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Face mask or no face mask?
Replies
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laurenq1991 wrote: »slimgirljo15 wrote: »Yeah.. I'm Australian and I'm pretty sure knocking on the door doesnt constitute breaking in..
"The state of disaster declaration will empower the police minister, Lisa Neville, to appoint police as authorised officers. This means when doing spot checks on people’s homes, if the residents did not give permission for them to enter, police will be authorised to enter without a warrant."
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/aug/02/victoria-premier-daniel-andrews-stage-four-coronavirus-lockdown-restrictions-melbourne-covid-19
"Previously Victorian police could not enter people's homes without permission or a warrant or in company with an authorised officer. Under the official state of disaster, police officers can be appointed ‘authorised officers’ and enter homes without a warrant, to enforce self-isolation orders and other restrictions."
http://archive.is/sJGGp
I'm in NSW and as far as I know, door knocking is all that has occurred.
I've not seen police breaking in to anyone's home on tv footage anywhere. So whilst they may have the authority , I've not seen it.
I can really only give insight to my own state though and even then only my local area. I've known of 3 people who were checked on and all that is required is that they answered the door.. no permission by authorities to enter was asked for.7 -
slimgirljo15 wrote: »I'm in NSW and as far as I know, door knocking is all that has occurred.
I've not seen police breaking in to anyone's home on tv footage anywhere. So whilst they may have the authority , I've not seen it.
I can really only give insight to my own state though and even then only my local area. I've known of 3 people who were checked on and all that is required is that they answered the door.. no permission by authorities to enter was asked for.
These restrictions are for Victoria, as it clearly states in the articles, although other parts of Australia have started to implement more restrictions too. Also, just because the news isn't showing it or you haven't heard of it happening, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. There would have to be video footage of it sent to the media in the first place, for one thing.
Also, the police openly admit to smashing peoples' car windows and pulling them out of their vehicles, simply because they wouldn't answer questions about where they were going: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/coronavirus-australia-victoria-melbourne-lockdown-military-police-cases-deaths-a9652996.html
Either way, the police have the authority to break into peoples' homes without a warrant. Even if they're choosing not to do it now, they have the authority to do it at any time. That was passed into law and the Australian people and government allowed it to be passed into law. That's a fact. It annoys me that people are accusing me of lying when they could just go look it up themselves.
I'm also still waiting for someone to explain how exercising outside alone for more than 60 minutes, or driving more than 5km from one's home, increases the risk of contracting COVID-19. Or how the police interrogating people for the crime of daring to step outside alone is supposed to prevent the spread of COVID-19, since that is an extended face-to-face interaction.1 -
Ughh, I had a great post and lost it..I hate that.
Ok, short story from memory..
Your original post said Australia , yet you were talking about Victorian restrictions obviously that was confusing to me.
"Also, just because the news isn't showing it or you haven't heard of it happening, doesn't mean it hasn't happened" True.. but then every news story may not necessarily be the whole truth either.
I did not say it wasn't law , just that I'd not seen or heard of it.
Is that last link UK news story?
Nevermind. If you're spoiling for an argument, you won't get one here. In an effort to not get this thread closed I'll bid you good day.
Btw.. to answer the thread topic, yes.. I wear a face mask15 -
I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
So you believe China deliberately let this virus loose to "spread fear." Who did this in China? The government? Some person or organization there? So far, thousands of people in China have suffered and died from the virus -- before anybody in any other country -- plus China has suffered untold economic damage.
Sounds like a Batman movie to me, to unleash some deadly thing to "spread fear" and seriously harm yourself in the process.
It would benefit all of us to look at how diseases start and spread worldwide. Many viruses jump from animals to humans. Let's stop keeping animals in cramped, filthy conditions, plus let's work to end the wildlife trade. Let bats be bats and live in nature instead of a filthy marketplace -- China does need to clean up its act over that one.
End of my comments here. Good night (or day), people. Stay safe and wear a mask, social distance, and wash your hands.
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Not knowing the exact set up you have, did the face shield move from facial muscles during your sneeze instead of air flow? Maybe try blowing out a candle with it on. Were there visible droplets? If so, might be time for a new mask. As a quilter, there are wide varieties of fabric and even “thick” doesn’t mean tight weave. I have made hundreds of masks at this point, and after wearing four or five different ones I have found that even though the fabric feels similar to my hand, they are vastly different to breathe through.laurenq1991 wrote: »Last week I was wearing both a multi-layered cloth mask (two layers of thick fabric with some kind of filling/batting in between) AND a plastic face shield. I sneezed. The face shield moved up and down due to the volume of air from me sneezing going right through the mask and under the face shield, even though the face shield was covering my entire face. End of story.
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Will you continue to wear your mask every year during flu season (which also kills hundreds of thousands of people each year), or do you only feel obligated to protect them from the "special" diseases?
edited by a MFP moderator
It doesn't, actually. You might want to check your numbers.
