Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
COVID19 - To Vaccinate or To Not Vaccinate
Replies
-
Got my 2nd dose day before yesterday! Yippee!8
-
Fully vaccinate whit Pfizer, and the same with my husband. At 77 and 81 respectively, we are not fooling around with the virus.16
-
My OH is getting his first dose tomorrow. He has two comorbidities. I don't, plus I'm with the VA, so waiting for them, and resisting the urge to lie about comorbidities.
My mom is getting her second dose 3/16.8 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I don't know whether people sincerely believe this stuff, in which case our education system is failing is profoundly as a society, or if people are trolling for fun and profit. I kind of hope it's #2 because we really need most people to have a basic understanding of reality.
I have an anti-vaxxer in my family. She really believes it. Oh, and she used to work as an RN (some time ago) so she had that education as well.
She's actually not speaking to me at the moment. I'm wondering how long that will last.14 -
Here how i see things - issues are almost the same all over the world
-In Romania vaccine is for free, funded by gov, you have to wait still for yr turn
as before there are the health care personel, then the old people and then
the teachers and persons who qualify
- there are the 3 one pfizer, modena and artezeneca
artezeneca they say it is not after 60, they alternate these ones. Not enough but step by step seems to work
Of course there are also a small number of negative reactions which press magnify them
sometimes, but I think even for other non covid vaccine can be like that
I mean what ?u don't expect maybe a possible allergy, some fever maybe or some red skin or so?
these are normal one effects
- I will do this = vaccine me - for selfish reasons first for the ones around me, because if it is only
my body I can decide and do whatever I want, but if I damage the life of my dear ones, family, friends , colleagues, I will feel guilty all my life and I do not want this for myself
I mean i have my mum with comorbidities, my brother in law with cancer, my husband had in the past tuberculosis
What shall I do, exposing them cause it is me the most important on Earth? To do what? To live alone and search
for their memories?
Then I want to do it for another selfish reason, because there are rumors that ok, of course u can not do it
it is yr choice, but if all yr colleagues have done that , u will be in the future told to stay home and not come to the
office cause you are exposing all of them
-I regret of course that it is not a single dose like j and j for all ones
I also regret that after ,i still need to wear this damn mask, is there not any anti mask vaccine? - haha
and also regret that the effect is only some months
IMO we will have to repeat various vaccines till getting to one that works like for an year or more
is this how i see at least for 2021 who knows about 2022
- Saying all these I will do it, when I will be on the list, although we have also
here people who don't believe in vaccine not per se, but they think the human rights to choose
to do it or not ,are violated, a lot of people who still think that Lord and not vaccine will help them
Well we are at 5000 cases per day and we will get soon to 10000/day
We have all the stems possible and impossible
Also a lot of people not believing it is covid, covid is just a simple flu for them
It is sad there are people thinking like this who went to school and universities and learnt science
and they can compare things and have knowledge
But I think school seems does not teach u to think too much in these cases
You have to feel the death of one dear to u to start believing the covid effects and also to have a vaccine to help?
That's what i had to say, it is sad how the world goes, maybe we should really explore life on other planets
13 -
Analog_Kid wrote: »Throughout the pandemic, the US COVID mortality rate has steadily hovered around 0.017%
Since deploying the vaccine, the average mortality rate hasn't changed.
With or without the vaccine, COVID has a 99.98% survival rate.
Those aren't bad odds.
As of this date (3/13/2021), COVID-19 has killed 531k people in the US. Even if every single person had been infected already (and we are no where close) that is 0.161% of the population that has died from COVID-19, nearly 10X higher than the mortality rate you are claiming.
Reliable sources put the overall mortality rate at between 0.5% and 1%. It is 1.7-1.8% based on positive tests results versus deaths, but there are more cases than positive tests.11 -
kshama2001 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I don't know whether people sincerely believe this stuff, in which case our education system is failing is profoundly as a society, or if people are trolling for fun and profit. I kind of hope it's #2 because we really need most people to have a basic understanding of reality.
I have an anti-vaxxer in my family. She really believes it. Oh, and she used to work as an RN (some time ago) so she had that education as well.
She's actually not speaking to me at the moment. I'm wondering how long that will last.
I know a woman who is an anti-vaxxer* as well. She used to be an LVN. She would not wear masks in public either even during the height of the Covid surge in California. She is a nice person otherwise.
I have a few acquaintances on Facebook who were spreading anti vaccine propaganda recently and the information they were putting out was so ridiculous and false. One girl was even saying that hospital staff were purposely letting certain races die. This made me so mad because it is a complete lie. So ignorant and annoying.
