Coronavirus prep

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I couldn't imagine being in my early to mid 20s right now when my entire life revolved around social interactions...dating, parties, bars and clubs, etc. I'm honestly not sure what my reaction would have been if I was 22 years old or something and I was told I just needed to stay home for a year + and not see or gather with my friends.

I graduated university in 2019, so less than a year before covid. I have a lot of friends who are still studying, just graduated high school etc., and I’m still pretty active in my student community (in supporting senior/alumni roles). It breaks my heart to see especially those who graduated high school last spring try to find their place. All those once-in-a-lifetime experiences like high school graduation and freshman year at university were destroyed, and the critical time to find new friends and adult social circles is missing. They either didn’t get to move out from their parents’ homes as planned, or they’re stuck in tiny student housing instead of meeting people in classes, cafeterias, parties and student events. They are expected to stay home in their bedrooms looking at laptops all day, not meeting new people and making connections that are crucial as both friendships and career networks.

Apart from individual level, I’m also genuinely concerned for the amount of (student) culture that disappears from society due to covid. Of course, some traditions would have eventually died anyway, but some have lasted generations and generations (seriously, my most important student community is 368 years old) and are dependent on new student generations adopting those traditions and customs to pass them on. New traditions will grow eventually, but my heart breaks for the students who anticipated being introduced to those traditions and their time being stolen away from them, as well as the communities whose traditions will be lost because 2 years is enough of a gap for the chain of student generations to break and start losing its collective memory.

Those traditions are amazing, and at least for me were a key part in forming my student experience (and also a good reason why it took me 6 years to graduate and what keeps me still involved). There are so many traditions that simply don’t exist outside student societies and communities. I’m especially hurting for May Day celebrations, which are a huge deal here and celebrated nationally by pretty much everyone, especially college-educated people. It’s big enough that I’ve participated in the traditions since I was a baby, my parents and all their friends still participate and show up for the huge city-wide picnics, and I remember my grandparents showing up well into their 70s. While the main thing is commonly shared and people experience it with their families starting very young, each student community has their own specific traditions that are hugely important and that current freshmen and sophomores are missing out on, and will never get back because May Day traditionally has initiation rites that mark the passing from freshmen to full members of those communities. You can always postpone settling down and spend a couple of extra years partying post-covid if that’s your thing, but traditions and one-time-things like that you can’t get back.

missysippy930 wrote: »

Then the solution to this is to just allow once in a lifetime experiences? Turn a blind eye to behavior that may cause serious health consequences, even death? Is it unfair? Absolutely. At some point in time, we all have to learn that life isn’t always fair. Is there an age limit on learning this? Should young people have to learn to sacrifice for the good of others? Is it a bad thing to miss opportunities that could lead to illness and possible death of others or loved ones? Are we, or have we, learned anything in the past year? Compassion for others can be learned.

The fact that I’m sad for kids and 20-somethings doesn’t mean I think they should get a free pass. It means I have empathy and compassion for them, which, as you said, can be learned. It can also be learned and expressed towards said 20-somethings who are arguably sacrificing a more significant 2-year portion of their life than many of us.

missysippy930 wrote: »

Then the solution to this is to just allow once in a lifetime experiences? Turn a blind eye to behavior that may cause serious health consequences, even death? Is it unfair? Absolutely. At some point in time, we all have to learn that life isn’t always fair. Is there an age limit on learning this? Should young people have to learn to sacrifice for the good of others? Is it a bad thing to miss opportunities that could lead to illness and possible death of others or loved ones? Are we, or have we, learned anything in the past year? Compassion for others can be learned.

I really don't think anyone is saying that. Like literally nobody said that except you.

hipari wrote: »

missysippy930 wrote: »

Then the solution to this is to just allow once in a lifetime experiences? Turn a blind eye to behavior that may cause serious health consequences, even death? Is it unfair? Absolutely. At some point in time, we all have to learn that life isn’t always fair. Is there an age limit on learning this? Should young people have to learn to sacrifice for the good of others? Is it a bad thing to miss opportunities that could lead to illness and possible death of others or loved ones? Are we, or have we, learned anything in the past year? Compassion for others can be learned.

The fact that I’m sad for kids and 20-somethings doesn’t mean I think they should get a free pass. It means I have empathy and compassion for them, which, as you said, can be learned. It can also be learned and expressed towards said 20-somethings who are arguably sacrificing a more significant 2-year portion of their life than many of us.

