Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Face mask or no face mask?
Replies
-
9 -
Will you continue to wear your mask every year during flu season (which also kills hundreds of thousands of people each year), or do you only feel obligated to protect them from the "special" diseases?
edited by a MFP moderator
Hundreds of thousands of people do not die every year from the flu.
Worldwide deaths are certainly in that magnitude so are you talking about just one particular country?
"Influenza remains one of the world’s greatest public health challenges. Every year across the globe, there are an estimated 1 billion cases, of which 3 to 5 million are severe cases, resulting in 290 000 to 650 000 influenza-related respiratory deaths"
Source WHO - https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/11-03-2019-who-launches-new-global-influenza-strategy
I was replying to the statement made in reference to the U.S.0 -
Will you continue to wear your mask every year during flu season (which also kills hundreds of thousands of people each year), or do you only feel obligated to protect them from the "special" diseases?
edited by a MFP moderator
Hundreds of thousands of people do not die every year from the flu.
Worldwide deaths are certainly in that magnitude so are you talking about just one particular country?
"Influenza remains one of the world’s greatest public health challenges. Every year across the globe, there are an estimated 1 billion cases, of which 3 to 5 million are severe cases, resulting in 290 000 to 650 000 influenza-related respiratory deaths"
Source WHO - https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/11-03-2019-who-launches-new-global-influenza-strategy
I was replying to the statement made in reference to the U.S.
Even if we look at worldwide deaths, covid 19 deaths worldwide have surpassed the highest estimates for flu related deaths in a little bit over half the time, and that happened despite lockdowns, mask mandates, some countries not having it as bad as others, closing airports, and all the other measures. Imagine what the numbers would have been if no action was taken.12 -
katyjcrafts wrote: »My friends son is a plain clothes police officer and he was behind someone refusing to wear one and giving the store assistant loads of attitude. He stepped in and said can the person just do what they are asked. He got loads of 'What are u gonna do about it' etc so he got his warrant card and and said he would arrest them. Just a coincidence he happened to be there
Good for him. Unfortunately, this only works where police are willing to do this.
I work in retail and see or hear about crap like this every day when employees remind customers to wear masks -- employees called Nazis, gestapo, told what are you going to do about it while the person walks off, customers deliberately coughing on employees, etc. Tells you a lot about people.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/08/06/new-jersey-woman-assault-staples-store-eg-orig.cnn
1 -
katyjcrafts wrote: »My friends son is a plain clothes police officer and he was behind someone refusing to wear one and giving the store assistant loads of attitude. He stepped in and said can the person just do what they are asked. He got loads of 'What are u gonna do about it' etc so he got his warrant card and and said he would arrest them. Just a coincidence he happened to be there
Good for him. Unfortunately, this only works where police are willing to do this.
I work in retail and see or hear about crap like this every day when employees remind customers to wear masks -- employees called Nazis, gestapo, told what are you going to do about it while the person walks off, customers deliberately coughing on employees, etc. Tells you a lot about people.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/08/06/new-jersey-woman-assault-staples-store-eg-orig.cnn
UGH!!!! People like this need to have the book thrown at them. And they should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.2 -
As a quick note, here's an article comparing excess mortality with official covid death tolls.amusedmonkey wrote: »(...) Even if we look at worldwide deaths, covid 19 deaths worldwide have surpassed the highest estimates for flu related deaths in a little bit over half the time, and that happened despite lockdowns, mask mandates, some countries not having it as bad as others, closing airports, and all the other measures. Imagine what the numbers would have been if no action was taken.
While in developed countries there's a pretty clear correlation between excess deaths and official death tolls, some developing countries might be undercounting (though there are, obviously, other factors).1 -
As a quick note, here's an article comparing excess mortality with official covid death tolls.amusedmonkey wrote: »(...) Even if we look at worldwide deaths, covid 19 deaths worldwide have surpassed the highest estimates for flu related deaths in a little bit over half the time, and that happened despite lockdowns, mask mandates, some countries not having it as bad as others, closing airports, and all the other measures. Imagine what the numbers would have been if no action was taken.
While in developed countries there's a pretty clear correlation between excess deaths and official death tolls, some developing countries might be undercounting (though there are, obviously, other factors).
Yes, I'm aware, but I wanted to give the flu argument all the juice by comparing the highest flu estimates with the current covid 19 confirmed deaths without even mentioning excess mortality, that even at its best it can't even compare. That argument sounded silly when the pandemic started, and it's proven itself silly.3 -
katyjcrafts wrote: »My friends son is a plain clothes police officer and he was behind someone refusing to wear one and giving the store assistant loads of attitude. He stepped in and said can the person just do what they are asked. He got loads of 'What are u gonna do about it' etc so he got his warrant card and and said he would arrest them. Just a coincidence he happened to be there
Good for him. Unfortunately, this only works where police are willing to do this.
