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Face mask or no face mask?

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  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Member Posts: 2,085 Member Member Posts: 2,085 Member
    Dnarules wrote: »
    lokihen wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    Wearing a mask in public, for me, has become like wearing a seat belt. I feel naked without it. Plus it covers my teeth in case I didn't see the broccoli.

    I wear one when required, but counting the days until not required. Will wear seat belt forever.

    While I doubt it will become as cultural here in the US as it is in some Asian countries, I hope it becomes normal to wear one when we have colds and flu.

    I would like to see masks used more during flu season. Not mandated....but just a shift to people using the..

    Doubt it will happen on a widespread basis in most of the US. The places in Asia where you commonly see them being worn have terrible air quality and high population density.
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 7,578 Member Member Posts: 7,578 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    lokihen wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    Wearing a mask in public, for me, has become like wearing a seat belt. I feel naked without it. Plus it covers my teeth in case I didn't see the broccoli.

    I wear one when required, but counting the days until not required. Will wear seat belt forever.

    While I doubt it will become as cultural here in the US as it is in some Asian countries, I hope it becomes normal to wear one when we have colds and flu.

    I would like to see masks used more during flu season. Not mandated....but just a shift to people using the..

    Doubt it will happen on a widespread basis in most of the US. The places in Asia where you commonly see them being worn have terrible air quality and high population density.

    I think it's not just that, but also cultural. I live near an area with a good many East Asians in Chicago, and it was reasonably common to see people in masks before this.

    But I agree it's unlikely to catch on in the US.
  • laurenq1991laurenq1991 Member Posts: 384 Member Member Posts: 384 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    This is why this conversation is so frustrating. You misread or misrepresent what others say. You said Italy was having a spike in cases. I said it was nothing like the spike in cases the US is having -- you use as if equivalent places with far lower current cases than the US. Then you change the topic entirely to total per capita cases being (so far) more in Italy (which I knew, I have been obsessing about all the different stats for ages now), and so I pointed out a conflict in your arguments. Then you claim that I said that Italy has few deaths per capita than the US, which I did not say. This is why I don't think you are serious about wanting to have a real discussion, and I am done. Too bad, as I think we do have some areas of agreement. I am not merely reiterating whatever media stuff you think is annoying and so choose to argue against.

    Um, that's not what I said. I said that the areas of the US that are having a spike in cases are areas that never had one before. Whereas the areas of Italy that are having a spike in cases already had a surge. So it makes sense that the US would have higher case rates because those areas having spikes never had any population immunity. But I also wanted to clarify that Italy has higher deaths per million than the US because it's a common misconception that the US has higher deaths per million and I wasn't sure if you were alluding to that or not.
    Note the shifty change of claim. I said we did not close borders, as you claimed. Then you accuse me of being unaware that we "restricted travel" -- a different thing.

    I never said that we entirely closed borders. I went back and checked and my exact sentence was "We started closing borders in February before many other countries (and were vilified for it at the time)." STARTING to close borders does not mean they were entirely closed. It just means that the process was STARTED.

    However, there was such a huge backlash against it at the time and accusations of racism, it's no wonder it didn't get further. The WHO also claimed at the time that travel restrictions were ineffective at stopping disease spread (which actually turned out to be true, but only because it had already been in the US for months at that point, unbeknownst to us). Here is a press release from February 29th in which the WHO recommends against travel restrictions: https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-recommendations-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-covid-19-outbreak
    Oh, and I live in a big city, as explained, and what you claim happens re masks -- people being mean and aggressive to those not wearing them -- does not happen. Mostly people fight on NextDoor about it, much like here, but wouldn't dream of saying something to someone in person, as we don't do that.

    I've seen accounts to the contrary online. As I've said, in real life I haven't seen anyone not wearing a mask indoors, so I also haven't seen anyone confronting anybody about it.

