successful for me is the food i consume during eating hours. The biggest tip however i can give you is to make sure that with your dinner in the afternoon/evening, it consists of no lower than 50 percent carbs as they are the main source of energy your body uses and it will go to your carbs first for energy use. if you lower your suggested carb intake for the day your body will find it much harder during fasting and will become very tired a lot quicker. They do however need to be the right type of carbs, these would be complex instead of refined or simple. Complex carbs consist of potato, wholegrain pastas rice and breads. complex carbs are digested by your body slowly over time, helping you to stay full and keeping hunger at bay plus giving your body energy gradually. refined carbs (white pasta and rice) have largely been stripped of anything beneficial to your body and simple carbs (milk,cookies, cakes etc) are digested by your body quickly, meaning you feel hungry quicker and can cause a sugar spike as carbs are where your sugar intake comes from. sorry for the long response, i found it easier to stick to when i understood the nutrition side a bit more.

Your body can use protein, fat, carbs, and alcohol as energy. What satiates one person may not work for another. I ate moderately low carb through most of my weight loss and had nearly effortless hunger control even when eating only one meal a day. Now that my activity level is much higher one meal a day and moderate carb do not work for me as well.

yes you are completely correct with that, however my way of thinking is that your body uses carbs first to fuel itself, followed by fat and then protein. i would personally use complex slow digesting carbs to fuel my body so that my muscles are protected from protein being used further down the line. i admit that i dont always meet 50 percent of carbs but when i do i try to use healthier carbs. but of course everyones bodies are different so people react to it differently.

Your understanding is not completely accurate. At rest and at all lower intensity activities the bodies primary fuel source is fat. As the intensity of activities increases, more glucose is used. If you eat adequate protein, there is no issue with your muscles being protected further down the line. You can follow whatever you prefer, but these prescriptions are largely unnecessary for someone who eats a balanced diet with adequate protein. It is really superfluous dietary manipulation.

twelstand wrote: »

ccrdragon wrote: »

Yes, IF can provide a framework for controlling the calories that you consume. I have skipped breakfast at least 5 days a week and more often 7 days a week for probably 20 years. IF is not magical as it does not cause weight loss on it's own - I have gained weight with this eating schedule, I have maintained my weight with this eating schedule and I have gained weight with this eating schedule.

twelstand wrote: »

hey,

yeah i do intermittent fasting, i generally stop eating around 20:00 hours and start again at 1200. the only things i consume during this time is plain water after 20:00 and black coffee with no sugar or milk after i wake up. i find this works very well but they key to being successful for me is the food i consume during eating hours. The biggest tip however i can give you is to make sure that with your dinner in the afternoon/evening, it consists of no lower than 50 percent carbs as they are the main source of energy your body uses and it will go to your carbs first for energy use. if you lower your suggested carb intake for the day your body will find it much harder during fasting and will become very tired a lot quicker. They do however need to be the right type of carbs, these would be complex instead of refined or simple. Complex carbs consist of potato, wholegrain pastas rice and breads. complex carbs are digested by your body slowly over time, helping you to stay full and keeping hunger at bay plus giving your body energy gradually. refined carbs (white pasta and rice) have largely been stripped of anything beneficial to your body and simple carbs (milk,cookies, cakes etc) are digested by your body quickly, meaning you feel hungry quicker and can cause a sugar spike as carbs are where your sugar intake comes from. sorry for the long response, i found it easier to stick to when i understood the nutrition side a bit more.

Some of this may be true for you, but is not universally true...
Specifically - I don't eat a lot of carbs so I haven't eaten a meal in the last 6 weeks that had 50% carbs and I haven't had any issues eating IF.

Also, the 'right type' of carbs is complete nonsense. Look up the nutritional info on white rice/white pasta - there is very little if no difference to their 'brown' counterparts. Cookies, milk (not a carb in the first place) and cake are all complex carbs (anything that contains wheat is by definition a complex carb). The icing may be a simple sugar/carb, but even that is moot since the mix of the rest of the carbs will slow done the digestion process.

Yes i understand what you are saying to a certain degree. when it comes to wheat, whole grain is classed as a complex carb and white is classed as a simple carb. majority of cakes and cookies are prepared using white.
milk is classed generally as carb as per 100ml of skimmed milk as an example, there is 1 g of fat, 3g of protein and 5g of carbs, all of which is sugar and 0 dietary fibre.
with pasta and rice, though prepared the same way wholegrain is higher in minerals vitamins and complex carbs. many of these have been stripped in the making of pasta and rice that is white.
i understand what you are saying and thank you for your feedback, i am always trying to learn and expand my knowledge.

Refined grains are still starches, which are complex carbohydrates.

https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/nutrition-basics/carbohydrates

twelstand wrote: »

I'd never at like to say to everyone that what I said was only in my opinion and not something that should definitely be followed. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I stated what I did as this is what has worked for.

The definition of complex and simple carbs isn't an opinion.
Suggest you do a little research.

You are way off on your ideas about energy usage too. Carbs and fat aren't used the way you think they are.
While sleeping (or other low intensity activity) fat is the predominant energy source, my personal point where the blend of carbs and fats used during exercise hits 50/50 is cycling at about 15mph. Over that carbs become predominant and my body really doesn't care if those carbs originally came from simple or complex carbs.

ttpr wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

ttpr wrote: »

twelstand wrote: »

hey,

The biggest tip however i can give you is to make sure that with your dinner in the afternoon/evening, it consists of no lower than 50 percent carbs as they are the main source of energy your body uses and it will go to your carbs first for energy use.

I can't eat 50% carbs and lose weight. I mostly follow a ketogenic low carb, high fat and moderate protein intake diet. If you don't eat carbs then your body has no choice but to burn fat for fuel. I also believe that most carbs are the worst thing you can eat, especially when diabetes runs in my family. You should read the diabetes code and the obesity code by dr Jason Fung. It is absolutely eye opening.

I get at least 50% of my calories from carbohydrates, things like broccoli, lentils, peppers, oats, greens, black beans, and cabbage. I certainly don't think you're obligated to eat these foods if you don't want them, but I don't understand how they're the worst things I can eat. And if Jason Fung is telling people they are, then I would love to know how he is drawing that conclusion.

i said MOST carbs. But yes beans, oats and lentils are in that bad group because they are a starch. Vegetables however are not. I eat a TON of vegetables, my meals are atleast 50% to 75% vegetables. Legumes also create a inflammatory response in your body, so do all grains.

Beans and grains are heavily associated with the diets in the "blue zones," where people live longer than usual. You may choose to believe they live longer *despite* the fact that they frequently eat these foods, but there is no good indication that these foods are harmful.

I don't know what you mean by "most carbohydrates" being harmful while also eating a diet of 75% vegetables (but also somehow being ketogenic). If 75% of your calories are coming from vegetables, you're eating mostly carbohydrates.

twelstand wrote: »

mmapags wrote: »

twelstand wrote: »

I'd never at like to say to everyone that what I said was only in my opinion and not something that should definitely be followed. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I stated what I did as this is what has worked for.

You are presenting your opinions as prescriptive recommendations and you've had to walk a couple of them back. You may want to reconsider your approach and consider there are some members here with extensive experience and knowledge of nutrition and physiology.

If I have come across in that way I do apologise as it was never intended to be a you must do this. I understand that there are people with a lot of knowledge and experience, I do still stand by some of the things I have said however though I am still learning. No offence intended, I have now been made to feel like an idiot with zero knowledge so won't post on the community again. Hope you are keeping well

How you feel and what you decide to do are certainly up to you. But I am going to suggest a different approach.

You got some pretty consistent feedback based on the approach and tone of your posts. Instead of withdrawing, adjust the approach to one of making it clear you are offering opinions and why. And then be ready to consider new information as part of an ongoing growth process.

Like you, when I first came to this community lo those many years ago, I had some off kilter ideas that I had "been taught". I too received some pretty clear and direct feedback and it was not always delivered as gently and diplomatically as what you received. Some if it was downright harsh.

But, I chose to spend time researching and recognizing people who were a good source of knowledge and resources and seeking out their input. I learned a lot. Most of what I know today. I'm paraphrasing a saying I once heard. The most important things to learn are the things you learn after you thought you already knew something.

Food for thought.

ttpr wrote: »

I don't actually think you are familiar with it otherwise you'd know that vegetables are not 100% carbs... which is what you're thinking. I can turn those grams into percentage if you'd like. Those vegetables get a good soaking of organic butter, and the protein portion is about 5 or 6 oz sometimes more depending what it is, usually cooked in fat or a high fat sauce. My plate may be 75% vegetables by mass but the macro percentage is 50 or more % fats 30% protein and between 10 and 20% carbs. So yes it does work.

I can believe that your plate is 75% vegetable (for meals, not snacks, as you said), especially as keto is otherwise a low volume diet, so that might not even take a particular large amount of veg, and because we don't know what percentage of your cals are from what you are calling meals vs. what you are calling snacks.

It seemed as if you were making a claim about total cals, and it was clear that was what Jane was taking issue with. For example, let's assume 1600 cals, 50% from broccoli (note: 50%, not 75%). That would require 2352 g of broccoli, and come to 95 g of net carbs.

Personally, if you are making sure your plates are 75% veg for meals and getting most of your cals from meals vs. snacks (so that 75% number is not distorted), I commend you for doing a much healthier version of keto than some do. I tried it for a while (quit because I missed fruit, found I was eating more meat than I prefer to to meet my protein goals, don't really like eating that much fat, and didn't get the point of cutting out healthy and high fiber foods like beans and lentils, but also other whole food carbs like whole grains, potatoes and sweet potatoes, peas, etc.).

Anyway, when I did keto, I tried to keep to 35 g net carbs (about 60 total), and although I got carbs only from veg, a serving of nuts or seeds, and occasional full fat greek yogurt or cottage cheese -- I did find I had to cut out fruit -- I still was having to cut back on non starchy veg from what I normally prefer (which admittedly is a lot). However, that it wasn't for me, and wasn't, IMO, healthier than my preferred diet, does not mean it can't be a healthy way to eat and good for others.

It's just wrong to claim carbs are bad for people in general given all the evidence to the contrary.

Fung is not well-respected by most on this board, and there have been many posts explaining why.