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Lifting glove advice

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Replies

  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,082 Member
    edited October 2020
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chalk, not gloves but it's really your grip strength you should work on. I'd suggest doing farmers carry's to build grip strength.

    Lmao, I get my fair share of disagree's but I'd love this one to defend it

    Essentially doing farmer's carries makes you better at farmer carries, not deadlift grip compared to actually performing the deadlift grip.

    The specificity isn't very close at all because of how, where, and the movement itself is performed.

    Doing more deadlifts with more reps and eventually higher intensity over time will improve your deadlift grip because of the specificity of the movement, hold angle, leverage, etc...

    If you are adding farmer carries to your programming for "grip work" only. then I'd argue its a poor choice on exercise selection.

    There is nothing wrong with farmers carries especially of you are or have aspirations to be a strongman competitor. The grip simply doesn't carry over well to deadlifts in place of performing a deadlift.

    So yeah specificity is why I don't find farmer's carries a great option for what the OP posted with what we know of his/her training.


    I disagree. Farmers carry's are BOTH a good standalone exercise AND very often recommended to help with grip. Yes, the best way to improve a lift is to train the lift itself, but the specificity lies in the issue at hand, which is grip strength and I stand by the farmers carry as a great way to train grip.

    https://origympersonaltrainercourses.co.uk/blog/farmers-walk-benefits#:~:text=The farmer's walk strengthens your,when they are properly trained.

    https://barbend.com/benefits-of-farmers-walk/

    https://www.verywellfit.com/how-to-do-a-farmer-carry-techniques-benefits-variations-4796615

    https://www.theptdc.com/how-to-improve-grip-strength-with-these-top-exercises-for-hands

    https://www.crossfitinvictus.com/blog/farmer-carries-super-beneficial-yet-widely-underused/

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/farmer-s-walk-cure

    As I said it is good for bettering grip strength for farmer carries. Never said they don't help grip, they just are a much lower option than the deadlift itself if our goal is to improve deadlift grip. Holding weight by your side while walking and at 90 degrees to body for minute(s) compared to a barbell in front of shins, lifting from a dead stop off the ground and hands in a totally different postion for only a fraction of second is a two entirely different grip needs. Can you benefit some grip? Probably minor, certainly not enough to change programming specific to increase grip FOR the deadlift which is what the OP is asking.

    Nothing wrong with them, but not one of the links is "evidence" that it helps deadlifts. Articles can be written about anything and are only a opinion. Usually to sell something in the end advertising, product, etc...

    Think of it this way. I have a basketball athlete who wants to increase her three poit percentage. Do I have her practice free throws or three pointers? Both have simular arm motions, but one is closer to the hoop and feet stay in the ground the other is specific to the task. I wouldn't take out 3pt practice and insert free throw if the goal was to better 3pt percentage. Especially if she wasn't in need of free throw practice.

    If a goal was for someone to increase their deadlift, I wouldn't dose farmer carries in place of deadlifts or a DL variation slot. I would have them deadlift at appropriate volume and intensity. That is the point.

    The fitness industry if full of people suggesting things that are poor advice and a lot of times utterly BS to put out content and make money. Very few of them man up and educate themselves. Allan Thrall comes to mind as one that bettered himself. He put out kitty ccontent years ago and now uses evidence to base his decisions not opinion articles.

    What if accuracy from a distance wasnt the issue, rather she didn't have the strength to get the ball to the net? Then some separate training to increase strength would absolutely be applicable. I agree with you in principle, but not with regards to this specific OP. Shes unable to train the lift with ample volume and intensity because grip is the weak link.

    And its disingenuous to infer an article recommending a movement for increasing grip strength is likely BS simply because it's not accompanied by a study.

    Never seen a basketball player not have the strength to attempt a three pointer that had a goal to improve their three point accuracy.

    You can feel any way you want about a article. I as most other elite athletes and coaches will side that a article is not evidence, just because it's published(no matter how matter how many times) We tend to go by experience and data and when a article "might" be interesting, it's not considered factual because it is published(even often)and in that case it can be deemed harmful in many regards.

    There is a reason elite powerlifters don't train farmers carries if we have grip problems if our goal is to deadlift. If that was the case I assure, we would.

    By your suggestion, a chin up would be just as useful for deadlift grip. But I'd argue it is a different grip within a movement and I wouldn't replace deadlifting with chin ups for increasing grip strength for DL alone. I guarantee there are articles published stating chin ups are deadlift grip builders in some way.

    I would agree FC might have a miniscule and slight carry over to a trap bar deadlift only because hand position, and weight distrubution.