I wear gloves outdoors to walk my dogs too
I'm under no illusion that they protect me from Covid, they're to protect my hands from UV exposure. After the bad press chemical sunscreens got last year, I started using UPF clothing instead. But they also do a dandy job of protecting my hands from leash burn if one of the little darlings decides to go off-piste.
You might want to Google "flu deaths per year worldwide ". I know we don't trust the WHO a whole lot right now, but they estimate 250,000 to half a million flu deaths per year. CDC estimates 24,000 to 65,000 per year in the US alone.1 -
"internment camp" in New Zealand - this is for people arriving in the country but for those who have COVID-19 it's probably the same
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMJrWPfhv/1 -
slimgirljo15 wrote: »Your original post said Australia , yet you were talking about Victorian restrictions obviously that was confusing to me.
Victoria is part of Australia, is it not?Nevermind. If you're spoiling for an argument, you won't get one here.
"Spoiling for an argument"? I was just stating my opinion. Other people are the ones who started arguing with me by accusing me of "spreading lies about their country." And then "disagreeing" with my posts that were just posting news articles supporting what I was saying...like what exactly are they "disagreeing" with, the existence of these facts?moonangel12 wrote: »Not knowing the exact set up you have, did the face shield move from facial muscles during your sneeze instead of air flow?
I doubt it because, also, the other day I sneezed while wearing a mask but no face shield, and I felt air come out of the mask. Also, the face shield attaches to the face around the forehead and it usually doesn't move easily from talking, facial expressions, etc.If so, might be time for a new mask. As a quilter, there are wide varieties of fabric and even “thick” doesn’t mean tight weave.
And yet the mask restrictions just say "wear a face covering," regardless of whether it's actually effective. Most people aren't quilters and aren't able to find or make the perfect mask that actually works. Especially as, obviously, you can't try them on or take them out of the package before you buy them. If the multi-layered mask I use doesn't work, probably very few masks on the market do, making this little more than security theater.
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I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
I don't understand how you can declare in one post that we can't know anything for sure about infection rates or fatalities, but then confidently state that the virus was deliberately created in China. Obviously you do think SOME sources of information are reliable, you just prefer ones that are pushing fringe theories and encouraging people to ignore preventative measures.14 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
I don't understand how you can declare in one post that we can't know anything for sure about infection rates or fatalities, but then confidently state that the virus was deliberately created in China. Obviously you do think SOME sources of information are reliable, you just prefer ones that are pushing fringe theories and encouraging people to ignore preventative measures.
I won’t speak for others but for me it’s not a matter of preference, it’s a matter of evaluating reliability and validity. I personally do not trust most news sources regardless of their opinions. Yes, I think most news sources report opinions and not unbiased news.
Everything is traceable. If you know what OSINT sources are available and are reliable, know what to look for, how to analyze the minutia and weed out what is not relevant, correlate and taxonomize the remaining findings, and some other very cool stuff, attribution begins to appear and the entire story unfolds. I’m not aware of any media sources which have explained this to the general public but this is possible for anyone to do with the right skill set and resources.0 -
I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
I don't understand how you can declare in one post that we can't know anything for sure about infection rates or fatalities, but then confidently state that the virus was deliberately created in China. Obviously you do think SOME sources of information are reliable, you just prefer ones that are pushing fringe theories and encouraging people to ignore preventative measures.
I won’t speak for others but for me it’s not a matter of preference, it’s a matter of evaluating reliability and validity. I personally do not trust most news sources regardless of their opinions. Yes, I think most news sources report opinions and not unbiased news.
Everything is traceable. If you know what OSINT sources are available and are reliable, know what to look for, how to analyze the minutia and weed out what is not relevant, correlate and taxonomize the remaining findings, and some other very cool stuff, attribution begins to appear and the entire story unfolds. I’m not aware of any media sources which have explained this to the general public but this is possible for anyone to do with the right skill set and resources.
We're talking about a specific set of claims -- that the virus was created in China to deliberately infect people, that it is being used by those in positions of power in the US to consolidate power, and that we cannot trust any of the numbers of people infected or who have died due to it. Do you find the news sources putting forward these claims to be especially reliable and valid?
If the answer is "I learned it all through open-source intelligence," okay . . . what sources are those and why are they more valid than other sources reporting different information? The decision to "weed out what isn't relevant" isn't one that is made in a vacuum, it can absolutely involve biases, pre-made decisions, and preferences.
