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COVID19 - To Vaccinate or To Not Vaccinate
Replies
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healthyhannah__ wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »healthyhannah__ wrote: »
I'm not sure what you mean by "allow room for this conversation to happen." The conversation WAS happening. People responded to the inaccurate information with accurate information. Allowing a conversation to happen doesn't require validating fears that are not grounded in reality. In instances where there is no information to support a particular set of claims, that can and should be pointed out.
I don't think anyone is denying that anti-vax information isn't out there and it isn't causing some people to avoid medical treatments that will save lives. We obviously know it is out there and we know that people are being harmed by it. It's obvious that people are being told stuff like this.
I just skimmed the thread and from the replies I thought Kermit was telling people to not get the vaccine.
She was suggesting it was not safe or that people who might otherwise get the vaccine should be concerned that it is unsafe: "It seems unrealistic for scientists to suggest that the COVID-19 vaccine is safe for women longterm when we haven't even seen it run its course for a year yet."
Also, the "just asking question" thing is a very common approach to anti vax arguments, as is the "these other people say" or "experts claim" (with no legitimate supporting evidence provided) or the like, and those were all present.
I am curious about who these AU researchers are, as that seems somewhat specific. Not that I really care. My own problem is that I would like to get vaccinated and probably won't even have the opportunity for some time. If people are trying to push the vaccine on Kermit, she can give hers to me (yes, I know that's not possible).11 -
As to the concern that the vaccines were created so quickly... The long timeline typical for vaccine development isn't spent creating the vaccine, it's spent getting money and permissions to conduct trials and ramp up production. Most of the years involved are spent applying for and waiting for grants, and applying for and waiting for authorizations. Because the entire world was on hold, money was thrown at any research and trials immediately, and requests for permissions were moved to the front of the line. The corners cut were mostly bureaucratic, though the trial times were shortened a little.
The technology and ingredients in the mRNA vaccines have been worked on for years, they were just waiting for someone with deep pockets willing to pay for the final steps. And the J&J vaccine is basically the ebola vaccine they have been administering for a decade, with the virus protein (I think I'm using the right term there) switched out. Both are the culmination of years of work, not hastily thrown together experiments.
This is something that I'm surprised more people aren't aware of. Not only have mRNA vaccines been worked on for years, all kinds of vaccine research for various things is continuously ongoing...and a lot comes down to $$$ for funding.
I have a high school friend who works on this kind of stuff in Chicago (I think that's where he is now...he always seems to be moving around)...I remember when people first started talking about the vaccine and how it could take years and he was like, "nah...we have the science...we just don't have the money."15 -
healthyhannah__ wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »healthyhannah__ wrote: »
I'm not sure what you mean by "allow room for this conversation to happen." The conversation WAS happening. People responded to the inaccurate information with accurate information. Allowing a conversation to happen doesn't require validating fears that are not grounded in reality. In instances where there is no information to support a particular set of claims, that can and should be pointed out.
I don't think anyone is denying that anti-vax information isn't out there and it isn't causing some people to avoid medical treatments that will save lives. We obviously know it is out there and we know that people are being harmed by it. It's obvious that people are being told stuff like this.
I just skimmed the thread and from the replies I thought Kermit was telling people to not get the vaccine.
She was suggesting it was not safe or that people who might otherwise get the vaccine should be concerned that it is unsafe: "It seems unrealistic for scientists to suggest that the COVID-19 vaccine is safe for women longterm when we haven't even seen it run its course for a year yet."
Also, the "just asking question" thing is a very common approach to anti vax arguments, as is the "these other people say" or "experts claim" (with no legitimate supporting evidence provided) or the like, and those were all present.
I am curious about who these AU researchers are, as that seems somewhat specific. Not that I really care. My own problem is that I would like to get vaccinated and probably won't even have the opportunity for some time. If people are trying to push the vaccine on Kermit, she can give hers to me (yes, I know that's not possible).
IMO, someone who is telling others that "many" unnamed experts are recommending a certain course of action is going beyond "just asking questions."11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »healthyhannah__ wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »healthyhannah__ wrote: »
I'm not sure what you mean by "allow room for this conversation to happen." The conversation WAS happening. People responded to the inaccurate information with accurate information. Allowing a conversation to happen doesn't require validating fears that are not grounded in reality. In instances where there is no information to support a particular set of claims, that can and should be pointed out.
I don't think anyone is denying that anti-vax information isn't out there and it isn't causing some people to avoid medical treatments that will save lives. We obviously know it is out there and we know that people are being harmed by it. It's obvious that people are being told stuff like this.
I just skimmed the thread and from the replies I thought Kermit was telling people to not get the vaccine.
She was suggesting it was not safe or that people who might otherwise get the vaccine should be concerned that it is unsafe: "It seems unrealistic for scientists to suggest that the COVID-19 vaccine is safe for women longterm when we haven't even seen it run its course for a year yet."
Also, the "just asking question" thing is a very common approach to anti vax arguments, as is the "these other people say" or "experts claim" (with no legitimate supporting evidence provided) or the like, and those were all present.
I am curious about who these AU researchers are, as that seems somewhat specific. Not that I really care. My own problem is that I would like to get vaccinated and probably won't even have the opportunity for some time. If people are trying to push the vaccine on Kermit, she can give hers to me (yes, I know that's not possible).
IMO, someone who is telling others that "many" unnamed experts are recommending a certain course of action is going beyond "just asking questions."
This is true too.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »As to the concern that the vaccines were created so quickly... The long timeline typical for vaccine development isn't spent creating the vaccine, it's spent getting money and permissions to conduct trials and ramp up production. Most of the years involved are spent applying for and waiting for grants, and applying for and waiting for authorizations. Because the entire world was on hold, money was thrown at any research and trials immediately, and requests for permissions were moved to the front of the line. The corners cut were mostly bureaucratic, though the trial times were shortened a little.
The technology and ingredients in the mRNA vaccines have been worked on for years, they were just waiting for someone with deep pockets willing to pay for the final steps. And the J&J vaccine is basically the ebola vaccine they have been administering for a decade, with the virus protein (I think I'm using the right term there) switched out. Both are the culmination of years of work, not hastily thrown together experiments.
This is something that I'm surprised more people aren't aware of. Not only have mRNA vaccines been worked on for years, all kinds of vaccine research for various things is continuously ongoing...and a lot comes down to $$$ for funding.
I have a high school friend who works on this kind of stuff in Chicago (I think that's where he is now...he always seems to be moving around)...I remember when people first started talking about the vaccine and how it could take years and he was like, "nah...we have the science...we just don't have the money."
I know you know this, Wolfman, but I’m commenting for the general conversation.
Another factor in the speed of the Covid trials is that there’s so much infection in so many places, i.e., it’s a pandemic.
Normally, a vaccine goes through some safety testing in vitro (tested on cells in dishes) or something of that nature, then small-scale safety tests on humans. The large scale tests are mainly for effectiveness.
At that stage, many people sign up for the trial, and they’re split in two groups. One group gets the vaccine, the other gets the placebo (looks the same, even the people giving the shot don’t know which is which).
Then the researchers have to wait until there are enough cases in the trial group to see that there’s a statistically significant difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated subgroups, in infection, severity or both.
If the vaccine is for a virus that’s uncommon or geographically unpredictable, that can take a really long time of waiting and monitoring. With Covid, in a pandemic, there are enough cases in enough places that the cases stack up quickly, so statistically significant differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated subgroups show up much faster.
There are multiple reasons this vaccine has been fast: New mRNA technology (years in the making), scientists in adjacent fields getting involved in development and dropping their other work to do so, international collaboration between companies that usually compete and keep secrets, vast infusions of money, and the differences in the trial speed because it's a pandemic . . . among others, probably.
IMO, all this costs us is the possibility of finding out about really tiny, specialized bad reactions in sub-populations (small numbers of unusual people), or very long term side effects. It's not common for vaccines to have long term side effects - highly unusual, in fact. But we do have indications that the disease itself will have long-term side effects, and higher mortality for some fairly common subgroups (elderly, diabetic, etc.). We're balancing what is believed to be a small risk (long term or unknown small-group consequences of vaccine), with a much bigger risk (long term and moderate-sized group consequences of the disease)..10 -
cmriverside wrote: »
I mean, it's a free-for-all for every whackadoo opinion and no one source is immune to over-reacting it seems.
Sadly, yes.
