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Relationship Compatibility
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What saddens me here is if it's like that with family, how are the kids treated and how do they try to relate to aunts, uncles, and grandparents?Chef_Barbell wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »My fiancé is Asian. I am Black. We live in NYC. You would think it would be a forward thinking place to live, however we encountered more racism from his family, ex friends and random people here than anywhere.
Sadly, at least from the people I know in interracial relationships, families can be some of the most opposed.
I agree. Luckily we had no problems cutting people out of our lives. He hasn't spoken to his toxic sister in over 10 years now. His parents live close to us but we hardly see them.
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Hate to say it, but a lot of Asians (espeically older ones) have this stupid belief that African Americans shouldn't be mixed in their family. I still don't really know why either. My grandmother (who passed in '83) was prejudice against African Americans. Always asked me why they would come over to the house. She wasn't mean to them, but then again she wasn't that accomodating to them either.Chef_Barbell wrote: »My fiancé is Asian. I am Black. We live in NYC. You would think it would be a forward thinking place to live, however we encountered more racism from his family, ex friends and random people here than anywhere.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
We knew it going in... at least he did. His own mother said don't bring any Blacks or Hispanics home to his sister while he was little.
Luckily he didn't listen or grow up ignorant and racist. Together 10 years strong.9 -
What saddens me here is if it's like that with family, how are the kids treated and how do they try to relate to aunts, uncles, and grandparents?Chef_Barbell wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »My fiancé is Asian. I am Black. We live in NYC. You would think it would be a forward thinking place to live, however we encountered more racism from his family, ex friends and random people here than anywhere.
Sadly, at least from the people I know in interracial relationships, families can be some of the most opposed.
I agree. Luckily we had no problems cutting people out of our lives. He hasn't spoken to his toxic sister in over 10 years now. His parents live close to us but we hardly see them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
At least with his family, it's all full of toxic narcissistic people that we all cut off many years ago. 🤷♀️1 -
Hate to say it, but a lot of Asians (espeically older ones) have this stupid belief that African Americans shouldn't be mixed in their family. I still don't really know why either. My grandmother (who passed in '83) was prejudice against African Americans. Always asked me why they would come over to the house. She wasn't mean to them, but then again she wasn't that accomodating to them either.Chef_Barbell wrote: »My fiancé is Asian. I am Black. We live in NYC. You would think it would be a forward thinking place to live, however we encountered more racism from his family, ex friends and random people here than anywhere.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Genuinely curious- so the mere chance that this may happen, due to outdated thinking of older generations, it’s just easier to date your own race? This doesn’t seem like a compatibility issue, this seems like an ethical issue in the family, and that cycle needs to be broken.
My husband’s Asian Buddhist family has embraced me and my family with open arms, and my White Conservative family has embraced him and his family. Although my family will say embarrassing or ignorant things from time to time, trying to be accommodating, there is nothing but love. This is very possible, and it’s happening more and more. We don’t get to a place of unity by avoiding people due to their race and marrying out of convenience.
As far as sharing and respecting customs, I wouldn’t use 90 day Fiancé as a source on how Americans can’t respect other cultures. And if there was an issue regarding gender roles, then that would be a compatibility issue, not a race issue. Believe me, there’s plenty of white boys with that mindset as well that I wouldn’t touch with a 10 foot pole.5 -
I don't think that relationship compatibility really has to do a whole lot with race, but cultural differences may play a part. The reason I say that is that I think relationships tend to work better if both partners share a lot of the same values and perspective in life, and I think our culture can shape that. If both partners can genuinely learn about and come to appreciate their cultural differences (if there are any) and come to a general common ground on their values, I think whatever cultural differences they may have shouldn't be a hindrance to their relationship.
There is the issue that people in interracial couples could unfortunately face negativity and racism from the outside world, including family, which obviously if you were both of the same race they wouldn't face. As long as the couple is a united front in how to deal with it, even with the possibility of it being close family members, I still think it could work...and in fact make them stronger as a couple as those who don't have to deal with that.
Having said that, I'm a white Anglo-Saxon married to another Anglo-Saxon, but have dated a bit outside of my race. We didn't last not because of differences in race, but other normal couple stuff.1 -
msalicia07 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I'm on mobile right now and can't link anything but there's a Wikipedia page on interracial marriage in the US, you can look at the academic research. It says for example that white men/black women couples are less likely to divorce than white/white couples, which is surprising. It depends on gender and which racial group.
But overall there is a higher rate of divorce for interracial couples, you can look at the statistics there.
The Wikipedia article says that the risk is particularly high for couples marrying in the late 80s. Fortunately that is a risk factor that 100% of couples getting married today can avoid.
Did you notice the table in that article says that Black/Black marriages have the highest rate of divorce of the possible pairings noted? Yet I don't think anyone would imagine using that the argue that Black people should avoid intraracial marriages (I hope not anyway!). Also according to that table, interracial marriages between whites and Asians actually have a lower divorce rate than white/white pairings. But again, I don't think anyone should argue that white people shouldn't marry other white people.
The truth is that SOME forms of interracial marriages do appear to have a higher divorce rate than others, at least for marriages that began during certain periods. But it doesn't appear that simply being interracial increases the risk and marrying someone of your own race doesn't necessarily lower the risk.
That article also cites a statistic that shows a marriage with a Black wife and a white husband was 44% LESS likely to end in divorce than white/white marriages over the same time period. You note this in your post, but I think it's pretty relevant to the basis of your argument and shouldn't just be glossed over.
The truth appears to be that some particular pairings -- both inter- and intraracial -- do have a higher divorce rate than others. Some interracial pairings appear more stable than some intraracial ones. The bottom line is that if you're looking to reduce your rate of getting divorced, it's probably much smarter to focus on things like compatible lifestyle goals and values, argument styles, support structures, and chemistry instead of the race of your partner.
This is precisely my point and thought process. There’s so many variables to consider, and it’s even more important to note that not all interracial relationships can be put in the same box. Thank you for breaking down the source so well, as it’s important to have a more well rounded understanding, especially for those who have their biases. I would wager to say for each passing generation, those statistics will change dramatically.
I think it would be foolish to underestimate the impact that lack of social/family support can have on relationship health. This isn't to say that some people can't make it work in the face of disapproval, obviously that happens. But for many people, marriage is going to be harder if people around you are generally assuming that your partnership is doomed or that your marriage shouldn't have happened.
I'd like to think we're improving -- at least in some areas -- in social and family approval of interracial marriages so I wouldn't at all be surprised to see at least some change in divorce rates related to that.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »msalicia07 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I'm on mobile right now and can't link anything but there's a Wikipedia page on interracial marriage in the US, you can look at the academic research. It says for example that white men/black women couples are less likely to divorce than white/white couples, which is surprising. It depends on gender and which racial group.
But overall there is a higher rate of divorce for interracial couples, you can look at the statistics there.
The Wikipedia article says that the risk is particularly high for couples marrying in the late 80s. Fortunately that is a risk factor that 100% of couples getting married today can avoid.
Did you notice the table in that article says that Black/Black marriages have the highest rate of divorce of the possible pairings noted? Yet I don't think anyone would imagine using that the argue that Black people should avoid intraracial marriages (I hope not anyway!). Also according to that table, interracial marriages between whites and Asians actually have a lower divorce rate than white/white pairings. But again, I don't think anyone should argue that white people shouldn't marry other white people.
The truth is that SOME forms of interracial marriages do appear to have a higher divorce rate than others, at least for marriages that began during certain periods. But it doesn't appear that simply being interracial increases the risk and marrying someone of your own race doesn't necessarily lower the risk.
That article also cites a statistic that shows a marriage with a Black wife and a white husband was 44% LESS likely to end in divorce than white/white marriages over the same time period. You note this in your post, but I think it's pretty relevant to the basis of your argument and shouldn't just be glossed over.
The truth appears to be that some particular pairings -- both inter- and intraracial -- do have a higher divorce rate than others. Some interracial pairings appear more stable than some intraracial ones. The bottom line is that if you're looking to reduce your rate of getting divorced, it's probably much smarter to focus on things like compatible lifestyle goals and values, argument styles, support structures, and chemistry instead of the race of your partner.
This is precisely my point and thought process. There’s so many variables to consider, and it’s even more important to note that not all interracial relationships can be put in the same box. Thank you for breaking down the source so well, as it’s important to have a more well rounded understanding, especially for those who have their biases. I would wager to say for each passing generation, those statistics will change dramatically.
I think it would be foolish to underestimate the impact that lack of social/family support can have on relationship health. This isn't to say that some people can't make it work in the face of disapproval, obviously that happens. But for many people, marriage is going to be harder if people around you are generally assuming that your partnership is doomed or that your marriage shouldn't have happened.
I'd like to think we're improving -- at least in some areas -- in social and family approval of interracial marriages so I wouldn't at all be surprised to see at least some change in divorce rates related to that.
There in lies the vicious cycle for some- family doesn’t support the couple, puts pressure on the relationship, the couple ends it, and the family says, “See! I told you!” It’s a self fulfilling prophecy, all based on race and not on true compatibility. One generation at a time we are breaking barriers, trying to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Family pressure based on race is just one of the many variables that effect relationships, and an unnecessary variable.3 -
I ironically had more issues in my previous same race relationship from his family and friends than this one. My current partner had no issues cutting people off who didn't have our best interests at heart. My ex fed into the drama from his family and friends and along with other issues, that ultimately ended the relationship.3
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Chef_Barbell wrote: »
Hate to say it, but a lot of Asians (espeically older ones) have this stupid belief that African Americans shouldn't be mixed in their family. I still don't really know why either. My grandmother (who passed in '83) was prejudice against African Americans. Always asked me why they would come over to the house. She wasn't mean to them, but then again she wasn't that accomodating to them either.Chef_Barbell wrote: »My fiancé is Asian. I am Black. We live in NYC. You would think it would be a forward thinking place to live, however we encountered more racism from his family, ex friends and random people here than anywhere.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
We knew it going in... at least he did. His own mother said don't bring any Blacks or Hispanics home to his sister while he was little.
Luckily he didn't listen or grow up ignorant and racist. Together 10 years strong.
Yikes on bikes, MIL...Glad you're making it work.
Re: the conversation above about divorce statistics. It's important to remember that divorce is not actually a bad thing! The marriages that don't end in divorce, end in death, and when divorce becomes legal/easier/more common, the number of "accidental deaths" of spouses goes way down. I think the fact that the numbers are all over the place for different racial configurations of couples indicates that the effect of race on the long-term viability of a marriage is stronger at the systemic level than the individual level - race affects so many other things, which in turn have an effect on one's relationships, as opposed to the relationship succeeding or failing because the people involved are XYZ race(s).3 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »I ironically had more issues in my previous same race relationship from his family and friends than this one. My current partner had no issues cutting people off who didn't have our best interests at heart. My ex fed into the drama from his family and friends and along with other issues, that ultimately ended the relationship.
I was thinking about this earlier. Families in general can dislike someone for a myriad of reasons, but it shouldn’t stop us from dating someone because there might be a personal clash. Sorry you’ve had *kitten* family support from the partners side.2 -
On the notion of "only your race or culture" or however it's worded, I see those a distinct. Race is something that is purely physical, it says nothing about who you are as a person. I don't know if I can say the same about culture. I think that does have a big influence. I'm not saying I would never be compatible with someone of another culture, but I think it's a characteristic on the level of many other things we see on dating sites to determine compatibility, such as educational level, interest in fitness, interest in other activities, religion...1
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janejellyroll wrote: »msalicia07 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I'm on mobile right now and can't link anything but there's a Wikipedia page on interracial marriage in the US, you can look at the academic research. It says for example that white men/black women couples are less likely to divorce than white/white couples, which is surprising. It depends on gender and which racial group.
But overall there is a higher rate of divorce for interracial couples, you can look at the statistics there.
The Wikipedia article says that the risk is particularly high for couples marrying in the late 80s. Fortunately that is a risk factor that 100% of couples getting married today can avoid.
Did you notice the table in that article says that Black/Black marriages have the highest rate of divorce of the possible pairings noted? Yet I don't think anyone would imagine using that the argue that Black people should avoid intraracial marriages (I hope not anyway!). Also according to that table, interracial marriages between whites and Asians actually have a lower divorce rate than white/white pairings. But again, I don't think anyone should argue that white people shouldn't marry other white people.
The truth is that SOME forms of interracial marriages do appear to have a higher divorce rate than others, at least for marriages that began during certain periods. But it doesn't appear that simply being interracial increases the risk and marrying someone of your own race doesn't necessarily lower the risk.
That article also cites a statistic that shows a marriage with a Black wife and a white husband was 44% LESS likely to end in divorce than white/white marriages over the same time period. You note this in your post, but I think it's pretty relevant to the basis of your argument and shouldn't just be glossed over.
The truth appears to be that some particular pairings -- both inter- and intraracial -- do have a higher divorce rate than others. Some interracial pairings appear more stable than some intraracial ones. The bottom line is that if you're looking to reduce your rate of getting divorced, it's probably much smarter to focus on things like compatible lifestyle goals and values, argument styles, support structures, and chemistry instead of the race of your partner.
This is precisely my point and thought process. There’s so many variables to consider, and it’s even more important to note that not all interracial relationships can be put in the same box. Thank you for breaking down the source so well, as it’s important to have a more well rounded understanding, especially for those who have their biases. I would wager to say for each passing generation, those statistics will change dramatically.
I think it would be foolish to underestimate the impact that lack of social/family support can have on relationship health. This isn't to say that some people can't make it work in the face of disapproval, obviously that happens. But for many people, marriage is going to be harder if people around you are generally assuming that your partnership is doomed or that your marriage shouldn't have happened.
I'd like to think we're improving -- at least in some areas -- in social and family approval of interracial marriages so I wouldn't at all be surprised to see at least some change in divorce rates related to that.
But how "real," for want of a better word, was that social/family support if it dissolves in the face of a family member choosing a partner of a different race? It's like saying, we'll support you so long as you only do things we approve of (and possibly if you hide any parts of your own identity that we disapprove of). So the choice is really about trading social/family support for having to live your life according to other people's rules/beliefs/preferences/prejudices.
Not everyone is going to make the same choice, but some will prefer to leave behind that false offering of support and build a support system of friends.2 -
You know, I believe my generation has accepted it more. Many at my age seem to have no problems with family dating outside of our race HERE IN THE US. As for the actual Philippines itself, I can't say.msalicia07 wrote: »
Hate to say it, but a lot of Asians (espeically older ones) have this stupid belief that African Americans shouldn't be mixed in their family. I still don't really know why either. My grandmother (who passed in '83) was prejudice against African Americans. Always asked me why they would come over to the house. She wasn't mean to them, but then again she wasn't that accomodating to them either.Chef_Barbell wrote: »My fiancé is Asian. I am Black. We live in NYC. You would think it would be a forward thinking place to live, however we encountered more racism from his family, ex friends and random people here than anywhere.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Genuinely curious- so the mere chance that this may happen, due to outdated thinking of older generations, it’s just easier to date your own race? This doesn’t seem like a compatibility issue, this seems like an ethical issue in the family, and that cycle needs to be broken.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2 -
richardgavel wrote: »On the notion of "only your race or culture" or however it's worded, I see those a distinct. Race is something that is purely physical, it says nothing about who you are as a person. I don't know if I can say the same about culture. I think that does have a big influence. I'm not saying I would never be compatible with someone of another culture, but I think it's a characteristic on the level of many other things we see on dating sites to determine compatibility, such as educational level, interest in fitness, interest in other activities, religion...
Thing is, some (sub-)cultures can have similarities, even when national origin or race differ. Certain values, preferences, attitudes recur in different cultures and subcultures. Just to give some obvious examples of things superficially different cultures can share: Religious tradition, family cohesion (or lack), value placed on academic or financial success, family size preference, gender roles . . . .
I've long argued - only partly tongue in cheek - that complementary neuroses are the basis of many successful relationships. My trivial example is that I dislike driving, and my late husband disliked riding with other drivers. More profoundly, perhaps overbearing people pair better with meek ones, sneaky people with gullible ones, narcissists with those who need a confident idol, and so forth? 😉3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »msalicia07 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I'm on mobile right now and can't link anything but there's a Wikipedia page on interracial marriage in the US, you can look at the academic research. It says for example that white men/black women couples are less likely to divorce than white/white couples, which is surprising. It depends on gender and which racial group.
But overall there is a higher rate of divorce for interracial couples, you can look at the statistics there.
The Wikipedia article says that the risk is particularly high for couples marrying in the late 80s. Fortunately that is a risk factor that 100% of couples getting married today can avoid.
Did you notice the table in that article says that Black/Black marriages have the highest rate of divorce of the possible pairings noted? Yet I don't think anyone would imagine using that the argue that Black people should avoid intraracial marriages (I hope not anyway!). Also according to that table, interracial marriages between whites and Asians actually have a lower divorce rate than white/white pairings. But again, I don't think anyone should argue that white people shouldn't marry other white people.
The truth is that SOME forms of interracial marriages do appear to have a higher divorce rate than others, at least for marriages that began during certain periods. But it doesn't appear that simply being interracial increases the risk and marrying someone of your own race doesn't necessarily lower the risk.
That article also cites a statistic that shows a marriage with a Black wife and a white husband was 44% LESS likely to end in divorce than white/white marriages over the same time period. You note this in your post, but I think it's pretty relevant to the basis of your argument and shouldn't just be glossed over.
The truth appears to be that some particular pairings -- both inter- and intraracial -- do have a higher divorce rate than others. Some interracial pairings appear more stable than some intraracial ones. The bottom line is that if you're looking to reduce your rate of getting divorced, it's probably much smarter to focus on things like compatible lifestyle goals and values, argument styles, support structures, and chemistry instead of the race of your partner.
This is precisely my point and thought process. There’s so many variables to consider, and it’s even more important to note that not all interracial relationships can be put in the same box. Thank you for breaking down the source so well, as it’s important to have a more well rounded understanding, especially for those who have their biases. I would wager to say for each passing generation, those statistics will change dramatically.
I think it would be foolish to underestimate the impact that lack of social/family support can have on relationship health. This isn't to say that some people can't make it work in the face of disapproval, obviously that happens. But for many people, marriage is going to be harder if people around you are generally assuming that your partnership is doomed or that your marriage shouldn't have happened.
I'd like to think we're improving -- at least in some areas -- in social and family approval of interracial marriages so I wouldn't at all be surprised to see at least some change in divorce rates related to that.
But how "real," for want of a better word, was that social/family support if it dissolves in the face of a family member choosing a partner of a different race? It's like saying, we'll support you so long as you only do things we approve of (and possibly if you hide any parts of your own identity that we disapprove of). So the choice is really about trading social/family support for having to live your life according to other people's rules/beliefs/preferences/prejudices.
Not everyone is going to make the same choice, but some will prefer to leave behind that false offering of support and build a support system of friends.
Exactly this... borderline toxic narcissism. Helps no one.4 -
You know, I believe my generation has accepted it more. Many at my age seem to have no problems with family dating outside of our race HERE IN THE US. As for the actual Philippines itself, I can't say.msalicia07 wrote: »
Hate to say it, but a lot of Asians (espeically older ones) have this stupid belief that African Americans shouldn't be mixed in their family. I still don't really know why either. My grandmother (who passed in '83) was prejudice against African Americans. Always asked me why they would come over to the house. She wasn't mean to them, but then again she wasn't that accomodating to them either.Chef_Barbell wrote: »My fiancé is Asian. I am Black. We live in NYC. You would think it would be a forward thinking place to live, however we encountered more racism from his family, ex friends and random people here than anywhere.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Genuinely curious- so the mere chance that this may happen, due to outdated thinking of older generations, it’s just easier to date your own race? This doesn’t seem like a compatibility issue, this seems like an ethical issue in the family, and that cycle needs to be broken.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I can see that. I don’t believe it’s because of the culture though, even though it might look like it. I think the lack of exposure just means it will take longer for certain places to adapt and accept something different. Change can be scary for people who have only done 1 thing for so long.3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »msalicia07 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I'm on mobile right now and can't link anything but there's a Wikipedia page on interracial marriage in the US, you can look at the academic research. It says for example that white men/black women couples are less likely to divorce than white/white couples, which is surprising. It depends on gender and which racial group.
But overall there is a higher rate of divorce for interracial couples, you can look at the statistics there.
The Wikipedia article says that the risk is particularly high for couples marrying in the late 80s. Fortunately that is a risk factor that 100% of couples getting married today can avoid.
Did you notice the table in that article says that Black/Black marriages have the highest rate of divorce of the possible pairings noted? Yet I don't think anyone would imagine using that the argue that Black people should avoid intraracial marriages (I hope not anyway!). Also according to that table, interracial marriages between whites and Asians actually have a lower divorce rate than white/white pairings. But again, I don't think anyone should argue that white people shouldn't marry other white people.
The truth is that SOME forms of interracial marriages do appear to have a higher divorce rate than others, at least for marriages that began during certain periods. But it doesn't appear that simply being interracial increases the risk and marrying someone of your own race doesn't necessarily lower the risk.
That article also cites a statistic that shows a marriage with a Black wife and a white husband was 44% LESS likely to end in divorce than white/white marriages over the same time period. You note this in your post, but I think it's pretty relevant to the basis of your argument and shouldn't just be glossed over.
The truth appears to be that some particular pairings -- both inter- and intraracial -- do have a higher divorce rate than others. Some interracial pairings appear more stable than some intraracial ones. The bottom line is that if you're looking to reduce your rate of getting divorced, it's probably much smarter to focus on things like compatible lifestyle goals and values, argument styles, support structures, and chemistry instead of the race of your partner.
This is precisely my point and thought process. There’s so many variables to consider, and it’s even more important to note that not all interracial relationships can be put in the same box. Thank you for breaking down the source so well, as it’s important to have a more well rounded understanding, especially for those who have their biases. I would wager to say for each passing generation, those statistics will change dramatically.
I think it would be foolish to underestimate the impact that lack of social/family support can have on relationship health. This isn't to say that some people can't make it work in the face of disapproval, obviously that happens. But for many people, marriage is going to be harder if people around you are generally assuming that your partnership is doomed or that your marriage shouldn't have happened.
I'd like to think we're improving -- at least in some areas -- in social and family approval of interracial marriages so I wouldn't at all be surprised to see at least some change in divorce rates related to that.
But how "real," for want of a better word, was that social/family support if it dissolves in the face of a family member choosing a partner of a different race? It's like saying, we'll support you so long as you only do things we approve of (and possibly if you hide any parts of your own identity that we disapprove of). So the choice is really about trading social/family support for having to live your life according to other people's rules/beliefs/preferences/prejudices.
Not everyone is going to make the same choice, but some will prefer to leave behind that false offering of support and build a support system of friends.
I don't think support that is contingent on someone choosing the "right" race is a good thing or that people should choose partners based on what their family is willing to support.
But the truth is that when you're married in a context where your family likes your spouse and assumes it is a good thing that your marriage continues, it's a real thing that makes marriage easier. Not BETTER, but easier.
I appreciate that my family likes my husband. If I had found out they didn't and that it was for bigoted reasons, I still would have married him and I almost certainly would have limited my contact with them and chosen different forms of support and I would support anyone else doing the same thing. But I won't lie: the fact that they do like him has made some parts of married life easier. I see what people go through when their family doesn't support their choice of partner for unfair reasons and I wish nobody had to go through that.
What I was trying to get at is that we can't just fault some interracial relationships for having a higher divorce rate (if that is what the statistics show) without acknowledging that marriage doesn't take place in a vacuum and having your family not like your choice of spouse can be hard on a marriage. In more neutral circumstances, maybe some more of those marriages would work.4 -
Well the Philippines at one time housed many Americans when we had an Air Force Base and Naval Base there. So I don't believe it's all lack of exposure. Parents are a big factor for many of their kids choice in a spouse there. And while you will have an occasional rebel here and there, because most Filipino familes are usually pretty close, if your family doesn't approve of your spouse, losing contact with them might be more important. It's not to say they choose the spouse for directly, but they may not approve of that spouse for religious, race, or financial status.msalicia07 wrote: »
You know, I believe my generation has accepted it more. Many at my age seem to have no problems with family dating outside of our race HERE IN THE US. As for the actual Philippines itself, I can't say.msalicia07 wrote: »
Hate to say it, but a lot of Asians (espeically older ones) have this stupid belief that African Americans shouldn't be mixed in their family. I still don't really know why either. My grandmother (who passed in '83) was prejudice against African Americans. Always asked me why they would come over to the house. She wasn't mean to them, but then again she wasn't that accomodating to them either.Chef_Barbell wrote: »My fiancé is Asian. I am Black. We live in NYC. You would think it would be a forward thinking place to live, however we encountered more racism from his family, ex friends and random people here than anywhere.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Genuinely curious- so the mere chance that this may happen, due to outdated thinking of older generations, it’s just easier to date your own race? This doesn’t seem like a compatibility issue, this seems like an ethical issue in the family, and that cycle needs to be broken.
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I can see that. I don’t believe it’s because of the culture though, even though it might look like it. I think the lack of exposure just means it will take longer for certain places to adapt and accept something different. Change can be scary for people who have only done 1 thing for so long.
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2 -
Well the Philippines at one time housed many Americans when we had an Air Force Base and Naval Base there. So I don't believe it's all lack of exposure. Parents are a big factor for many of their kids choice in a spouse there. And while you will have an occasional rebel here and there, because most Filipino familes are usually pretty close, if your family doesn't approve of your spouse, losing contact with them might be more important. It's not to say they choose the spouse for directly, but they may not approve of that spouse for religious, race, or financial status.msalicia07 wrote: »
You know, I believe my generation has accepted it more. Many at my age seem to have no problems with family dating outside of our race HERE IN THE US. As for the actual Philippines itself, I can't say.msalicia07 wrote: »
Hate to say it, but a lot of Asians (espeically older ones) have this stupid belief that African Americans shouldn't be mixed in their family. I still don't really know why either. My grandmother (who passed in '83) was prejudice against African Americans. Always asked me why they would come over to the house. She wasn't mean to them, but then again she wasn't that accomodating to them either.Chef_Barbell wrote: »My fiancé is Asian. I am Black. We live in NYC. You would think it would be a forward thinking place to live, however we encountered more racism from his family, ex friends and random people here than anywhere.
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Genuinely curious- so the mere chance that this may happen, due to outdated thinking of older generations, it’s just easier to date your own race? This doesn’t seem like a compatibility issue, this seems like an ethical issue in the family, and that cycle needs to be broken.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I can see that. I don’t believe it’s because of the culture though, even though it might look like it. I think the lack of exposure just means it will take longer for certain places to adapt and accept something different. Change can be scary for people who have only done 1 thing for so long.
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I think you took my statement to mean they have zero exposure when I’m saying it’s limited. And because of the limitations the families preferences are based off what is normal to them. Unfortunately that gets passed down endlessly until the exposure balances out and change takes place whether it is accepted or not.0 -
How do your families react though on both sides? Is there any contention with you being Atheist and her family side religious? And vice versa?In my country we have a saying: "wives and cows only from your villages".
I'm sure if you go back a few centuries that really made sense... Or people used to think so.
Nowadays I don't think so. There is a wider knowledge of other people's traditions. So you know what you are getting into when you start a relationship.
I'm Italian and my wife American. She doesn't speak my language and I had to learn hers. She's very tall clear skin, I'm very short with Mediterranean skin color. She believes in a religion, I'm atheist. Completely different backgrounds as you can see.
We've been married for 20 years and our relationship is still working great. Sure we've had our differences sometimes like in every relationship, but that was not due to the fact that we come from 2 different worlds. I fell in love with her personality, not with the fact that she eats turkey on Thanksgiving day and I don't even have a Thanksgiving day.
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My wife's side of the family is very religious. But sincerely it never came out that I'm atheist. I don't know how they would take it, probably not well. Due to distance we only meet for Christmas so there is not really much a relation count on. By my side I have no problems. The way I see it I learned to respect any person belief or ways of living. Sometimes not being linked to a religion leaves you more open to accepting other people way of living.
My mother had no problems and she liked my wife. As I said my father didn't like my wife. I don't think it was because she was a different culture. I think it had to do more with the fact that she was divorced with kids and in his eyes she was just looking for someone to have by her side to get by tough moments.
The longer we go on in years the less will matter anyway. My daughter is like you. Born in the USA but grown up in an environment of mixed culture. She will be more adaptable if she ever had to marry someone from a different culture.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »msalicia07 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I'm on mobile right now and can't link anything but there's a Wikipedia page on interracial marriage in the US, you can look at the academic research. It says for example that white men/black women couples are less likely to divorce than white/white couples, which is surprising. It depends on gender and which racial group.
But overall there is a higher rate of divorce for interracial couples, you can look at the statistics there.
The Wikipedia article says that the risk is particularly high for couples marrying in the late 80s. Fortunately that is a risk factor that 100% of couples getting married today can avoid.
Did you notice the table in that article says that Black/Black marriages have the highest rate of divorce of the possible pairings noted? Yet I don't think anyone would imagine using that the argue that Black people should avoid intraracial marriages (I hope not anyway!). Also according to that table, interracial marriages between whites and Asians actually have a lower divorce rate than white/white pairings. But again, I don't think anyone should argue that white people shouldn't marry other white people.
The truth is that SOME forms of interracial marriages do appear to have a higher divorce rate than others, at least for marriages that began during certain periods. But it doesn't appear that simply being interracial increases the risk and marrying someone of your own race doesn't necessarily lower the risk.
That article also cites a statistic that shows a marriage with a Black wife and a white husband was 44% LESS likely to end in divorce than white/white marriages over the same time period. You note this in your post, but I think it's pretty relevant to the basis of your argument and shouldn't just be glossed over.
The truth appears to be that some particular pairings -- both inter- and intraracial -- do have a higher divorce rate than others. Some interracial pairings appear more stable than some intraracial ones. The bottom line is that if you're looking to reduce your rate of getting divorced, it's probably much smarter to focus on things like compatible lifestyle goals and values, argument styles, support structures, and chemistry instead of the race of your partner.
This is precisely my point and thought process. There’s so many variables to consider, and it’s even more important to note that not all interracial relationships can be put in the same box. Thank you for breaking down the source so well, as it’s important to have a more well rounded understanding, especially for those who have their biases. I would wager to say for each passing generation, those statistics will change dramatically.
I think it would be foolish to underestimate the impact that lack of social/family support can have on relationship health. This isn't to say that some people can't make it work in the face of disapproval, obviously that happens. But for many people, marriage is going to be harder if people around you are generally assuming that your partnership is doomed or that your marriage shouldn't have happened.
I'd like to think we're improving -- at least in some areas -- in social and family approval of interracial marriages so I wouldn't at all be surprised to see at least some change in divorce rates related to that.
But how "real," for want of a better word, was that social/family support if it dissolves in the face of a family member choosing a partner of a different race? It's like saying, we'll support you so long as you only do things we approve of (and possibly if you hide any parts of your own identity that we disapprove of). So the choice is really about trading social/family support for having to live your life according to other people's rules/beliefs/preferences/prejudices.
Not everyone is going to make the same choice, but some will prefer to leave behind that false offering of support and build a support system of friends.
I don't think support that is contingent on someone choosing the "right" race is a good thing or that people should choose partners based on what their family is willing to support.
But the truth is that when you're married in a context where your family likes your spouse and assumes it is a good thing that your marriage continues, it's a real thing that makes marriage easier. Not BETTER, but easier.
I appreciate that my family likes my husband. If I had found out they didn't and that it was for bigoted reasons, I still would have married him and I almost certainly would have limited my contact with them and chosen different forms of support and I would support anyone else doing the same thing. But I won't lie: the fact that they do like him has made some parts of married life easier. I see what people go through when their family doesn't support their choice of partner for unfair reasons and I wish nobody had to go through that.
What I was trying to get at is that we can't just fault some interracial relationships for having a higher divorce rate (if that is what the statistics show) without acknowledging that marriage doesn't take place in a vacuum and having your family not like your choice of spouse can be hard on a marriage. In more neutral circumstances, maybe some more of those marriages would work.
Completely agree with you here. I'm sorry. When I first read the earlier passage, or misread it, I thought it sounded like you were suggesting that the interracial marriage choice led to the poor support, and I just wanted to say the support was always poor, in that it was contingent on doing what the family wanted.
Now I'm seeing you're not comparing two possible marriages the same individual could make (intraracial, with potential continued family "support," versus interracial, with loss of family "support"), but instead are comparing intraracial marriages as a whole with interracial marriages as a whole, and you're positing the former face a higher incidence of family approval and support and hence a greater likelihood of surviving.2 -
celticria46 wrote: »Marrying different race leads to problems. People should stay with their own kind
More importantly God says we should not be unequally yoked.. Ie.. a believer with a non-believer.. different faiths..
But we live in a fallen sinful world that is lost and doomed to destroy it self so.. self gratification comes first..and most marry for financial reason loneliness, infatuation or simple cause it's been conditioned in their head grow up go to school get a job get married have kids get a mortgage then die.. Puppets on a string..
Smh
What the actual heck... 😳😐 :noway:11 -
My personal opinion on this is that many Americans really have no idea how to adapt to certain cultures. Notice I said many. We have so many freedoms here in America and when some see something like a female being more subservient to their husband based on culture, some freak out and say that it's America and that shouldn't be observed here. According to whom? If a culture follows certain traditions and it's their choice, then why have a voice of opposition if that person has absolutely NOTHING to do with it?msalicia07 wrote: »A little background information-
I’m a Caucasian, blonde, blue eyed female, American. My husband is Asian, has dark features, about my height, close to my weight, and his family fled the Khmer Rouge (he is 1st generation American). We are both in our early 30’s.
In another thread it was commented that marrying your race and culture creates more compatibility. Another poster said race is just aesthetics and that proximity, as well as personality, are what make relationships compatible. I didn’t want to derail the thread so thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss, as I myself am in an interracial marriage.
I have found people have incredibly strong opinions about what they think makes a relationship compatible, and we are subject to comments and questions nearly everyday about our relationship. Mostly it’s when my husband is at the hospital and shows a picture of us, his associates are astounded I’m a blonde white female.
Because of him I have learned about the world of prearranged marriages, and how common they still are. I’ve learned many new customs, food preparations, and 2 new languages. But in no way did I feel these differences meant we weren’t compatible. It was our outlook on life that deciphered that.
Any thoughts and personal experiences? The more I dive into this the more I realize there is a world of belief systems that are being passed down, and I’d like to know what they are and why you believe them.
I'll also say that from just watching shows like 90 Fiance and how some Americans go to other countries and disrespect how that country follows their culture leaves me with the understanding when countries say that Americans are some of the rudest people on Earth.
I'm born and raised American. I'm of Filipino decent. I do follow a lot of Filipino culture especially where it comes to respect of elders regardless if they are your family or not. We have some non Filipinos in my family tree and they adapt to our culture when it comes to family gatherings, parties, weddings, funerals, etc.
But IMO, while I do not care whether there is interracial relationships, I DO believe that if one does have a relationship with someone of their own race, there are less problems especially with those who though they may be fine with adaptation, friends and family DON'T seem to do as well. And when opposing families get to disagreeing how the relationship should be, that puts a lot of pressure on the couple themselves.
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Well written and so true especially when it comes to respecting one's elders0 -
celticria46 wrote: »Marrying different race leads to problems. People should stay with their own kind
More importantly God says we should not be unequally yoked.. Ie.. a believer with a non-believer.. different faiths..
But we live in a fallen sinful world that is lost and doomed to destroy it self so.. self gratification comes first..and most marry for financial reason loneliness, infatuation or simple cause it's been conditioned in their head grow up go to school get a job get married have kids get a mortgage then die.. Puppets on a string..
Smh
Where did God said this?
You do know that God did not write the Bible right and as someone said to me - What pen did God use to write the Bible?
Now if you were to say to me that God or the Spiritual Being gave the men inspiration to write the Bible - then we will agree0 -
celticria46 wrote: »Marrying different race leads to problems. People should stay with their own kind
More importantly God says we should not be unequally yoked.. Ie.. a believer with a non-believer.. different faiths..
But we live in a fallen sinful world that is lost and doomed to destroy it self so.. self gratification comes first..and most marry for financial reason loneliness, infatuation or simple cause it's been conditioned in their head grow up go to school get a job get married have kids get a mortgage then die.. Puppets on a string..
Smh
Where did God said this?
You do know that God did not write the Bible right and as someone said to me - What pen did God use to write the Bible?
Now if you were to say to me that God or the Spiritual Being gave the men inspiration to write the Bible - then we will agree
You even have to see what Bible. Each Christian religion cherry picked what books to believe in and put them in their Bible, leaving out other books.
Then you have to look at the translation. Many passages from original Hebrew have been completely changed. In several passages, where you see the word God, Lord our other ways to name him, in the Hebrew version there is god+name... And many times it's different.
I've seen theological discussions and it really requires faith to believe the word recommendations they give lol.
But we better avoid this path, it usually leads to very heated discussions.2 -
My personal opinion on this is that many Americans really have no idea how to adapt to certain cultures. Notice I said many. We have so many freedoms here in America and when some see something like a female being more subservient to their husband based on culture, some freak out and say that it's America and that shouldn't be observed here. According to whom? If a culture follows certain traditions and it's their choice, then why have a voice of opposition if that person has absolutely NOTHING to do with it?msalicia07 wrote: »A little background information-
I’m a Caucasian, blonde, blue eyed female, American. My husband is Asian, has dark features, about my height, close to my weight, and his family fled the Khmer Rouge (he is 1st generation American). We are both in our early 30’s.
In another thread it was commented that marrying your race and culture creates more compatibility. Another poster said race is just aesthetics and that proximity, as well as personality, are what make relationships compatible. I didn’t want to derail the thread so thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss, as I myself am in an interracial marriage.
I have found people have incredibly strong opinions about what they think makes a relationship compatible, and we are subject to comments and questions nearly everyday about our relationship. Mostly it’s when my husband is at the hospital and shows a picture of us, his associates are astounded I’m a blonde white female.
Because of him I have learned about the world of prearranged marriages, and how common they still are. I’ve learned many new customs, food preparations, and 2 new languages. But in no way did I feel these differences meant we weren’t compatible. It was our outlook on life that deciphered that.
Any thoughts and personal experiences? The more I dive into this the more I realize there is a world of belief systems that are being passed down, and I’d like to know what they are and why you believe them.
I'll also say that from just watching shows like 90 Fiance and how some Americans go to other countries and disrespect how that country follows their culture leaves me with the understanding when countries say that Americans are some of the rudest people on Earth.
I'm born and raised American. I'm of Filipino decent. I do follow a lot of Filipino culture especially where it comes to respect of elders regardless if they are your family or not. We have some non Filipinos in my family tree and they adapt to our culture when it comes to family gatherings, parties, weddings, funerals, etc.
But IMO, while I do not care whether there is interracial relationships, I DO believe that if one does have a relationship with someone of their own race, there are less problems especially with those who though they may be fine with adaptation, friends and family DON'T seem to do as well. And when opposing families get to disagreeing how the relationship should be, that puts a lot of pressure on the couple themselves.
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Well written and so true especially when it comes to respecting one's elders
Respect is given when received. Being an elder does not give one the right to be a tool or a racist ahole. I feel in a lot of cultures, elders have this "right" to be as disrespectful as possible with no recourse other than to obey blindly.6 -
As an Atheist, I totally disagree. My wife's side of the family is VERY RELIGIOUS. They had concerns at first, but once they saw that I never disparaged against anything they did religiously and showed respect, they accepted me as one of the family. I got married in a Catholic Church and ritual. I didn't care. I just wanted to show them that I'm willing to work with all of them to make the marriage easier.celticria46 wrote: »Marrying different race leads to problems. People should stay with their own kind
More importantly God says we should not be unequally yoked.. Ie.. a believer with a non-believer.. different faiths..
But we live in a fallen sinful world that is lost and doomed to destroy it self so.. self gratification comes first..and most marry for financial reason loneliness, infatuation or simple cause it's been conditioned in their head grow up go to school get a job get married have kids get a mortgage then die.. Puppets on a string..
Smh
And sorry, but puppets on a string can be ANYTHING that people do if they believe in it. Just sayin'
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Just food for fodder. Look up what "Almah" is in Hebrew then look up "Parthenos" in Greek. IMO, this changes the whole theory.celticria46 wrote: »Marrying different race leads to problems. People should stay with their own kind
More importantly God says we should not be unequally yoked.. Ie.. a believer with a non-believer.. different faiths..
But we live in a fallen sinful world that is lost and doomed to destroy it self so.. self gratification comes first..and most marry for financial reason loneliness, infatuation or simple cause it's been conditioned in their head grow up go to school get a job get married have kids get a mortgage then die.. Puppets on a string..
Smh
Where did God said this?
You do know that God did not write the Bible right and as someone said to me - What pen did God use to write the Bible?
Now if you were to say to me that God or the Spiritual Being gave the men inspiration to write the Bible - then we will agree
You even have to see what Bible. Each Christian religion cherry picked what books to believe in and put them in their Bible, leaving out other books.
Then you have to look at the translation. Many passages from original Hebrew have been completely changed. In several passages, where you see the word God, Lord our other ways to name him, in the Hebrew version there is god+name... And many times it's different.
I've seen theological discussions and it really requires faith to believe the word recommendations they give lol.
But we better avoid this path, it usually leads to very heated discussions.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
4 -
I am debate free on purpose but "Marrying different race leads to problems. People should stay with their own kind" = that statement is nuttier than a Christmas fruitcake.
You don't know your bible. Moses was married to a Cushite woman, from Cush, a region south of Ethiopia. Research it. We're not supposed to discuss religion or politics but since you have already taken this to the razor's edge I am jumping into pool.
Jump on in because the water is fine. When you make it to the gates...guess what. All of the identifiers and tags, even the names of the churches that you belong to are being clipped off at the gate. None of it will exist there. Not one single name of any offshoot church is even named in the bible. There are 1000's of them that exist now.
Not one person or even a particular church is better than the next. Every tag. Every identifier. Every bias that creates nothing but chaos on this earth is being clipped off.
They only exist in your mind through your biases right now. It's a choice to continue living with that kind of social norm chaos in your head. You could throw all of it out with the bathwater and choose to start over today. I would.8 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »celticria46 wrote: »Marrying different race leads to problems. People should stay with their own kind
More importantly God says we should not be unequally yoked.. Ie.. a believer with a non-believer.. different faiths..
But we live in a fallen sinful world that is lost and doomed to destroy it self so.. self gratification comes first..and most marry for financial reason loneliness, infatuation or simple cause it's been conditioned in their head grow up go to school get a job get married have kids get a mortgage then die.. Puppets on a string..
Smh
What the actual heck... 😳😐 :noway:
I had a feeling this would come out eventually. Typically when one has these views, they fall back on religion to rationalize their beliefs. Funny thing is they rarely, if ever, have sources.2
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