13 -
I also forgot to mention that today we will have new restrictions, another model for the declaration, hours of restrictions between 22-5 , but today, while they were doing the new model ,it was sunny, there are 16 degrees celsius so people exit in the parks, no mask, no social distance
This leads of course to be frustrated by the ones who respect everything, but not only
I think the main feeling people have is they are tired , tired to hear only bad news watching tv or reading the press, tired to respect everything, tired to see their kids without freedom, tired because the places in ATI have finished and so on
They are dissapointed, sad and tired. But in the middle of all this , we need to hope and live and go on
5 -
I will vaccinate, but living in a relatively save place in the world (NZ) I am in no hurry. Let's get border workers vaccinated, their families, people with higher risks than me who is simply overweight (not obese) and getting thinner.
Honestly, if it was up to me the vaccines we bought should instead have gone to hotspots where people truly need them. I feel like we can wait. But as we get them anyway? Sure, I will get vaccinated in due time.6 -
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/03/14/facebook-vaccine-hesistancy-qanon/
Facebook is conducting a vast behind-the-scenes study of doubts expressed by U.S. users about vaccines, a major project that attempts to probe and teach software to identify the medical attitudes of millions of Americans, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post.
The research is a large-scale attempt to understand the spread of ideas that contribute to vaccine hesitancy, or the act of delaying or refusing a vaccination despite its availability, on social media — a primary source of health information for millions of people. It shows how the company is probing ever more nuanced realms of speech, and illustrates how weighing free speech vs. potential for harm is more tenuous than ever for technology companies during a public health crisis.
...The research effort also discovered early evidence of significant overlap between communities that are skeptical of vaccines and those affiliated with QAnon, a sprawling set of baseless claims that has radicalized its followers and been associated with violent crimes, according to the documents.
...Coronavirus-related misinformation has flooded the company’s platforms, including false narratives about covid-19 being less deadly than the flu, that it is somehow associated with a population-control plot by philanthropist Bill Gates and that vaccines are associated with the antichrist. Its content decisions, potentially anticompetitive behavior and its use by extremist groups to foment violence have drawn the attention of regulators, leading to congressional hearings and major antitrust charges by the Justice Department.
...Facebook has also banned a wide range of baseless or misleading claims about vaccines and covid — removing more than 12 million pieces of content — and connects people to authoritative information with labels on posts and with a banner atop the Facebook site, according to the company.
Facebook’s research into vaccine hesitancy will force the company to walk a fine line if it decides to further police it, since much of the content regards expressions of concern and doubt vs. outright misinformation.6 -
Had my first dose of AZ on Sunday. I have a slightly sore red mark on my arm and late last night I felt a little unwell, a headache and a bit blugh, so I took paracetamol and went to bed.
Today I am as right as rain and have just come back from a 3 mile walk with a bag of heavy shopping.
And my level of relief at having been vaccinated is off the scale.11 -
I had my second Pfizer vaccine yesterday. (I'm in the U.S.) It's been 24 hours and I have had no side effects other than the injection site tenderness, not enough to notice unless I poke at it.
I am beyond relieved as well. So grateful to the entire world of scientists and health workers who pulled together on this whole thing to make this vaccine available. It makes me kind of teary to realize there are so many who are working for the GOOD.
Very grateful this morning.14 -
Here is my take. My brother and a friend, both triathletes, both in fantastic physical condition caught the virus. The friend caught it in late February or early March. He went to the doctor, negative for flu, so the doctor sent him home to rest and recuperate. Healthy so they thought he would be okay. He had Covid-19 and lived alone. When he no longer responded to texts and calls from friends and coworkers, one of them came over to check on him. He passed away in his bed. My brother also caught it in March. He described the experience as the worst illness he had ever encountered. 3 weeks of misery where at times he struggled to breath (he had a pulse oximeter and was able to check his O2 levels and would have gone to the hospital if things got bad. He said it was over 2 months after he recovered that he began to feel more like himself. An acquaintance lost her father and a sister to Covid-19 after less than a week in the hospital. The sister had a twin who woke up after 6 weeks on a ventilator to learn of their deaths and then had to spend months in rehab. Another acquaintance lost her sister 3 days before she was supposed to be vaccinated. All of these people were over 50 years old, as am I. I will take the vaccine as soon as I can get an appointment. My husband and sons are also planning to be vaccinated. If you are young and lower risk, I can understand why someone might choose to wait. For those of us who are older, we don't have that luxury.25
-
As soon as my number is up I am getting vaccinated, to protect myself and others...15
-
My dh & I are fully vaccinated, having received 2nd doses over 2 weeks ago. Our dd (teacher) received her 2nd dose last Thursday. Our other dd will get 2nd dose next week. Will be glad when sil can get it. I am glad we are vaccinated.7
-
In case you need more reasons to get the vaccine.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2021/03/15/uk-coronavirus-variant-significantly-more-deadly-says-new-study/?sh=620128a46a1e
"In conclusion, this meta‐analysis of eight studies with more than 3700 patients shows a pooled proportion of 14.4% for newly diagnosed diabetes in hospitalized COVID‐19 patients."