    Anyway you keep misrepresenting what I said, yet are accusing me of doing that. For example claiming that I said Australia has been locked down since March, when I never said that.
    edited August 2020
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Member Posts: 2,085 Member Member Posts: 2,085 Member
    Gisel2015 wrote: »
    I wear one where required by law. I think they are security theater, but like the TSA, I'll play.

    The reason I think people resist wearing them is that they are being told they are a leper. You don't wear a mask to protect yourself - you do it because YOU are a filthy disgusting person who's very breath will be the death of someone else, how dare you subject people to the secretions of your respiratory system. No fever? No symptoms? Too bad! You are still dangerous! Cover that hole! No one's ever been this worried about people asymptomatic with the flu. Did you know people who get the DTaP/TdaP can still asymptomatically carry pertussis? No one cares - you are encouraged to get the vaccine (which allows you to carry the bacteria asymptomatically!) before handling newborns.

    And I don't even think they are very effective. But again, I'll play.

    Nobody seems to care that speaking to someone for 5 minutes or less in a normal voice doesn't carry the same viral load as coughing or sneezing, it isn't the same thing - you'd have to talk to someone for 30 minutes for the same amount of particulate as 1 cough - at what point does it become unsafe? The CDC seems to think 15 minutes at less than 6'. That isn't walking by someone in the grocery aisle or coming around a corner and passing someone.

    Again. I play. I follow the rules.

    I wish this people had play by the rules... But they party together, no masks, no social distance, and many innocent and vulnerable people are and will be paying the price of their stupidity and selfishness.

    Covid-19 cases tied to the Sturgis motorcycle rally in South Dakota have reached across state lines

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/21/us/sturgis-motorcyle-rally-sd-covid-nebraska-trnd/index.html


    That's sort of a no *kitten* Sherlock headline. The vast majority of the people at Sturgis are from outside SD. Makes sense cases will cross state lines.
  • ythannahythannah Member Posts: 3,923 Member Member Posts: 3,923 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Running and hiding is not going to solve anything. Staying locked up is not healthy. We need to be exposed to germs and bacteria. If you are at high risk, then stay home. Our economy has taken a huge hit, I know as I'm an investor. Many people have lost their lives work. People have lost their jobs.

    I'm very sympathetic about those who've lost jobs and livelihoods. A number of those folks are my friends and relatives, as I'm sure is true for many people here. I'm concerned for the ones I know, and the ones I don't (and have been helping as able, in practice).

    I'm surprised, though, at the seeming implication that investors are suffering. (If the point, instead, is that investors have a clearer view of the negative economic consequences than the working folks, that seems improbable to me, too. Possibly on average they have a *more technical* view, at most.)

    So far, the markets have been almost absurdly stable, and have had some notable recent growth points that would've been pretty predictable, and potentially profitable for an investor with some insight and a quick-ish trigger finger, a few months back. (I say this as a US retiree from a job with only a defined-contribution retirement plan, not taking social security, so my entire (non-wealthy!) financial picture is investment-related, outside of my (non-investment) real estate and personal property. I'm watching that egg-basket closely, believe me.)

    It could fall apart at any moment, of course, but right now the markets here as a whole seem to be reasonably optimistic about the economic future. Market performance is pretty much the ultimate crowd-sourced opinion on that point, with all the advantages and demerits that crowd-sourcing always has (though the relevant crowd in this case is . . . invested, in many senses of the term).

    Whether predictable, managed shutdowns have a lower or higher impact on the economy than unpredictable ones related to acute Covid outbreaks . . . that's a whole other very complicated topic, not directly related to the masks/no masks questions. I don't think the answer either way is certain, unless someone believes the pandemic is primarily mythical.

    But yes, the economic consequences have been terrible, and massive.

    I have to agree about the investment picture, and I'm in a different country. Yes the TSX took a hefty downturn in mid-March but it has almost recovered to its previous level. I guess I've lost 8 months potential growth, but that's about it.
  • DnarulesDnarules Member Posts: 2,071 Member Member Posts: 2,071 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    lokihen wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    Wearing a mask in public, for me, has become like wearing a seat belt. I feel naked without it. Plus it covers my teeth in case I didn't see the broccoli.