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While using the equipment? No. There is no reason to at my gym. I go at 4 am, there is usually no one there. When walking around in the locker rooms where I might get closer to people? Yes. I have a child with a compromised immune system so I take it more seriously than most people.4
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Ah, I should have checked before bothering to respond. This has just become a typical mudslinging political debate. Anyone who makes a medical issue into a political one is brainwashed beyond redemption no matter which side they're on. Everyone speaks in "talking points" now. Not a single original thought. It's so sad and predictable.2
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I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.11 -
I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Let me guess, you think it was contracted from eating animals?0 -
I guess I made this jump off the rails. My bad.janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
I don't understand how you can declare in one post that we can't know anything for sure about infection rates or fatalities, but then confidently state that the virus was deliberately created in China. Obviously you do think SOME sources of information are reliable, you just prefer ones that are pushing fringe theories and encouraging people to ignore preventative measures.
I won’t speak for others but for me it’s not a matter of preference, it’s a matter of evaluating reliability and validity. I personally do not trust most news sources regardless of their opinions. Yes, I think most news sources report opinions and not unbiased news.
Everything is traceable. If you know what OSINT sources are available and are reliable, know what to look for, how to analyze the minutia and weed out what is not relevant, correlate and taxonomize the remaining findings, and some other very cool stuff, attribution begins to appear and the entire story unfolds. I’m not aware of any media sources which have explained this to the general public but this is possible for anyone to do with the right skill set and resources.
We're talking about a specific set of claims -- that the virus was created in China to deliberately infect people, that it is being used by those in positions of power in the US to consolidate power, and that we cannot trust any of the numbers of people infected or who have died due to it. Do you find the news sources putting forward these claims to be especially reliable and valid?
If the answer is "I learned it all through open-source intelligence," okay . . . what sources are those and why are they more valid than other sources reporting different information? The decision to "weed out what isn't relevant" isn't one that is made in a vacuum, it can absolutely involve biases, pre-made decisions, and preferences.
All I’m saying is that there is much more information available to us than many may know.
Absolutely some OSINT sources are less reputable than others and each needs scrutinized. And, those who do this professionally are well aware of that. Even the most reputable source overall will have a reputation that is higher in some areas of data and lower in others. The second highest may have a higher reputation than the first in their lower areas. It’s pretty complicated and the consultants who do this professionally make some $.
When you’re gathering and collecting information you will over collect data that can be irrelevant all together or even associated but not relevant to the research. For example, I may be following a component or piece of firmware through a supply chain and while doing so I may come across someone’s non-work email address. Is it associated with what I’m looking for? It could be. Is it relevant? Probably not and will be weeded out until such time as it is relevant.0 -
I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Let me guess, you think it was contracted from eating animals?
No. They actually do not know how the initial spillover occurred. They initially thought it was the wet markets. But we still don't know. I still see a few people on FB talking about bat soup, but there is no evidence for that at all. The virus is closely related to bat coronaviruses. But the initial spillover event may have come from an intermediate host.7 -
As a newly retired healthcare worker, trust me. You do NOT want to contract this disease, nor do you want to infect anyone else (if you have a conscience). Its a horrible way to suffer. Just wear the mask please.19
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I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Who showed that, exactly?3 -
Fit_Chef_NE wrote: »Ah, I should have checked before bothering to respond. This has just become a typical mudslinging political debate. Anyone who makes a medical issue into a political one is brainwashed beyond redemption no matter which side they're on. Everyone speaks in "talking points" now. Not a single original thought. It's so sad and predictable.
I just want to point out that coming into a debate and declaring everyone is wrong and you're the only one capable of original thought is pretty common also.
Just because sometimes people agree doesn't mean they aren't thinking originally. It means that sometimes people can draw similar conclusions from considering a set of facts.9 -
Fit_Chef_NE wrote: »Ah, I should have checked before bothering to respond. This has just become a typical mudslinging political debate. Anyone who makes a medical issue into a political one is brainwashed beyond redemption no matter which side they're on. Everyone speaks in "talking points" now. Not a single original thought. It's so sad and predictable.
As evidenced by the fact that people are downvoting me on posts that are just linking articles which present facts, simply because the facts do not fit their political agenda. And they are upvoting the people who continue to make claims about COVID-19 policy that I have disproven through the articles I posted -- even though, unlike me, those people have not linked any sources to support their claims. Oh, and they are accusing me of "trying to start an argument" just for having a dissenting opinion, when THEY are the ones who falsely claimed I am a liar.
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Mandated here, so in the stores, etc. I'm a masker.
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janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Who showed that, exactly?
I will look it up and come back. It's been a while, so I have to go back and find it.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Who showed that, exactly?
I tried to dig back into all this. It goes all the way back to February/March, and its been hard finding the articles again. Much of what I dug into came from This Week in Virology, which is a group of virologists who have been presenting information on this since January/February. I posted a link to one of the early podcasts that discussed the conspiracy theories. I don't have time to listen again to hear their source (but they are good about backing things up with science. These guys are freaking awesome.). I also linked to an episode of TwiEvo (this week in evolution). They have several episodes following the evolution of this virus. If I can I find my more specific stuff, I will come back. I know someone in my facebook friends has what I'm looking for!
https://microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-588/
https://microbe.tv/twievo/twievo-52/2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Who showed that, exactly?
I tried to dig back into all this. It goes all the way back to February/March, and its been hard finding the articles again. Much of what I dug into came from This Week in Virology, which is a group of virologists who have been presenting information on this since January/February. I posted a link to one of the early podcasts that discussed the conspiracy theories. I don't have time to listen again to hear their source (but they are good about backing things up with science. These guys are freaking awesome.). I also linked to an episode of TwiEvo (this week in evolution). They have several episodes following the evolution of this virus. If I can I find my more specific stuff, I will come back. I know someone in my facebook friends has what I'm looking for!
https://microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-588/
https://microbe.tv/twievo/twievo-52/
Proof that COVID-19 was deliberately created in a lab is pretty much the definition of "big, if true" news. If the only thing you can find to support the claim is a podcast, I'm going to conclude that it has not, in fact, "already been shown" to be true months ago. I have no doubt that people on podcasts were making the claim months ago, but that is very different from something having "already been shown" in a way that is reliable.
I have no doubt that your friends on Facebook will support your claim and provide you with lots of podcast links, YouTube videos, and various blogs to support the claim. It's pretty much what Facebook is famous for at this point. It's the throbbing, teeming center of our current crisis of misinformation and conspiracy theories.
If you ever do find any reputable sources for the claim, I'd love to evaluate them.5 -
This is another interesting link a friend sent. May not be what some are looking for, but I found it interesting. I hope it opens right. It is from May.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kAHSEx9-eIyVIahczH8itHaUm9jI9WX7/view?fbclid=IwAR2uVuZqQFBAahqP8QlPigApZp96kEQYjSBnXZoFfQjg5PnTPYASjzUsp7U1 -
Hmm, what I'm thinking as I read through:
The building is burning.
Your children are inside.
Let me talk to everyone standing outside the building about the following:
How did it start?
Whose fault was it?
What mechanism can we use to determine the spread of the blaze?
The building is still burning. Your kids are still inside.
Hey, let's try this hose filled with water.
What water? Did this water come from China? Didn't they use water in other countries when buildings were on fire? Shouldn't we investigate if water is the best way to put out a fire?
The building has burnt down. Your children are dead.
I'd be interested to learn how those who choose not to wear masks, social distance, et al propose that we should put out the fire.12 -
laurenq1991 wrote: »slimgirljo15 wrote: »Your original post said Australia , yet you were talking about Victorian restrictions obviously that was confusing to me.
Victoria is part of Australia, is it not?Nevermind. If you're spoiling for an argument, you won't get one here.
"Spoiling for an argument"? I was just stating my opinion. Other people are the ones who started arguing with me by accusing me of "spreading lies about their country." And then "disagreeing" with my posts that were just posting news articles supporting what I was saying...like what exactly are they "disagreeing" with, the existence of these facts?moonangel12 wrote: »Not knowing the exact set up you have, did the face shield move from facial muscles during your sneeze instead of air flow?
I doubt it because, also, the other day I sneezed while wearing a mask but no face shield, and I felt air come out of the mask. Also, the face shield attaches to the face around the forehead and it usually doesn't move easily from talking, facial expressions, etc.If so, might be time for a new mask. As a quilter, there are wide varieties of fabric and even “thick” doesn’t mean tight weave.
And yet the mask restrictions just say "wear a face covering," regardless of whether it's actually effective. Most people aren't quilters and aren't able to find or make the perfect mask that actually works. Especially as, obviously, you can't try them on or take them out of the package before you buy them. If the multi-layered mask I use doesn't work, probably very few masks on the market do, making this little more than security theater.
I don’t know, I have the mindset that something is better than nothing. I don’t see it as “security theater” I see it as people making an effort to do their part with the materials that they are given or that are made available. Are some people being silly about it by wearing open mesh “masks” to prove their own point about flawed regulations? Yes, but are they the majority? No. And because of the few making their mark in the news by being verbally or even physically aggressive against said mandates, people aren’t going to be as comfortable enforcing them for fear of retaliation. The world has gone mad.
If you didn’t see spit splatter on the inside of your face shield when you sneezed, even if air flow did move it, to me that shows the mask as having some form of a success rate (it blocked spray, which is what contains the virus and spreads it ridiculous distances in those situations).
“Perfection is the enemy of good.”
Since something doesn’t work 100%, might as well not bother, reducing the effectiveness to 0%... that doesn’t make sense to me.
13 -
Masks are a placebo to assuage some of the fear that people have about the virus. I'm fine with that. I'll play along. I would rather this than shut down the economy again.
But my mom had double lung surgeries and my dad has extremely bad claustrophobia, so they can't wear them, and I don't think we should shame them for it either.4
This discussion has been closed.
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