  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,082 Member
    wiigelec wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    If I wanted a basketball player to be stronger in general, I would train them for strength in general...

    I rather train them stronger in general by means that are known to develop strength...
    so strength is general, except when it’s not, like grip strength.

    got it.

    Read what I said again

    I was speaking of two different goals or results and you are grouping them as one goal.

  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 502 Member
    But OP is looking for gloves... this whole thing is so way OT.
    Yes, but there are suitable options, and one should be well informed, no?

  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 502 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    I was speaking of two different goals or results and you are grouping them as one goal.
    okay so:

    general grip strength, as acquired via methods such as farmers walks, is not applicable to the specific grip strength required to deadlift?

    sorry if i’m having a hard time handling this...
  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 502 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    There is a reason elite powerlifters don't train farmers carries if we have grip problems if our goal is to deadlift. If that was the case I assure, we would.
    perhaps it would be prudent, then, to ask the OP if they are an elite powerlifter, since 99.99% of the population are not elite powerlifters, and don’t require or desire to train as such.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,082 Member
    wiigelec wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    There is a reason elite powerlifters don't train farmers carries if we have grip problems if our goal is to deadlift. If that was the case I assure, we would.
    perhaps it would be prudent, then, to ask the OP if they are an elite powerlifter, since 99.99% of the population are not elite powerlifters, and don’t require or desire to train as such.

    You're right. Ask people that have less experience and success and haven't overcome specific issues over many years of training and coaching that are specific the question being asked.

    Give your advice of stop deadlifting and try farmer carries.

    There is a saying that is really good advice

    Try not to be a dik.

    Done with you kid. You crossed the line.
  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 502 Member
    edited October 2020
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Give your advice of stop deadlifting and try farmer carries.
    you must have me confused with another poster, as i never advised replacing deadlifts with farmers carriers.

    my advice was to try chalk...

  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 502 Member
    edited October 2020
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    You're right. Ask people that have less experience and success and haven't overcome specific issues over many years of training and coaching that are specific the question being asked.

    Give your advice of stop deadlifting and try farmer carries.

    There is a saying that is really good advice

    Try not to be a dik.

    Done with you kid. You crossed the line.
    when i graduated college twenty years ago, i was a 6’1” 135# alcoholic drug addict. as a skinny weak male i suffered severe insecurity and self esteem issues, which fed the downward spiral of drinking.

    now i am 44 years old (not a kid), two years sober, 200# and getting stronger. i will never be an elite power lifter, nor as strong as many lifters, but i’m not comparing myself to others. my only measure of success is am i better than i was yesterday; some days yes, some days no.

    your experiences and triumphs, while individual, are not unique. we can agree, we can disagree, but each of our views are valid and worthy of consideration.

    if i offended you i apologize, and you are not alone in your feelings. i just respond to offense differently: by being a smart aleck “dik”.

    respect is a two way street, you gotta give some to get some...

    and my apologies to the op and moderators for derailing the thread.

    - Jeremy
  • cgvet37
    cgvet37 Posts: 1,189 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chalk, not gloves but it's really your grip strength you should work on. I'd suggest doing farmers carry's to build grip strength.

    Lmao, I get my fair share of disagree's but I'd love this one to defend it

    Essentially doing farmer's carries makes you better at farmer carries, not deadlift grip compared to actually performing the deadlift grip.

    The specificity isn't very close at all because of how, where, and the movement itself is performed.

    Doing more deadlifts with more reps and eventually higher intensity over time will improve your deadlift grip because of the specificity of the movement, hold angle, leverage, etc...

    If you are adding farmer carries to your programming for "grip work" only. then I'd argue its a poor choice on exercise selection.

    There is nothing wrong with farmers carries especially of you are or have aspirations to be a strongman competitor. The grip simply doesn't carry over well to deadlifts in place of performing a deadlift.

    So yeah specificity is why I don't find farmer's carries a great option for what the OP posted with what we know of his/her training.


    I disagree. Farmers carry's are BOTH a good standalone exercise AND very often recommended to help with grip. Yes, the best way to improve a lift is to train the lift itself, but the specificity lies in the issue at hand, which is grip strength and I stand by the farmers carry as a great way to train grip.

    https://origympersonaltrainercourses.co.uk/blog/farmers-walk-benefits#:~:text=The farmer's walk strengthens your,when they are properly trained.

    https://barbend.com/benefits-of-farmers-walk/

    https://www.verywellfit.com/how-to-do-a-farmer-carry-techniques-benefits-variations-4796615

    https://www.theptdc.com/how-to-improve-grip-strength-with-these-top-exercises-for-hands

    https://www.crossfitinvictus.com/blog/farmer-carries-super-beneficial-yet-widely-underused/

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/farmer-s-walk-cure

    As I said it is good for bettering grip strength for farmer carries. Never said they don't help grip, they just are a much lower option than the deadlift itself if our goal is to improve deadlift grip. Holding weight by your side while walking and at 90 degrees to body for minute(s) compared to a barbell in front of shins, lifting from a dead stop off the ground and hands in a totally different postion for only a fraction of second is a two entirely different grip needs. Can you benefit some grip? Probably minor, certainly not enough to change programming specific to increase grip FOR the deadlift which is what the OP is asking.

    Nothing wrong with them, but not one of the links is "evidence" that it helps deadlifts. Articles can be written about anything and are only a opinion. Usually to sell something in the end advertising, product, etc...

    Think of it this way. I have a basketball athlete who wants to increase her three poit percentage. Do I have her practice free throws or three pointers? Both have simular arm motions, but one is closer to the hoop and feet stay in the ground the other is specific to the task. I wouldn't take out 3pt practice and insert free throw if the goal was to better 3pt percentage. Especially if she wasn't in need of free throw practice.

    If a goal was for someone to increase their deadlift, I wouldn't dose farmer carries in place of deadlifts or a DL variation slot. I would have them deadlift at appropriate volume and intensity. That is the point.

    The fitness industry if full of people suggesting things that are poor advice and a lot of times utterly BS to put out content and make money. Very few of them man up and educate themselves. Allan Thrall comes to mind as one that bettered himself. He put out kitty ccontent years ago and now uses evidence to base his decisions not opinion articles.

    What if accuracy from a distance wasnt the issue, rather she didn't have the strength to get the ball to the net? Then some separate training to increase strength would absolutely be applicable. I agree with you in principle, but not with regards to this specific OP. Shes unable to train the lift with ample volume and intensity because grip is the weak link.

    And its disingenuous to infer an article recommending a movement for increasing grip strength is likely BS simply because it's not accompanied by a study.

    Never seen a basketball player not have the strength to attempt a three pointer that had a goal to improve their three point accuracy.

    You can feel any way you want about a article. I as most other elite athletes and coaches will side that a article is not evidence, just because it's published(no matter how matter how many times) We tend to go by experience and data and when a article "might" be interesting, it's not considered factual because it is published(even often)and in that case it can be deemed harmful in many regards.

    There is a reason elite powerlifters don't train farmers carries if we have grip problems if our goal is to deadlift. If that was the case I assure, we would.

    By your suggestion, a chin up would be just as useful for deadlift grip. But I'd argue it is a different grip within a movement and I wouldn't replace deadlifting with chin ups for increasing grip strength for DL alone. I guarantee there are articles published stating chin ups are deadlift grip builders in some way.

    I would agree FC might have a miniscule and slight carry over to a trap bar deadlift only because hand position, and weight distrubution.



    Why do Strongmen perform farmers carries?
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,082 Member
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chalk, not gloves but it's really your grip strength you should work on. I'd suggest doing farmers carry's to build grip strength.

    Lmao, I get my fair share of disagree's but I'd love this one to defend it

    Essentially doing farmer's carries makes you better at farmer carries, not deadlift grip compared to actually performing the deadlift grip.

    The specificity isn't very close at all because of how, where, and the movement itself is performed.

    Doing more deadlifts with more reps and eventually higher intensity over time will improve your deadlift grip because of the specificity of the movement, hold angle, leverage, etc...

    If you are adding farmer carries to your programming for "grip work" only. then I'd argue its a poor choice on exercise selection.

    There is nothing wrong with farmers carries especially of you are or have aspirations to be a strongman competitor. The grip simply doesn't carry over well to deadlifts in place of performing a deadlift.

    So yeah specificity is why I don't find farmer's carries a great option for what the OP posted with what we know of his/her training.


    I disagree. Farmers carry's are BOTH a good standalone exercise AND very often recommended to help with grip. Yes, the best way to improve a lift is to train the lift itself, but the specificity lies in the issue at hand, which is grip strength and I stand by the farmers carry as a great way to train grip.

    https://origympersonaltrainercourses.co.uk/blog/farmers-walk-benefits#:~:text=The farmer's walk strengthens your,when they are properly trained.

    https://barbend.com/benefits-of-farmers-walk/

    https://www.verywellfit.com/how-to-do-a-farmer-carry-techniques-benefits-variations-4796615

    https://www.theptdc.com/how-to-improve-grip-strength-with-these-top-exercises-for-hands

    https://www.crossfitinvictus.com/blog/farmer-carries-super-beneficial-yet-widely-underused/

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/farmer-s-walk-cure

    As I said it is good for bettering grip strength for farmer carries. Never said they don't help grip, they just are a much lower option than the deadlift itself if our goal is to improve deadlift grip. Holding weight by your side while walking and at 90 degrees to body for minute(s) compared to a barbell in front of shins, lifting from a dead stop off the ground and hands in a totally different postion for only a fraction of second is a two entirely different grip needs. Can you benefit some grip? Probably minor, certainly not enough to change programming specific to increase grip FOR the deadlift which is what the OP is asking.

    Nothing wrong with them, but not one of the links is "evidence" that it helps deadlifts. Articles can be written about anything and are only a opinion. Usually to sell something in the end advertising, product, etc...

    Think of it this way. I have a basketball athlete who wants to increase her three poit percentage. Do I have her practice free throws or three pointers? Both have simular arm motions, but one is closer to the hoop and feet stay in the ground the other is specific to the task. I wouldn't take out 3pt practice and insert free throw if the goal was to better 3pt percentage. Especially if she wasn't in need of free throw practice.

    If a goal was for someone to increase their deadlift, I wouldn't dose farmer carries in place of deadlifts or a DL variation slot. I would have them deadlift at appropriate volume and intensity. That is the point.

    The fitness industry if full of people suggesting things that are poor advice and a lot of times utterly BS to put out content and make money. Very few of them man up and educate themselves. Allan Thrall comes to mind as one that bettered himself. He put out kitty ccontent years ago and now uses evidence to base his decisions not opinion articles.

    What if accuracy from a distance wasnt the issue, rather she didn't have the strength to get the ball to the net? Then some separate training to increase strength would absolutely be applicable. I agree with you in principle, but not with regards to this specific OP. Shes unable to train the lift with ample volume and intensity because grip is the weak link.

    And its disingenuous to infer an article recommending a movement for increasing grip strength is likely BS simply because it's not accompanied by a study.

    Never seen a basketball player not have the strength to attempt a three pointer that had a goal to improve their three point accuracy.

    You can feel any way you want about a article. I as most other elite athletes and coaches will side that a article is not evidence, just because it's published(no matter how matter how many times) We tend to go by experience and data and when a article "might" be interesting, it's not considered factual because it is published(even often)and in that case it can be deemed harmful in many regards.

    There is a reason elite powerlifters don't train farmers carries if we have grip problems if our goal is to deadlift. If that was the case I assure, we would.

    By your suggestion, a chin up would be just as useful for deadlift grip. But I'd argue it is a different grip within a movement and I wouldn't replace deadlifting with chin ups for increasing grip strength for DL alone. I guarantee there are articles published stating chin ups are deadlift grip builders in some way.

    I would agree FC might have a miniscule and slight carry over to a trap bar deadlift only because hand position, and weight distrubution.



    Why do Strongmen perform farmers carries?

    It's a specific event for when they compete in their sport.. There also might perform duck walks, suitcase carry, and yokes during comps.. All have simular demands and would have some carry over to and from FC.

    Highland games also have certain events that I might find farmers carries useful for training though I'm not as familiar with HG which is odd being good friends with a master's champ...lol.
  • claireychn074
    claireychn074 Posts: 588 Member
    Hi team,
    Today I managed to deadlift 60kgs / 130lbs, but couldn’t manage more due to grip. Gym suggested buying gloves.
    Does anyone have any tips about what I am looking for? What makes a good glove?
    This conversation has been derailed slightly for the OP! @JessiBelleW - try the cheapest options first to decide if you like them. Chalk helps enormously if your hands get sweaty; when your grip goes you can try mixed grip or hookgrip (your trainer should be able to show you those), then is there anyone in the gym you could ask to borrow straps from? Gloves are a bit more tricky as they can be sweaty, but I always have two pairs of straps and various knee wraps etc and have loaned them in the past to friends (possibly not COVID secure now I guess). Then when you know what you like and dislike, you can invest yourself without wasting money. Have fun!
  • cgvet37
    cgvet37 Posts: 1,189 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Chalk, not gloves but it's really your grip strength you should work on. I'd suggest doing farmers carry's to build grip strength.

    Lmao, I get my fair share of disagree's but I'd love this one to defend it

    Essentially doing farmer's carries makes you better at farmer carries, not deadlift grip compared to actually performing the deadlift grip.

    The specificity isn't very close at all because of how, where, and the movement itself is performed.