    I wear one when required, but counting the days until not required. Will wear seat belt forever.

    While I doubt it will become as cultural here in the US as it is in some Asian countries, I hope it becomes normal to wear one when we have colds and flu.

    I would like to see masks used more during flu season. Not mandated....but just a shift to people using the..

    Doubt it will happen on a widespread basis in most of the US. The places in Asia where you commonly see them being worn have terrible air quality and high population density.

    I agree. Just a wish lol.
  • mockchocmockchoc Member Posts: 6,589 Member Member Posts: 6,589 Member
    .
    edited August 2020
  • cgvet37cgvet37 Member Posts: 1,189 Member Member Posts: 1,189 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    lokihen wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    Wearing a mask in public, for me, has become like wearing a seat belt. I feel naked without it. Plus it covers my teeth in case I didn't see the broccoli.

    I wear one when required, but counting the days until not required. Will wear seat belt forever.

    While I doubt it will become as cultural here in the US as it is in some Asian countries, I hope it becomes normal to wear one when we have colds and flu.

    I would like to see masks used more during flu season. Not mandated....but just a shift to people using the..

    Doubt it will happen on a widespread basis in most of the US. The places in Asia where you commonly see them being worn have terrible air quality and high population density.

    I think it's not just that, but also cultural. I live near an area with a good many East Asians in Chicago, and it was reasonably common to see people in masks before this.

    But I agree it's unlikely to catch on in the US.

    No, it's because of pollution. The pollution in mainland China is so bad they have to wet the streets. They don't have regulations like we do here. A lot of that pollution winds up in Japan, that's why you see a lot of Japanese wearing masks.
  • cgvet37cgvet37 Member Posts: 1,189 Member Member Posts: 1,189 Member
    mockchoc wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    mockchoc wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Masks do nothing but give a false sense of security. You better wear a respirator, goggles, and gloves. Dispose of gloves before entering your vehicle. Sanitize your car and anything you purchased when you get home. You better take your clothes off in the garage, and immediately take them to the washer. Then take a shower. If not, you are putting a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.

    Hey you. :) I appreciate your thoughts on masks. I don't know if you mentioned social distancing or not. If you do that then masks are not so important. Are you doing that? That is really important.

    I go to the gym 3 days a week. I go to friends houses. I go to resteraunts. I'm not going to live in fear.

    Do you know what is funny? You ARE actually showing you are living in fear by behaving this way. Wishing you the best though. Sorry to read you are scared. We all are a little bit.

    I'm scared, because I don't wear a mask like a good little sheep?
  • mockchocmockchoc Member Posts: 6,589 Member Member Posts: 6,589 Member
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    mockchoc wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    mockchoc wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Masks do nothing but give a false sense of security. You better wear a respirator, goggles, and gloves. Dispose of gloves before entering your vehicle. Sanitize your car and anything you purchased when you get home. You better take your clothes off in the garage, and immediately take them to the washer. Then take a shower. If not, you are putting a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.

    Hey you. :) I appreciate your thoughts on masks. I don't know if you mentioned social distancing or not. If you do that then masks are not so important. Are you doing that? That is really important.

    I go to the gym 3 days a week. I go to friends houses. I go to resteraunts. I'm not going to live in fear.

    Do you know what is funny? You ARE actually showing you are living in fear by behaving this way. Wishing you the best though. Sorry to read you are scared. We all are a little bit.

    I'm scared, because I don't wear a mask like a good little sheep?

    Yep. I think so otherwise you wouldn't be raving on about it and just do it because you care about others and not just yourself. I don't need a mask. My city has no Covid so guess I'll let you get back to the gym. I have masks ready if it comes though.
    edited August 2020
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