https://dom-pubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/dom.142692 -
My second vaccine is scheduled for 7th April! So happy! Near end of this chuffin’ isolation! Blessed3
-
In case you need more reasons to get the vaccine.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2021/03/15/uk-coronavirus-variant-significantly-more-deadly-says-new-study/?sh=620128a46a1e
"In conclusion, this meta‐analysis of eight studies with more than 3700 patients shows a pooled proportion of 14.4% for newly diagnosed diabetes in hospitalized COVID‐19 patients."
https://dom-pubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/dom.14269
An acquaintance (53 male) who was healthy 3 months ago pre-covid now uses a walker, is on oxygen and has to take insulin shots.
I will be getting vaccinated.15 -
pfeiferlindsey wrote: »hobbitses333 wrote: »Poison will not heal. Over 99% recovery rate world wide. If you die after getting the vaccine your life insurance is null too because its experimental. Give your insurer a call first.
The constantly quoted 99% recovery rate as an argument against lockdowns, masks and vaccines drive me nuts. As if the end point of survival is the only metric to be used. Do people see that the hospitalization rate is much, much higher than that, and that our health care systems are overwhelmed? Did they not see what happened in Europe and New York City in the first wave? People who end up in the hospital with severe Covid sometimes have to stay in ICU for weeks. People are dying from cancer and other illnesses because they can't get treatment when the hospitals are full. All these "I'll take my chances with a 1% death rate" people literally drive me insane.
All of that aside (and don't worry, I completely agree with you), people also fail to see that 1% of 328.2 million people is over 3 million dead. That would be devastating to our country and our economy. We don't want it to run rampant.
Yep! I have a coworker who just lost her father to Covid the other day. Most young and healthy people will be fine but what about older or sicker people? The death rate is much higher for people over 60, 70, and 80. I’m sure most people have a parent or grandparent they care about.
Not only that, when our hospitals were impacted a few months ago a lot of other people had their other care delayed like elective surgeries and things.
People need to stop being so selfish and think about people besides themselves.
First, another congratulations to you! Second, Atul Gawande was interviewed by Preet Bharara and drew this comparison. 2 revolutionary surgical discoveries happened same time. One was good for surgeons and adopted instantaneously. One was good for patients and took a whole generation to become commonplace. People don’t do what’s good for others.
Interview: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/stay-tuned-with-preet/id1265845136?i=1000512523253
Discoveries: ether & antiseptic4 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »Analog_Kid wrote: »Throughout the pandemic, the US COVID mortality rate has steadily hovered around 0.017%
Since deploying the vaccine, the average mortality rate hasn't changed.
With or without the vaccine, COVID has a 99.98% survival rate.
Those aren't bad odds.
As of this date (3/13/2021), COVID-19 has killed 531k people in the US. Even if every single person had been infected already (and we are no where close) that is 0.161% of the population that has died from COVID-19, nearly 10X higher than the mortality rate you are claiming.
Reliable sources put the overall mortality rate at between 0.5% and 1%. It is 1.7-1.8% based on positive tests results versus deaths, but there are more cases than positive tests.
I'm getting the vax when reasonable (I'm in a low risk group), but there is a valid counterpoint to the mortality rate argument and that the fact that the rate doesn't apply equally across the population. Depending on age and other comorbidities, a person's likelihood of death could be far greater or far less.1 -
Death is far from the only bad thing covid can do to you. How's your medical insurance, do you know what a hospital stay costs especially if you find yourself in an ICU?7
-
Dude, sodium chloride is TABLE SALT. You probably shouldn’t spoon feed it to your baby but it is not poison, and calling it by its chemical name because it sounds scarier doesn’t make it scary.hobbitses333 wrote: »@hobbitses333 please provide link to the official ingredient list of any of the covid-19 vaccines then, and we'll discuss.
Vaccines are hardly experimental concoctions (at least not any more than other medicines).
