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Lifting glove advice

2

Replies

  • IronIsMyTherapy
    IronIsMyTherapy Posts: 482 Member
    wiigelec wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »

    The specificity isn't very close at all because of how, where, and the movement itself is performed.

    ...because of the specificity of the movement, hold angle, leverage, etc...
    so improving grip strength while holding something perpendicular to the shoulder does not translate to improved grip strength while holding something parallel to the shoulder?

    interesting...

    Yeah, I understand that farmer walks won't necessarily add #'s to your deadlift, but they WILL help you hold onto it if that's your issue.
  • SnifterPug
    SnifterPug Posts: 744 Member
    I found that bottoms-up kettlebell carries helped my grip strength enormously.
  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 503 Member
    edited October 2020
    Yeah, I understand that farmer walks won't necessarily add #'s to your deadlift, but they WILL help you hold onto it if that's your issue.

    i’m having a hard time grasping the concept that grip strength is not universal...

  • IronIsMyTherapy
    IronIsMyTherapy Posts: 482 Member
    wiigelec wrote: »
    Yeah, I understand that farmer walks won't necessarily add #'s to your deadlift, but they WILL help you hold onto it if that's your issue.

    i’m having a hard time grasping the concept that grip strength is not universal...

    Maybe try farmers walks?
  • ritzvin
    ritzvin Posts: 2,829 Member
    Hi team,
    Today I managed to deadlift 60kgs / 130lbs, but couldn’t manage more due to grip. Gym suggested buying gloves.
    Does anyone have any tips about what I am looking for? What makes a good glove?

    Very petite female here with very short hands (<6") - for me, gloves made things worse from the small increase in diameter (YMMV).

    For grip (as in not slipping versus grip strength): I found this stuff preferable to the liquid chalk (works well, without the messiness - so also not likely to get you in trouble at a no-chalk-allowed gym) -- https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00476MDU8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    For my working weight (at which point mixed grip no longer works well enough for me), I use VersaGrips (saw the recommendation on these boards some time ago by another smaller-handed female). They work amazingly well.
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,955 Member
    sgt1372 wrote: »
    Nothing "wrong" w/using gloves if they work for you.Use them if they do don't if they don't

    I use them to keep calluses from forming. They work for that. Use them w/straps on deadlifts. Don't lift any less when I wear them

    Unless you're chasing lifting numbers. <snip> But, if you're just trying to have a quick easy way to protect your hands and get past sweat, they're fine.

    I'd agree that if you are trying to lift MAX weights that it probably would be better to do so w/just your bare hands and chalk/staps as needed/allowed.

    I'm way beyond trying to lift max weights anymore. In fact, I hardly ever lift anymore.

    That has more to do w/my age (70) and physical condition/appearance (which I'm happy w/the way it is now) which is based on all of the lifting I did before and the daily physical conditioning that I continue to get on my C2 rower.

    However, when I was lifting "heavier," I preferred to use gloves/straps (rather than bare hands w/chalk (which I have) and/or straps because it was more comfortable to do so and because (at least for me) it did not seem to affect how much weight I could deadlift which, in my 60's when I weighed what I still do now (155-160), was a DL max of 400# (which was a lot of weight for a man my age/size).

    I also wear/wore gloves when doing any other kind of lifting, rowing or any other physical exercise that requires me to hold something in my hands. Just feels better to me.

    However, as someone mentioned above, the "fit" of the gloves is very important. I use fingerless leather palmed/nylon backed climbing gloves and have found that the tighter the fit, the better and usually buy 1 size smaller than I normally wear to make sure the gloves fit tightly (even if they stretch a bit after use).

    Anyway, IMO, for "most" people, wearing gloves will make no difference at all, except make lifting a bar more comfortable and help prevent caluses from forming for those people who do not view caluses as a badge of merit.

    For other people, who are believe that they are impaired from lifting MAX weights (whether that's actually the case or not) because gloves negatively affect their grip, there's nothing "wrong" going bare handed and w/chalk and/or straps (as needed or desired).

    It just depends on your needs/goals.
  • cgvet37
    cgvet37 Posts: 1,189 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chalk, not gloves but it's really your grip strength you should work on. I'd suggest doing farmers carry's to build grip strength.