First of all I’m not sure that you taking six years to graduate is successfully advocating for these traditions! 😂

But I do get what you’re saying. I’m 52 and the year when I was 19 ranks as one of the best years of my life. I was at the peak of my personal physical attractiveness, I was free to travel and get to know people and have all sorts of new experiences. I could dance all night without getting tired!

I can’t imagine what I would feel like if I were, say, a high school senior last year. It would be heartbreaking.

I think even worse are some very young children. I was reading the experiences of a mom talking about her four-year-old who doesn’t really miss his friends - because he has never really had any friends. At about the same age that children start making real friends he stopped being allowed to be around other children. What the heck with that, is that something that he can get back? Small children have some time-sensitive parts of their brains, if they don’t get the right sort of stimulus at the right time, they never really recover. Are these kids all going to be emotionally stunted and damaged for their whole lives because of this lost year?

But, on the other side, there’s my dad. What would have been his freshman year of college was spent getting ready to ship out to the Pacific to fight in a war. This is not the first time young people have had their lives completely upended by world-changing events. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers never saw their babies for months and months. It was terrible, but the world didn’t come to an end forever. As far as young children are concerned, people who settled the prairies lived miles from other families, and somehow they grew up mostly normal. Human beings are resilient.

rheddmobile wrote: »

hipari wrote: »

missysippy930 wrote: »

Then the solution to this is to just allow once in a lifetime experiences? Turn a blind eye to behavior that may cause serious health consequences, even death? Is it unfair? Absolutely. At some point in time, we all have to learn that life isn’t always fair. Is there an age limit on learning this? Should young people have to learn to sacrifice for the good of others? Is it a bad thing to miss opportunities that could lead to illness and possible death of others or loved ones? Are we, or have we, learned anything in the past year? Compassion for others can be learned.

The fact that I’m sad for kids and 20-somethings doesn’t mean I think they should get a free pass. It means I have empathy and compassion for them, which, as you said, can be learned. It can also be learned and expressed towards said 20-somethings who are arguably sacrificing a more significant 2-year portion of their life than many of us.

First of all I’m not sure that you taking six years to graduate is successfully advocating for these traditions! 😂

But I do get what you’re saying. I’m 52 and the year when I was 19 ranks as one of the best years of my life. I was at the peak of my personal physical attractiveness, I was free to travel and get to know people and have all sorts of new experiences. I could dance all night without getting tired!

I can’t imagine what I would feel like if I were, say, a high school senior last year. It would be heartbreaking.

I think even worse are some very young children. I was reading the experiences of a mom talking about her four-year-old who doesn’t really miss his friends - because he has never really had any friends. At about the same age that children start making real friends he stopped being allowed to be around other children. What the heck with that, is that something that he can get back? Small children have some time-sensitive parts of their brains, if they don’t get the right sort of stimulus at the right time, they never really recover. Are these kids all going to be emotionally stunted and damaged for their whole lives because of this lost year?

But, on the other side, there’s my dad. What would have been his freshman year of college was spent getting ready to ship out to the Pacific to fight in a war. This is not the first time young people have had their lives completely upended by world-changing events. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers never saw their babies for months and months. It was terrible, but the world didn’t come to an end forever. As far as young children are concerned, people who settled the prairies lived miles from other families, and somehow they grew up mostly normal. Human beings are resilient.

I was just thinking of this perspective myself. This is not the first time people have had their lives interrupted. This current disruption has actually been a lot more comfortable than a lot of generations have experienced. There have been wars, genocides, pandemics, famines, natural disasters, general hardships, etc. that have paused (and ended) lives throughout human history - and yet we persevere. This could have been a whole lot worse for young people. I think we are so spoiled, that any kind of inconvenience, simply just not getting to do whatever the hell we want for a year, becomes a major psychological trauma.

I do feel bad for people. It DOES suck to have to live with restrictions (although some people never bothered, but just whined at the idea of it and kept on living normally) when you are used to freedom and convenience. It just feels a lot harder than it actually is. It's all in the perspective. Our ancestors would probably roll their eyes at us. People WILL bounce back after this is over. This is not the worst thing to happen to humanity.

lokihen wrote: »

Woohoo! Just got my first dose. This was also the first time I've been inside a store in a year; very strange feeling. I got to do lots of observing because the pharmacist was running 15 minutes behind plus the 15 minutes waiting after. Store employees doing an amazing job keeping their masks on properly (but they do have a dragon-lady for a boss). Customers not so great; lots maskless and exposed noses.

I'm still paranoid wearing a P100 and as soon as I got home all clothes into the laundry and me in the shower. I can just imagine catching it now and how much regret I'd feel.

I did overhear someone asking about appointments and told all were full for the vaccine they had received but to keep checking the website.

I got my vaccine about 2 weeks ago in a Walgreens. I had not stepped in a store in a year. It did feel weird. Still avoiding stores for now.

hipari wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I couldn't imagine being in my early to mid 20s right now when my entire life revolved around social interactions...dating, parties, bars and clubs, etc. I'm honestly not sure what my reaction would have been if I was 22 years old or something and I was told I just needed to stay home for a year + and not see or gather with my friends.

I graduated university in 2019, so less than a year before covid. I have a lot of friends who are still studying, just graduated high school etc., and I’m still pretty active in my student community (in supporting senior/alumni roles). It breaks my heart to see especially those who graduated high school last spring try to find their place. All those once-in-a-lifetime experiences like high school graduation and freshman year at university were destroyed, and the critical time to find new friends and adult social circles is missing. They either didn’t get to move out from their parents’ homes as planned, or they’re stuck in tiny student housing instead of meeting people in classes, cafeterias, parties and student events. They are expected to stay home in their bedrooms looking at laptops all day, not meeting new people and making connections that are crucial as both friendships and career networks.

Apart from individual level, I’m also genuinely concerned for the amount of (student) culture that disappears from society due to covid. Of course, some traditions would have eventually died anyway, but some have lasted generations and generations (seriously, my most important student community is 368 years old) and are dependent on new student generations adopting those traditions and customs to pass them on. New traditions will grow eventually, but my heart breaks for the students who anticipated being introduced to those traditions and their time being stolen away from them, as well as the communities whose traditions will be lost because 2 years is enough of a gap for the chain of student generations to break and start losing its collective memory.

Those traditions are amazing, and at least for me were a key part in forming my student experience (and also a good reason why it took me 6 years to graduate and what keeps me still involved). There are so many traditions that simply don’t exist outside student societies and communities. I’m especially hurting for May Day celebrations, which are a huge deal here and celebrated nationally by pretty much everyone, especially college-educated people. It’s big enough that I’ve participated in the traditions since I was a baby, my parents and all their friends still participate and show up for the huge city-wide picnics, and I remember my grandparents showing up well into their 70s. While the main thing is commonly shared and people experience it with their families starting very young, each student community has their own specific traditions that are hugely important and that current freshmen and sophomores are missing out on, and will never get back because May Day traditionally has initiation rites that mark the passing from freshmen to full members of those communities. You can always postpone settling down and spend a couple of extra years partying post-covid if that’s your thing, but traditions and one-time-things like that you can’t get back.

It sucks, I agree. But getting frustrated and fatigued and bored isn’t the answer. We’re not the ones in control here, the virus is, because of our inconsistency on moderating our behaviors.

We go into lockdown, things get better. We chomp at the bit to get out, we do, things get worse again. I’m afraid we will find ourselves trapped in this terrible cycle for a long time if we can’t become OK sacrificing these one-of-a-kind things. No prom or graduation? Awful. Spending your first year of college with no cool events, sports, or late-night bonding with new friends? Terrible. Losing loved ones to a virus? Tragic and unspeakable. For me, there’s no comparison. And I can see how that view might not translate. And my students really are such good kids. They truly are. And even they are fraying at the edges. More than anything, I don’t want the message to hit home because the virus has. I know too many people who were ambivalent about the virus and angry at the restrictions until they were personally affected. What happened to our empathy?

I’m tired and frustrated, too. And when I get the urge to run a little amok, I think of that Maine wedding last August. 55 people attended. 177 people known infected as a result. 7 deaths, none of whom attended the wedding. 😢

From my own experience, 4 or 5 college students go apartment hunting for next year at the end of January. One of them was COVID positive and asymptomatic. From that one day there were 7 or 8 positives and almost 60 people quarantined just on campus. (We have a strict protocol for quarantine when exposed on campus). That doesn’t include any non-students with whom they came into contact while out that day. And because they went looking on a Friday and weren’t tested again until the following Monday (regular weekly test), and several of the positives had gone home that weekend ... 😱😱😱

Athijade wrote: »

So Indiana is going to open vaccines to all 16+ at the end of the month. Not that I expect to be able to get my shot anytime soon because the system will be overwhelmed. As soon as I can get it though, I will.