List of metals/chemical elements in the multivitamin I take currently (might not meet chemical classification of heavy metal, I'm no chemist): magnesium, iron, iodine, copper, manganese, chromium, selenium and zinc. All healthy and necessary. Can't really compare these to the ingredient list of a vaccine without seeing it, though. These are all recommended by my public healthcare provider who doesn't get a dime from the vitamins I buy, and who very much has an interest in keeping me and my unborn child healthy so my child will one day become a tax-paying citizen who can do their part to keep the society and economy running.
I am not here to do the research for you just to point out that you may need to do some. The ingredient list for vaccine is available at your fingertips if you want it, try the CDC website though it is rife with proapganda, and when looking up the definitions of the ingredients I suggest you use duck duck go..I can assure you it is much different than your multivitamin.
Vitamins are also not vaccines with ingredients such as Potassium chloride, Sodium chloride, Monobasic potassium phosphate, Dibasic sodium phosphate dehydrate etc, aluminum Though you may want to look into what they are using as fillers in those vitamins while you are doing research as a precaution. Congrats and good luck with your baby. Note if you spoon-fed your child the ingredients in the vaccines you may be planning to give them you would be jailed, but if a vaccine injures you or your child the makers are not liable. Fair game.
It may be legal for you to spout nonsense advice which can kill people if they follow it, but it isn’t moral or right. Almost every point on your graphic is a flat out baldfaced lie.
Pfizer has a list of their ingredients here. None of them are nearly as likely to kill you as Covid. My good friend’s previously healthy father is dead now because of Covid, so please don’t try to convince us it doesn’t kill people.
https://www.pfizer.com/news/hot-topics/the_facts_about_pfizer_and_biontech_s_covid_19_vaccine21 -
I mean let's all fear dihydrogen monoxide. It's in everything.
I got the vaccine. I work in healthcare and was so grateful to get it.
You can always find 1 expert who is against something. Maybe listen to the 99 others who are for it!15 -
I am all for getting it! Matter of fact I got dose #1 of Pfizer on Monday this week and am scheduled early April for #2. I don't like having a sore arm or with the 2nd possibly a fever for a day but compared to having the "bad" Covid I think it's a slam dunk choice.
If you had asked me this in 2017 I might have said no. My background is military and one time in the 80s when we were having a readiness exercise they must have given me 4 shots all at one time to "catch me up". I had a significant reaction and was very ill for 48 hrs. After that I never took shots at all. I rarely get sick.
But our workplace changed from cubicles to open work space in about 2017 and in early 2018 I got the flu. WOW. That totally knocked me for a loop. It was awful. Fever for a week. Basically sleeping on the couch and pouring water out all night long so I had to wrap myself in a bath towel. I thought the water bed sprung a leak the first time. I lost my sense of taste and smell for several days and was not quite right for almost a month all told. If Covid was/is going to be worse than that I figured I would be in the hospital. Since then I have been a lot more careful and taken the flu shot with little to no reaction at all (except a sore arm). The shingles shots were awful but the shingles would be worse.
SO now esp with such amazing science to get us here with multiple vaccines I am ALL for vaccination. I have friends who want to "wait" and that is their balliwick. I mean if I were a lot younger I might wait also to see if perhaps longer term analysis could be done (like years!) . And I have friends who have had more recent reactions to vaccinations who will not get it either. And I guess I am OK with that. As long as they have legitimate reasons and not some whacko you are being chipped crap then they get no argument from me.
We know so little about the disease itself. I have seen people with no symptoms except loss of smell and others in ICU on vents. Some of it you can trace perhaps to secondary issues but some of it seem totally random. As long as it feels like a lotto as to whether you get mild or non symptomatic or end up with long Covid and a vent I think getting ANY vaccine to help prevent significant disease is the way to go.
7 -
I had COVID-19 in January.
(Age 29/female) - 2 weeks of bedrest and feeling horrible.
Based on the fact that I recently had it and I am not in a high-risk group, I will be waiting to decide whether or not I will get it. Currently leaning towards....no. Let me explain!
Many women my age are hesitant due to the lack of info regarding the longterm effects the vax could have on fertility/pregnancies/newborns who are breast-feeding, etc. Anyone know any recent studies on this? Many Australian virologists are urging women in their child-bearing years to refrain from receiving it.
I have talked to about 20 women ages 25-32 and none of them plan on getting the vax. Keep in mind we are the generation that was pressured to get the Gardisal vaccine during our teens. We received them in gym class in 9th grade. Three painful shots to prevent HPV.