    Doing more deadlifts with more reps and eventually higher intensity over time will improve your deadlift grip because of the specificity of the movement, hold angle, leverage, etc...

    If you are adding farmer carries to your programming for "grip work" only. then I'd argue its a poor choice on exercise selection.

    There is nothing wrong with farmers carries especially of you are or have aspirations to be a strongman competitor. The grip simply doesn't carry over well to deadlifts in place of performing a deadlift.

    So yeah specificity is why I don't find farmer's carries a great option for what the OP posted with what we know of his/her training.


    I disagree. Farmers carry's are BOTH a good standalone exercise AND very often recommended to help with grip. Yes, the best way to improve a lift is to train the lift itself, but the specificity lies in the issue at hand, which is grip strength and I stand by the farmers carry as a great way to train grip.

    https://origympersonaltrainercourses.co.uk/blog/farmers-walk-benefits#:~:text=The farmer's walk strengthens your,when they are properly trained.

    https://barbend.com/benefits-of-farmers-walk/

    https://www.verywellfit.com/how-to-do-a-farmer-carry-techniques-benefits-variations-4796615

    https://www.theptdc.com/how-to-improve-grip-strength-with-these-top-exercises-for-hands

    https://www.crossfitinvictus.com/blog/farmer-carries-super-beneficial-yet-widely-underused/

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/farmer-s-walk-cure

    As I said it is good for bettering grip strength for farmer carries. Never said they don't help grip, they just are a much lower option than the deadlift itself if our goal is to improve deadlift grip. Holding weight by your side while walking and at 90 degrees to body for minute(s) compared to a barbell in front of shins, lifting from a dead stop off the ground and hands in a totally different postion for only a fraction of second is a two entirely different grip needs. Can you benefit some grip? Probably minor, certainly not enough to change programming specific to increase grip FOR the deadlift which is what the OP is asking.

    Nothing wrong with them, but not one of the links is "evidence" that it helps deadlifts. Articles can be written about anything and are only a opinion. Usually to sell something in the end advertising, product, etc...

    Think of it this way. I have a basketball athlete who wants to increase her three poit percentage. Do I have her practice free throws or three pointers? Both have simular arm motions, but one is closer to the hoop and feet stay in the ground the other is specific to the task. I wouldn't take out 3pt practice and insert free throw if the goal was to better 3pt percentage. Especially if she wasn't in need of free throw practice.

    If a goal was for someone to increase their deadlift, I wouldn't dose farmer carries in place of deadlifts or a DL variation slot. I would have them deadlift at appropriate volume and intensity. That is the point.

    The fitness industry if full of people suggesting things that are poor advice and a lot of times utterly BS to put out content and make money. Very few of them man up and educate themselves. Allan Thrall comes to mind as one that bettered himself. He put out kitty ccontent years ago and now uses evidence to base his decisions not opinion articles.

    What if accuracy from a distance wasnt the issue, rather she didn't have the strength to get the ball to the net? Then some separate training to increase strength would absolutely be applicable. I agree with you in principle, but not with regards to this specific OP. Shes unable to train the lift with ample volume and intensity because grip is the weak link.

    And its disingenuous to infer an article recommending a movement for increasing grip strength is likely BS simply because it's not accompanied by a study.

    Never seen a basketball player not have the strength to attempt a three pointer that had a goal to improve their three point accuracy.

    You can feel any way you want about a article. I as most other elite athletes and coaches will side that a article is not evidence, just because it's published(no matter how matter how many times) We tend to go by experience and data and when a article "might" be interesting, it's not considered factual because it is published(even often)and in that case it can be deemed harmful in many regards.

    There is a reason elite powerlifters don't train farmers carries if we have grip problems if our goal is to deadlift. If that was the case I assure, we would.

    By your suggestion, a chin up would be just as useful for deadlift grip. But I'd argue it is a different grip within a movement and I wouldn't replace deadlifting with chin ups for increasing grip strength for DL alone. I guarantee there are articles published stating chin ups are deadlift grip builders in some way.

    I would agree FC might have a miniscule and slight carry over to a trap bar deadlift only because hand position, and weight distrubution.



    Why do Strongmen perform farmers carries?

    It's a specific event for when they compete in their sport.. There also might perform duck walks, suitcase carry, and yokes during comps.. All have simular demands and would have some carry over to and from FC.

    Highland games also have certain events that I might find farmers carries useful for training though I'm not as familiar with HG which is odd being good friends with a master's champ...lol.

    They build grip strength, period. You can't do heavy farmers carries with a weak grip.