    Lmao, I get my fair share of disagree's but I'd love this one to defend it

    Essentially doing farmer's carries makes you better at farmer carries, not deadlift grip compared to actually performing the deadlift grip.

    The specificity isn't very close at all because of how, where, and the movement itself is performed.

    Doing more deadlifts with more reps and eventually higher intensity over time will improve your deadlift grip because of the specificity of the movement, hold angle, leverage, etc...

    If you are adding farmer carries to your programming for "grip work" only. then I'd argue its a poor choice on exercise selection.

    There is nothing wrong with farmers carries especially of you are or have aspirations to be a strongman competitor. The grip simply doesn't carry over well to deadlifts in place of performing a deadlift.

    So yeah specificity is why I don't find farmer's carries a great option for what the OP posted with what we know of his/her training.


    Sorry, but no. Farmers carries will absolutely help with grip strength. Your forearms don't care in what position they are relative to bar. For example, I do farmers carries with a tractor tire. It absolutely transfers to my deadlift.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,082 Member
    edited October 2020
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chalk, not gloves but it's really your grip strength you should work on. I'd suggest doing farmers carry's to build grip strength.

    Lmao, I get my fair share of disagree's but I'd love this one to defend it

    Essentially doing farmer's carries makes you better at farmer carries, not deadlift grip compared to actually performing the deadlift grip.

    The specificity isn't very close at all because of how, where, and the movement itself is performed.

    Doing more deadlifts with more reps and eventually higher intensity over time will improve your deadlift grip because of the specificity of the movement, hold angle, leverage, etc...

    If you are adding farmer carries to your programming for "grip work" only. then I'd argue its a poor choice on exercise selection.

    There is nothing wrong with farmers carries especially of you are or have aspirations to be a strongman competitor. The grip simply doesn't carry over well to deadlifts in place of performing a deadlift.

    So yeah specificity is why I don't find farmer's carries a great option for what the OP posted with what we know of his/her training.


    I disagree. Farmers carry's are BOTH a good standalone exercise AND very often recommended to help with grip. Yes, the best way to improve a lift is to train the lift itself, but the specificity lies in the issue at hand, which is grip strength and I stand by the farmers carry as a great way to train grip.

    https://origympersonaltrainercourses.co.uk/blog/farmers-walk-benefits#:~:text=The farmer's walk strengthens your,when they are properly trained.

    https://barbend.com/benefits-of-farmers-walk/

    https://www.verywellfit.com/how-to-do-a-farmer-carry-techniques-benefits-variations-4796615

    https://www.theptdc.com/how-to-improve-grip-strength-with-these-top-exercises-for-hands

    https://www.crossfitinvictus.com/blog/farmer-carries-super-beneficial-yet-widely-underused/

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/farmer-s-walk-cure

    As I said it is good for bettering grip strength for farmer carries. Never said they don't help grip, they just are a much lower option than the deadlift itself if our goal is to improve deadlift grip. Holding weight by your side while walking and at 90 degrees to body for minute(s) compared to a barbell in front of shins, lifting from a dead stop off the ground and hands in a totally different postion for only a fraction of second is a two entirely different grip needs. Can you benefit some grip? Probably minor, certainly not enough to change programming specific to increase grip FOR the deadlift which is what the OP is asking.

    Nothing wrong with them, but not one of the links is "evidence" that it helps deadlifts. Articles can be written about anything and are only a opinion. Usually to sell something in the end advertising, product, etc...

    Think of it this way. I have a basketball athlete who wants to increase her three poit percentage. Do I have her practice free throws or three pointers? Both have simular arm motions, but one is closer to the hoop and feet stay in the ground the other is specific to the task. I wouldn't take out 3pt practice and insert free throw if the goal was to better 3pt percentage. Especially if she wasn't in need of free throw practice.

    If a goal was for someone to increase their deadlift, I wouldn't dose farmer carries in place of deadlifts or a DL variation slot. I would have them deadlift at appropriate volume and intensity. That is the point.

    The fitness industry if full of people suggesting things that are poor advice and a lot of times utterly BS to put out content and make money. Very few of them man up and educate themselves. Allan Thrall comes to mind as one that bettered himself. He put out kitty ccontent years ago and now uses evidence to base his decisions not opinion articles.

