Calorie Deficit and holding or gaining weight any thoughts on why?

4ajguthrie
4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
edited January 2021 in Food and Nutrition
I am calorie counting absolutely everything I eat, my base goal is 2040 calories, credit with up to 2900 total allowable (daily ) calories for exercise.
Currently have a daily input of between 1300 and 1600 calories.
in the last 4wks have climbed steadily from 74.1kg 163lb to 76.5kg 168lb!
Maintained deficit through christmas !!!
I'm an 'oldie' :D
Today my deficit is 945 calories
«1

Replies

  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    There are mistakes that people commonly make that cause them to not lose weight that we might be able to spot if you change your Diary Sharing settings to Public: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/diary_settings
  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    How does one reply to each post?
    This is the first site I have been on that does not have a reply button in each post.
  • WeatherJane
    WeatherJane Posts: 1,492 Member
    4ajguthrie wrote: »
    How does one reply to each post?
    This is the first site I have been on that does not have a reply button in each post.

    You can use the quote button, or put @ followed by the users name.
  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    To all replies,
    thanks for taking the time to reply here is a general post till I can sort how to reply to each.

    Male, I have done all the BMI, BMR calcs from multiple sources including my MD. so I am pretty sure I am working to credible data on myself.
    I do weigh and measure all food I prepare. Also for any product that is packaged I refer to the label to confirm calories.
    As to exercise calories, that is EXACTLY what I have doubts about tbh. Finding meaningful calorie values for the exercises I do each morning has eluded me, every descriptor I put into the database draws a blank.
    I do 60 - 90 min each morning. Also do an hour very brisk walk at least three times a week through bush with rough and hilly terrain. My regimen is aimed at strengthening my lower back and legs plus gaining general strength.

    brief background:-
    I thought I was fit, living on a rural property and very active. A bad episode with my back revealed that I had been deluding myself for many years. I was overweight by 24 lb and seriously out of fitness. So in September this year I decided to do something about it.

    I'm a bit 'old school' and reluctant to make to much personal information public. However my diet is very regular and repetitive.

    1/2 cup oats in water, 2tsp sultana 1tsp active honey. breakfast.
    Cup Lettuce, 1 radish, 1 hard boiled egg, 50g Greek yogurt, and 250g fish for lunch
    75g Air roast chicken breast, 1 hard boiled egg, cup each steamed Brocc and Cauli, occasionally a small steamed potato with 50g of Greek yogurt.
    Snacks/day, an apple, orange or mandarin and 2lit+ of water.
    Instead of bread use Rice cakes and limit those to 6 per day , but usually just 4.

    My BMR per my MD and all available data is 1493 calories and on days when I opt for all foods MFP tells me that I am at least 400 calories and often 1000+ below Goal?? Yesterday for example it said I was 999 below!!

    Cheers


  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    To all replies...added

    This fitness regimen started in Mid to late Sept. My diet has been fixed and consistent in that time. I started out weighing 187 lb. and I just started eating smarter, did not weigh anything I just ate 'better'.

    By the time I started MFP on 20th October I had reduced my weight to 171lb. So all the way through this my days food consumption has in fact remained the same. What has changed, and changed significantly is my exercise. For the first 21 days I was doing 45min of yoga type stretching only. I now do, say today as an example, 1hr 26 min of strength exercisers without weights but with resistance bands and isometrics, with squats, lunges and planks. Then an hour brisk walk through hills that got my heart rate up to 156bpm and a constant 119 so I am not hanging about. My Garmin tells me I have done 29 floors up and 26 down in that hour.
    Yesterday MFP told me I consumed 1026calories and expended 825, leaving me 1769 remaining!!
    Recent as in three weeks ago got a great shape badge from my health professional, so there is nothing there!!

    Today ( pre-breakfast) I am still 167.5lb and I am darned if I can work out why.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,971 Member
    4ajguthrie wrote: »
    To all replies...added

    This fitness regimen started in Mid to late Sept. My diet has been fixed and consistent in that time. I started out weighing 187 lb. and I just started eating smarter, did not weigh anything I just ate 'better'.

    By the time I started MFP on 20th October I had reduced my weight to 171lb. So all the way through this my days food consumption has in fact remained the same. What has changed, and changed significantly is my exercise. For the first 21 days I was doing 45min of yoga type stretching only. I now do, say today as an example, 1hr 26 min of strength exercisers without weights but with resistance bands and isometrics, with squats, lunges and planks. Then an hour brisk walk through hills that got my heart rate up to 156bpm and a constant 119 so I am not hanging about. My Garmin tells me I have done 29 floors up and 26 down in that hour.
    Yesterday MFP told me I consumed 1026calories and expended 825, leaving me 1769 remaining!!
    Recent as in three weeks ago got a great shape badge from my health professional, so there is nothing there!!

    Today ( pre-breakfast) I am still 167.5lb and I am darned if I can work out why.
    Assuming you're male? And how tall?


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png
  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    Thanks for replying.
    My height is 5'11"@ninerbuff
  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    senalay788 wrote: »
    When you stall or start to gain there are two things you can do.
    Increase exercise to burn more OR decrease the calories to eat less.
    IF the scale does not go in the right direction, time to re-*kitten* your tracking methods.

    @senalay788

    I think the tracking is the key. the MFP exercise numbers may be derived from credible data but are at best they have to be "common' values. It seems I am outside that general group in some way. That is what I have assumed and use the app as a guide.

    I was in hopes that someone would confirm my suspicion that as a body gets fitter, so it behaves differently with respect to how it processes food and exercise. I believe I need more information help to deal with this apparent change at this time.

    It has crossed my mind that I may be at that point where further weight loss is confined to the hard to get at fat in my middle, and that having eliminated the easy to remove fat and getting my muscle tissue in better shape I may not be just storing fat, a part of it may be heavier muscle. Though at my age I'd be a bit skeptical of that possibility.

    Food intake reduction sounds daunting!, I'm already gnawing on the furniture between meals as it is. The evenings are the worst. That gap between Dinner and bed time is already my time of torment, though not actual hunger, more like the craving one has when getting off smoking.
  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    senalay788 wrote: »
    4ajguthrie wrote: »
    senalay788 wrote: »
    When you stall or start to gain there are two things you can do.
    Increase exercise to burn more OR decrease the calories to eat less.
    IF the scale does not go in the right direction, time to re-*kitten* your tracking methods.

    @senalay788

    I think the tracking is the key. the MFP exercise numbers may be derived from credible data but are at best they have to be "common' values. It seems I am outside that general group in some way. That is what I have assumed and use the app as a guide.

    I was in hopes that someone would confirm my suspicion that as a body gets fitter, so it behaves differently with respect to how it processes food and exercise. I believe I need more information help to deal with this apparent change at this time.

    It has crossed my mind that I may be at that point where further weight loss is confined to the hard to get at fat in my middle, and that having eliminated the easy to remove fat and getting my muscle tissue in better shape I may not be just storing fat, a part of it may be heavier muscle. Though at my age I'd be a bit skeptical of that possibility.

    Food intake reduction sounds daunting!, I'm already gnawing on the furniture between meals as it is. The evenings are the worst. That gap between Dinner and bed time is already my time of torment, though not actual hunger, more like the craving one has when getting off smoking.

    You are looking into this too much and searching for someone to confirm what you "think" is happening.

    @senalay788

    Ok so what you are saying is what I am asking is outside your experience? Thats OK I was in hopes that one or more members had been down this path and would be able to offer some constructive insight from their personal experience.

    I'm not into superficial, or simplistic, as in food in = weigh on that is very basic and at the end of the day absolutely correct, so I will continue to look to understand whats happening a bit better .

    Thank you for your contribution.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    My suggestions for logging your exercise:
    Log the entire duration of your stength training in the CV part of the diary (rather than individual exercises) - it's a modest estimate which is truthful as strength training may feel hard but is not a big burner.
    Search for "Strength training (weight lifting, weight training)"

    For walking the database here is badly inflated as it's a gross calorie estimate which means you double count your basal calories (skews the numbers badly for long duration but low burn exercise). Pick the net calorie estimate from this calculator instead - https://exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs

    Heartrate is a very poor metric for estimating calorie burns from both strength training and walking.
  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    paperpudding wrote: »
    My answer is simple so apologies for that.

    If you are hitting your calorie target but not losing weight over time then one or more of 4 things

    1 you are under estimating your calorie intake

    2 you are over estimating your calorie burns.

    3 your target is not right for you - if i set my calorie target to 3000 then doesnt matter how accurately I hit it, I won't lose weight, because 3000 is too high for my needs

    4 you have a medical issue interfering with the process.

    @ paperpudding

    Thanks for that input....

    Your points are all spot on...

    (4) Have regular medicals, including blood tests and have been in good health all my life! my body weight etc. has not caused medical comment and I wear normal size clothing for my height. Hence, when my wife commented on the fact that I had lost a lot of weight it came as a surprise. Refered back to my last check up data and fired up the scales to weigh myself and was frankly shocked to find I had shed 15lb.
    (3) Yes! For my age height etc. common wisdom suggests 161lb is the least I should aim at. However, at 164lb I still have plenty of fat around my middle, not just loose skin, am I wrong to be assuming this means that I have a way to go still? I don't know the answer to that so I am asking.
    (2) Possible, very possible. I cant find anything that will give me accurate (general) numbers on the exercises I do. However I do an hour to an hour and a half at around 120bpm heart rate, and on alternate days an hours walk through hilly country that gets me into 120-150bpm. I am relying on MFP numbers as a measure.
    (1) again possibly/probably as I am relying on the data within MFP and individual package data. I am not 'cheating' myself and not accounting for ALL consumed.

    So fixed diet and exercise over the period 23 Nov : 74.3, 74.3, 74.1, 74.7, then 74.1 till 6th Dec, then 74.4, 74.3, 74.4, 74.5, 75, then 74.3 for 5 days and 74.5,74.3 74.5,75.1, then 75 for four days ( one of which was Christmas Day) and then 75.8 for 2 days then 76.4 which is where it is stuck.
    40 days fairly constant and then 5days after Christmas up to 76+. My Christmas, and post Christmas 'binge' has remained calorie deficit days!!

    Conclusion I draw from feedback is : it is what it is, suck it up and just keep going....

    Cheers and thanks again.

  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    4ajguthrie wrote: »
    senalay788 wrote: »
    When you stall or start to gain there are two things you can do.
    Increase exercise to burn more OR decrease the calories to eat less.
    IF the scale does not go in the right direction, time to re-*kitten* your tracking methods.

    @senalay788

    I think the tracking is the key. the MFP exercise numbers may be derived from credible data but are at best they have to be "common' values. It seems I am outside that general group in some way. That is what I have assumed and use the app as a guide.

    I was in hopes that someone would confirm my suspicion that as a body gets fitter, so it behaves differently with respect to how it processes food and exercise. I believe I need more information help to deal with this apparent change at this time.

    I'd be happy to anti-confirm that suspicion: No, mostly.

    As we get fitter, the same exercise at the same intensity for the same duration at the same bodyweight will burn roughly the same number of calories. That's because what counts for energy input requirements is work, in pretty much the physics sense of work.

    Assuming (for the moment) constant body weight, as we get fitter, exercise at the same intensity/duration
    * feels easier
    * evokes a lower heart rate (because there's more blood volume per beat)
    * may be estimated by a heart rate monitor as burning fewer calories (because of the lower heart rate . . . but the estimate is wrong - we just don't know which time it was wrong, fitter, less fit, or somewhere in between).

    With some activities, your efficiency can improve with fitness or practice . . . but that doesn't *necessarily* burn fewer calories than the estimate you're using. It depends. You might burn more calories when kind of incompetent (learning phase) because you waste motion, and the wasted motion burns extra calories. Or, you might burn more calories when fit, because you're subtly doing more intense work in some way. It's kind of subtle and confusing.

    MFP uses METS-based values from research to estimate exercise calories. The way they implemented it has a technical flaw that makes them run a tad bit high on average, but the difference for typical exercises isn't a big deal numerically, for most things. Y'know, if you're off by 50 calories on an exercise on a day when your actual calorie deficit is 500 calories, that's not a huge deal arithmetically, when it shows up on the bodyweight scale eventually. And in general, sure, it's an estimate - population based. Heart rate monitors and fitness trackers give more personalized estimates, but they may or may not be more accurate (really).

    Of course, it an exercise involves moving ones body through space, changes in bodyweight make a difference in calorie burn. (For example, running moves one's body through space a lot, so bodyweight changes have a bigger actual burn impact. Seated stationary biking moves one's body through space barely at all, so bodyweight changes have a smaller actual burn impact.)
    It has crossed my mind that I may be at that point where further weight loss is confined to the hard to get at fat in my middle, and that having eliminated the easy to remove fat and getting my muscle tissue in better shape I may not be just storing fat, a part of it may be heavier muscle. Though at my age I'd be a bit skeptical of that possibility.

    If you were doing measurements (or paying attention to fit of clothing) you'd know. A pound of muscle is denser (more compact) than a pound of fat. Age doesn't prevent muscle gain, though it may make it slower to achieve. Research has demonstrated gains among people into their 80s, with proper stimulus. (I'm 65, so I'm not a teenager saying this to you, BTW . . . and you're male, which I'm not, so you have better potential for muscle gain than I do, probably).

    If you're referring to visceral fat - the stuff inside the muscle layer, around the organs - many people lose that first. It's unlikely you're hanging on to that.
    Food intake reduction sounds daunting!, I'm already gnawing on the furniture between meals as it is. The evenings are the worst. That gap between Dinner and bed time is already my time of torment, though not actual hunger, more like the craving one has when getting off smoking.

    Perhaps the nutrients, specific foods, or timing of your eating are not optimal for your satiation. All of that stuff is very individualized.

    If I ate what it sounds like you're eating, I'd be hungry, too. For me, I'd need much, much more volume (like more veggies), and I think I'd maybe need more protein (I don't eat meat, so it's hard for me to estimate your protein grams without looking stuff up). I'm quite a bit smaller (125ish pounds), so my sensible protein goal (100g daily is sensible for me, IMO) would probably be too low if I were male & your size. But like I said, satiation is individual.

    As an aside: I have a Garmin, too. Sometimes it says stupid stuff. Sometimes it doesn't. Be skeptical, and test results against its values. Mine thinks I walk up crazy-extreme numbers of steps outdoors on mild rolling terrain. OTOH, I run up and down steps indoors many times daily, and it almost never even comes close. And so forth.

    Realistically, most people's "I'm not losing on low calories" turns out to be issue of logging accuracy, which we might be able to assess if you temporarily made your diary public. I hear that you're hesitant. Many issues of satiation tend to be about nutrition/timing/food choice. Obviously, if you're stalled, you could increase exercise or daily life activity, but it sounds like you're already doing a lot, unless (with apologies for saying this) you're more hopeful/optimistic about what you do, than accurate.

    Caveat: Just my opinions, throughout.

    I'd like to see you succeed, like to help you succeed. Other than some of the info I've offered above, though, I'm pretty much out of ideas. Apologies!

    Thanks so much.
    My blood pressure monitor actually confirms my resting heart rate in the low to middle 50bpm as does Garmin. that leads me to think that 1.5 hrs at 120 (average) bpm, and an hour at 120-150 v brisk hill walking is burning calories at some rate, what exactly I'm unsure. Garmin also tells me the walk has 29 x10' up elevation and 26 x 10' elevation down.
    As you say Garmin and MFP are useful tools, indicators that show trend more than diagnostics. The 'true' measure are accurate scales.
    I am just really grateful that this journey has actually strengthened my back to the point where I have no 24hr discomfort, better ability and stamina for my farm chores and much, much better sleep.

    really do appreciate your words, thanks

    Andrew
  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    My suggestions for logging your exercise:
    Log the entire duration of your stength training in the CV part of the diary (rather than individual exercises) - it's a modest estimate which is truthful as strength training may feel hard but is not a big burner.
    Search for "Strength training (weight lifting, weight training)"

    For walking the database here is badly inflated as it's a gross calorie estimate which means you double count your basal calories (skews the numbers badly for long duration but low burn exercise). Pick the net calorie estimate from this calculator instead - https://exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs

    Heartrate is a very poor metric for estimating calorie burns from both strength training and walking.

    Excellent!! thanks will do that, appreciated....

    Andrew
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,158 Member
    edited January 2021
    4ajguthrie wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    My answer is simple so apologies for that.

    If you are hitting your calorie target but not losing weight over time then one or more of 4 things

    1 you are under estimating your calorie intake

    2 you are over estimating your calorie burns.

    3 your target is not right for you - if i set my calorie target to 3000 then doesnt matter how accurately I hit it, I won't lose weight, because 3000 is too high for my needs

    4 you have a medical issue interfering with the process.

    @ paperpudding

    Thanks for that input....

    Your points are all spot on...

    (4) Have regular medicals, including blood tests and have been in good health all my life! my body weight etc. has not caused medical comment and I wear normal size clothing for my height. Hence, when my wife commented on the fact that I had lost a lot of weight it came as a surprise. Refered back to my last check up data and fired up the scales to weigh myself and was frankly shocked to find I had shed 15lb.
    (3) Yes! For my age height etc. common wisdom suggests 161lb is the least I should aim at. However, at 164lb I still have plenty of fat around my middle, not just loose skin, am I wrong to be assuming this means that I have a way to go still? I don't know the answer to that so I am asking.
    (2) Possible, very possible. I cant find anything that will give me accurate (general) numbers on the exercises I do. However I do an hour to an hour and a half at around 120bpm heart rate, and on alternate days an hours walk through hilly country that gets me into 120-150bpm. I am relying on MFP numbers as a measure.
    (1) again possibly/probably as I am relying on the data within MFP and individual package data. I am not 'cheating' myself and not accounting for ALL consumed.

    So fixed diet and exercise over the period 23 Nov : 74.3, 74.3, 74.1, 74.7, then 74.1 till 6th Dec, then 74.4, 74.3, 74.4, 74.5, 75, then 74.3 for 5 days and 74.5,74.3 74.5,75.1, then 75 for four days ( one of which was Christmas Day) and then 75.8 for 2 days then 76.4 which is where it is stuck.
    40 days fairly constant and then 5days after Christmas up to 76+. My Christmas, and post Christmas 'binge' has remained calorie deficit days!!

    Conclusion I draw from feedback is : it is what it is, suck it up and just keep going....

    Cheers and thanks again.

    For your yoga, use MFP's "Stretching, hatha yoga" entry under "Cardiovascular". For your no-weights strength workout, I'd suggest using "Calisthenics, home, light/moderate effort". If your Garmin is a model is one that lets you pick which exercise you're doing (as mine does), set your watch to track the yoga when you do it, and compare Garmin's calorie estimate to MFP's. Use whichever is lower. Or, if you have your Garmin synched to MFP, make sure you have negative adjustments enabled, and don't even bother to log exercise separately - let MFP and Garmin swap data and do arithmetic with the calorie totals. One of those methods is going to be about the best you can do, IMO.

    If you want feedback on exercise intensity, but have never tested for HR max, you need to at least tell us how old you are. As I said, I'm 65. I have a tested HR max. If I used my age in the (not very accurate) 220-age formula for estimating max, it would claim 155. (Other estimating formulas exist.)

    If you're reaching 156 while walking (even with hills) it's extremely likely that your max is well above 156. For me (with an actual max around 180), 120bpm is very light exercise, like 50%-ish heart rate reserve, not even up into the recovery zone (or UT2, depending on what analytic scheme you want to use), let alone aerobic zone/UT1. However, heart rate is not a very good basis for estimating calories for any of the exercises you've mentioned doing.

    For the walking, one option is to use (0.3 X distance in miles X weight in pounds). That will underestimate, especially given the hills, but since you're not losing when you think you should, I wouldn't worry about that underestimate, if I were you. Or, use the link sijomial suggested, to calculate NET (not gross) calories, and log that:

    https://exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs

    Much of my post is repeating advice others have given you, of course.

    If you're at a healthy weight (or close) but want more muscle and less fat, increase or improve strength exercise. That would be pursuing recomposition (a slow process). More information about that here:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat

    If you're not following a well-designed professional program for your strength exercise, use one from this thread (despite the title, it includes programs that don't require you to have weights):

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1

    Your being (what seems like) secretive about relevant but not particularly sensitive information is not letting us help you with the things you say you want help with, frankly. Implicitly, you're deciding you want privacy for that information more than you want help. That's your decision, of course.

    Wishing you well, sincerely!
  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    4ajguthrie wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    My answer is simple so apologies for that.

    If you are hitting your calorie target but not losing weight over time then one or more of 4 things

    1 you are under estimating your calorie intake

    2 you are over estimating your calorie burns.

    3 your target is not right for you - if i set my calorie target to 3000 then doesnt matter how accurately I hit it, I won't lose weight, because 3000 is too high for my needs

    4 you have a medical issue interfering with the process.

    @ paperpudding

    Thanks for that input....

    Your points are all spot on...

    (4) Have regular medicals, including blood tests and have been in good health all my life! my body weight etc. has not caused medical comment and I wear normal size clothing for my height. Hence, when my wife commented on the fact that I had lost a lot of weight it came as a surprise. Refered back to my last check up data and fired up the scales to weigh myself and was frankly shocked to find I had shed 15lb.
    (3) Yes! For my age height etc. common wisdom suggests 161lb is the least I should aim at. However, at 164lb I still have plenty of fat around my middle, not just loose skin, am I wrong to be assuming this means that I have a way to go still? I don't know the answer to that so I am asking.
    (2) Possible, very possible. I cant find anything that will give me accurate (general) numbers on the exercises I do. However I do an hour to an hour and a half at around 120bpm heart rate, and on alternate days an hours walk through hilly country that gets me into 120-150bpm. I am relying on MFP numbers as a measure.
    (1) again possibly/probably as I am relying on the data within MFP and individual package data. I am not 'cheating' myself and not accounting for ALL consumed.

    So fixed diet and exercise over the period 23 Nov : 74.3, 74.3, 74.1, 74.7, then 74.1 till 6th Dec, then 74.4, 74.3, 74.4, 74.5, 75, then 74.3 for 5 days and 74.5,74.3 74.5,75.1, then 75 for four days ( one of which was Christmas Day) and then 75.8 for 2 days then 76.4 which is where it is stuck.
    40 days fairly constant and then 5days after Christmas up to 76+. My Christmas, and post Christmas 'binge' has remained calorie deficit days!!

    Conclusion I draw from feedback is : it is what it is, suck it up and just keep going....

    Cheers and thanks again.

    For your yoga, use MFP's "Stretching, hatha yoga" entry under "Cardiovascular". For your no-weights strength workout, I'd suggest using "Calisthenics, home, light/moderate effort". If your Garmin is a model is one that lets you pick which exercise you're doing (as mine does), set your watch to track the yoga when you do it, and compare Garmin's calorie estimate to MFP's. Use whichever is lower. Or, if you have your Garmin synched to MFP, make sure you have negative adjustments enabled, and don't even bother to log exercise separately - let MFP and Garmin swap data and do arithmetic with the calorie totals. One of those methods is going to be about the best you can do, IMO.

    If you want feedback on exercise intensity, but have never tested for HR max, you need to at least tell us how old you are. As I said, I'm 65. I have a tested HR max. If I used my age in the (not very accurate) 220-age formula for estimating max, it would claim 155. (Other estimating formulas exist.)

    If you're reaching 156 while walking (even with hills) it's extremely likely that your max is well above 156. For me (with an actual max around 180), 120bpm is very light exercise, like 50%-ish heart rate reserve, not even up into the recovery zone (or UT2, depending on what analytic scheme you want to use), let alone aerobic zone/UT1. However, heart rate is not a very good basis for estimating calories for any of the exercises you've mentioned doing.

    For the walking, one option is to use (0.3 X distance in miles X weight in pounds). That will underestimate, especially given the hills, but since you're not losing when you think you should, I wouldn't worry about that underestimate, if I were you. Or, use the link sijomial suggested, to calculate NET (not gross) calories, and log that:

    https://exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs

    Much of my post is repeating advice others have given you, of course.

    If you're at a healthy weight (or close) but want more muscle and less fat, increase or improve strength exercise. That would be pursuing recomposition (a slow process). More information about that here:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat

    If you're not following a well-designed professional program for your strength exercise, use one from this thread (despite the title, it includes programs that don't require you to have weights):

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1

    Your being (what seems like) secretive about relevant but not particularly sensitive information is not letting us help you with the things you say you want help with, frankly. Implicitly, you're deciding you want privacy for that information more than you want help. That's your decision, of course.

    Wishing you well, sincerely!

    @AnnPT77

    Thank you for that lengthy and helpful post.

    Currently using 'stretching hatha yoga, and will now add calisthenics ...thanks for that one.

    HR have a matrix from somewhere, Garmin perhaps?? has 5 zones based on my age, height and weight. age 73-4, height 5'11 3/4" and weight 166lb down from 187 in Sept last. when I started all this.
    Zone 4 is 116-131bpm @ 80-90%
    Zone 5 is 131-146bpm @ 90-100%
    so the calc suggested that I should aim at 146 as a max I assume.

    As to age I thought I had indicated that I am 73, 74 in 4 weeks!!

    Its not that I am secretive or hiding anything, just not comfortable with having stuff out there to be randomly browsed by anyone. Feel free to ask anything you think will be helpful to get me pointing in the right direction
    not looking or expecting to muscle up. This is about quality of life day to day and being able to stay on this property for as long as possible.

    We have a house In the City of Melbourne in Australia and I shudder at the thought of returning to City life. We live in a forest surrounded by beauty and quiet. Retired from Corporate life at 52 and worked the last 19 years driving trucks in cash logistics, retired at 72 because I was ready to take that step. S glad I did loving retirement.

    Health wise I have had arrhythmia for the last 14 years, I medicate but ignore it my choice is to live a full and productive life and only gave up starting and training Western horses a couple of years ago. The property is high maintenance so I am active 12 hours a day 7days a week.

    again, thank you for giving me your time,

    Andrew
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,271 Member
    4ajguthrie wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    My answer is simple so apologies for that.

    If you are hitting your calorie target but not losing weight over time then one or more of 4 things

    1 you are under estimating your calorie intake

    2 you are over estimating your calorie burns.

    3 your target is not right for you - if i set my calorie target to 3000 then doesnt matter how accurately I hit it, I won't lose weight, because 3000 is too high for my needs

    4 you have a medical issue interfering with the process.

    @ paperpudding

    Thanks for that input....

    Your points are all spot on...

    (4) Have regular medicals, including blood tests and have been in good health all my life! my body weight etc. has not caused medical comment and I wear normal size clothing for my height. Hence, when my wife commented on the fact that I had lost a lot of weight it came as a surprise. Refered back to my last check up data and fired up the scales to weigh myself and was frankly shocked to find I had shed 15lb.
    (3) Yes! For my age height etc. common wisdom suggests 161lb is the least I should aim at. However, at 164lb I still have plenty of fat around my middle, not just loose skin, am I wrong to be assuming this means that I have a way to go still? I don't know the answer to that so I am asking.
    (2) Possible, very possible. I cant find anything that will give me accurate (general) numbers on the exercises I do. However I do an hour to an hour and a half at around 120bpm heart rate, and on alternate days an hours walk through hilly country that gets me into 120-150bpm. I am relying on MFP numbers as a measure.
    (1) again possibly/probably as I am relying on the data within MFP and individual package data. I am not 'cheating' myself and not accounting for ALL consumed.

    So fixed diet and exercise over the period 23 Nov : 74.3, 74.3, 74.1, 74.7, then 74.1 till 6th Dec, then 74.4, 74.3, 74.4, 74.5, 75, then 74.3 for 5 days and 74.5,74.3 74.5,75.1, then 75 for four days ( one of which was Christmas Day) and then 75.8 for 2 days then 76.4 which is where it is stuck.
    40 days fairly constant and then 5days after Christmas up to 76+. My Christmas, and post Christmas 'binge' has remained calorie deficit days!!

    Conclusion I draw from feedback is : it is what it is, suck it up and just keep going....

    Cheers and thanks again.


    that not what I meant by 3) - I didnt mean your goal weight could be wrong target, I meant your calorie goal could be wrong target.

    So, looks like medical condition is not the problem.

    Check your calorie target is correct - ie your stats have been correctly entered in to MFP

    and then it really is just logging accuracy intake and excercise burns - for weight loss

    and experimenting with food specifics, timing etc for satiation and therefore sustainability
  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    paperpudding wrote: »
    4ajguthrie wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    My answer is simple so apologies for that.

    If you are hitting your calorie target but not losing weight over time then one or more of 4 things

    1 you are under estimating your calorie intake

    2 you are over estimating your calorie burns.

    3 your target is not right for you - if i set my calorie target to 3000 then doesnt matter how accurately I hit it, I won't lose weight, because 3000 is too high for my needs

    4 you have a medical issue interfering with the process.

    @ paperpudding

    Thanks for that input....

    Your points are all spot on...

    (4) Have regular medicals, including blood tests and have been in good health all my life! my body weight etc. has not caused medical comment and I wear normal size clothing for my height. Hence, when my wife commented on the fact that I had lost a lot of weight it came as a surprise. Refered back to my last check up data and fired up the scales to weigh myself and was frankly shocked to find I had shed 15lb.
    (3) Yes! For my age height etc. common wisdom suggests 161lb is the least I should aim at. However, at 164lb I still have plenty of fat around my middle, not just loose skin, am I wrong to be assuming this means that I have a way to go still? I don't know the answer to that so I am asking.
    (2) Possible, very possible. I cant find anything that will give me accurate (general) numbers on the exercises I do. However I do an hour to an hour and a half at around 120bpm heart rate, and on alternate days an hours walk through hilly country that gets me into 120-150bpm. I am relying on MFP numbers as a measure.
    (1) again possibly/probably as I am relying on the data within MFP and individual package data. I am not 'cheating' myself and not accounting for ALL consumed.

    So fixed diet and exercise over the period 23 Nov : 74.3, 74.3, 74.1, 74.7, then 74.1 till 6th Dec, then 74.4, 74.3, 74.4, 74.5, 75, then 74.3 for 5 days and 74.5,74.3 74.5,75.1, then 75 for four days ( one of which was Christmas Day) and then 75.8 for 2 days then 76.4 which is where it is stuck.
    40 days fairly constant and then 5days after Christmas up to 76+. My Christmas, and post Christmas 'binge' has remained calorie deficit days!!

    Conclusion I draw from feedback is : it is what it is, suck it up and just keep going....

    Cheers and thanks again.


    that not what I meant by 3) - I didnt mean your goal weight could be wrong target, I meant your calorie goal could be wrong target.

    So, looks like medical condition is not the problem.

    Check your calorie target is correct - ie. your stats have been correctly entered in to MFP

    and then it really is just logging accuracy intake and exercise burns - for weight loss

    and experimenting with food specifics, timing etc for satiation and therefore sustainability

    @paperpudding

    Calorie target I am using is the MFP active one I think, and all my stats are good, checked that thanks.

    Health wise Doctors and Specialists gave me the thumbs up to go for it so I am. We are here but once in this form so I am living it on my terms...While I still can, another decade on may be a tad different but who knows.

    As to experimenting with food, I have been tinkering, with carbs and protein % mainly at breakfast, and lunch but that is an area that I need to find someone I trust to take that further.

    Cheers

    Andrew
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,158 Member
    4ajguthrie wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    4ajguthrie wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    My answer is simple so apologies for that.

    If you are hitting your calorie target but not losing weight over time then one or more of 4 things

    1 you are under estimating your calorie intake

    2 you are over estimating your calorie burns.

    3 your target is not right for you - if i set my calorie target to 3000 then doesnt matter how accurately I hit it, I won't lose weight, because 3000 is too high for my needs

    4 you have a medical issue interfering with the process.

    @ paperpudding

    Thanks for that input....

    Your points are all spot on...

    (4) Have regular medicals, including blood tests and have been in good health all my life! my body weight etc. has not caused medical comment and I wear normal size clothing for my height. Hence, when my wife commented on the fact that I had lost a lot of weight it came as a surprise. Refered back to my last check up data and fired up the scales to weigh myself and was frankly shocked to find I had shed 15lb.
    (3) Yes! For my age height etc. common wisdom suggests 161lb is the least I should aim at. However, at 164lb I still have plenty of fat around my middle, not just loose skin, am I wrong to be assuming this means that I have a way to go still? I don't know the answer to that so I am asking.
    (2) Possible, very possible. I cant find anything that will give me accurate (general) numbers on the exercises I do. However I do an hour to an hour and a half at around 120bpm heart rate, and on alternate days an hours walk through hilly country that gets me into 120-150bpm. I am relying on MFP numbers as a measure.
    (1) again possibly/probably as I am relying on the data within MFP and individual package data. I am not 'cheating' myself and not accounting for ALL consumed.

    So fixed diet and exercise over the period 23 Nov : 74.3, 74.3, 74.1, 74.7, then 74.1 till 6th Dec, then 74.4, 74.3, 74.4, 74.5, 75, then 74.3 for 5 days and 74.5,74.3 74.5,75.1, then 75 for four days ( one of which was Christmas Day) and then 75.8 for 2 days then 76.4 which is where it is stuck.
    40 days fairly constant and then 5days after Christmas up to 76+. My Christmas, and post Christmas 'binge' has remained calorie deficit days!!

    Conclusion I draw from feedback is : it is what it is, suck it up and just keep going....

    Cheers and thanks again.

    For your yoga, use MFP's "Stretching, hatha yoga" entry under "Cardiovascular". For your no-weights strength workout, I'd suggest using "Calisthenics, home, light/moderate effort". If your Garmin is a model is one that lets you pick which exercise you're doing (as mine does), set your watch to track the yoga when you do it, and compare Garmin's calorie estimate to MFP's. Use whichever is lower. Or, if you have your Garmin synched to MFP, make sure you have negative adjustments enabled, and don't even bother to log exercise separately - let MFP and Garmin swap data and do arithmetic with the calorie totals. One of those methods is going to be about the best you can do, IMO.

    If you want feedback on exercise intensity, but have never tested for HR max, you need to at least tell us how old you are. As I said, I'm 65. I have a tested HR max. If I used my age in the (not very accurate) 220-age formula for estimating max, it would claim 155. (Other estimating formulas exist.)

    If you're reaching 156 while walking (even with hills) it's extremely likely that your max is well above 156. For me (with an actual max around 180), 120bpm is very light exercise, like 50%-ish heart rate reserve, not even up into the recovery zone (or UT2, depending on what analytic scheme you want to use), let alone aerobic zone/UT1. However, heart rate is not a very good basis for estimating calories for any of the exercises you've mentioned doing.

    For the walking, one option is to use (0.3 X distance in miles X weight in pounds). That will underestimate, especially given the hills, but since you're not losing when you think you should, I wouldn't worry about that underestimate, if I were you. Or, use the link sijomial suggested, to calculate NET (not gross) calories, and log that:

    https://exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs

    Much of my post is repeating advice others have given you, of course.

    If you're at a healthy weight (or close) but want more muscle and less fat, increase or improve strength exercise. That would be pursuing recomposition (a slow process). More information about that here:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat

    If you're not following a well-designed professional program for your strength exercise, use one from this thread (despite the title, it includes programs that don't require you to have weights):

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1

    Your being (what seems like) secretive about relevant but not particularly sensitive information is not letting us help you with the things you say you want help with, frankly. Implicitly, you're deciding you want privacy for that information more than you want help. That's your decision, of course.

    Wishing you well, sincerely!

    @AnnPT77

    Thank you for that lengthy and helpful post.

    Currently using 'stretching hatha yoga, and will now add calisthenics ...thanks for that one.

    HR have a matrix from somewhere, Garmin perhaps?? has 5 zones based on my age, height and weight. age 73-4, height 5'11 3/4" and weight 166lb down from 187 in Sept last. when I started all this.
    Zone 4 is 116-131bpm @ 80-90%
    Zone 5 is 131-146bpm @ 90-100%
    so the calc suggested that I should aim at 146 as a max I assume.

    As to age I thought I had indicated that I am 73, 74 in 4 weeks!!

    Its not that I am secretive or hiding anything, just not comfortable with having stuff out there to be randomly browsed by anyone. Feel free to ask anything you think will be helpful to get me pointing in the right direction
    not looking or expecting to muscle up. This is about quality of life day to day and being able to stay on this property for as long as possible.

    We have a house In the City of Melbourne in Australia and I shudder at the thought of returning to City life. We live in a forest surrounded by beauty and quiet. Retired from Corporate life at 52 and worked the last 19 years driving trucks in cash logistics, retired at 72 because I was ready to take that step. S glad I did loving retirement.

    Health wise I have had arrhythmia for the last 14 years, I medicate but ignore it my choice is to live a full and productive life and only gave up starting and training Western horses a couple of years ago. The property is high maintenance so I am active 12 hours a day 7days a week.

    again, thank you for giving me your time,

    Andrew

    If you're seeing 150+ heart rate while walking, without any negative health symptoms accompanying it, 146 is not your max heart rate.

    In general, max heart rate is not a number you calculate and "aim at". Instead, it's a number that can be measured (with difficulty), more like body temperature. It's the highest heart rate your body can deliver under healthy conditions. (As with body temperature, you may exceed your normal maximum heart rate during a health crisis of some sort.)

    Different people have different maximum heart rates (mostly for genetic reasons), and it tends to slowly decline as we age (some research suggests it declines more slowly in people who stay active). That tendency to decline is why age is used to *estimate* it, but those estimates are materially incorrect for a large number of people. (You appear to be one of them).

    If you've seen numbers that are 150+, and you weren't in a health crisis (i.e., you were just working hard, feeling OK otherwise) assume your maximum heart rate is a number higher than the highest one you've seen. (There are circumstances is which one might reach maximum heart rate during exercise, but it doesn't "just happen" during something like walking.) Short of actually being tested, if you've seen (say) 155, I'd suggest assuming your actual max is at least 10 higher, perhaps more.

    Take that extrapolated-from-observation estimate, plus your resting heart rate, and plug it into a heart rate range calculator (preferably Karvonen formula). There's one at this link, for example: https://www.ottawarun.com/heartrate.htm

    Enter the estimated max, don't enter your age. Use the Karvonen column as your ranges.

    That will give you better estimates of your exercise ranges. (It's still the case that the ranges have little direct applicability to estimating calories, though.)
  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    22xpp1wark9w.png

    This trend graph is what got me searching for answers. I am at a loss to explain the continuing downward trend but I am in hopes that it continues.

    As previously stated,through all of this I have been at pains to a) maintain exercise levels and calorie deficit. my break out was to have turkey instead of chicken. and one small piece of plain, shop bought christmas cake..for which I established a calorie value prior to consuming!! On 26th was back to chicken and no cake... drove me near crazy with temptation tho!!
  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Based on your height and weight, you're close to ideal weight. That's usually why it's harder to maintain or lose.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    @ninerbuff

    Absolutely so. However, I my goal to eliminate the 'spare' fat around my middle. From all my research I am not expecting that to go easily or quickly and envisage that it may be a 6-8 month, or longer process. a simple pinch test is showing me that the fat layer around the belly and sides is quite a bit thicker than in other parts.

    Still a swing of 5lb over such a short time seems odd to me, am I looking at 'normal' weight behavior? given that my body metabolism must be going through some adjustment?
  • 4ajguthrie
    4ajguthrie Posts: 43 Member
    drjf4dexktgd.png

    This is boringly typical of my days food intake. Lunch menu changes each day, sardine, chicken, salmon. On this day I had rice cakes with lunch, not usual.
  • corinasue1143
    corinasue1143 Posts: 7,464 Member
    4ajguthrie wrote: »
    22xpp1wark9w.png

    This trend graph is what got me searching for answers. I am at a loss to explain the continuing downward trend but I am in hopes that it continues.

    As previously stated,through all of this I have been at pains to a) maintain exercise levels and calorie deficit. my break out was to have turkey instead of chicken. and one small piece of plain, shop bought christmas cake..for which I established a calorie value prior to consuming!! On 26th was back to chicken and no cake... drove me near crazy with temptation tho!!


    Aha! A sharp upturn the day after unusual carb(cake) and very slow downturn after.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,158 Member
    4ajguthrie wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Based on your height and weight, you're close to ideal weight. That's usually why it's harder to maintain or lose.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    @ninerbuff

    Absolutely so. However, I my goal to eliminate the 'spare' fat around my middle. From all my research I am not expecting that to go easily or quickly and envisage that it may be a 6-8 month, or longer process. a simple pinch test is showing me that the fat layer around the belly and sides is quite a bit thicker than in other parts.

    Still a swing of 5lb over such a short time seems odd to me, am I looking at 'normal' weight behavior? given that my body metabolism must be going through some adjustment?

    Over that same approximate time period, 12/11 until today, my lowest weight was 124.4 pounds (on 12/11), and my highest was 128.6 (morning after Christmas: Imagine that! 🤣), swing of 4.2 pounds on a smaller-sized body than yours, which didn't surprise or alarm me at all . . . so I'm going to go with "Yeah, that's normal".

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