I work in retail and see or hear about crap like this every day when employees remind customers to wear masks -- employees called Nazis, gestapo, told what are you going to do about it while the person walks off, customers deliberately coughing on employees, etc. Tells you a lot about people.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/08/06/new-jersey-woman-assault-staples-store-eg-orig.cnn
UGH!!!! People like this need to have the book thrown at them. And they should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.
Seems there are a lot of sick people out there.. in the head I mean. That is disgusting.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Will you continue to wear your mask every year during flu season (which also kills hundreds of thousands of people each year), or do you only feel obligated to protect them from the "special" diseases?
edited by a MFP moderator
Hundreds of thousands of people do not die every year from the flu.
Worldwide deaths are certainly in that magnitude so are you talking about just one particular country?
"Influenza remains one of the world’s greatest public health challenges. Every year across the globe, there are an estimated 1 billion cases, of which 3 to 5 million are severe cases, resulting in 290 000 to 650 000 influenza-related respiratory deaths"
Source WHO - https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/11-03-2019-who-launches-new-global-influenza-strategy
I was replying to the statement made in reference to the U.S.
Even if we look at worldwide deaths, covid 19 deaths worldwide have surpassed the highest estimates for flu related deaths in a little bit over half the time, and that happened despite lockdowns, mask mandates, some countries not having it as bad as others, closing airports, and all the other measures. Imagine what the numbers would have been if no action was taken.
My thoughts exactly. Yet, the federal government remains stagnant. It is disturbing the degree to which the human instinct for survival can be so suppressed.1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Will you continue to wear your mask every year during flu season (which also kills hundreds of thousands of people each year), or do you only feel obligated to protect them from the "special" diseases?
edited by a MFP moderator
Hundreds of thousands of people do not die every year from the flu.
Worldwide deaths are certainly in that magnitude so are you talking about just one particular country?
"Influenza remains one of the world’s greatest public health challenges. Every year across the globe, there are an estimated 1 billion cases, of which 3 to 5 million are severe cases, resulting in 290 000 to 650 000 influenza-related respiratory deaths"
Source WHO - https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/11-03-2019-who-launches-new-global-influenza-strategy
I was replying to the statement made in reference to the U.S.
Even if we look at worldwide deaths, covid 19 deaths worldwide have surpassed the highest estimates for flu related deaths in a little bit over half the time, and that happened despite lockdowns, mask mandates, some countries not having it as bad as others, closing airports, and all the other measures. Imagine what the numbers would have been if no action was taken.
My thoughts exactly. Yet, the federal government remains stagnant. It is disturbing the degree to which the human instinct for survival can be so suppressed.
The human instinct for survival (in a long sweep of history sense) was mostly framed by consideration of the individual doing the surviving, and his/her immediate band of interdependent humans. Theoretical people, ones we don't see and interact with, still don't affect our guts (or actions) in the same way people we know and care about do.
Human webs of interdependency have gotten larger and more complex pretty steadily across history (band => confederation => city/state => nation => global, simplistically). Our guts really haven't kept up. If someone is part of a quite-insulated class, the large death/illness counts for people we don't know are just sad (mostly non-emotional) facts (maybe even considered to be fake or a conspiracy), not an urgent kick in the gut to take action.
Friends and family getting sick and dying has more impact on our individual perception of survival threat. I'm not saying those less affected are uncaring; I'm saying how I think human wiring works, mostly, when it comes to *instinct* for survival.4 -
So, haven't really read most of the comments, so this is not a response to any particular person and more to the folks I've been coming into contact with as a whole. Many of whom have been, well, pretty much terrible to interact with, honestly.
And my thoughts on mask wearing, over the past few months, could be summed up as: wow, do we have some intensely childish, selfish people here in the USA who won't wear masks. (which is pretty much what most of Asia thinks about us, at this point).
Children deny reality because they don't want things to be true.
When lives are literally on the line, anyone who has decided that there's no reason to wear a mask is acting like a child, not a full grown adult, IMO. Because reality doesn't alter just because we don't like it, and covid-19 reality is that masks help slow the spread of this virus. That's it. Research supports this. Real live cases support this. Denying it doesn't make it not true. Trying to insist it's not true because reality is horrible, or it's economically devastating, or because someone we like thinks it's not true, is the act of a child, not an adult.
Another reason it feels like a lot of folks are acting like children here is that children cannot understand that sometimes, we have to do things we don't like because they are good for us and the people around us, and we don't always get praised for them.
Wearing masks sucks. It absolutely does. So does wearing seatbelts and having to purchase stuff from the store instead of just getting to take it for free. But just like we get to teach kids that they Do have to wear seatbelts and they Don't get to just take things that they want without paying for it, we're gonna have to teach them that wearing masks is important, for a while, probably.
We shouldn't have to teach adults this, because they should have already LEARNED this lesson. Adult should know that hey, sometimes people have to do things they don't like, because it's the right thing to do. Like wearing a freaking mask.
And also, doing important things isn't always some you get lots of accolades for. Wearing a mask is not "fighting and dying' for your country. Instead, it's having to put up with the daily irritation of a piece of cloth on your face...for your country.
So no one is going to gush about how mask wearers are so courageous for wearing masks. They don't get first place mask wearing trophies. They just get to know that they helped keep people around them safe.
Like the freaking responsible adults they should be.
Just...the level of selfishness over this entire thing has been both eye-opening and mind-boggling.
19 -
Wear a mask since it is mandated otherwise I would not. I have worked out in the public since it has started and have seen the the trend with people wearing them up until it was mandated. The fall into two groups with little middle ground. Either100% for it or 100% against it. The fear people have of other people in public not wearing a mask is sad. If you are that afraid, please shop online and have it delivered.3
-
thechessking1 wrote: »Wear a mask since it is mandated otherwise I would not. I have worked out in the public since it has started and have seen the the trend with people wearing them up until it was mandated. The fall into two groups with little middle ground. Either100% for it or 100% against it. The fear people have of other people in public not wearing a mask is sad. If you are that afraid, please shop online and have it delivered.
Thanks for being out there. Take care of yourself.2 -
It's those inhaled droplets that cause the risk. The bottomline is that any mask that covers the nose and mouth will benefit you and others.
Risk reduction is the absolute prevention.8 -
The bottom line for me:
Until the virus is under control is this country,the only way we have of getting any measure of control is wearing a mask, washing hands and socially distancing.
Until the virus is under control:
More people will die, more families will find themselves unable to send their kids to school, more kids who may need attention from teachers will fall further behind in their education, more families will struggle to pay their bills cause one of the two working parents will have to stay at home with kids who can't go to schools, more families will be unable to pay their rent and end up evicted, not to mention our national debt will continue to soar as we try to pass measures to keep our economy afloat.
I don't love wearing a mask (I put one on when I leave the house and don't take it off until I get through my door), but I can contribute to the solution, or I can contribute to this virus lingering and endangering others' health and future.
11 -
I wear a mask if I am going to be around other people. I really don't want to be the cause of others getting sick.
I've spent a lot of time in medical settings lately and have been pleased with the mask usage. Takes longer to get in because we have to go through screening, but I'm okay with that.
I really wanted to tell the scheduler I had to sit across from for 40 minutes Friday that her mask was creeping me out. She had put lipstick on the outside of a blue surgical mask. Not like lips, but more like scribbled where her mouth was. It may just be that I had a very stressful day, but it was rather disturbing.6 -
thechessking1 wrote: »Wear a mask since it is mandated otherwise I would not. I have worked out in the public since it has started and have seen the the trend with people wearing them up until it was mandated. The fall into two groups with little middle ground. Either100% for it or 100% against it. The fear people have of other people in public not wearing a mask is sad. If you are that afraid, please shop online and have it delivered.
Very selfish and callous statement, IMOP. However, I wish well.
8 -
thechessking1 wrote: »Wear a mask since it is mandated otherwise I would not. I have worked out in the public since it has started and have seen the the trend with people wearing them up until it was mandated. The fall into two groups with little middle ground. Either100% for it or 100% against it. The fear people have of other people in public not wearing a mask is sad. If you are that afraid, please shop online and have it delivered.
If you are so fragile about your freedom that you can't respect public health recommendations in the middle of a pandemic, please shop online and have it delivered.20 -
thechessking1 wrote: »Wear a mask since it is mandated otherwise I would not. I have worked out in the public since it has started and have seen the the trend with people wearing them up until it was mandated. The fall into two groups with little middle ground. Either100% for it or 100% against it. The fear people have of other people in public not wearing a mask is sad. If you are that afraid, please shop online and have it delivered.
We should not imprison serial killers and we should let them roam the streets. If you're that afraid don't go out. The fear people have of serial killers is sad.16 -
Regarding comments about masks not being effective, in the 1918 epidemic people wore masks made of gauze, but flu transmission was lower where masks wearing was adhered to. If people touch their face more wearing a mask, well, get used to using sanitising gel after each touch!4
-
lynn_glenmont wrote: »thechessking1 wrote: »Wear a mask since it is mandated otherwise I would not. I have worked out in the public since it has started and have seen the the trend with people wearing them up until it was mandated. The fall into two groups with little middle ground. Either100% for it or 100% against it. The fear people have of other people in public not wearing a mask is sad. If you are that afraid, please shop online and have it delivered.
If you are so fragile about your freedom that you can't respect public health recommendations in the middle of a pandemic, please shop online and have it delivered.
^^^ Yes to this comment a hundred times. Thank you.
8 -
Unless everyone properly wears a mask, there is no point.2
-
Some of us can’t get delivery slots and don’t live in cities with loads of shops. What do you want us to do - starve? I have no option but to go out and buy food.lynn_glenmont wrote: »thechessking1 wrote: »Wear a mask since it is mandated otherwise I would not. I have worked out in the public since it has started and have seen the the trend with people wearing them up until it was mandated. The fall into two groups with little middle ground. Either100% for it or 100% against it. The fear people have of other people in public not wearing a mask is sad. If you are that afraid, please shop online and have it delivered.
If you are so fragile about your freedom that you can't respect public health recommendations in the middle of a pandemic, please shop online and have it delivered.
^^^ Yes to this comment a hundred times. Thank you.
Except for cucumbers - my greenhouse is over-run with the blasted things and I need cucumber recipes!
2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »thechessking1 wrote: »Wear a mask since it is mandated otherwise I would not. I have worked out in the public since it has started and have seen the the trend with people wearing them up until it was mandated. The fall into two groups with little middle ground. Either100% for it or 100% against it. The fear people have of other people in public not wearing a mask is sad. If you are that afraid, please shop online and have it delivered.
If you are so fragile about your freedom that you can't respect public health recommendations in the middle of a pandemic, please shop online and have it delivered.
The poster said they wore a mask were it was mandated, otherwise they do not. In my area masks are mandated in public indoor spaces as well as outside when social distancing isn't possible, maybe the same is in their area. I wear one religiously in these cases, not in other cases like when I'm running by myself in my subdivision at 5AM.
3 -
thechessking1 wrote: »Wear a mask since it is mandated otherwise I would not. I have worked out in the public since it has started and have seen the the trend with people wearing them up until it was mandated. The fall into two groups with little middle ground. Either100% for it or 100% against it. The fear people have of other people in public not wearing a mask is sad. If you are that afraid, please shop online and have it delivered.
What's sad is the insistence that those who are concerned with minimizing the risk of others getting ill should withdraw from society and cede it to those who don't care about the impacts of their actions.
If you see someone using a turn signal, do you conclude they live in fear and should stop driving? No, you probably think it's a generally considerate thing to do for public safety.
When I see people acting irresponsible in public, I'm less concerned for MYSELF than I am for all the other people (including the vulnerable) who may be impacted by that and the economic recovery that simply can't begin until we get over the active spread of COVID-19.16 -
Unless everyone properly wears a mask, there is no point.
Can you walk me through how that works? Is COVID19 guaranteed to always transmit to anyone within 6 feet of an unmasked, infected person, to anyone nearby, as in does your perfect mask necessity scenario assume a perfect virus?
Given the virus doesn't always and instantly transmit, I think there's a tendency as one goes from less masks worn less properly to more masks worn properly for transmission to go down. Eventually, somewhere below perfect mask protocol, if transmission is low enough, the whole web collapses. Assuming COVID19 essentially is contagious in a body for 2 weeks, if the transmission rate slows to less than 1 transmission per 2 weeks, you're there. Alternatively, look at it as reproduction for the virus since it is exponential reproduction. If transmission slows to a sick person infects less than 1 other person on average, the virus also eventually disappears.
In between, the slower the transmission rate, the less overwhelmed the healthcare triage system for treating the sick as there are fewer of them. The fewer in triage, the more that do survive, which I think is far from pointless.9 -
-
Theoldguy1 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »thechessking1 wrote: »Wear a mask since it is mandated otherwise I would not. I have worked out in the public since it has started and have seen the the trend with people wearing them up until it was mandated. The fall into two groups with little middle ground. Either100% for it or 100% against it. The fear people have of other people in public not wearing a mask is sad. If you are that afraid, please shop online and have it delivered.
If you are so fragile about your freedom that you can't respect public health recommendations in the middle of a pandemic, please shop online and have it delivered.
The poster said they wore a mask were it was mandated, otherwise they do not. In my area masks are mandated in public indoor spaces as well as outside when social distancing isn't possible, maybe the same is in their area. I wear one religiously in these cases, not in other cases like when I'm running by myself in my subdivision at 5AM.
The poster also said that anyone who doesn't want to be around folks who won't wear masks (or is "afraid" to be, in the poster's loaded language) should stay home.6 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »I wear one when there are local mandates for use and/or businesses that say you need one to enter.
Other than that it's going in my pocket.
This is my position as well.
1
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions