Going Vegan
solomonjon245
Posts: 9 Member
Help I need some tips and recipes to try out. I am going from eating almost what ever to trying a Vegan diet for a week at first but may continue longer depending on the results I get after the week. Are there any good VEGAN resources out there??
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Replies
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Also how much protein should I consume daily to still get weight loss results? What are some good sources of protein beside tofu? I am slowly trying to add some of that to meals. I seem to be falling behind with the daily requirement for protein.1
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Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit, not from a particular type of diet. What results are you hoping to get from a plant based diet that you couldn't get from your normal way of eating?8
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I have seen one or two well know vegans on this site offer this website as a resource for getting proper nutrition:
https://www.veganhealth.org4 -
I'm not vegan, but I get a lot of plant based recipes from these sites...
https://thevegan8.com
https://www.badmanners.com
https://cookieandkate.com
https://ohsheglows.com
and on youtube I know there is a ton of info, but I enjoy watching https://www.youtube.com/c/RainbowPlantLife/featured
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dragon_girl26 wrote: »Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit, not from a particular type of diet. What results are you hoping to get from a plant based diet that you couldn't get from your normal way of eating?
This. ^^^
Plant based eating is not neither inherently healthier, nor inherently going to cause weight loss.
For people who start from a diet that includes woefully few plant foods (common), it's possible that the change will increase satiation, and help a person feel satisfied on fewer calories. They could've achieved the same result without eliminating animal protein, by significantly increasing veggies/fruits/whole grains. Ditto for health improvements, but that can be about changes in saturated fats or other nutrients, as well.
Before you decide I'm a shill for Big Meat: I've been vegetarian for nearly 47 years. I never encourage a person to stop eating animal foods unless they have an ethical reason to do so. Becoming a committed (consistent) vegan or even vegetarian is going to take slightly more attention to getting good nutrition, and be slightly less socially convenient, compared to being a nutrition-focused omnivore. It isn't a huge problem, it's very doable, but why make life harder, unless there's a sound reason?
I got fat then obese as a vegetarian, then thin again. There are overweight vegans. (Oreos are vegan, and there's plenty of vegan junk food.)
Veganism per se is not dietary magic for health, fitness or weight loss. It's a set of behavior limitations that are an ethical choice, and (by strict definition) includes not wearing leather, not using beeswax candles, and much, much more of that nature. (The diet-only version is more accurately called "fully plant-based eating" or "strict vegetarianism".)9 -
What results would you anticipate after a week? What do you think would generate those results?
The above-mentioned veganhealth.org is a great resource for nutritional information. I've gotten a lot of good recipes from Pinterest.
If you currently don't eat many fruits, vegetables, and legumes and you're switching to eating a lot more, you may notice some changes. That's not what veganism is though (although many vegans do eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, and legumes).
High protein foods from plants include tofu, but also tempeh, seitan, and legumes. There are also some newer products based on things like pea protein. Vegans will supplement the protein from these sources with the protein that's already in foods like grains and vegetables.2 -
I watched a movie on Netflix ?The game changers" about athletes switching to a Vegan lifestyle and how that improved their health, energy and some experienced weight loss. I know I wont see results instantly or even within a week but I wanted to start with a small amount of time to just try eating Vegan.
I am using the Vegan diet to simply try to increase my veggies and fruit intake with also trying to eliminate the extra calories that I eat with in my daily routine.1 -
solomonjon245 wrote: »I watched a movie on Netflix ?The game changers" about athletes switching to a Vegan lifestyle and how that improved their health, energy and some experienced weight loss. I know I wont see results instantly or even within a week but I wanted to start with a small amount of time to just try eating Vegan.
I am using the Vegan diet to simply try to increase my veggies and fruit intake with also trying to eliminate the extra calories that I eat with in my daily routine.
If you want the benefits associated with eating more vegetables and fruit while eliminating some of the higher calorie foods you're currently eating, I'd suggest you just do that directly.
Despite what a documentary on Netflix may have told you, that's not what veganism is (although vegans, like everyone else, are certainly free to do those things).5 -
solomonjon245 wrote: »I watched a movie on Netflix ?The game changers" about athletes switching to a Vegan lifestyle and how that improved their health, energy and some experienced weight loss. I know I wont see results instantly or even within a week but I wanted to start with a small amount of time to just try eating Vegan.
I am using the Vegan diet to simply try to increase my veggies and fruit intake with also trying to eliminate the extra calories that I eat with in my daily routine.
"Game Changers" is an advocacy piece, not an actual impartial, balanced documentary. Read (or watch) some of the critiques by exercise science folks or registered dietitians, before believing every word of "Game Changers". Here are a couple of examples:
https://dieteticallyspeaking.com/an-evidence-based-review-of-the-game-changers/
https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/
Google will show you lots more.
Frankly, I find things like "Game Changers" really irritating: That kind of bias and misrepresentation makes all of us vegetarians and vegans look like science-misinterpreting idiots. Plant based eating is absolutely compatible with athletic achievement. I've been athletically active myself, including competing, while vegetarian. But there is no valid, balanced evidence that it's superior.
Really, what are the odds that the best performance from the human body can be achieved by eating in a way that's different from the omnivorous conditions under which natural selection has influenced humans for centuries? There are lots of good reasons to reduce animal-food intake, or even to eliminate it entirely, but improved athletic performance doesn't loom large among them.
If veganism were scientifically proven to improve performance, every trainer and coach of elite athletes would be pushing it, because it's their job to stay up on the science, and bring forward anything that will (at an elite level) trigger even small percentages of improvement. I've seen the eating guidelines for national team athletes in my sport, and even known some of those athletes. "Be vegan" is not on the list. (Some elites are vegetarian or vegan, and that's fine; but it's not specifically advocated by the trainers/dietitians/coaches for improvement purposes.)
If you eat relatively minimal amounts of plant foods now, it will make sense to eat more plants. That can include some fully plant-based meals, but it can also include plant-forward meals with some meat as a protein source.
Either way, I'd encourage you to make a gradual transition. That's not only a practical approach (because you need to learn about new foods and how to combine them for good well-rounded nutrition), it will also be more . . . comfortable.
Someone who eats minimal plant foods, and goes straight to bunches of whole plant food all day every day, is likely to experience some form of digestive discomfort or distress. Your system is adapted to your current diet. Your gut microbiome is adapted to your current diet. If you suddenly eat very different foods, and muchMuch more fiber, it's very likely that you'll experience gassiness, possibly constipation, possibly diarrhea, etc. Gradual changes, really.7 -
solomonjon245 wrote: »I watched a movie on Netflix ?The game changers" about athletes switching to a Vegan lifestyle and how that improved their health, energy and some experienced weight loss. I know I wont see results instantly or even within a week but I wanted to start with a small amount of time to just try eating Vegan.
I am using the Vegan diet to simply try to increase my veggies and fruit intake with also trying to eliminate the extra calories that I eat with in my daily routine.
"Game Changers" is an advocacy piece, not an actual impartial, balanced documentary. Read (or watch) some of the critiques by exercise science folks or registered dietitians, before believing every word of "Game Changers". Here are a couple of examples:
https://dieteticallyspeaking.com/an-evidence-based-review-of-the-game-changers/
https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/
Google will show you lots more.
Frankly, I find things like "Game Changers" really irritating: That kind of bias and misrepresentation makes all of us vegetarians and vegans look like science-misinterpreting idiots. Plant based eating is absolutely compatible with athletic achievement. I've been athletically active myself, including competing, while vegetarian. But there is no valid, balanced evidence that it's superior.
Really, what are the odds that the best performance from the human body can be achieved by eating in a way that's different from the omnivorous conditions under which natural selection has influenced humans for centuries? There are lots of good reasons to reduce animal-food intake, or even to eliminate it entirely, but improved athletic performance doesn't loom large among them.
If veganism were scientifically proven to improve performance, every trainer and coach of elite athletes would be pushing it, because it's their job to stay up on the science, and bring forward anything that will (at an elite level) trigger even small percentages of improvement. I've seen the eating guidelines for national team athletes in my sport, and even known some of those athletes. "Be vegan" is not on the list. (Some elites are vegetarian or vegan, and that's fine; but it's not specifically advocated by the trainers/dietitians/coaches for improvement purposes.)
If you eat relatively minimal amounts of plant foods now, it will make sense to eat more plants. That can include some fully plant-based meals, but it can also include plant-forward meals with some meat as a protein source.
Either way, I'd encourage you to make a gradual transition. That's not only a practical approach (because you need to learn about new foods and how to combine them for good well-rounded nutrition), it will also be more . . . comfortable.
Someone who eats minimal plant foods, and goes straight to bunches of whole plant food all day every day, is likely to experience some form of digestive discomfort or distress. Your system is adapted to your current diet. Your gut microbiome is adapted to your current diet. If you suddenly eat very different foods, and muchMuch more fiber, it's very likely that you'll experience gassiness, possibly constipation, possibly diarrhea, etc. Gradual changes, really.
Yes, it's beyond frustrating to have veganism associated with this type of manipulative and misleading advocacy.
OP, the above about potential digestive distress is real. Since some non-vegans don't consume as much fiber/plants as some vegans, it is a relatively common experience for some newer vegans to experience bloating, flatulence, or discomfort as a result of the switch. This doesn't mean your body can't digest more fiber or plants, it's just a sign that you'll want to increase your fiber intake more gradually.3 -
solomonjon245 wrote: »I watched a movie on Netflix ?The game changers" about athletes switching to a Vegan lifestyle and how that improved their health, energy and some experienced weight loss. I know I wont see results instantly or even within a week but I wanted to start with a small amount of time to just try eating Vegan.
I am using the Vegan diet to simply try to increase my veggies and fruit intake with also trying to eliminate the extra calories that I eat with in my daily routine.
To be fair, you read about any lifestyle and they will talk about the endless energy, more clear skin, health improvements, etc... I have seen all of this from vegan to carnivore. In general, of you go from a poor diet to a healthy one, all of those things will come. There is also a placebo effect that will occur when you dedicated yourself to an eating style.
Overall, eating more plants is a good way to improve health, but do are lean meats and fish like a Mediterranean style diet.
In the end, pick a diet that aligns to your lifestyle and it will increase your chance of long term success.
So maybe instead of jumping to vegan because your watched a documentary, why not start adding plant based meals more often and slowly reduce meat consumption. This will likely improve adherence.5 -
Veganism should ONLY be done for ethical reasons. There is literally no other reason to eat that way. Weight loss is about calories and even from a health perspective, veganism actually makes it harder to get protein into your diet. Many vegans are actually not healthy and my vegan friend has gained weight over the years since she went vegan. As I said... if you are doing it for ethical reasons then go ahead but if it's too be healthier or lose weight then no.5
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For protein, I eat a lot of hummus, beans and lentils. I like to eat beans and lentils oover julienned cabbage instead of rice or noodles, but I also love to mash them and make salad dressing out of them. Mashed red beans and bit of flavored basalmic vinegar makes a great protein-boist dressing; or leftover curried lentils, a bit of mango chutney and a some lime juice1
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solomonjon245 wrote: »I watched a movie on Netflix ?The game changers" about athletes switching to a Vegan lifestyle and how that improved their health, energy and some experienced weight loss. I know I wont see results instantly or even within a week but I wanted to start with a small amount of time to just try eating Vegan.
I am using the Vegan diet to simply try to increase my veggies and fruit intake with also trying to eliminate the extra calories that I eat with in my daily routine.
What Ann and Jane said.
To add to this, even if you want to become a 100% plant-based eater (the health claims are really about WFPB diets, not veganism, which can be WFPB, but is simply an ethical position that goes beyond food choices, and can be a healthy or not healthy way to eat depending on how the person chooses to eat, as with non vegan diets), you will likely be more successful if you make the changes more gradual and sustainable.
I personally believe that the benefits of the WFPB diet is not excluding meat, eggs, and dairy (although that can be an admirable ethical choice, and I respect those who see it as ethically necessary), but the fact that one eats a lot of nutrient-dense whole foods, especially vegetables, lots of fiber, some healthy sources of fat, and the diet is much more balanced than one overloaded with added sugar and added fat, as many US diets are.
But what I would recommend as a start is take stock of what you are eating now and of ways to reduce cals easily and add more vegetables and fruit and other missing nutrients, perhaps.
If you aren't used to meals based around vegetarian sources of protein, I'd practice with that too. If you post some current typical breakfast/lunch/dinners or snacks (if you have them and want to continue), we could probably suggest some ways to make them more nutrient dense and reduce the animal products in your overall day.
If your dinners tend to be based around meat, explore other options.
There are tons of vegan websites with good recipes, and even reputable youtubers (a lot of vegan youtube channels are questionable in the advice given, but not all). I enjoy watching people cook on youtube (I get inspiration), and some good vegan ones are Pick Up Limes, Cheap Lazy Vegan, avantgardevegan, and the Happy Pear. There are also tons of great vegan cookbooks which one can try out by getting them from a library, and Matt Frazier at Nomeatathlete has a bunch of beginning resources and even a "going plant-based gradually" plan, I believe.
But that aside, I do want to stress that it's simply not true that one can only be healthy or energetic with a WFPB way of eating (as suggested by The Game Changers) or that it will magically cause amazing health effects to cut out meat.
Eating a better and more plant-based diet is a great choice, IMO, however.3 -
solomonjon245 wrote: »Help I need some tips and recipes to try out. I am going from eating almost what ever to trying a Vegan diet for a week at first but may continue longer depending on the results I get after the week. Are there any good VEGAN resources out there??
My best friend went vegetarian for medical reasons. Since she was a kid she wasn’t able to digest red meat, then in her late teens/early twenties she started having problems with poultry.
She did lose weight, but she also did IF at the same time so I’m not sure which was the biggest factor.
I know frozen meals have a bad reputation on here but Amy’s has some good tasting options. Especially if you want to start going vegan or vegetarian one or two days a week to build up. She prefers the Garden brand over Morning Star. And I think it’s Birdseye has the cauliflower buffalo wings, so yummy.
I tried it for 2 months, just to support her, but not only was I not getting the protein I needed, I also wasn’t getting enough iron. It just wasn’t something I was able to keep up, and not something I wanted to. I do still eat several vegetarian meals.
May not be the advise you were looking for, but I figured a little support wouldn’t hurt considering how aggressive some people get on this topic.0 -
nomeatathlete.com
veganliftz.com
greatveganathletes.com
There are many more if you're gearing it toward wondering how vegan athletes do it. I'm not vegan, but I know some world class athletes that are. I also know some that eat tons of meat.
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I like minimalist baker (blog) and rainbow plant life (youtube and blog). I eat mostly plant based. I eat lots of beans and grains like rice, quinoa and farro. Obviously lots of veg. I tend to just throw *kitten* together and call it a salad which I eat every day for lunch because I'm boring (my husband makes fun of me for it.) but salads are a good and easy way to throw whatever you like in there to make it a filling and balanced meal. I just make sure to add a grain and protein. Lots of meals you can make vegan... stir fry, fried rice, lots of soups, chili, tacos/nachos/quesadillas, curries...1
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Heyy!
I'm not a vegan although would like to be some day. Like you, I've seen vegan/plant-based documentaries and read books and think it's a great way to live and without being an expert, I've read a number of papers in which a balanced vegan diet seems to be healthier in the long term. As such I wish you all the best with your journey! There's no harm in trying!
If you are on Reddit /r/veganrecipes and /veganfoodporn have provided me with countless amazing recipes. I don't follow a specific blog per se though.
My current go-to is bean tacos with chickpea guacamole - literally just cooked black beans (w/ salt, cumin, turmeric or whatever spices you like) in a heated and folded tortilla and vegan cheese. For the guacamole I just mix an avocado with a few chickpeas and season it with salt and lime.
I also like to cook a lot of Chinese food in which I substitute the meat either for tofu or mushrooms, there is vegan soy sauce/oyster sauce out there if that helps too!0 -
I wouldn't go straight to vegan. I would start taking out some proteins like beef, pork, poultry. Keep healthier proteins like Fish in your diet. Then eventually work your way to Vegetarian, then Vegan. But take my advice with a grain of salt. I am a huge carnivore. There's proteins out there i would eat if they were legal...1
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nytrifisoul wrote: »I wouldn't go straight to vegan. I would start taking out some proteins like beef, pork, poultry. Keep healthier proteins like Fish in your diet. Then eventually work your way to Vegetarian, then Vegan. But take my advice with a grain of salt. I am a huge carnivore. There's proteins out there i would eat if they were legal...
There's really no evidence that there's a benefit to "tapering off" meat consumption and then eventually eliminating the rest of the animal products in your diet.
That isn't to say that it might not be the best approach logistically or emotionally for some individuals -- people tend to vary in how they like to make lifestyle changes or form new habits. But from a nutritional or health point of view, I'm not aware of any evidence showing that there are better health outcomes associated with a gradual transition.
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janejellyroll wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I wouldn't go straight to vegan. I would start taking out some proteins like beef, pork, poultry. Keep healthier proteins like Fish in your diet. Then eventually work your way to Vegetarian, then Vegan. But take my advice with a grain of salt. I am a huge carnivore. There's proteins out there i would eat if they were legal...
There's really no evidence that there's a benefit to "tapering off" meat consumption and then eventually eliminating the rest of the animal products in your diet.
That isn't to say that it might not be the best approach logistically or emotionally for some individuals -- people tend to vary in how they like to make lifestyle changes or form new habits. But from a nutritional or health point of view, I'm not aware of any evidence showing that there are better health outcomes associated with a gradual transition.
I'm assuming it has more to do with the gastro effects of such a drastic diet change, as Ann described above.0 -
dragon_girl26 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I wouldn't go straight to vegan. I would start taking out some proteins like beef, pork, poultry. Keep healthier proteins like Fish in your diet. Then eventually work your way to Vegetarian, then Vegan. But take my advice with a grain of salt. I am a huge carnivore. There's proteins out there i would eat if they were legal...
There's really no evidence that there's a benefit to "tapering off" meat consumption and then eventually eliminating the rest of the animal products in your diet.
That isn't to say that it might not be the best approach logistically or emotionally for some individuals -- people tend to vary in how they like to make lifestyle changes or form new habits. But from a nutritional or health point of view, I'm not aware of any evidence showing that there are better health outcomes associated with a gradual transition.
I'm assuming it has more to do with the gastro effects of such a drastic diet change, as Ann described above.
That can usually be dealt with by reducing fiber. There are no gastric issues, that I'm aware of, that are alleviated specifically by reducing all meat but fish and then going vegetarian and then going vegan. Animal products aren't PREVENTING gastric issues -- people who increase their fiber intake quickly on a diet that includes animal products often report the exact same set of symptoms. You can go vegan overnight and make choices to keep your fiber intake similar to what it was before so you can gradually step it up (if that's the goal).2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »dragon_girl26 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I wouldn't go straight to vegan. I would start taking out some proteins like beef, pork, poultry. Keep healthier proteins like Fish in your diet. Then eventually work your way to Vegetarian, then Vegan. But take my advice with a grain of salt. I am a huge carnivore. There's proteins out there i would eat if they were legal...
There's really no evidence that there's a benefit to "tapering off" meat consumption and then eventually eliminating the rest of the animal products in your diet.
That isn't to say that it might not be the best approach logistically or emotionally for some individuals -- people tend to vary in how they like to make lifestyle changes or form new habits. But from a nutritional or health point of view, I'm not aware of any evidence showing that there are better health outcomes associated with a gradual transition.
I'm assuming it has more to do with the gastro effects of such a drastic diet change, as Ann described above.
That can usually be dealt with by reducing fiber. There are no gastric issues, that I'm aware of, that are alleviated specifically by reducing all meat but fish and then going vegetarian and then going vegan. Animal products aren't PREVENTING gastric issues -- people who increase their fiber intake quickly on a diet that includes animal products often report the exact same set of symptoms. You can go vegan overnight and make choices to keep your fiber intake similar to what it was before so you can gradually step it up (if that's the goal).
IMU, there is believed to be a certain amount of microbiome adaptation involved in major dietary changes. I don't have a cite, but there was a tiny study, for example, that looked at microbiome adaptation in a crossover (vegetarians who were willing to switch to omnivory, and vice-versa). It's been a while, but I think that there was adaptation in both directions, although IIRC one of the surprises was that it was more rapid than the researchers had anticipated it might be, on the order of a couple of weeks.
As a practical thing, since most omnivores eat some plant foods, I suspect there might be more digestive distress in the vegetarian-to-omnivore conversion, vs. in the other direction, but I have zero evidence to support that, other than the experience that if I accidentally eat something with meat broth in it, I've sometimes realized that via digestive distress after the fact, unknowing at the time of eating.
Would it be better to switch gradually from omnivore to fully plant-based? It would be interesting to see research about whether there's something in efficiency of amino acid metabolization, for example, but I doubt it's a profound worry, as a practical thing.
For sure, the "eat lots more fiber" thing seems - anecdotally, based on threads here - to be a problem for a fair percentage of people, comfort-wise. But that's unrelated to the meat-or-not issue.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »dragon_girl26 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I wouldn't go straight to vegan. I would start taking out some proteins like beef, pork, poultry. Keep healthier proteins like Fish in your diet. Then eventually work your way to Vegetarian, then Vegan. But take my advice with a grain of salt. I am a huge carnivore. There's proteins out there i would eat if they were legal...
There's really no evidence that there's a benefit to "tapering off" meat consumption and then eventually eliminating the rest of the animal products in your diet.
That isn't to say that it might not be the best approach logistically or emotionally for some individuals -- people tend to vary in how they like to make lifestyle changes or form new habits. But from a nutritional or health point of view, I'm not aware of any evidence showing that there are better health outcomes associated with a gradual transition.
I'm assuming it has more to do with the gastro effects of such a drastic diet change, as Ann described above.
That can usually be dealt with by reducing fiber. There are no gastric issues, that I'm aware of, that are alleviated specifically by reducing all meat but fish and then going vegetarian and then going vegan. Animal products aren't PREVENTING gastric issues -- people who increase their fiber intake quickly on a diet that includes animal products often report the exact same set of symptoms. You can go vegan overnight and make choices to keep your fiber intake similar to what it was before so you can gradually step it up (if that's the goal).
IMU, there is believed to be a certain amount of microbiome adaptation involved in major dietary changes. I don't have a cite, but there was a tiny study, for example, that looked at microbiome adaptation in a crossover (vegetarians who were willing to switch to omnivory, and vice-versa). It's been a while, but I think that there was adaptation in both directions, although IIRC one of the surprises was that it was more rapid than the researchers had anticipated it might be, on the order of a couple of weeks.
As a practical thing, since most omnivores eat some plant foods, I suspect there might be more digestive distress in the vegetarian-to-omnivore conversion, vs. in the other direction, but I have zero evidence to support that, other than the experience that if I accidentally eat something with meat broth in it, I've sometimes realized that via digestive distress after the fact, unknowing at the time of eating.
Would it be better to switch gradually from omnivore to fully plant-based? It would be interesting to see research about whether there's something in efficiency of amino acid metabolization, for example, but I doubt it's a profound worry, as a practical thing.
For sure, the "eat lots more fiber" thing seems - anecdotally, based on threads here - to be a problem for a fair percentage of people, comfort-wise. But that's unrelated to the meat-or-not issue.
I do wish there were some good studies on this. Anecdotally, I've been helping out newer vegans for a while and I've never encountered reports of issues from someone who eliminated animal products quickly but kept their fiber level relatively stable. Most gastric issues that I've heard of were clearly related to fiber, not just an issue with no longer having animal products in the diet. Of course, that doesn't mean it isn't happening.
What you report about longer-term vegans/vegetarians feeling ill when they accidentally consume something with meat or dairy, that is also something I've heard of. I have accidentally consumed meat stock or cheese a few times over the years and fortunately it has never been an issue for me, but I've heard it from enough other people that I know it can happen. Of course, you've been vegetarian much longer than I've been vegan. I shouldn't assume it would never happen to me.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »dragon_girl26 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I wouldn't go straight to vegan. I would start taking out some proteins like beef, pork, poultry. Keep healthier proteins like Fish in your diet. Then eventually work your way to Vegetarian, then Vegan. But take my advice with a grain of salt. I am a huge carnivore. There's proteins out there i would eat if they were legal...
There's really no evidence that there's a benefit to "tapering off" meat consumption and then eventually eliminating the rest of the animal products in your diet.
That isn't to say that it might not be the best approach logistically or emotionally for some individuals -- people tend to vary in how they like to make lifestyle changes or form new habits. But from a nutritional or health point of view, I'm not aware of any evidence showing that there are better health outcomes associated with a gradual transition.
I'm assuming it has more to do with the gastro effects of such a drastic diet change, as Ann described above.
That can usually be dealt with by reducing fiber. There are no gastric issues, that I'm aware of, that are alleviated specifically by reducing all meat but fish and then going vegetarian and then going vegan. Animal products aren't PREVENTING gastric issues -- people who increase their fiber intake quickly on a diet that includes animal products often report the exact same set of symptoms. You can go vegan overnight and make choices to keep your fiber intake similar to what it was before so you can gradually step it up (if that's the goal).
IMU, there is believed to be a certain amount of microbiome adaptation involved in major dietary changes. I don't have a cite, but there was a tiny study, for example, that looked at microbiome adaptation in a crossover (vegetarians who were willing to switch to omnivory, and vice-versa). It's been a while, but I think that there was adaptation in both directions, although IIRC one of the surprises was that it was more rapid than the researchers had anticipated it might be, on the order of a couple of weeks.
As a practical thing, since most omnivores eat some plant foods, I suspect there might be more digestive distress in the vegetarian-to-omnivore conversion, vs. in the other direction, but I have zero evidence to support that, other than the experience that if I accidentally eat something with meat broth in it, I've sometimes realized that via digestive distress after the fact, unknowing at the time of eating.
Would it be better to switch gradually from omnivore to fully plant-based? It would be interesting to see research about whether there's something in efficiency of amino acid metabolization, for example, but I doubt it's a profound worry, as a practical thing.
For sure, the "eat lots more fiber" thing seems - anecdotally, based on threads here - to be a problem for a fair percentage of people, comfort-wise. But that's unrelated to the meat-or-not issue.
I do wish there were some good studies on this. Anecdotally, I've been helping out newer vegans for a while and I've never encountered reports of issues from someone who eliminated animal products quickly but kept their fiber level relatively stable. Most gastric issues that I've heard of were clearly related to fiber, not just an issue with no longer having animal products in the diet. Of course, that doesn't mean it isn't happening.
What you report about longer-term vegans/vegetarians feeling ill when they accidentally consume something with meat or dairy, that is also something I've heard of. I have accidentally consumed meat stock or cheese a few times over the years and fortunately it has never been an issue for me, but I've heard it from enough other people that I know it can happen. Of course, you've been vegetarian much longer than I've been vegan. I shouldn't assume it would never happen to me.
I suspect the reaction to unaccustomed foods, generally, is somewhat individualized. I rarely have stomach issues with foods, but sometimes lower digestive tract (just in general, not meat-specific) so may be a little more sensitive than average in that regard. It's never been a huge problem for me, more at the "hmmm, weird symptoms, wonder if there was broth in that casserole?" kind of thing. If I were to go back to eating meat, I'd phase it in gradually, just in case.
Like I said, I wouldn't expect the omni to vegan switch to have much in the way of digestive/intestinal consequences for most people, or any physiological issues really, apart from the fiber question, at otherwise fairly similar nutritional intake. Seems like common sense that the more radical the change, the more likely to be consequences (somewhat individualized), but most omnivores do eat plant foods, so probably NBD in adaptation terms.0 -
On the overall "is meat unhealthful" subject, this is an interesting overview of a relevant study, from someone with strong credentials in nutritional science:
https://youtu.be/g-upzvuwAng 0 -
On the overall "is meat unhealthful" subject, this is an interesting overview of a relevant study, from someone with strong credentials in nutritional science:https://youtu.be/g-upzvuwAng
That was interesting, and answered my long wondered questions about if it was red meat itself that increases cancer risk, or the absence of fruit and vegetables, as well as the importance of type of red meat, i.e., hot dogs vs rib eye.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »On the overall "is meat unhealthful" subject, this is an interesting overview of a relevant study, from someone with strong credentials in nutritional science:https://youtu.be/g-upzvuwAng
That was interesting, and answered my long wondered questions about if it was red meat itself that increases cancer risk, or the absence of fruit and vegetables, as well as the importance of type of red meat, i.e., hot dogs vs rib eye.
Thank Psulemon (who I didn't tag because I'm betting he has enough to take up his time). He posted it on another thread.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »On the overall "is meat unhealthful" subject, this is an interesting overview of a relevant study, from someone with strong credentials in nutritional science:https://youtu.be/g-upzvuwAng
That was interesting, and answered my long wondered questions about if it was red meat itself that increases cancer risk, or the absence of fruit and vegetables, as well as the importance of type of red meat, i.e., hot dogs vs rib eye.
Thank Psulemon (who I didn't tag because I'm betting he has enough to take up his time). He posted it on another thread.
You are welcome.1 -
Beans and lentils are great sources of protein. I wouldn't get too wrapped up in hitting a certain protein number unless your doctor/dietician is concerned or you feel weak or hungry.
Some good YouTubers to follow are Caitlin Shoemaker (From My Bowl), High Carb Hannah, Unnatural Vegan (she has a few what I eat in a days and she aims for high protein), Cheap Lazy Vegan, Sweet Simple Vegan, Sweet Potato Soul, Krocks in the Kitchen, and Plant Pure Kitchen (run by the son and daughter in law of one of the doctors who did the China study).
Also, it's very important to supplement Vitamin D and Vitamin B12.0
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