When I first got exposed to the internet (roughly 1998ish) my impression was that it was a giant platform for selling stuff, and for convincing people to buy stuff they didn't know they needed if they weren't already looking for it. It's only gone downhill since then, IMO.
I have a very good former friend who went full rabbit hole last year. There were some pre-existing tendencies that found ample fertilizer on the internet and my friend came completely unhinged.5 -
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I am curious, how do you convince someone who refuses to get the vaccine, because they believe “it really isn’t a vaccine”? Not me, I am fully vaccinated.1
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RetiredAndLovingIt wrote: »I am curious, how do you convince someone who refuses to get the vaccine, because they believe “it really isn’t a vaccine”? Not me, I am fully vaccinated.
Why bother trying to convince anyone? There isn’t enough to go around, let someone who wants it have it.7 -
With all the talk about vaccine safety in pregnant women, I thought that this was good news and a good link to share.
First baby in U.S. born with antibodies against COVID-19 after mom receives dose of Moderna vaccine while pregnant - CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-moderna-baby-born-antibodies/8 -
I had COVID-19 in January.
(Age 29/female) - 2 weeks of bedrest and feeling horrible.
Based on the fact that I recently had it and I am not in a high-risk group, I will be waiting to decide whether or not I will get it. Currently leaning towards....no. Let me explain!
Many women my age are hesitant due to the lack of info regarding the longterm effects the vax could have on fertility/pregnancies/newborns who are breast-feeding, etc. Anyone know any recent studies on this? Many Australian virologists are urging women in their child-bearing years to refrain from receiving it.
I have talked to about 20 women ages 25-32 and none of them plan on getting the vax. Keep in mind we are the generation that was pressured to get the Gardisal vaccine during our teens. We received them in gym class in 9th grade. Three painful shots to prevent HPV.
10-12 years later there are multiple studies on its link to infertility, etc. We are a worried bunch!
https://vaccineimpact.com/2018/study-hpv-gardasil-vaccine-linked-to-decline-in-fertility-rates-in-u-s-women-aged-25-29/
https://pregnant.sg/articles/link-between-hpv-vaccine-and-infertility/
https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/prescription-drugs/gardasil-lawsuit/gardasil-deaths/
I have 2 great friends that received Gardisal in 2008-2009 and have not been able to conceive. This was a vaccine that was HIGHLY encouraged by the CDC for all teens.
It seems unrealistic for scientists to suggest that the COVID-19 vaccine is safe for women longterm when we haven't even seen it run its course for a year yet.
Sadly, we cannot even freely discuss it without being labeled ANTI-VAX. We aren't allowed to ask questions. What a world.
P.S. We just want more info. Don't cancel me!
Let's discuss it.
None of those "articles" are peer reviewed articles. The link is tenuous at best, and correlation does not mean causation.
HPV can, and often does, cause cervical cancer. My kids are definitely getting the vaccine.10 -
cmriverside wrote: »I am super surprised for instance that @Theo166 didn't have the basic understanding of the mRNA vaccine technology until yesterday. This thing (Covid) has stopped the world in its tracks and will affect the world's economy (i.e. YOU) for the next ten years minimum ....and people haven't taken an hour or so of their past year's isolation to learn about this vaccine? It's mind-boggling to me.
As far as the HPV vac, at least you have to have sex to catch it so there is some personal control. The SARS virus(es) are way too easily transmitted for us to be safe without a majority being vaccinated.
The anti-vaxx crap sadly doesn't surprise me even though I think it's a very dangerous stance - for all of us. I mean, people believe all kinds of scary stuff. Or are they just trolling us in a long game?
My uncle used to say, "Well, it will thin the herd."
I don't get your faux outrage at me, didn't you read my post?
- I already had COVID so I didn't really need the vaccine urgently. I was donating plasma for COVID therapy up to Jan, so I knew I still had some protection. I read up on everything related to treatment before I got COVID (well before vaccines were coming out), but after I recovered it was no longer a priority.
- My friends and family are pro-vaccine, no need to second guess the intricoes of the various vaccines being developed.
maybe you should reflect on your anger before posting.3 -
If the facts behind this story are correct, this is why the vaccine is important/necessary https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/triplets-orphaned-as-mum-dies-from-covid-dad-killed-in-car-crash/news-story/f87f771619228401707387dece7715050
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Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56440139
A review by the EU's medicines regulator has concluded the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine is "safe and effective".
The European Medicines Agency (EMA) investigated after 13 EU states suspended use of the vaccine over fears of a link to blood clots.
It found the jab was "not associated" with a higher risk of clots.
Still can't get my head around why so many EU states that are in a desperate situation of rising infection rates are so keen to suspend one of the key vaccines when no causal link was indicated.
Over here, The Netherlands, last week (March 11) they announced that they would continue vaccinating, even though countries around us were having a hold on it with the AstraZeneca vaccin.
3 days later, we also put a hold on it, because they received new info about the vaccin.
They researched any causation to the vaccin and the blood clots, but came to conclusion there wasn't any, so it has started up again.
To give numbers and put everything in perspective.
They vaccinated almost 19 million people with this vaccine (in europe alone) and there were only 27 cases of people with the blood clots
That's basically saying that someone gets the vaccine and they get hit by a bus and it had everything to do with the vaccine
I agree that they had to do the research on the vaccine, to see if it was serious or not, but i think they should not have stopped vaccinating. And if there was some correlation to the vaccine, report back to the people who got the vaccine and have them get a check-up
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With all the talk about vaccine safety in pregnant women, I thought that this was good news and a good link to share.
First baby in U.S. born with antibodies against COVID-19 after mom receives dose of Moderna vaccine while pregnant - CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-moderna-baby-born-antibodies/
I actually thought that you should not get the vaccine if you are pregnant.
But that goes for all vaccines i thought
PS CBS news is not scientific news, so if there is someone to provide actual papers on yes or no vaccine for pregnant woman, i would like to know0 -
cmriverside wrote: »I am super surprised for instance that @Theo166 didn't have the basic understanding of the mRNA vaccine technology until yesterday. This thing (Covid) has stopped the world in its tracks and will affect the world's economy (i.e. YOU) for the next ten years minimum ....and people haven't taken an hour or so of their past year's isolation to learn about this vaccine? It's mind-boggling to me.
As far as the HPV vac, at least you have to have sex to catch it so there is some personal control. The SARS virus(es) are way too easily transmitted for us to be safe without a majority being vaccinated.
The anti-vaxx crap sadly doesn't surprise me even though I think it's a very dangerous stance - for all of us. I mean, people believe all kinds of scary stuff. Or are they just trolling us in a long game?
My uncle used to say, "Well, it will thin the herd."
I don't get your faux outrage at me, didn't you read my post?
- I already had COVID so I didn't really need the vaccine urgently. I was donating plasma for COVID therapy up to Jan, so I knew I still had some protection. I read up on everything related to treatment before I got COVID (well before vaccines were coming out), but after I recovered it was no longer a priority.
- My friends and family are pro-vaccine, no need to second guess the intricoes of the various vaccines being developed.
maybe you should reflect on your anger before posting.
"super surprised" and anger are two very different emotions.
At some point you'll likely need vaccination and since it's a huge world event it just surprised me to find out there was someone with internet access who hadn't read about the mRNA technology until two days ago.
If you hadn't read about it that means a lot of people are also ignorant of the mechanism behind it. That SURPRISES me. I don't know how to check that emotion.4 -
Vaccines are not stopping the spread. So, If you're afraid then vaccinate. Just don't impose your fear on me. If I get sick I'll stay home.2
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Minion_training_program wrote: »With all the talk about vaccine safety in pregnant women, I thought that this was good news and a good link to share.
First baby in U.S. born with antibodies against COVID-19 after mom receives dose of Moderna vaccine while pregnant - CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-moderna-baby-born-antibodies/
I actually thought that you should not get the vaccine if you are pregnant.
But that goes for all vaccines i thought
PS CBS news is not scientific news, so if there is someone to provide actual papers on yes or no vaccine for pregnant woman, i would like to know
Vaccines, in and of themselves, aren't contra-indicated for people who are pregnant. The flu vaccine, for example, is actually recommended during pregnancy and they're currently tracking over 100 pregnant people who have received the COVID vaccination.4 -
There is no reliable evidence based study that links Gardasil to infertility just like there is no proof that other vaccines cause autism.
It is the same with the Covid vaccine. When you actually understand the physiology of the human body and vaccines, it makes complete sense.
Vaccines do not harm anyone. All they do is stimulate an immune response which happens naturally anyway when we are exposed to viruses and bacteria in the environment.
The Covid vaccine is a code for the spike protein of Covid. It is a piece of RNA, genetic material. You have a greater chance of being harmed through the body’s immune response to the actual virus than you do through the vaccine, which isn’t even a complete virus.
Naturally people want to find something to blame their infertility or child’s birth defects on. But, it is foolish and unfair to blame vaccines because that logic just isn’t sound.
I've been thinking about this, and I don't think it is universally true. A new Dengue vaccine did contribute the deaths of children in the Philippines not that long ago. I think dengue is kind of a unique illness where instead of becoming immune after the illness, you actually get sicker the second time you get it. So I believe the vaccine triggered more severe illness if those who had never been previously exposed got sick, and some children did die.
I actually thought about that when I heard that this vaccine was being kind of fast tracked - did they test it in people who had previously been exposed? Did they test what happened if you got Covid after receiving it?
I still wonder what effect the vaccine might have if you get exposed to a different variant. I know with dengue there is something called "antibody-dependent enhancement" where previous exposure actually makes the symptoms worse.
Since I already got my first shot I am hoping that Covid doesn't evolve that way as well. (Although I am not a virologist so maybe the coronavirus behaves totatly differently than the dengue virus - it is the only one I have heard of that does that.)1 -
There is no reliable evidence based study that links Gardasil to infertility just like there is no proof that other vaccines cause autism.
It is the same with the Covid vaccine. When you actually understand the physiology of the human body and vaccines, it makes complete sense.
Vaccines do not harm anyone. All they do is stimulate an immune response which happens naturally anyway when we are exposed to viruses and bacteria in the environment.
The Covid vaccine is a code for the spike protein of Covid. It is a piece of RNA, genetic material. You have a greater chance of being harmed through the body’s immune response to the actual virus than you do through the vaccine, which isn’t even a complete virus.
Naturally people want to find something to blame their infertility or child’s birth defects on. But, it is foolish and unfair to blame vaccines because that logic just isn’t sound.
I've been thinking about this, and I don't think it is universally true. A new Dengue vaccine did contribute the deaths of children in the Philippines not that long ago. I think dengue is kind of a unique illness where instead of becoming immune after the illness, you actually get sicker the second time you get it. So I believe the vaccine triggered more severe illness if those who had never been previously exposed got sick, and some children did die.
I actually thought about that when I heard that this vaccine was being kind of fast tracked - did they test it in people who had previously been exposed? Did they test what happened if you got Covid after receiving it?
I still wonder what effect the vaccine might have if you get exposed to a different variant. I know with dengue there is something called "antibody-dependent enhancement" where previous exposure actually makes the symptoms worse.
Since I already got my first shot I am hoping that Covid doesn't evolve that way as well. (Although I am not a virologist so maybe the coronavirus behaves totatly differently than the dengue virus - it is the only one I have heard of that does that.)
You’re right about dengue. Getting reinfected by another variant leads to worse illness than if you had no previous exposure. Zika is another in that family of viruses, flaviviruses, which makes it tricky to develop a vaccine for.
Covid is a coronavirus, completely different beast. We don’t yet know what will happen with reinfection with a different variant in all cases. The only thing that we do know (and this is true of dengue as well) is that any unintended effects like that would be just as bad or worse if you had the virus itself instead of the vaccine.
There HAVE been bad vaccines in the past, which are capable of doing harm. The swine flu vaccine which I got as a small child in the 1970s is an example of a virus which had frequent side effects and turned out to be withdrawn after being pushed through quickly. However, we’ve already had more testing on the Covid vaccines than it had.
We don’t know the long term effects of the Covid vaccine. However, we do know the long term effects of Covid - death for some and debility for many. Chances are good that the vaccine is better than that.6 -
cmriverside wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I am super surprised for instance that @Theo166 didn't have the basic understanding of the mRNA vaccine technology until yesterday. This thing (Covid) has stopped the world in its tracks and will affect the world's economy (i.e. YOU) for the next ten years minimum ....and people haven't taken an hour or so of their past year's isolation to learn about this vaccine? It's mind-boggling to me.
As far as the HPV vac, at least you have to have sex to catch it so there is some personal control. The SARS virus(es) are way too easily transmitted for us to be safe without a majority being vaccinated.
The anti-vaxx crap sadly doesn't surprise me even though I think it's a very dangerous stance - for all of us. I mean, people believe all kinds of scary stuff. Or are they just trolling us in a long game?
My uncle used to say, "Well, it will thin the herd."
I don't get your faux outrage at me, didn't you read my post?
- I already had COVID so I didn't really need the vaccine urgently. I was donating plasma for COVID therapy up to Jan, so I knew I still had some protection. I read up on everything related to treatment before I got COVID (well before vaccines were coming out), but after I recovered it was no longer a priority.
- My friends and family are pro-vaccine, no need to second guess the intricoes of the various vaccines being developed.
maybe you should reflect on your anger before posting.
"super surprised" and anger are two very different emotions.
At some point you'll likely need vaccination and since it's a huge world event it just surprised me to find out there was someone with internet access who hadn't read about the mRNA technology until two days ago.
If you hadn't read about it that means a lot of people are also ignorant of the mechanism behind it. That SURPRISES me. I don't know how to check that emotion.
A vast number of people don’t understand how any vaccines work, much less how a specific one works. You shouldn’t really be surprised.9 -
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Vaccines are not stopping the spread. So, If you're afraid then vaccinate. Just don't impose your fear on me. If I get sick I'll stay home.
Well, if you have proof that people that have been fully vaccinated are still able to spread the virus, I'd love to see it.
The rest of your post is nonsense.6 -
Minion_training_program wrote: »With all the talk about vaccine safety in pregnant women, I thought that this was good news and a good link to share.
First baby in U.S. born with antibodies against COVID-19 after mom receives dose of Moderna vaccine while pregnant - CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-moderna-baby-born-antibodies/
I actually thought that you should not get the vaccine if you are pregnant.
But that goes for all vaccines i thought
PS CBS news is not scientific news, so if there is someone to provide actual papers on yes or no vaccine for pregnant woman, i would like to know
Because of the lack of data, the guideline as I understand it is that pregnant women should consult with their doctors and make the best decision for themselves they can. So it's neither contraindicated or encouraged.
I don't believe the linked story was saying pregnant women should get the vaccine, just reporting that this pregnant woman did, and her baby was born with antibodies.3 -
Vaccines are not stopping the spread. <snip>
Actually, cases in nursing homes in the US have plummeted since vaccinations became available to them, and restrictions on visitors have been loosened.
Considering less than a quarter of the US is vaccinated so far, and those eligible for the shot in most areas are people who were most likely staying home anyway, anyone who understands how vaccinations work wouldn't be expecting national case numbers over all to have dropped drastically yet.16 -
Vaccines can't stop the spread until they reach a herd immunity level...at this point my state is only about 11% vaccinated, it's not enough to stop the spread...not even enough to considerably slow it...but as the percentage of population vaccinated increases, it will slow and then stop the spread of covid, it's just going to take a while getting to that point.4
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I think there are multiple camps on this issue. You have the pro vaccination group, the I am not going to get it because.. group, and the anti vaccination because it will kill you group. I agree with Kimny, I am also surprised that the US #s have dropped so rapidly, and I don't think it is possible that it is attributable to the vaccine but if a single dose gives some immunity or less severe cases perhaps it is? We did start this process in Dec.0
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Vaccines are not stopping the spread. <snip>
Actually, cases in nursing homes in the US have plummeted since vaccinations became available to them, and restrictions on visitors have been loosened.
Considering less than a quarter of the US is vaccinated so far, and those eligible for the shot in most areas are people who were most likely staying home anyway, anyone who understands how vaccinations work wouldn't be expecting national case numbers over all to have dropped drastically yet.
My husband and I were just talking about this - it's kind of a catch-22. Our numbers are going up again and pretty sure we are heading for another lockdown. We are now vaccinating 80+ years, and moving to 75+ shortly. Those people are the most likely to get serious illness, yet the younger people are the most likely to spread it. So who should we vaccinate first? Now that long term care homes are done I am thinking it should be younger people who have to go out to work.1 -
In Italy AstraZeneca has been re-instated and vaccinations are proceeding this afternoon. However damage has been done and some will not take it when offered.3
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