10-12 years later there are multiple studies on its link to infertility, etc. We are a worried bunch!
https://vaccineimpact.com/2018/study-hpv-gardasil-vaccine-linked-to-decline-in-fertility-rates-in-u-s-women-aged-25-29/
https://pregnant.sg/articles/link-between-hpv-vaccine-and-infertility/
https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/prescription-drugs/gardasil-lawsuit/gardasil-deaths/
I have 2 great friends that received Gardisal in 2008-2009 and have not been able to conceive. This was a vaccine that was HIGHLY encouraged by the CDC for all teens.
It seems unrealistic for scientists to suggest that the COVID-19 vaccine is safe for women longterm when we haven't even seen it run its course for a year yet.
Sadly, we cannot even freely discuss it without being labeled ANTI-VAX. We aren't allowed to ask questions. What a world.
P.S. We just want more info. Don't cancel me!
Let's discuss it. 10 -
Had my AZ vaccine two days ago. No after effects. Today I ran a 10k PB and have never felt better.6
-
frecklesandkale wrote: »I had COVID-19 in January.
(Age 29/female) - 2 weeks of bedrest and feeling horrible.
Based on the fact that I recently had it and I am not in a high-risk group, I will be waiting to decide whether or not I will get it. Currently leaning towards....no. Let me explain!
Many women my age are hesitant due to the lack of info regarding the longterm effects the vax could have on fertility/pregnancies/newborns who are breast-feeding, etc. Anyone know any recent studies on this? Many Australian virologists are urging women in their child-bearing years to refrain from receiving it.
I have talked to about 20 women ages 25-32 and none of them plan on getting the vax. Keep in mind we are the generation that was pressured to get the Gardisal vaccine during our teens. We received them in gym class in 9th grade. Three painful shots to prevent HPV.
10-12 years later there are multiple studies on its link to infertility, etc. We are a worried bunch!
https://vaccineimpact.com/2018/study-hpv-gardasil-vaccine-linked-to-decline-in-fertility-rates-in-u-s-women-aged-25-29/
https://pregnant.sg/articles/link-between-hpv-vaccine-and-infertility/
https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/prescription-drugs/gardasil-lawsuit/gardasil-deaths/
I have 2 great friends that received Gardisal in 2008-2009 and have not been able to conceive. This was a vaccine that was HIGHLY encouraged by the CDC for all teens.
It seems unrealistic for scientists to suggest that the COVID-19 vaccine is safe for women longterm when we haven't even seen it run its course for a year yet.
Sadly, we cannot even freely discuss it without being labeled ANTI-VAX. We aren't allowed to ask questions. What a world.
P.S. We just want more info. Don't cancel me! Let's discuss it.
If you link to anti-vax sites, being labeled "ANTI-VAX" is the risk you're running.18 -
Oh, well. The sites go on for days.
2 -
‘We, the Editor and Publisher of Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, Part A have retracted the article. Following the review and publication of the article, we were alerted to concerns about the scientific validity of the study.’
‘As a result, we sought advice on the methodology, analysis, and interpretation from a number of experts in the field.’
‘All of the post-publication reports we received described serious flaws in the statistical analysis and interpretation of the data in this paper, and we have therefore taken the decision to retract it.’
https://www.vaxbeforecancer.com/birth-rate-study-retracted -hpv-vaccine-infertility
Results
8.1% reported any infertility. Women who had ever been married and had received an HPV vaccine were less likely to report infertility (OR 0.04, 95% CI 0.01–0.57) in model 1. No other associations between HPV and infertility were found.
Conclusion
There was no evidence of increased infertility among women who received the HPV vaccine. These results provide further evidence of HPV vaccine safety and should give providers confidence in recommending HPV vaccination. Further research should explore protective effects of HPV vaccines on female and male fertility.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7255493/
24 -
‘We, the Editor and Publisher of Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, Part A have retracted the article. Following the review and publication of the article, we were alerted to concerns about the scientific validity of the study.’
‘As a result, we sought advice on the methodology, analysis, and interpretation from a number of experts in the field.’
‘All of the post-publication reports we received described serious flaws in the statistical analysis and interpretation of the data in this paper, and we have therefore taken the decision to retract it.’
https://www.vaxbeforecancer.com/birth-rate-study-retracted -hpv-vaccine-infertility
Results
8.1% reported any infertility. Women who had ever been married and had received an HPV vaccine were less likely to report infertility (OR 0.04, 95% CI 0.01–0.57) in model 1. No other associations between HPV and infertility were found.
Conclusion
There was no evidence of increased infertility among women who received the HPV vaccine. These results provide further evidence of HPV vaccine safety and should give providers confidence in recommending HPV vaccination. Further research should explore protective effects of HPV vaccines on female and male fertility.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7255493/
Thanks for looking this up and posting it.
9
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.2K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 421 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions