Bone broth question...
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discolady74 wrote: »A new place near my home popped up that serves bone broth. I've heard of it, tried to understand why people would drink it, but I kinda wanted to know if anyone out there has tried it and is it something you do often? Do you use it to replace meals or snacks?
Bone broth typically has more protein than chicken, beef, or Turkey stock.
I'm curious how you know the amount of protein in homemade stock or how homemade stock would be different from the stuff marketed as "bone broth," as I believe they are supposed to be made the same way (except the one in mass amounts, presumably). I actually consider this since I don't really know how to log my stocks, and use (figuring it doesn't matter that much if I am consistent) the entries for "X stock, homemade" (this is at Cron, which isn't full of weird random entries). Sodium, of course, depends on what you add to it.If you ever decide to do that, be sure and get bone broth labeled “perfect for sipping.” Believe me, it’s not all that way! 😂
Granted, the homemade stuff may not be initially perfect for sipping, but if one clarifies it (see post above about consumme), it's totally fine to consume on its own. Again, maybe I'm crazy, but I don't get the idea that "bone broth" is some special new thing distinct from the longstanding practice of making stock, other than the rebranding to make it cooler.10 -
discolady74 wrote: »A new place near my home popped up that serves bone broth. I've heard of it, tried to understand why people would drink it, but I kinda wanted to know if anyone out there has tried it and is it something you do often? Do you use it to replace meals or snacks?
Bone broth typically has more protein than chicken, beef, or Turkey stock.
I'm curious how you know the amount of protein in homemade stock or how homemade stock would be different from the stuff marketed as "bone broth," as I believe they are supposed to be made the same way (except the one in mass amounts, presumably). I actually consider this since I don't really know how to log my stocks, and use (figuring it doesn't matter that much if I am consistent) the entries for "X stock, homemade" (this is at Cron, which isn't full of weird random entries). Sodium, of course, depends on what you add to it.If you ever decide to do that, be sure and get bone broth labeled “perfect for sipping.” Believe me, it’s not all that way! 😂
Granted, the homemade stuff may not be initially perfect for sipping, but if one clarifies it (see post above about consumme), it's totally fine to consume on its own. Again, maybe I'm crazy, but I don't get the idea that "bone broth" is some special new thing distinct from the longstanding practice of making stock, other than the rebranding to make it cooler.
Allegedly, bone broth has more amino acids in it than stock. By cooking it longer, it makes gelatin, which is rich in glycine. So not more protein, more amino acids. Again, though, the science behind whether or not this builds collagen is iffy.
Most bone broth recipes call for a bit of apple cider vinegar to be added to the bones and then cooked for around 24 hours until the bone nearly disintegrates, way longer than a simple broth.1 -
The person I was asking said protein, which is the question I was curious about. My suspicion was that she might have been comparing it with boxed stock, and I also am curious if she was aware of a good way to estimate the cals and macros that I don't know about.
Regarding the distinctions you make, it's actually pretty common to cook stock a long time (this "stock is cooked less long" thing seems to come from those who have rebranded traditional stock as "bone broth" and need to explain away stock). It also does normally contain gelatin. (I've also seen loads of relatively short cooking time instant pot "bone broth" recipes.)
It's also the case that plenty of "bone broth" recipes do not include apple cider vinegar (although I suppose adding ACV as one's one true acid source would be perfect for those in seek of woo), and one can also find traditional stock recommendations for vinegar or wine (for something acidic) to be included.
Here's a helpful piece: https://www.bonappetit.com/story/difference-between-bone-broth-and-stock
"...we're still not sure about the difference between stock and bone broth, especially now that we're making it at home. After several internal debates, we decided to ask the de facto expert on the topic, Marco Canora, chef of Hearth and brodo in New York, to give us the rundown.
"Bone broth is essentially stock," he admits. The confusion comes from the traditional definition for stock, which is more viscous due to the collagen that seeps out of joints and bones during long-term cooking, and broth, which is thinner and is made with more actual meat (versus meat-stripped bones used for stock). The confusion comes from the fact that the current trend uses the word "broth" even though bone broth is essentially stock. Explains Canora, "Three to five years ago, because of the wellness and paleo trends, stock started being called bone broth. It really short-circuited my brain."
So, bone broth—like a really good stock—is defined by its thickness (due to gelatin) and exceptionally long cooking time...."
So nothing new.
In addition, here's a blog from one of the commercial makers of "bone broth" -- clearly on the paleo bandwagon -- and as you can see they don't think this is some new thing, but part of an old tradition, and the old tradition is stock (traditional broth itself is something different). https://blog.kettleandfire.com/the-surprising-history-behind-bone-broth/
I think it's also notable that their complaints are against commercial "stock" and not homemade, and they are trying to convince you to buy a new commercial product as more like the traditional stuff. Yet "bone broth" is a new name. It really seems to me just rebranding to fit with the wellness market. To some extent, I think the excitement about bone broth assumes that one is not all that familiar with the longstanding cross-cultural tradition of making stock and that it's still commonly done. And as always, a substitution of wellness stuff for an actual appreciation of culinary tradition, of food, is a pet peeve (basing a diet around "superfoods" rather than appreciating that foods bring a variety of things to the table, including taste).
Here's probably a better-written account of what is sticking in my craw somewhat about the whole "wellness" approach to food (and yanking stock out of its culinary context and rebranding it as some medical miracle): https://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/unhappy-meals/
(To be clear, if one doesn't mind spending the cash and enjoys the taste of some "bone broth" at some cafe or broth bar, I see nothing wrong with buying it -- I buy lots of things I can make at home from time to time, including coffee. I just object to the over-the-top wellness claims and pretense that this is something new and superior from the marketers. It's not magical health elixir, it's part of cooking in many traditions.)5 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »discolady74 wrote: »A new place near my home popped up that serves bone broth. I've heard of it, tried to understand why people would drink it, but I kinda wanted to know if anyone out there has tried it and is it something you do often? Do you use it to replace meals or snacks?
Bone broth typically has more protein than chicken, beef, or Turkey stock.
I'm curious how you know the amount of protein in homemade stock or how homemade stock would be different from the stuff marketed as "bone broth," as I believe they are supposed to be made the same way (except the one in mass amounts, presumably). I actually consider this since I don't really know how to log my stocks, and use (figuring it doesn't matter that much if I am consistent) the entries for "X stock, homemade" (this is at Cron, which isn't full of weird random entries). Sodium, of course, depends on what you add to it.If you ever decide to do that, be sure and get bone broth labeled “perfect for sipping.” Believe me, it’s not all that way! 😂
Granted, the homemade stuff may not be initially perfect for sipping, but if one clarifies it (see post above about consumme), it's totally fine to consume on its own. Again, maybe I'm crazy, but I don't get the idea that "bone broth" is some special new thing distinct from the longstanding practice of making stock, other than the rebranding to make it cooler.
Allegedly, bone broth has more amino acids in it than stock. By cooking it longer, it makes gelatin, which is rich in glycine. So not more protein, more amino acids. Again, though, the science behind whether or not this builds collagen is iffy.
Most bone broth recipes call for a bit of apple cider vinegar to be added to the bones and then cooked for around 24 hours until the bone nearly disintegrates, way longer than a simple broth.
That is how I make mine. Before I had a pressure cooker I would add a tbsp of ACV to the water and cook for 24hrs in my slow cooker. But now it is the same recipe with only 4hrs on the instant pot. Nice thick “jello” like broth once it cools. We use bone broth for tons of cooking and soup. And if we are not using it fast enough, the dogs or cats get it mixed with their food.1 -
(Unfair and unannounced snipping for length introduced by reply-er into the very interesting post available in full above.)
Regarding the distinctions you make, it's actually pretty common to cook stock a long time (this "stock is cooked less long" thing seems to come from those who have rebranded traditional stock as "bone broth" and need to explain away stock). It also does normally contain gelatin. (I've also seen loads of relatively short cooking time instant pot "bone broth" recipes.)
It's also the case that plenty of "bone broth" recipes do not include apple cider vinegar (although I suppose adding ACV as one's one true acid source would be perfect for those in seek of woo), and one can also find traditional stock recommendations for vinegar or wine (for something acidic) to be included.
It seems to me that this phenomenon (and perhaps others in the "magical foods" sphere, to use a prejudicial term) exploits the relative uncommonness of scratch cooking in very traditional ways. (I'm not saying tradition is dead, but there are statistically fewer practitioners, or even folks knowledgeable - there's a "new to me but not realizing it's not truly new" thing).
There's a bit of revival of certain traditional foods as commercial products, with an added health aura of some type around them. (Another example is shrub, a traditional thing now reborn as ACV-based health drinks.)
As an aside, I think you're right about the ACV as woo-enhancement for bone broth. It seems as if any other acid would have a similar effect on the broth, including wine (and most of that 'evil' alcohol with the anti-health aura would be evaporated away in the finished product, anyway). The ACV in this context amuses me a little, in that (personal opinon) if there's any tiny little thing that gives ACV minor benefit, it's that ACV is commonly available raw (live culture), and other raw vinegars are a little less common . . . but that long cooking, for bone broth, would seem likely to kill off the nice bugs.
ETA: That was a really fun Pollan essay, too, Lemur, at the link you cited. "Nutritionism". Heh.3 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »Bone broth is chicken, turkey, or any type of leftover bones cooked in water. It is a good base for soups or stews. Have you had soup or stew? Then you have had bone broth.
Please remember some people only know about soup from packages off the supermarket shelf. They've never seen the real thing.5 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »Bone broth is chicken, turkey, or any type of leftover bones cooked in water. It is a good base for soups or stews. Have you had soup or stew? Then you have had bone broth.
Please remember some people only know about soup from packages off the supermarket shelf. They've never seen the real thing.
That's just sad.4 -
discolady74 wrote: »A new place near my home popped up that serves bone broth. I've heard of it, tried to understand why people would drink it, but I kinda wanted to know if anyone out there has tried it and is it something you do often? Do you use it to replace meals or snacks?
Bone broth typically has more protein than chicken, beef, or Turkey stock.
I'm curious how you know the amount of protein in homemade stock or how homemade stock would be different from the stuff marketed as "bone broth," as I believe they are supposed to be made the same way (except the one in mass amounts, presumably). I actually consider this since I don't really know how to log my stocks, and use (figuring it doesn't matter that much if I am consistent) the entries for "X stock, homemade" (this is at Cron, which isn't full of weird random entries). Sodium, of course, depends on what you add to it.If you ever decide to do that, be sure and get bone broth labeled “perfect for sipping.” Believe me, it’s not all that way! 😂
Granted, the homemade stuff may not be initially perfect for sipping, but if one clarifies it (see post above about consumme), it's totally fine to consume on its own. Again, maybe I'm crazy, but I don't get the idea that "bone broth" is some special new thing distinct from the longstanding practice of making stock, other than the rebranding to make it cooler.
I don’t do homemade, so no comparison there. After the “disagrees,” I went back and looked at nutritional info. The stocks I used to buy were 1-2 grams of protein per 8 fluid ounces. The bone broth, has 8-9 grams of protein per 8 fluid ounces. Big difference to me. And if I sip that in a meeting, I don’t get noodles in my teeth. 😂
Maybe it’s just the stuff I buy/used to buy. But I’m definitely not a one-brand devotee. 🤷🏻♀️2 -
I don't think the boxed "stocks" are much like homemade stock (they are incredibly low cal, so don't have much of anything but water). If you look at the USDA-type estimates for homemade stock, they are higher in cals, protein, and fat. My point is really that "bone broth" is just a new made-up name that seems to have been popularized by paleo folks and is being used to sell items that are really just basically like traditional stocks (how commercial "bone broths" compare to homemade stock probably depends on the product).
I looked at the Kettle & Fire brand for more insight on the way it's made/macros and cals, and the marketing again put me right off ("Justin was looking to incorporate bone broth into his Paleo diet, while his brother Nick suffered a knee injury and wanted whole foods that could help with healing. But given that a clean bone broth didn’t exist, they began exploring the idea of making it themselves"), but other than the fact many of them are pre-flavored with various spice profiles and given names that reflect that (again, sold as soups), it does seem mostly a commercial version of, well, stock as one would make at home.6 -
I don't think the boxed "stocks" are much like homemade stock (they are incredibly low cal, so don't have much of anything but water). If you look at the USDA-type estimates for homemade stock, they are higher in cals, protein, and fat. My point is really that "bone broth" is just a new made-up name that seems to have been popularized by paleo folks and is being used to sell items that are really just basically like traditional stocks (how commercial "bone broths" compare to homemade stock probably depends on the product).
I looked at the Kettle & Fire brand for more insight on the way it's made/macros and cals, and the marketing again put me right off ("Justin was looking to incorporate bone broth into his Paleo diet, while his brother Nick suffered a knee injury and wanted whole foods that could help with healing. But given that a clean bone broth didn’t exist, they began exploring the idea of making it themselves"), but other than the fact many of them are pre-flavored with various spice profiles and given names that reflect that (again, sold as soups), it does seem mostly a commercial version of, well, stock as one would make at home.
I have nothing useful to contribute, but just want to say how ridiculous and hilarious the implied idea of bone broth as a whole food seems to me.
A thing you cook for hours, in order to extract some components from part(s) of a food . . . is not a "whole food", in any rational use of language. It may be a nutritious, useful, practical, healthful food. It may indeed promote healing. It may even be "clean" (probably is, since no one really seems to agree on what "clean" means).
But a "whole food"? Please. Woo-y woo-ness from woo-ville.8 -
Funny and true.3
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