I think that is the most helpful thing any of us can do. When you get a chance, take the vaccine. Don't second-guess the people orchestrating the distribution. When they say it is your time, whether or not you think others are more deserving, just do what they say as expeditiously as practical. Most of us are not privy to the micro-shifts in supply and demand so we should just cooperate -promptly- with the decision makers who are.

hipari wrote: »

Psychgrrl wrote: »

hipari wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I couldn't imagine being in my early to mid 20s right now when my entire life revolved around social interactions...dating, parties, bars and clubs, etc. I'm honestly not sure what my reaction would have been if I was 22 years old or something and I was told I just needed to stay home for a year + and not see or gather with my friends.

I graduated university in 2019, so less than a year before covid. I have a lot of friends who are still studying, just graduated high school etc., and I’m still pretty active in my student community (in supporting senior/alumni roles). It breaks my heart to see especially those who graduated high school last spring try to find their place. All those once-in-a-lifetime experiences like high school graduation and freshman year at university were destroyed, and the critical time to find new friends and adult social circles is missing. They either didn’t get to move out from their parents’ homes as planned, or they’re stuck in tiny student housing instead of meeting people in classes, cafeterias, parties and student events. They are expected to stay home in their bedrooms looking at laptops all day, not meeting new people and making connections that are crucial as both friendships and career networks.

Apart from individual level, I’m also genuinely concerned for the amount of (student) culture that disappears from society due to covid. Of course, some traditions would have eventually died anyway, but some have lasted generations and generations (seriously, my most important student community is 368 years old) and are dependent on new student generations adopting those traditions and customs to pass them on. New traditions will grow eventually, but my heart breaks for the students who anticipated being introduced to those traditions and their time being stolen away from them, as well as the communities whose traditions will be lost because 2 years is enough of a gap for the chain of student generations to break and start losing its collective memory.

Those traditions are amazing, and at least for me were a key part in forming my student experience (and also a good reason why it took me 6 years to graduate and what keeps me still involved). There are so many traditions that simply don’t exist outside student societies and communities. I’m especially hurting for May Day celebrations, which are a huge deal here and celebrated nationally by pretty much everyone, especially college-educated people. It’s big enough that I’ve participated in the traditions since I was a baby, my parents and all their friends still participate and show up for the huge city-wide picnics, and I remember my grandparents showing up well into their 70s. While the main thing is commonly shared and people experience it with their families starting very young, each student community has their own specific traditions that are hugely important and that current freshmen and sophomores are missing out on, and will never get back because May Day traditionally has initiation rites that mark the passing from freshmen to full members of those communities. You can always postpone settling down and spend a couple of extra years partying post-covid if that’s your thing, but traditions and one-time-things like that you can’t get back.

It sucks, I agree. But getting frustrated and fatigued and bored isn’t the answer. We’re not the ones in control here, the virus is, because of our inconsistency on moderating our behaviors.

We go into lockdown, things get better. We chomp at the bit to get out, we do, things get worse again. I’m afraid we will find ourselves trapped in this terrible cycle for a long time if we can’t become OK sacrificing these one-of-a-kind things. No prom or graduation? Awful. Spending your first year of college with no cool events, sports, or late-night bonding with new friends? Terrible. Losing loved ones to a virus? Tragic and unspeakable. For me, there’s no comparison. And I can see how that view might not translate. And my students really are such good kids. They truly are. And even they are fraying at the edges. More than anything, I don’t want the message to hit home because the virus has. I know too many people who were ambivalent about the virus and angry at the restrictions until they were personally affected. What happened to our empathy?

I’m tired and frustrated, too. And when I get the urge to run a little amok, I think of that Maine wedding last August. 55 people attended. 177 people known infected as a result. 7 deaths, none of whom attended the wedding. 😢

From my own experience, 4 or 5 college students go apartment hunting for next year at the end of January. One of them was COVID positive and asymptomatic. From that one day there were 7 or 8 positives and almost 60 people quarantined just on campus. (We have a strict protocol for quarantine when exposed on campus). That doesn’t include any non-students with whom they came into contact while out that day. And because they went looking on a Friday and weren’t tested again until the following Monday (regular weekly test), and several of the positives had gone home that weekend ... 😱😱😱

I absolutely agree that allowing exceptions and thinking things don’t count is not the answer. I do wish, however, that we as a society would express more empathy to those who have it extra hard, not just financially or medically, but also socially and mentally. The last thing we need is condescending or telling people off as young and stupid, with the response of masses thinking ”well F you, too” and gathering to party as an unconscious protest because we refused to understand their pain or where they’re coming from in this situation. A lot of things can be helped through open, honest and mature communication and empathy.

I’m tired and frustrated too. I’m also the one having to endlessly enforce and advise covid protocols at work, and whenever I get the urge to do something a little reckless or not follow guidelines, I ask myself what I’d tell my colleagues if they asked for my advise or opinion in that particular situation. Usually, what I would tell them is along the lines of ”I know it sucks, but you have to get tested/quarantine/mask up/(insert applicable advise here), there’s no way around it”. After realising my own answer, it’s a lot easier to do the responsible thing.

hipari wrote: »

Psychgrrl wrote: »

hipari wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I couldn't imagine being in my early to mid 20s right now when my entire life revolved around social interactions...dating, parties, bars and clubs, etc. I'm honestly not sure what my reaction would have been if I was 22 years old or something and I was told I just needed to stay home for a year + and not see or gather with my friends.

I graduated university in 2019, so less than a year before covid. I have a lot of friends who are still studying, just graduated high school etc., and I’m still pretty active in my student community (in supporting senior/alumni roles). It breaks my heart to see especially those who graduated high school last spring try to find their place. All those once-in-a-lifetime experiences like high school graduation and freshman year at university were destroyed, and the critical time to find new friends and adult social circles is missing. They either didn’t get to move out from their parents’ homes as planned, or they’re stuck in tiny student housing instead of meeting people in classes, cafeterias, parties and student events. They are expected to stay home in their bedrooms looking at laptops all day, not meeting new people and making connections that are crucial as both friendships and career networks.

Apart from individual level, I’m also genuinely concerned for the amount of (student) culture that disappears from society due to covid. Of course, some traditions would have eventually died anyway, but some have lasted generations and generations (seriously, my most important student community is 368 years old) and are dependent on new student generations adopting those traditions and customs to pass them on. New traditions will grow eventually, but my heart breaks for the students who anticipated being introduced to those traditions and their time being stolen away from them, as well as the communities whose traditions will be lost because 2 years is enough of a gap for the chain of student generations to break and start losing its collective memory.

Those traditions are amazing, and at least for me were a key part in forming my student experience (and also a good reason why it took me 6 years to graduate and what keeps me still involved). There are so many traditions that simply don’t exist outside student societies and communities. I’m especially hurting for May Day celebrations, which are a huge deal here and celebrated nationally by pretty much everyone, especially college-educated people. It’s big enough that I’ve participated in the traditions since I was a baby, my parents and all their friends still participate and show up for the huge city-wide picnics, and I remember my grandparents showing up well into their 70s. While the main thing is commonly shared and people experience it with their families starting very young, each student community has their own specific traditions that are hugely important and that current freshmen and sophomores are missing out on, and will never get back because May Day traditionally has initiation rites that mark the passing from freshmen to full members of those communities. You can always postpone settling down and spend a couple of extra years partying post-covid if that’s your thing, but traditions and one-time-things like that you can’t get back.

It sucks, I agree. But getting frustrated and fatigued and bored isn’t the answer. We’re not the ones in control here, the virus is, because of our inconsistency on moderating our behaviors.

We go into lockdown, things get better. We chomp at the bit to get out, we do, things get worse again. I’m afraid we will find ourselves trapped in this terrible cycle for a long time if we can’t become OK sacrificing these one-of-a-kind things. No prom or graduation? Awful. Spending your first year of college with no cool events, sports, or late-night bonding with new friends? Terrible. Losing loved ones to a virus? Tragic and unspeakable. For me, there’s no comparison. And I can see how that view might not translate. And my students really are such good kids. They truly are. And even they are fraying at the edges. More than anything, I don’t want the message to hit home because the virus has. I know too many people who were ambivalent about the virus and angry at the restrictions until they were personally affected. What happened to our empathy?