  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,082 Member
    wiigelec wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »

    The specificity isn't very close at all because of how, where, and the movement itself is performed.

    ...because of the specificity of the movement, hold angle, leverage, etc...
    so improving grip strength while holding something perpendicular to the shoulder does not translate to improved grip strength while holding something parallel to the shoulder?

    interesting...

    It doesn't translate with specificity. The key word that is being overlooked. If your deadlidt grip is slipping, we don't take a deadlift slot out and add farmer carries slot as a default if our goal is to increase deadlift grip. Simply better options out there.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,082 Member
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chalk, not gloves but it's really your grip strength you should work on. I'd suggest doing farmers carry's to build grip strength.

    Lmao, I get my fair share of disagree's but I'd love this one to defend it

    Essentially doing farmer's carries makes you better at farmer carries, not deadlift grip compared to actually performing the deadlift grip.

    The specificity isn't very close at all because of how, where, and the movement itself is performed.

    Doing more deadlifts with more reps and eventually higher intensity over time will improve your deadlift grip because of the specificity of the movement, hold angle, leverage, etc...

    If you are adding farmer carries to your programming for "grip work" only. then I'd argue its a poor choice on exercise selection.

    There is nothing wrong with farmers carries especially of you are or have aspirations to be a strongman competitor. The grip simply doesn't carry over well to deadlifts in place of performing a deadlift.

    So yeah specificity is why I don't find farmer's carries a great option for what the OP posted with what we know of his/her training.


    Sorry, but no. Farmers carries will absolutely help with grip strength. Your forearms don't care in what position they are relative to bar. For example, I do farmers carries with a tractor tire. It absolutely transfers to my deadlift.

    Better than more deadlifts?

    Please post both training blocks with farmer carries and without notes of how you came to this conclusion.

    The point you and others are missing is I'm not saying farmer carries don't have their place. The best place might be a strongman or people who gave a goal of doing farmer carries.

    You are saying they develop grip strength as am I, so your arguement is missing my point which is deaflift grip practice is better for deadlifts than farmer carries. Why not train efficient?

    Dr J Feigenbaum a extremely strong deadlifter along with Dr A Buraki would argue that your body does care how you train with relation to body positioning.
  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 503 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Think of it this way. I have a basketball athlete who wants to increase her three poit percentage. Do I have her practice free throws or three pointers? Both have simular arm motions, but one is closer to the hoop and feet stay in the ground the other is specific to the task. I wouldn't take out 3pt practice and insert free throw if the goal was to better 3pt percentage. Especially if she wasn't in need of free throw practice.
    so when your basketball player wants to get stronger to improve basketball performance, just have them do basketball stuff with a heavier and heavier basketball?

    since that would be more specific to the task at hand?

  • CipherZero
    CipherZero Posts: 1,420 Member
    wiigelec wrote: »
    so when your basketball player wants to get stronger to improve basketball performance, just have them do basketball stuff with a heavier and heavier basketball?

    since that would be more specific to the task at hand?

    Strength training and skills training are two different kinds of training.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,082 Member
    edited October 2020
    wiigelec wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Think of it this way. I have a basketball athlete who wants to increase her three poit percentage. Do I have her practice free throws or three pointers? Both have simular arm motions, but one is closer to the hoop and feet stay in the ground the other is specific to the task. I wouldn't take out 3pt practice and insert free throw if the goal was to better 3pt percentage. Especially if she wasn't in need of free throw practice.
    so when your basketball player wants to get stronger to improve basketball performance, just have them do basketball stuff with a heavier and heavier basketball?

    since that would be more specific to the task at hand?
    wiigelec wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Think of it this way. I have a basketball athlete who wants to increase her three poit percentage. Do I have her practice free throws or three pointers? Both have simular arm motions, but one is closer to the hoop and feet stay in the ground the other is specific to the task. I wouldn't take out 3pt practice and insert free throw if the goal was to better 3pt percentage. Especially if she wasn't in need of free throw practice.
    so when your basketball player wants to get stronger to improve basketball performance, just have them do basketball stuff with a heavier and heavier basketball?

    since that would be more specific to the task at hand?

    No, because the goal in my example is improving a skill not strength specifically. We have to look at each individual and the goal or task at hand carefully and select the best route relative to that person/athlete.

    If I wanted a basketball player to be stronger in general, I would train them for strength in general with some specificity of the the sub goals within. So things like quarter or half squats could be more useful for quad development to jump, while a huge bench press wouldn't be as useful. Working with a heavier basketball wouldn't improve a skill or strength that I can think of within the context you suggest.

    Much if you ever seen a golfer in the gym using a cable machine to mimic his/her golf swing. This is hardly useful or optimal to practice swinging slower to improve the skill of golf. I rather train them stronger in general by means that are known to develop strength optimally and then have them practice whatever skill they want to develop by playing more golf that involves that skill.

    Or my baseball pitchers, yes I might have them do some low volume weighted ball toss on a off day once in a while. I don't see that useful of throwing a snappy curve ball or locating their fast ball. Having them practice their curve ball and fast balls under proper load management would be my default to improve those skills.
  • IronIsMyTherapy
    IronIsMyTherapy Posts: 482 Member
    sgt1372 wrote: »
    sgt1372 wrote: »
    Nothing "wrong" w/using gloves if they work for you.Use them if they do don't if they don't

    I use them to keep calluses from forming. They work for that. Use them w/straps on deadlifts. Don't lift any less when I wear them

    Unless you're chasing lifting numbers. <snip> But, if you're just trying to have a quick easy way to protect your hands and get past sweat, they're fine.

    I'd agree that if you are trying to lift MAX weights that it probably would be better to do so w/just your bare hands and chalk/staps as needed/allowed.

    I'm way beyond trying to lift max weights anymore. In fact, I hardly ever lift anymore.

    That has more to do w/my age (70) and physical condition/appearance (which I'm happy w/the way it is now) which is based on all of the lifting I did before and the daily physical conditioning that I continue to get on my C2 rower.

    However, when I was lifting "heavier," I preferred to use gloves/straps (rather than bare hands w/chalk (which I have) and/or straps because it was more comfortable to do so and because (at least for me) it did not seem to affect how much weight I could deadlift which, in my 60's when I weighed what I still do now (155-160), was a DL max of 400# (which was a lot of weight for a man my age/size).

    I also wear/wore gloves when doing any other kind of lifting, rowing or any other physical exercise that requires me to hold something in my hands. Just feels better to me.

    However, as someone mentioned above, the "fit" of the gloves is very important. I use fingerless leather palmed/nylon backed climbing gloves and have found that the tighter the fit, the better and usually buy 1 size smaller than I normally wear to make sure the gloves fit tightly (even if they stretch a bit after use).

    Anyway, IMO, for "most" people, wearing gloves will make no difference at all, except make lifting a bar more comfortable and help prevent caluses from forming for those people who do not view caluses as a badge of merit.

    For other people, who are believe that they are impaired from lifting MAX weights (whether that's actually the case or not) because gloves negatively affect their grip, there's nothing "wrong" going bare handed and w/chalk and/or straps (as needed or desired).

    It just depends on your needs/goals.

    Fair enough, just pointing out there is potential downsides to gloving up. But yeah, depends on what's the individual's priority.
  • IronIsMyTherapy
    IronIsMyTherapy Posts: 482 Member
    edited October 2020
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chalk, not gloves but it's really your grip strength you should work on. I'd suggest doing farmers carry's to build grip strength.

    Lmao, I get my fair share of disagree's but I'd love this one to defend it

    Essentially doing farmer's carries makes you better at farmer carries, not deadlift grip compared to actually performing the deadlift grip.

    The specificity isn't very close at all because of how, where, and the movement itself is performed.

    Doing more deadlifts with more reps and eventually higher intensity over time will improve your deadlift grip because of the specificity of the movement, hold angle, leverage, etc...

    If you are adding farmer carries to your programming for "grip work" only. then I'd argue its a poor choice on exercise selection.

    There is nothing wrong with farmers carries especially of you are or have aspirations to be a strongman competitor. The grip simply doesn't carry over well to deadlifts in place of performing a deadlift.

