Coronavirus prep
Replies
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I think my work just made a mistake. In order to strongly discourage employees from either traveling out of state or having visitors from out of state for Thanksgiving or Christmas, they are requiring 14 days of quarantine if you travel or have out of state visitors...that's actually nothing new...the new wrinkle is that instead of teleworking for those 2 weeks as has been done previously, you are now required to use your annual leave and get written permission from on high to either travel or have someone out of state travel to you.
For the most part, from what I've heard around the water cooler and break room is that most people aren't planning on anything big...but so and so's kid will be visiting from Texas or so and so's husband's mom will be visiting from Arizona, etc...but by and large people don't seem to be planning large get togethers.
The punitive nature of this new mandate is already causing problems, and it's only Monday afternoon. I'm in management and I'm already getting things like, "my husband doesn't care if I have permission or not, he told me that he's not your employee and his mom will be visiting from Texas for Christmas." We also have a lot of employees with grown children who live out of state and while not planning a big tadoo for the holidays, they will be visiting back home. One of those people is our primary IT guy and he's basically said, "fine...I'll use my annual leave, but don't bother calling, because my phone and email will be off if I'm on a forced vacation." Another employee is upset because his sister lives in state, but works in southern Colorado so she commutes out of state daily and as such is considered to be an "out of state" visitor.
The bigger issue I think is that you're going to basically have a lot of people just lying about it and saying they aren't traveling or hosting out of state visitors when they really are and thus avoiding any quarantine period whatsoever, when in the past they would have complied with the quarantine period and just teleworked. On the other side, you're going to have people comply...and fully comply in that since they are on annual leave, they will not be available and responding to emails or phone calls.
We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I think the higher ups made a bigger mess of all of this than it already was...I'm hoping they might walk back some of it.20 -
paperpudding wrote: »Really the person buying the wine should be the only one checked.. bit odd. I never take my phone or purse anywhere usually if with dh. I don't really need to.
that is not the case in SA.
Any situation where there is a possibility of an adult buying for a minor, both parties will have ID checked.
and sale to the adult can be refused if the person with them is a minor who could be the real reciprient of the purchase.
so, somebody posted what about if you have a baby or young child you can't leave outside the shop?
Rule wouldnt apply as there is no realistic possibility of the alcohol being purchased for the infant.
(yes I realise this has no relevance to US poster's situation - but just to answer point raised in quoted post.)
I didn't say anything about going in or buying for a minor. Of course they'd check if that was the case. I am over 50 and so is dh so why you even said this I don't get. I was talking about a couple of ADULTS going in together as the OP did. NO kids involved. Just her and partner! Where are the kids in this?
It was just a general clarification following your comment - "Only the one buying should be checked" - it wasnt a comment on your specific experience.
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Not so good news from South Australia - after being community transmission free for months - we have had cases but they are returnees in supervised quarantine - but Oh no! - a cluster emerges connected to a cleaner in one of the quarantine hotels
Other states have now closed their borders to us - some people were on flights to WA only to get there and be sent back
and new restrictions brought back in - gyms closed, restrictions on funerals, religious meetings, spaceing everywhere back to 1 per 4 sq metres, sports all cancelled.
At this stage for 2 weeks.12 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I think my work just made a mistake. In order to strongly discourage employees from either traveling out of state or having visitors from out of state for Thanksgiving or Christmas, they are requiring 14 days of quarantine if you travel or have out of state visitors...that's actually nothing new...the new wrinkle is that instead of teleworking for those 2 weeks as has been done previously, you are now required to use your annual leave and get written permission from on high to either travel or have someone out of state travel to you.
For the most part, from what I've heard around the water cooler and break room is that most people aren't planning on anything big...but so and so's kid will be visiting from Texas or so and so's husband's mom will be visiting from Arizona, etc...but by and large people don't seem to be planning large get togethers.
The punitive nature of this new mandate is already causing problems, and it's only Monday afternoon. I'm in management and I'm already getting things like, "my husband doesn't care if I have permission or not, he told me that he's not your employee and his mom will be visiting from Texas for Christmas." We also have a lot of employees with grown children who live out of state and while not planning a big tadoo for the holidays, they will be visiting back home. One of those people is our primary IT guy and he's basically said, "fine...I'll use my annual leave, but don't bother calling, because my phone and email will be off if I'm on a forced vacation." Another employee is upset because his sister lives in state, but works in southern Colorado so she commutes out of state daily and as such is considered to be an "out of state" visitor.
The bigger issue I think is that you're going to basically have a lot of people just lying about it and saying they aren't traveling or hosting out of state visitors when they really are and thus avoiding any quarantine period whatsoever, when in the past they would have complied with the quarantine period and just teleworked. On the other side, you're going to have people comply...and fully comply in that since they are on annual leave, they will not be available and responding to emails or phone calls.
We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I think the higher ups made a bigger mess of all of this than it already was...I'm hoping they might walk back some of it.
@cwolfman13 My company put something similar in place in Aug. It is a bit less restrictive than what you described, though. Basically, if you travel to a "red zone state," you can't come into a facility for 14 days. The corporate policy doesn't specify whether you take leave or WFH, but my location's HR manager has decided that nobody is allowed to WFH no matter what. I've been able to get an exception approved from way above her head (VP and General Manager of our division) to WFH anyway, but it has become this whole big political issue. Anyway, the "red zone state" list is updated each Monday morning and includes all states with a 10% or higher positivity rate for the prior 7 days. If we live in a state on the red zone list, we are exempted for that state. But not other states. I'm in TN, which is on that list. Our plant is close to AR, MO, and KY. Anyone who lives in those states is able to go to/from home without concern. But people who want to go to MO to buy beer (this is actually a thing people do) or wherever are technically not supposed to come back to work for 2 weeks whenever MO is on that list (it has been most or all of the time since that policy was made). Everyone travels around just as much as they always did, but they talk about it less now.7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
Our daily self-screen questionnaire has the runny nose question but includes the phrase "not due to seasonal allergies".
We have to ask permission to leave our district but fortunately it's a very large district.2 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think my work just made a mistake. In order to strongly discourage employees from either traveling out of state or having visitors from out of state for Thanksgiving or Christmas, they are requiring 14 days of quarantine if you travel or have out of state visitors...that's actually nothing new...the new wrinkle is that instead of teleworking for those 2 weeks as has been done previously, you are now required to use your annual leave and get written permission from on high to either travel or have someone out of state travel to you.
For the most part, from what I've heard around the water cooler and break room is that most people aren't planning on anything big...but so and so's kid will be visiting from Texas or so and so's husband's mom will be visiting from Arizona, etc...but by and large people don't seem to be planning large get togethers.
The punitive nature of this new mandate is already causing problems, and it's only Monday afternoon. I'm in management and I'm already getting things like, "my husband doesn't care if I have permission or not, he told me that he's not your employee and his mom will be visiting from Texas for Christmas." We also have a lot of employees with grown children who live out of state and while not planning a big tadoo for the holidays, they will be visiting back home. One of those people is our primary IT guy and he's basically said, "fine...I'll use my annual leave, but don't bother calling, because my phone and email will be off if I'm on a forced vacation." Another employee is upset because his sister lives in state, but works in southern Colorado so she commutes out of state daily and as such is considered to be an "out of state" visitor.
The bigger issue I think is that you're going to basically have a lot of people just lying about it and saying they aren't traveling or hosting out of state visitors when they really are and thus avoiding any quarantine period whatsoever, when in the past they would have complied with the quarantine period and just teleworked. On the other side, you're going to have people comply...and fully comply in that since they are on annual leave, they will not be available and responding to emails or phone calls.
We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I think the higher ups made a bigger mess of all of this than it already was...I'm hoping they might walk back some of it.
@cwolfman13 My company put something similar in place in Aug. It is a bit less restrictive than what you described, though. Basically, if you travel to a "red zone state," you can't come into a facility for 14 days. The corporate policy doesn't specify whether you take leave or WFH, but my location's HR manager has decided that nobody is allowed to WFH no matter what. I've been able to get an exception approved from way above her head (VP and General Manager of our division) to WFH anyway, but it has become this whole big political issue. Anyway, the "red zone state" list is updated each Monday morning and includes all states with a 10% or higher positivity rate for the prior 7 days. If we live in a state on the red zone list, we are exempted for that state. But not other states. I'm in TN, which is on that list. Our plant is close to AR, MO, and KY. Anyone who lives in those states is able to go to/from home without concern. But people who want to go to MO to buy beer (this is actually a thing people do) or wherever are technically not supposed to come back to work for 2 weeks whenever MO is on that list (it has been most or all of the time since that policy was made). Everyone travels around just as much as they always did, but they talk about it less now.
No way to enforce. HR gone awry IMO.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I just saw this online. I am sure that people want to spend Thanksgiving with friends and families, I do; however, it is risky. Better staying home enjoying the turkey on your own or with only people already in your bubble.
Yes, I get it is not fun and it is depressing, but I think that being in the hospital with tubes up your…. may be worse.
Don't rely on a negative test result to see your family for Thanksgiving
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/16/health/thanksgiving-family-covid-testing-wellness/index.html
My key takeaway:
"The study estimated that during four days of infection before symptoms typically started, the probability of getting an incorrect/negative test result on Day 1 was 100%."
All those same %'s were in the MIT article I put up a few weeks ago. Those %'s and facts are not new info. But its good to have it brought up again as a reminder!1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I think my work just made a mistake. In order to strongly discourage employees from either traveling out of state or having visitors from out of state for Thanksgiving or Christmas, they are requiring 14 days of quarantine if you travel or have out of state visitors...that's actually nothing new...the new wrinkle is that instead of teleworking for those 2 weeks as has been done previously, you are now required to use your annual leave and get written permission from on high to either travel or have someone out of state travel to you.
For the most part, from what I've heard around the water cooler and break room is that most people aren't planning on anything big...but so and so's kid will be visiting from Texas or so and so's husband's mom will be visiting from Arizona, etc...but by and large people don't seem to be planning large get togethers.
The punitive nature of this new mandate is already causing problems, and it's only Monday afternoon. I'm in management and I'm already getting things like, "my husband doesn't care if I have permission or not, he told me that he's not your employee and his mom will be visiting from Texas for Christmas." We also have a lot of employees with grown children who live out of state and while not planning a big tadoo for the holidays, they will be visiting back home. One of those people is our primary IT guy and he's basically said, "fine...I'll use my annual leave, but don't bother calling, because my phone and email will be off if I'm on a forced vacation." Another employee is upset because his sister lives in state, but works in southern Colorado so she commutes out of state daily and as such is considered to be an "out of state" visitor.
The bigger issue I think is that you're going to basically have a lot of people just lying about it and saying they aren't traveling or hosting out of state visitors when they really are and thus avoiding any quarantine period whatsoever, when in the past they would have complied with the quarantine period and just teleworked. On the other side, you're going to have people comply...and fully comply in that since they are on annual leave, they will not be available and responding to emails or phone calls.
We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I think the higher ups made a bigger mess of all of this than it already was...I'm hoping they might walk back some of it.
I am constantly shocked about how people/companies/government don't always foresee the potential unintended responses they trigger with their edicts.4 -
I don't know if this has already been posted, but it's a sobering read.
https://theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/11/third-surge-breaking-healthcare-workers/617091/11 -
Eldest Son is quarantining in his end of my mom's big house because he goes to welding school with people who don't believe in masks. So I'll send him food from Thanksgiving home with my mom. (sigh)
Stupid people everywhere. (sigh) I saw a segment from CNN where a nurse was talking about how even when told that they need to call their kids/parents/SO and say whatever they need to because they're going to be intubated, people say, "Nah, I don't have COVID, I'm fine, I'll get better". And they get ANGRY at the nurse for breaking it to them that, no, really, you do have COVID, that's why you can't breathe. They'd rather believe they have lung cancer.
I...can't even. Not at all.17 -
AlexandraFindsHerself1971 wrote: »Eldest Son is quarantining in his end of my mom's big house because he goes to welding school with people who don't believe in masks.
Alex, how many times do I have to tell you to pull that mask down?! Do you want to burn your retinas? Or get covid?
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »AlexandraFindsHerself1971 wrote: »Eldest Son is quarantining in his end of my mom's big house because he goes to welding school with people who don't believe in masks.
Alex, how many times do I have to tell you to pull that mask down?! Do you want to burn your retinas? Or get covid?
Nah, welders don't need masks... That's just big government forcing people to stay alive and not injured! (sarcasm)
ETA: I realize this guy is cutting, not welding... still probably should be wearing some safety goggles and probably doing this in a location slightly further from the propane.
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AlexandraFindsHerself1971 wrote: »Eldest Son is quarantining in his end of my mom's big house because he goes to welding school with people who don't believe in masks. So I'll send him food from Thanksgiving home with my mom. (sigh)
Stupid people everywhere. (sigh) I saw a segment from CNN where a nurse was talking about how even when told that they need to call their kids/parents/SO and say whatever they need to because they're going to be intubated, people say, "Nah, I don't have COVID, I'm fine, I'll get better". And they get ANGRY at the nurse for breaking it to them that, no, really, you do have COVID, that's why you can't breathe. They'd rather believe they have lung cancer.
I...can't even. Not at all.
The nurse from South Dakota?
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/526204-south-dakota-nurse-says-many-dying-patients-still-insist-covid-19-not
A South Dakota emergency room nurse on Monday expressed frustration that many of her patients don't believe they are dying of COVID-19.
Jodi Doering's tweet went viral on social media over the weekend after she tweeted about patients who "don't believe the virus is real ... while gasping for breath on 100% Vapotherm."
"It wasn't one particular patient, it's just a culmination of so many people," Doering told CNN's "New Day." "And their last, dying words are, 'This can't be happening. It's not real.' "
..."People want it to be influenza, they want it to be pneumonia," Doering said. "We've even had people say, 'You know, I think it might be lung cancer.' ... Even after positive results come back, some people just don't believe it."
Doering said multiple patients target nurses like her with their "anger and hatred."
"They call you names and ask why you have to wear all that 'stuff' because they don't have COVID because it's not real," she tweeted on Saturday.10 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »AlexandraFindsHerself1971 wrote: »Eldest Son is quarantining in his end of my mom's big house because he goes to welding school with people who don't believe in masks.
Alex, how many times do I have to tell you to pull that mask down?! Do you want to burn your retinas? Or get covid?
Nah, welders don't need masks... That's just big government forcing people to stay alive and not injured! (sarcasm)
ETA: I realize this guy is cutting, not welding... still probably should be wearing some safety goggles and probably doing this in a location slightly further from the propane.
Yup. I was wondering if he lost the key to the padlock and felt this was his only option. I'm risk averse. I'd pony up for a locksmith.1 -
AlexandraFindsHerself1971 wrote: »Eldest Son is quarantining in his end of my mom's big house because he goes to welding school with people who don't believe in masks. So I'll send him food from Thanksgiving home with my mom. (sigh)
Stupid people everywhere. (sigh) I saw a segment from CNN where a nurse was talking about how even when told that they need to call their kids/parents/SO and say whatever they need to because they're going to be intubated, people say, "Nah, I don't have COVID, I'm fine, I'll get better". And they get ANGRY at the nurse for breaking it to them that, no, really, you do have COVID, that's why you can't breathe. They'd rather believe they have lung cancer.
I...can't even. Not at all.
We have some close friends. They are older -- late 70s. One of their grandkids was leaving TX to go to OK when the bars in TX were shut down. Over the Summer, he came down with "flu like" symptoms. Had a hard time breathing, cold symptoms, chills, sore throat and had a hard time sleeping. The entire family didn't quarantine, even their doctor didn't test the kid -- didn't believe (for political reasons) in Covid. This is a LOT more common than people want to believe. Super spreaders going around, refusing to acknowledge science, in denial in their minds. Our friends were mortified of their behavior and refusal to get tested.
I have known five people from my family that have had it, one died (an older relative in her 80s). Only two of the five got tested. The one who died didn't as far as I know. My son had it and didn't test. He isolated for two weeks but didn't get tested as the symptoms were fairly mild except for three days for him. So many more people have had it than the official numbers, in my honest opinion. We are hearing 10%. I think the numbers are already more than 20%. Just my belief from observations I've seen. When roughly half the population will attribute it, in their minds, to allergies or just a simple cold/flu, and never get tested or isolate, you have the catastrophe that is unfolding.7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I would have been on quarantine since September. My fall allergies have been horrid this year. Since September I have been dealing with a runny OR stuff nose and cough. I have been Covid tested during this time and it was negative (due to possible exposure). Since the weather turned cold again (yay) it has gotten better but I still have a slight cough and sinus congestion.
Indiana update from yesterday...
5,218 NEW cases
26 NEW deaths
11.7% positive test rate over the last 7 days
26.2% ICU bed availability statewide
In some areas though, we literally do not have any hospital beds. None. Not ICU and not anywhere else. These hospitals can not take in any more patients so they are having to send people elsewhere or turn them away. They are having to cancel procedures because they have no where to put them.
Schools are closing more and more each day because SO many students and faculty are out due to exposures. They don't have enough teachers or aides to run classes in person or even supervise the kids. So virtual learning it must be.7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I would have been on quarantine since September. My fall allergies have been horrid this year. Since September I have been dealing with a runny OR stuff nose and cough. I have been Covid tested during this time and it was negative (due to possible exposure). Since the weather turned cold again (yay) it has gotten better but I still have a slight cough and sinus congestion.
Indiana update from yesterday...
5,218 NEW cases
26 NEW deaths
11.7% positive test rate over the last 7 days
26.2% ICU bed availability statewide
In some areas though, we literally do not have any hospital beds. None. Not ICU and not anywhere else. These hospitals can not take in any more patients so they are having to send people elsewhere or turn them away. They are having to cancel procedures because they have no where to put them.
Schools are closing more and more each day because SO many students and faculty are out due to exposures. They don't have enough teachers or aides to run classes in person or even supervise the kids. So virtual learning it must be.
Central Indiana schools are not closing for that reason - they are closing because the mayor of Indianapolis demanded that we go back to virtual regardless of how many people are out in your school or the safety plans that are in place. Tertiary hospitals are close to capacity, but many of the Covid patients who are being sent to other hospitals aren't being done because of lack of space (though lets be honest those tertiary hospitals in the rural areas are not meant for any type of capacity, more often for small illnesses and stabilization before being sent to another hospital), but rather that they need more care which those hospitals can't provide. Our hospitals are also being impacted by hospitalizations that have nothing to do with Covid as fall is typically a time of year when we see increases in our hospital census anyway. Am I saying there's not a rise in Covid currently? No but it's good news that most of the new admissions for Covid are not that serious as at one hospital group only 36% of vents and 21% of HFNC are being utilized. And at least some hospitals have ICU beds open so let's not freak people out and be all judgmental. Maybe we should focus on the positives.2 -
My state's DOH has admitted they count NICU beds in with the 40% of ICU beds available, but still won't say how many that is.
Some of the smaller rural schools are returning to remote learning because they can't find substitute teachers. Fortunately, they have the equipment and plans in place now. Because of the springtime closures, they also know which students struggle with remote learning and have extra tutoring to help. I don't think it's a coincidence that the steep rise in cases happened after school resumed here.
I'm afraid things are going to get much, much worse as winter progresses.7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I think my work just made a mistake. In order to strongly discourage employees from either traveling out of state or having visitors from out of state for Thanksgiving or Christmas, they are requiring 14 days of quarantine if you travel or have out of state visitors...that's actually nothing new...the new wrinkle is that instead of teleworking for those 2 weeks as has been done previously, you are now required to use your annual leave and get written permission from on high to either travel or have someone out of state travel to you.
For the most part, from what I've heard around the water cooler and break room is that most people aren't planning on anything big...but so and so's kid will be visiting from Texas or so and so's husband's mom will be visiting from Arizona, etc...but by and large people don't seem to be planning large get togethers.
The punitive nature of this new mandate is already causing problems, and it's only Monday afternoon. I'm in management and I'm already getting things like, "my husband doesn't care if I have permission or not, he told me that he's not your employee and his mom will be visiting from Texas for Christmas." We also have a lot of employees with grown children who live out of state and while not planning a big tadoo for the holidays, they will be visiting back home. One of those people is our primary IT guy and he's basically said, "fine...I'll use my annual leave, but don't bother calling, because my phone and email will be off if I'm on a forced vacation." Another employee is upset because his sister lives in state, but works in southern Colorado so she commutes out of state daily and as such is considered to be an "out of state" visitor.
The bigger issue I think is that you're going to basically have a lot of people just lying about it and saying they aren't traveling or hosting out of state visitors when they really are and thus avoiding any quarantine period whatsoever, when in the past they would have complied with the quarantine period and just teleworked. On the other side, you're going to have people comply...and fully comply in that since they are on annual leave, they will not be available and responding to emails or phone calls.
We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I think the higher ups made a bigger mess of all of this than it already was...I'm hoping they might walk back some of it.
I am constantly shocked about how people/companies/government don't always foresee the potential unintended responses they trigger with their edicts.
Yeah...I talked with my boss yesterday about this as I have more interaction with the rank and file and told him that we went from having a pretty compliant workforce with overall positive morale to a defiant workforce with about zero morale overnight. We already had pretty strict requirements in place...but making people who can otherwise work at home in quarantine use their leave pissed everyone off.14 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »AlexandraFindsHerself1971 wrote: »Eldest Son is quarantining in his end of my mom's big house because he goes to welding school with people who don't believe in masks.
Alex, how many times do I have to tell you to pull that mask down?! Do you want to burn your retinas? Or get covid?
Nah, welders don't need masks... That's just big government forcing people to stay alive and not injured! (sarcasm)
ETA: I realize this guy is cutting, not welding... still probably should be wearing some safety goggles and probably doing this in a location slightly further from the propane.
Yup. I was wondering if he lost the key to the padlock and felt this was his only option. I'm risk averse. I'd pony up for a locksmith.
I don't think that is it. It looks like he is cutting this piece of metal and didn't have a bench to set it on while he cut it, so opted to set it down on top of this propane cabinet. I don't think it is attached to anything presently.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think my work just made a mistake. In order to strongly discourage employees from either traveling out of state or having visitors from out of state for Thanksgiving or Christmas, they are requiring 14 days of quarantine if you travel or have out of state visitors...that's actually nothing new...the new wrinkle is that instead of teleworking for those 2 weeks as has been done previously, you are now required to use your annual leave and get written permission from on high to either travel or have someone out of state travel to you.
For the most part, from what I've heard around the water cooler and break room is that most people aren't planning on anything big...but so and so's kid will be visiting from Texas or so and so's husband's mom will be visiting from Arizona, etc...but by and large people don't seem to be planning large get togethers.
The punitive nature of this new mandate is already causing problems, and it's only Monday afternoon. I'm in management and I'm already getting things like, "my husband doesn't care if I have permission or not, he told me that he's not your employee and his mom will be visiting from Texas for Christmas." We also have a lot of employees with grown children who live out of state and while not planning a big tadoo for the holidays, they will be visiting back home. One of those people is our primary IT guy and he's basically said, "fine...I'll use my annual leave, but don't bother calling, because my phone and email will be off if I'm on a forced vacation." Another employee is upset because his sister lives in state, but works in southern Colorado so she commutes out of state daily and as such is considered to be an "out of state" visitor.
The bigger issue I think is that you're going to basically have a lot of people just lying about it and saying they aren't traveling or hosting out of state visitors when they really are and thus avoiding any quarantine period whatsoever, when in the past they would have complied with the quarantine period and just teleworked. On the other side, you're going to have people comply...and fully comply in that since they are on annual leave, they will not be available and responding to emails or phone calls.
We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I think the higher ups made a bigger mess of all of this than it already was...I'm hoping they might walk back some of it.
I am constantly shocked about how people/companies/government don't always foresee the potential unintended responses they trigger with their edicts.
Yeah...I talked with my boss yesterday about this as I have more interaction with the rank and file and told him that we went from having a pretty compliant workforce with overall positive morale to a defiant workforce with about zero morale overnight. We already had pretty strict requirements in place...but making people who can otherwise work at home in quarantine use their leave pissed everyone off.
All around, just such a bad idea.
In Massachusetts, our Governor instituted a new stricter policy that causes one to question their judgement. He went from masks outside if cannot maintain 6 ft, to masks outside no matter what even if no one is in sight. So, where I live, land lots are 1 acre minimum with tracts of woods interspersed. When I go out walking, even if I see someone, it is very easy to remain a distance of 20 feet away. In that setting it makes no sense, and there are towns even more rural than mine. When one rule is not logically defined and makes no sense, it brings one to also question the well defined rules. Do note that I am not critiquing mask use, I am critiquing requiring them illogically and thus potentially decreasing compliance in all the important scenarios.
One person critiquing Governor Bakers new mask edict compared it to instructing people to wear a condom when alone so that they will remember to wear one when having sex. (I actually toned down the comparison slightly.)15 -
Just another science article demonstrating how little we actually know about Covid-19 so far.
https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/study-respiratory-failure-in-covid-19-patients-usually-not-driven-by-cytokine-storm/3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think my work just made a mistake. In order to strongly discourage employees from either traveling out of state or having visitors from out of state for Thanksgiving or Christmas, they are requiring 14 days of quarantine if you travel or have out of state visitors...that's actually nothing new...the new wrinkle is that instead of teleworking for those 2 weeks as has been done previously, you are now required to use your annual leave and get written permission from on high to either travel or have someone out of state travel to you.
For the most part, from what I've heard around the water cooler and break room is that most people aren't planning on anything big...but so and so's kid will be visiting from Texas or so and so's husband's mom will be visiting from Arizona, etc...but by and large people don't seem to be planning large get togethers.
The punitive nature of this new mandate is already causing problems, and it's only Monday afternoon. I'm in management and I'm already getting things like, "my husband doesn't care if I have permission or not, he told me that he's not your employee and his mom will be visiting from Texas for Christmas." We also have a lot of employees with grown children who live out of state and while not planning a big tadoo for the holidays, they will be visiting back home. One of those people is our primary IT guy and he's basically said, "fine...I'll use my annual leave, but don't bother calling, because my phone and email will be off if I'm on a forced vacation." Another employee is upset because his sister lives in state, but works in southern Colorado so she commutes out of state daily and as such is considered to be an "out of state" visitor.
The bigger issue I think is that you're going to basically have a lot of people just lying about it and saying they aren't traveling or hosting out of state visitors when they really are and thus avoiding any quarantine period whatsoever, when in the past they would have complied with the quarantine period and just teleworked. On the other side, you're going to have people comply...and fully comply in that since they are on annual leave, they will not be available and responding to emails or phone calls.
We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I think the higher ups made a bigger mess of all of this than it already was...I'm hoping they might walk back some of it.
I am constantly shocked about how people/companies/government don't always foresee the potential unintended responses they trigger with their edicts.
Yeah...I talked with my boss yesterday about this as I have more interaction with the rank and file and told him that we went from having a pretty compliant workforce with overall positive morale to a defiant workforce with about zero morale overnight. We already had pretty strict requirements in place...but making people who can otherwise work at home in quarantine use their leave pissed everyone off.
All around, just such a bad idea.
In Massachusetts, our Governor instituted a new stricter policy that causes one to question their judgement. He went from masks outside if cannot maintain 6 ft, to masks outside no matter what even if no one is in sight. So, where I live, land lots are 1 acre minimum with tracts of woods interspersed. When I go out walking, even if I see someone, it is very easy to remain a distance of 20 feet away. In that setting it makes no sense, and there are towns even more rural than mine. When one rule is not logically defined and makes no sense, it brings one to also question the well defined rules. Do note that I am not critiquing mask use, I am critiquing requiring them illogically and thus potentially decreasing compliance in all the important scenarios.
One person critiquing Governor Bakers new mask edict compared it to instructing people to wear a condom when alone so that they will remember to wear one when having sex. (I actually toned down the comparison slightly.)
Meanwhile, there are parts of the US with no mask requirements at all still or they are not enforced nor followed anyway.
One of the manufacturing plants I support (remotely) has about 15% of its employees out right now either because they have tested positive, have symptoms, or have recent exposure (this is a small part of the overall group). The plant is not requiring people with exposure to stay away, just if symptomatic or tested positive. There are some who are working still whose work spaces are near other employees who tested positive and are out, for example. This particular community is a small town, but has a larger "regional" hospital in the community. What I've heard is that the hospital is full, as are all other nearby smaller hospitals in other rural cities that are within about 30 miles. That anyone is taking any risk at all there tells me they assume they will not need a hospital bed or that they will be able to travel to another state (2 hr. drive) where there are some spots left. Hopefully they don't wait until their O2 levels are at a dangerous level before leaving to go that far.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »The last three times i tried to donate blood I was rejected because I was slightly anemic. I gave up. Since then the anemia has gotten worse so I am not even going to try.
Attempting to donate blood is how I learned I was anemic. Over the decades, it has gotten much much worse for me. Here's a thread with some of my and others' tips on getting more iron via diet:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10802837/good-sources-of-iron
I'm being followed for low iron for the past couple years. Hoping numbers are better in December, finally. Going to check out your link @kshama2001. One of the things I am trying in my diary is daily iron. Hoping to improve through my diet.
I began donating blood regularly at the beginning of the pandemic, and there were a couple of times I was turned away for an inadequate iron count. I chose to start taking extended release iron tablets, and my "power" food is hemp protein: it's delicious sand, but it has 44% of RDA of iron for a 3T serving. I put it in pancakes and protein shakes. And, I take all iron with a 1,000 mg Vitamin C chaser, which supposedly helps with absorbtion. Since then, I haven't had a problem donating blood every two months.
Bonus: free COVID-19 blood test with every donation!4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think my work just made a mistake. In order to strongly discourage employees from either traveling out of state or having visitors from out of state for Thanksgiving or Christmas, they are requiring 14 days of quarantine if you travel or have out of state visitors...that's actually nothing new...the new wrinkle is that instead of teleworking for those 2 weeks as has been done previously, you are now required to use your annual leave and get written permission from on high to either travel or have someone out of state travel to you.
For the most part, from what I've heard around the water cooler and break room is that most people aren't planning on anything big...but so and so's kid will be visiting from Texas or so and so's husband's mom will be visiting from Arizona, etc...but by and large people don't seem to be planning large get togethers.
The punitive nature of this new mandate is already causing problems, and it's only Monday afternoon. I'm in management and I'm already getting things like, "my husband doesn't care if I have permission or not, he told me that he's not your employee and his mom will be visiting from Texas for Christmas." We also have a lot of employees with grown children who live out of state and while not planning a big tadoo for the holidays, they will be visiting back home. One of those people is our primary IT guy and he's basically said, "fine...I'll use my annual leave, but don't bother calling, because my phone and email will be off if I'm on a forced vacation." Another employee is upset because his sister lives in state, but works in southern Colorado so she commutes out of state daily and as such is considered to be an "out of state" visitor.
The bigger issue I think is that you're going to basically have a lot of people just lying about it and saying they aren't traveling or hosting out of state visitors when they really are and thus avoiding any quarantine period whatsoever, when in the past they would have complied with the quarantine period and just teleworked. On the other side, you're going to have people comply...and fully comply in that since they are on annual leave, they will not be available and responding to emails or phone calls.
We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I think the higher ups made a bigger mess of all of this than it already was...I'm hoping they might walk back some of it.
I am constantly shocked about how people/companies/government don't always foresee the potential unintended responses they trigger with their edicts.
Yeah...I talked with my boss yesterday about this as I have more interaction with the rank and file and told him that we went from having a pretty compliant workforce with overall positive morale to a defiant workforce with about zero morale overnight. We already had pretty strict requirements in place...but making people who can otherwise work at home in quarantine use their leave pissed everyone off.
All around, just such a bad idea.
In Massachusetts, our Governor instituted a new stricter policy that causes one to question their judgement. He went from masks outside if cannot maintain 6 ft, to masks outside no matter what even if no one is in sight. So, where I live, land lots are 1 acre minimum with tracts of woods interspersed. When I go out walking, even if I see someone, it is very easy to remain a distance of 20 feet away. In that setting it makes no sense, and there are towns even more rural than mine. When one rule is not logically defined and makes no sense, it brings one to also question the well defined rules. Do note that I am not critiquing mask use, I am critiquing requiring them illogically and thus potentially decreasing compliance in all the important scenarios.
One person critiquing Governor Bakers new mask edict compared it to instructing people to wear a condom when alone so that they will remember to wear one when having sex. (I actually toned down the comparison slightly.)
The thing about stupid absolutes is that lawmakers are driven to them when people abuse more flexible rules. “Okay, fine, I’ll put it on, geez I only got within 4 feet of someone for a second,” ceases to be an excuse if you can’t ever take your mask off. And you and I both know that there are people out there who mysteriously never admit to being unable to maintain social distancing, even when they are packed like sardines. The rule to wear a mask even when alone is stupid and it does have the effect you mentioned, of making those who were willing to comply with the more reasonable rule finally rebel, but it’s predictable.
And by the way, yesterday I went for a run in a completely rural county where my husband and I were the only people for 600 acres - except for a young couple, the only humans we saw for two hours, who insisted on not letting us pass them on the trail. They were walking abreast in the exact center of the maybe 12’ wide gravel drive and would NOT get over, making it impossible to pass without getting within 6 feet. It’s dim bulbs like that who are responsible for dumb laws like the one you mentioned.
I was strongly tempted to get a 6’ stick and whallop anyone I could reach with it, like Cartman.17 -
In Massachusetts, our Governor instituted a new stricter policy that causes one to question their judgement. He went from masks outside if cannot maintain 6 ft, to masks outside no matter what even if no one is in sight. So, where I live, land lots are 1 acre minimum with tracts of woods interspersed. When I go out walking, even if I see someone, it is very easy to remain a distance of 20 feet away. In that setting it makes no sense, and there are towns even more rural than mine. When one rule is not logically defined and makes no sense, it brings one to also question the well defined rules. Do note that I am not critiquing mask use, I am critiquing requiring them illogically and thus potentially decreasing compliance in all the important scenarios.
My thought on this is that obviously if no one is around, or the closest person is quite far, no one is enforcing this. It is like assuming that "wear a mask while outside" means I have to wear it in my backyard (which is small -- here in Chicago a standard lot is 25x125 and mine is just a tiny bit bigger at 30x125 -- but clearly no one would wear a mask in their yard unless with people who don't live with them but who are visiting).
Instead, I'd assume it is more to deal with the fact that in many denser areas people are using the "no mask necessary outside if you can distance 6 ft" to mean "no mask outside" on the theory people could, hypothetically, move so as to distance, but in reality that's hard or many aren't actually bothering.
I live in a neighborhood with sidewalks and a neighborhood shopping area with various parks, a square in which there are benches and people tend to hang out, and am also not far from a riverside path -- If I go out quite early I can easily walk on the sidewalks or the path and stay 6' away from people, although sometimes it takes effort, and I often carry but do not wear my mask then. But much of the time and in many outdoor areas near me it's NOT easy to stay 6' away from people (many of whom are not wearing masks, since outdoors). I tend to think this isn't that dangerous even so (although I do wear my mask and think people who don't, and also make no effort to social distance while walking around or running, are being rude), but if Baker is seeing similar things in MA, I get where he's coming from.6 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »AlexandraFindsHerself1971 wrote: »Eldest Son is quarantining in his end of my mom's big house because he goes to welding school with people who don't believe in masks.
Alex, how many times do I have to tell you to pull that mask down?! Do you want to burn your retinas? Or get covid?
Nah, welders don't need masks... That's just big government forcing people to stay alive and not injured! (sarcasm)
ETA: I realize this guy is cutting, not welding... still probably should be wearing some safety goggles and probably doing this in a location slightly further from the propane.
Yup. I was wondering if he lost the key to the padlock and felt this was his only option. I'm risk averse. I'd pony up for a locksmith.
I don't think that is it. It looks like he is cutting this piece of metal and didn't have a bench to set it on while he cut it, so opted to set it down on top of this propane cabinet. I don't think it is attached to anything presently.
Ah. Went back and looked again and finally noticed the end of the piece of metal that shows that it's hollow, and that made the perspective flip on me, like an Escher print. I had been seeing it as parallel to the metal mesh door to the propane cabinet.0 -
My congressman just posted on Facebook that there's a lottery opening soon for tickets to the Inauguration in January...so I'm supposed to give up the holidays with family (who very well might not be here next year) and "stay home" but miraculously by Jan 21st all will be well to have a large scale gathering? And we wonder why people find Covid so political and polarizing right now - because apparently if you are on the correct end of the spectrum Covid will miraculously not infect you. If it's as bad as "they" are making it out to be currently the Inauguration should be televised/streamed only. Then I'll be more likely to believe that this the correct course of action - but if we can get tons of people together (even if it's outside and masked) for this then other activities with social distancing should be allowed (such as more than 50 people at a football game).
Give me a break.9 -
My congressman just posted on Facebook that there's a lottery opening soon for tickets to the Inauguration in January...so I'm supposed to give up the holidays with family (who very well might not be here next year) and "stay home" but miraculously by Jan 21st all will be well to have a large scale gathering? And we wonder why people find Covid so political and polarizing right now - because apparently if you are on the correct end of the spectrum Covid will miraculously not infect you. If it's as bad as "they" are making it out to be currently the Inauguration should be televised/streamed only. Then I'll be more likely to believe that this the correct course of action - but if we can get tons of people together (even if it's outside and masked) for this then other activities with social distancing should be allowed (such as more than 50 people at a football game).
Give me a break.
1) Isn't the Inauguration typically outdoors? That is, in a category of event that is currently thought to be lower risk than different households gathering indoors, especially when masks are worn?
2) Is the Congressman who made the posting on Facebook also advocating that you not gather for the holidays?
The reason this is "so political and polarizing" is that you're making it that way. If you think the Inauguration is high risk, don't go (I wouldn't go myself). But the fact that the Inauguration is happening doesn't make it magically safe to gather different households together indoors for Thanksgiving.18 -
In Massachusetts, our Governor instituted a new stricter policy that causes one to question their judgement. He went from masks outside if cannot maintain 6 ft, to masks outside no matter what even if no one is in sight. So, where I live, land lots are 1 acre minimum with tracts of woods interspersed. When I go out walking, even if I see someone, it is very easy to remain a distance of 20 feet away. In that setting it makes no sense, and there are towns even more rural than mine. When one rule is not logically defined and makes no sense, it brings one to also question the well defined rules. Do note that I am not critiquing mask use, I am critiquing requiring them illogically and thus potentially decreasing compliance in all the important scenarios.
My thought on this is that obviously if no one is around, or the closest person is quite far, no one is enforcing this. It is like assuming that "wear a mask while outside" means I have to wear it in my backyard (which is small -- here in Chicago a standard lot is 25x125 and mine is just a tiny bit bigger at 30x125 -- but clearly no one would wear a mask in their yard unless with people who don't live with them but who are visiting).
Instead, I'd assume it is more to deal with the fact that in many denser areas people are using the "no mask necessary outside if you can distance 6 ft" to mean "no mask outside" on the theory people could, hypothetically, move so as to distance, but in reality that's hard or many aren't actually bothering.
I live in a neighborhood with sidewalks and a neighborhood shopping area with various parks, a square in which there are benches and people tend to hang out, and am also not far from a riverside path -- If I go out quite early I can easily walk on the sidewalks or the path and stay 6' away from people, although sometimes it takes effort, and I often carry but do not wear my mask then. But much of the time and in many outdoor areas near me it's NOT easy to stay 6' away from people (many of whom are not wearing masks, since outdoors). I tend to think this isn't that dangerous even so (although I do wear my mask and think people who don't, and also make no effort to social distance while walking around or running, are being rude), but if Baker is seeing similar things in MA, I get where he's coming from.
Yup--I'm in Italy and go running in the park nearby before 7 in the morning, when they open, because there are less people at that time of day. Here, masks are required (fines of $400-$1000) unless jogging in an open space. An open space in Rome is rare. I wear a mask and pull it up when passing someone, pull it down when I'm alone. I stay as far away from people just the same, but when you pull up that mask, even at a distance, it sends a message that you care about other people and it's a reassuring gesture.16
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