What are some of your unpopular opinions about food?
Replies
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pancakerunner wrote: »
Regarding my initial point, that is just my inner conspiracy-theorist. Put the pieces together and it makes sense, though. The nutritionists and medical experts promoting this idea are funded by the food, agricultural and pharmaceutical industries. Of course eating everything in moderation is okay, because if it wasn't, who would be buying the processed snacks? By "processed" I generally mean foods that are made with industrial seed oils, wheat and sugar.
Per my second point, I am definitely not an expert on the subject. BUT it's about the cumulative effect of repetitive glycation and insulin production and it's negative influence on metabolic and hormonal health. Another thing to note is the impact of polyunsaturated fats (seed oils) on your cells' phospholipid bilayer. It takes 2+ years to get these out of your system. Repeated exposure to these inflammatory foods (moderation!) results in chronic inflammation and less-than-optimal health.
Some more on PUFA and inflammation.- https://www.bulletproof.com/diet/healthy-eating/good-fats/
- https://www.bulletproof.com/diet/healthy-eating/what-is-canola-oil/
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174995/
Dr. Anthony Guston is a great resource on industrial seed oils and linoleic acid/inflammation. As is Tucker Goodrich. http://yelling-stop.blogspot.com/
I encourage you to check out Nora Gedguadas' work. She really focuses on a primal diet for optimal health.
Some relevant blogs:- https://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/2-toxic-fats-avoid-costs/
- https://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/top-10-nutritional-mistakes/
Dr. Cate Shanahan is another wealth of knowledge!
https://drcate.com/
This is super out there, but really good points on the world of dietetics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b0devs4J3s
I appreciate your taking the time to share sources, and I respect that you do have a considered basis for your opinion.
For my part, I think it's a big leap from "it's good to consider Omega-3 to Omega-6 balance" (which I think is true) or even "people in developed countries overconsume O-6s to their detriment" (probably true, with the observation that oil overconsumption in general may not be ideal) to "plant oils are poison" and another big leap from there to the idea that "for optimal health, even just a bit of processed foods will add up."
I didn't read all of every word, but I did read, and try to be fair. It was challenging at times, because some of the arguments are outrageous, frankly. That whole deal about oils as insecticide is one, for example. Pretty much any oil (or soap) has an insecticidal effect: Oils disrupt insects' essential gas exchange by coating them with oil (they don't breathe like we do, basically, so it disrupts their equivalent). It's primarily a physical effect, not a biochemical one. As coatings on the plant surface, oils disrupt insect feeding. That's also a physical effect. (Organic farming uses oils in these ways.)
Do some oils have some biochemical effects on some insects? I'm sure. But I'm not an insect. Bringing that sort of reasoning into an argument is alarmist, not nuanced, and IMO shows a shaky grip on the science (not sorting wheat from chaff). "Did you know it's used in (dangerous or revolting thing X)" is common scare-tactic advocacy. (It makes me think of http://dhmo.org/, frankly.)
There's some very mixed evidence, IMU, that overheated oils can be a problem for humans, and some other things of that "various studies disagree" nature, not persuasive to me. I'm generally in favor of preferring foods that humans have been eating for centuries or millennia, and the processed seed oils are the new kids on the block in that sense. I can see some reason for caution, in science and practice.
There's (what I'd consider to be) truth in some of the points in those sites, but scattershot among things that are IMO exaggerated or inaccurate.
I respect your right to make those conceptual leaps, but I'm not going along all the way on those particular lily-pads, personally.
Peace and good wishes - sincerely.8 -
I appreciate your taking the time to share sources, and I respect that you do have a considered basis for your opinion.
For my part, I think it's a big leap from "it's good to consider Omega-3 to Omega-6 balance" (which I think is true) or even "people in developed countries overconsume O-6s to their detriment" (probably true, with the observation that oil overconsumption in general may not be ideal) to "plant oils are poison" and another big leap from there to the idea that "for optimal health, even just a bit of processed foods will add up."
I didn't read all of every word, but I did read, and try to be fair. It was challenging at times, because some of the arguments are outrageous, frankly. That whole deal about oils as insecticide is one, for example. Pretty much any oil (or soap) has an insecticidal effect: Oils disrupt insects' essential gas exchange by coating them with oil (they don't breathe like we do, basically, so it disrupts their equivalent). It's primarily a physical effect, not a biochemical one. As coatings on the plant surface, oils disrupt insect feeding. That's also a physical effect. (Organic farming uses oils in these ways.)
Do some oils have some biochemical effects on some insects? I'm sure. But I'm not an insect. Bringing that sort of reasoning into an argument is alarmist, not nuanced, and IMO shows a shaky grip on the science (not sorting wheat from chaff). "Did you know it's used in (dangerous or revolting thing X)" is common scare-tactic advocacy. (It makes me think of http://dhmo.org/, frankly.)
There's some very mixed evidence, IMU, that overheated oils can be a problem for humans, and some other things of that "various studies disagree" nature, not persuasive to me. I'm generally in favor of preferring foods that humans have been eating for centuries or millennia, and the processed seed oils are the new kids on the block in that sense. I can see some reason for caution, in science and practice.
There's (what I'd consider to be) truth in some of the points in those sites, but scattershot among things that are IMO exaggerated or inaccurate.
I respect your right to make those conceptual leaps, but I'm not going along all the way on those particular lily-pads, personally.
Peace and good wishes - sincerely.
I appreciate this. And I also want to say that everybody has their own definition of what “optimal healthcare” really is. We all just need to do our part to educate ourselves, be civil to others, and live a life of impact — whatever that may be.1 -
RelCanonical wrote: »Mint gum is gross. Other mint things, like...mints, are tolerable. Mint chocolate things are good. The complicated nature of mint.
Spearmint is gross. Peppermint is good.1 -
pancakerunner wrote: »
I agree that calorie counting is what works for WEIGHT LOSS. But optimal health goes so much further. This is where the idea of "everything in moderation" needs to be thrown out... for optimal health, even just a bit of processed foods will add up.
I feel like we are having this same argument in two threads, but this is a bizarre claim.
There are processed foods I eat that I consider extra healthy. Cottage cheese is one -- I eat it because I love it, but it certainly helps my protein totals. Dried beans and frozen spinach (not in the summer for the latter) are others. Canned tomatoes (out of season tomatoes have no taste, IMO). But setting that aside, and agreeing that one of the benefits of these kinds of foods is time-saving, this was my experience losing weight:
(1) Not calorie counting and simply cutting way down on added fat and starch portions -- losing fast.
(2) Logging at MFP and realizing I was accidentally eating 1000 cals/day. Deciding that for health and sustainability I'd loosen up my diet some. The first thing I did was start adding feta (I do love it) to my omelets, a but more olive oil (processed!) to my veg when cooking, and olives and feta and seeds (not all at the same time) to my salads. I also decided to skip boneless, skinless chicken breast in favor of roasting them skin on, bone in. (The latter is a switch from more to less processed, btw).
Despite adding more processed foods, I lost properly, and I don't believe that in moderation any of this caused poor health (my doctor would agree).
I also do eat restaurant meals about once or twice a week now. The claim that that hurts my health doesn't make much sense (what I eat isn't that different than what one could make at home, although of course higher cal on average than what I tend to cook).4 -
just_Tomek wrote: »
I would disagree. This is not moderation. This is back to the only thing that works, calories counting.
Some people have a smear of peanut butter on their toast and feel satisfied. They are moderating their calories intake by that. I cant do that. Thats why no two moderations are the same.
I would call how you eat -- as described on MFP -- moderation.
So I guess it's just a difference in how we understand the term.
My definition is that eating something in moderation means eating it such that it fits into a calorie appropriate diet (whether one counts or not, I usually don't), and you still have sufficient room for good nutrition in the course of a day or week.2 -
LOL
And really, pancakerunner, this is kind of the source of my reaction. You go on and on about super processed kids foods (IMO) that I didn't even like as a kid and then lecture everyone on "processed foods" generally, as if they weren't totally varied and as if overall diet wasn't what mattered.
I do agree to some extend about processed seed oils and omega 6 to 3 balance (omega 3s are a big thing for me and the only oils I use are olive, avocado, and coconut -- all processed, as is butter). When I log it's at Cron to see nutrients, and I especially care about fiber (which I get only from natural sources), potassium, and omega 3, but like to hit all my nutrients when logging.
So no, I don't think occasional processed foods inherently have some bad effect on health. I think most should focus on eating more veg and the like more than what they don't eat. If you are eating tons of pop tarts or a pint of Halo Top or what not a day, I'd say that's not really moderation (although the Halo Top is low cal, of course).
Claiming one must eat 100% clean (and not treats in moderation, whatever "treats" means to you, to me it definitely includes good cheese) to be healthy is not supported by anything credible and likely makes things harder for many (unnecessarily so).4 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »
Spearmint is gross. Peppermint is good.
This is true.0 -
LOL
And really, pancakerunner, this is kind of the source of my reaction. You go on and on about super processed kids foods (IMO) that I didn't even like as a kid and then lecture everyone on "processed foods" generally, as if they weren't totally varied and as if overall diet wasn't what mattered.
I do agree to some extend about processed seed oils and omega 6 to 3 balance (omega 3s are a big thing for me and the only oils I use are olive, avocado, and coconut -- all processed, as is butter). When I log it's at Cron to see nutrients, and I especially care about fiber (which I get only from natural sources), potassium, and omega 3, but like to hit all my nutrients when logging.
So no, I don't think occasional processed foods inherently have some bad effect on health. I think most should focus on eating more veg and the like more than what they don't eat. If you are eating tons of pop tarts or a pint of Halo Top or what not a day, I'd say that's not really moderation (although the Halo Top is low cal, of course).
I'm just really confused because of the disconnect. I don't go claiming that meat is bad and shouldn't be consumed in any amount for optimal health with sources, then start another thread called "show me your favourite grilled meats!" I am not sure what is going on there @pancakerunner maybe you could explain? Why do you say one thing then act in the opposite direction? Just curious.8 -
Going back to unpopular opinions, sweet + salty weirds me out.
I guess I like cheesecake, but that's the only exception...1 -
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LOL
And really, pancakerunner, this is kind of the source of my reaction. You go on and on about super processed kids foods (IMO) that I didn't even like as a kid and then lecture everyone on "processed foods" generally, as if they weren't totally varied and as if overall diet wasn't what mattered.
I do agree to some extend about processed seed oils and omega 6 to 3 balance (omega 3s are a big thing for me and the only oils I use are olive, avocado, and coconut -- all processed, as is butter). When I log it's at Cron to see nutrients, and I especially care about fiber (which I get only from natural sources), potassium, and omega 3, but like to hit all my nutrients when logging.
So no, I don't think occasional processed foods inherently have some bad effect on health. I think most should focus on eating more veg and the like more than what they don't eat. If you are eating tons of pop tarts or a pint of Halo Top or what not a day, I'd say that's not really moderation (although the Halo Top is low cal, of course).
Claiming one must eat 100% clean (and not treats in moderation, whatever "treats" means to you, to me it definitely includes good cheese) to be healthy is not supported by anything credible and likely makes things harder for many (unnecessarily so).
Again, I'm no saint. Just sharing some science and an opinion
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I'm just really confused because of the disconnect. I don't go claiming that meat is bad and shouldn't be consumed in any amount for optimal health with sources, then start another thread called "show me your favourite grilled meats!" I am not sure what is going on there @pancakerunner maybe you could explain? Why do you say one thing then act in the opposite direction? Just curious.
I am simply sharing an opinion and some science that supports it. I do not claim to live or eat this way. But there is credible, and quite extensive, research to back it. Also, I'm not preaching everyone should live this way and am not discrediting others opinions or ways of life.1 -
pancakerunner wrote: »
I am simply sharing an opinion and some science that supports it. I do not claim to live or eat this way. But there is credible, and quite extensive, research to back it. Also, I'm not preaching everyone should live this way and am not discrediting others opinions or ways of life.
Ok no problem I was just curious, it's just interesting to me. But I suppose it's like me saying "don't compare yourself to people on Instagram, it's not healthy" and then I turn around and do that exact thing knowing how awful it is
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pancakerunner wrote: »
I am simply sharing an opinion and some science that supports it. I do not claim to live or eat this way. But there is credible, and quite extensive, research to back it. Also, I'm not preaching everyone should live this way and am not discrediting others opinions or ways of life.
I think that's fine, as a generality,
Still, I agree with others, that when I think of the totality of my impression of you, solely based on what I read on MFP, I tend to think of you as a booster and advocate of processed foods, specifically highly processed and not very nutrient dense ones. In that context, a broad statement like "for optimal health, even just a bit of processed foods will add up" seems to come from out of left field.
What I said in the previous paragraph is 100% just my impression. But I guess I wonder what general message or image you'd really like to be putting out in MFP-world, and whether the totally of your posts has that trajectory.
For clarity: No one has an obligation to come here to be self-consistent, to send what they think are "technically correct" or helpful messages, to avoid using the forum community just to have fun and joke and so forth. If you like to create posts about treats and treat foods just for fun, while also thinking they're dangerous, that's also fine. But I think it would be rational to expect a shocked reaction from others when you suddenly post that they're dangerous.5 -
Oatmeal and bananas. If I had no teeth and lost my senses, it'd make sense.3
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LinkedEmpire wrote: »Oatmeal and bananas. If I had no teeth and lost my senses, it'd make sense.
Do you mean mixing? I do not like bansna in anything, only eaten alone.
Peanut butter on the other hand.......0 -
Do you mean mixing? I do not like bansna in anything, only eaten alone.
Peanut butter on the other hand.......
Do you mean mixing? I do not like bansna in anything, only eaten alone.
Peanut butter on the other hand.......
I'm pretty much the opposite - I wouldn't just consume a banana by itself - ick to me... It has to be either be a pb on toast w/ sliced banana or on oatmeal/banana cake, etc.,0 -
Carbs (along with calories) make a difference, at least for some people.1
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I hate mangoes! And passionfruit, and pawpaw!2
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rosegreen12 wrote: »Carbs (along with calories) make a difference, at least for some people.
I agree from MY experience, period. When I was younger it was different. Now at 47 my body does not do as well with high carb at all. A moderately lower carb, higher in both protein and/ or fat.0 -
dawkson2017 wrote: »I hate mangoes! And passionfruit, and pawpaw!
Same! And dragon fruit. Passion fruit is the absolute worst.0 -
pancakerunner wrote: »
Same! And dragon fruit. Passion fruit is the absolute worst.
Truly amazing to look at and smell, though: Blooms as big as your hand, and fragrant. (Yes, these were at my house.) Total digression on a food thread. Oh, well.
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Truly amazing to look at and smell, though: Blooms as big as your hand, and fragrant. (Yes, these were at my house.) Total digression on a food thread. Oh, well.
Lychee/rambutan and papaya are my favorite tropical fruits.1 -
pancakerunner wrote: »
Lychee/rambutan and papaya are my favorite tropical fruits.
Yeah, fresh lychee, rambutan are good - also the somewhat similar longan. Rambutan is more fun when whole, though.
I'm quite fond of mamey sapote, too, but it's unusual to see them here that are nicely ripe but not rotting.
Guavas are also nice. Some types remind me a little of the Northern wild mayapple fruits, both in appearance and some of the flavor elements.1 -
Yeah, fresh lychee, rambutan are good - also the somewhat similar longan. Rambutan is more fun when whole, though.
I'm quite fond of mamey sapote, too, but it's unusual to see them here that are nicely ripe but not rotting.
Guavas are also nice. Some types remind me a little of the Northern wild mayapple fruits, both in appearance and some of the flavor elements.
I also like permissions... depending on how prepared. Guava is good too! Another one I HATE though is the horned cucumber. awful.0 -
Palm oil is poison.2
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
WHA? No salted caramel? No chocolate-covered pretzels?
Definitely not and no, respectively. I like my sweets sweet and my savories savory ¯\_(ツ)_/¯1 -
Shropshire1959 wrote: »Palm oil is poison.
And how is this?1 -
Peanuts are only good as a butter - as a stand alone but I’m not really a fan...though I like the peanut man...but that’s really it...peanut as a butter and the actual peanut man...well wait I also like it as a brittle...hmmm...I may have to do some more research and continue this later....5
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