    So yeah specificity is why I don't find farmer's carries a great option for what the OP posted with what we know of his/her training.


    I disagree. Farmers carry's are BOTH a good standalone exercise AND very often recommended to help with grip. Yes, the best way to improve a lift is to train the lift itself, but the specificity lies in the issue at hand, which is grip strength and I stand by the farmers carry as a great way to train grip.

    https://origympersonaltrainercourses.co.uk/blog/farmers-walk-benefits#:~:text=The farmer's walk strengthens your,when they are properly trained.

    https://barbend.com/benefits-of-farmers-walk/

    https://www.verywellfit.com/how-to-do-a-farmer-carry-techniques-benefits-variations-4796615

    https://www.theptdc.com/how-to-improve-grip-strength-with-these-top-exercises-for-hands

    https://www.crossfitinvictus.com/blog/farmer-carries-super-beneficial-yet-widely-underused/

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/farmer-s-walk-cure

    As I said it is good for bettering grip strength for farmer carries. Never said they don't help grip, they just are a much lower option than the deadlift itself if our goal is to improve deadlift grip. Holding weight by your side while walking and at 90 degrees to body for minute(s) compared to a barbell in front of shins, lifting from a dead stop off the ground and hands in a totally different postion for only a fraction of second is a two entirely different grip needs. Can you benefit some grip? Probably minor, certainly not enough to change programming specific to increase grip FOR the deadlift which is what the OP is asking.

    Nothing wrong with them, but not one of the links is "evidence" that it helps deadlifts. Articles can be written about anything and are only a opinion. Usually to sell something in the end advertising, product, etc...

    Think of it this way. I have a basketball athlete who wants to increase her three poit percentage. Do I have her practice free throws or three pointers? Both have simular arm motions, but one is closer to the hoop and feet stay in the ground the other is specific to the task. I wouldn't take out 3pt practice and insert free throw if the goal was to better 3pt percentage. Especially if she wasn't in need of free throw practice.

    If a goal was for someone to increase their deadlift, I wouldn't dose farmer carries in place of deadlifts or a DL variation slot. I would have them deadlift at appropriate volume and intensity. That is the point.

    The fitness industry if full of people suggesting things that are poor advice and a lot of times utterly BS to put out content and make money. Very few of them man up and educate themselves. Allan Thrall comes to mind as one that bettered himself. He put out kitty ccontent years ago and now uses evidence to base his decisions not opinion articles.

    What if accuracy from a distance wasnt the issue, rather she didn't have the strength to get the ball to the net? Then some separate training to increase strength would absolutely be applicable. I agree with you in principle, but not with regards to this specific OP. Shes unable to train the lift with ample volume and intensity because grip is the weak link.

    And its disingenuous to infer an article recommending a movement for increasing grip strength is likely BS simply because it's not accompanied by a study.
  • IronIsMyTherapy
    IronIsMyTherapy Posts: 482 Member
    edited October 2020
    CipherZero wrote: »
    wiigelec wrote: »
    so when your basketball player wants to get stronger to improve basketball performance, just have them do basketball stuff with a heavier and heavier basketball?

    since that would be more specific to the task at hand?

    Strength training and skills training are two different kinds of training.

    Yet you introduced the analogy...what am I missing?

    Edit: Nevermind, wrong person!
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 45,776 Member
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Were your hands slipping off of the bar, or was your grip just too weak?

    Slipping! My hands were very sweaty.
    Straps it is then.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 503 Member
    edited October 2020
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    If I wanted a basketball player to be stronger in general, I would train them for strength in general...

    I rather train them stronger in general by means that are known to develop strength...
    so strength is general, except when it’s not, like grip strength.

    got it.

  • Chef_Barbell
    Chef_Barbell Posts: 6,279 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Were your hands slipping off of the bar, or was your grip just too weak?

    Slipping! My hands were very sweaty.
    Straps it is then.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    But OP is looking for gloves... this whole thing is so way OT.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,074 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Were your hands slipping off of the bar, or was your grip just too weak?

    Slipping! My hands were very sweaty.
    Straps it is then.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    But OP is looking for gloves... this whole thing is so way OT.

    Indeed - the poor lady started off with sweaty hands and must now have a terrible headache as well.