I’m tired and frustrated, too. And when I get the urge to run a little amok, I think of that Maine wedding last August. 55 people attended. 177 people known infected as a result. 7 deaths, none of whom attended the wedding. 😢

From my own experience, 4 or 5 college students go apartment hunting for next year at the end of January. One of them was COVID positive and asymptomatic. From that one day there were 7 or 8 positives and almost 60 people quarantined just on campus. (We have a strict protocol for quarantine when exposed on campus). That doesn’t include any non-students with whom they came into contact while out that day. And because they went looking on a Friday and weren’t tested again until the following Monday (regular weekly test), and several of the positives had gone home that weekend ... 😱😱😱

I absolutely agree that allowing exceptions and thinking things don’t count is not the answer. I do wish, however, that we as a society would express more empathy to those who have it extra hard, not just financially or medically, but also socially and mentally. The last thing we need is condescending or telling people off as young and stupid, with the response of masses thinking ”well F you, too” and gathering to party as an unconscious protest because we refused to understand their pain or where they’re coming from in this situation. A lot of things can be helped through open, honest and mature communication and empathy.

I’m tired and frustrated too. I’m also the one having to endlessly enforce and advise covid protocols at work, and whenever I get the urge to do something a little reckless or not follow guidelines, I ask myself what I’d tell my colleagues if they asked for my advise or opinion in that particular situation. Usually, what I would tell them is along the lines of ”I know it sucks, but you have to get tested/quarantine/mask up/(insert applicable advise here), there’s no way around it”. After realising my own answer, it’s a lot easier to do the responsible thing.

OK, so the pics we see lately are Spring-breakers, obviously young people. But that's just one example of stupidity. Personally, I don't see this as a "young people problem." When I look around, I see spoiled people of ALL ages being reckless, selfish and stupid. In fact, the youth in my area are just as likely to be following protocol as the adults. Most young people don't actually go to these massive Spring Break festivals. That would be tens of millions, not just thousands, swarming Florida beaches. They are not particularly reckless, compared to others. But clearly, enough are that they may be endangering others.

I personally know multiple 65+ people who have been actively traveling for months, refusing to mask, brushing off COVID-19 as nothing more than a cold. It's not an age thing. When an adult does something stupid and selfish, we say that individual is stupid and selfish. When a young person does something stupid and selfish, we say young people are stupid and selfish. We love to generalize and stereotype.

So when I say WE are a spoiled group of people that aren't used to the hardships that past generations have gone through (and therefore are traumatized by slight inconveniences) I mean WE. I don't mean young people. I mean ALL the people, from the Boomers on down the line. Young people in that transitional stage (late teens/early twenties) probably are having the hardest time. But like all those before us who have faced adversity, WE will survive. It sucks but it could be so much worse. It's not the end of the world to wear a mask and social distance for a year or two.

I think that this is going to be complicated, when it comes to effects on children and young adults. It's also going to be very individual, IMO.

Yes, some have missed out on unique life events and milestones in the form we experienced, which can be a loss. They've also had a set of life experiences many of us didn't: Spending more time in the family, spending more time on their own.

For some there will have been positive outcomes of those challenges. Locally, some K-12 schools have found that a certain subset of students (various ages) have thrived in a lower-social context, reported themselves happier, are achieving more academically. (Personally, I experienced junior high & high school very negatively, so I can understand this, for some.) Some of those schools plan to continue offering a remote or partly-remote option for students who prefer it, or who do better with it.

As someone who's low-social by nature, I see the value of being forced to cope with social context, because that will be really important for long-term thriving. As someone who was an only child, growing up in the country, I also saw (in college and beyond) that some people never needed to find ways to enjoy being alone, and were poorer for that lack of experience.

Adults' "oh the horror" reactions will inevitably influence how young people see this period of time. The young people have possibly lost things, potentially gained things, objectively speaking, IMO. Like I said, I think it's going to be individual

I'm not saying this hasn't had some bad effects: Obviously, it has. But our nostalgia need not shape others' experience, and it could be interesting to see what young people make of this experience, how they build on it, how it shapes their futures.

P.S. Some young people probably truly *are* suffering, in the most absolute sense: In person school is how some cases of child abuse get identified and dealt with, in normal times.

jenilla1 wrote: »

hipari wrote: »

Psychgrrl wrote: »

hipari wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I couldn't imagine being in my early to mid 20s right now when my entire life revolved around social interactions...dating, parties, bars and clubs, etc. I'm honestly not sure what my reaction would have been if I was 22 years old or something and I was told I just needed to stay home for a year + and not see or gather with my friends.

I graduated university in 2019, so less than a year before covid. I have a lot of friends who are still studying, just graduated high school etc., and I’m still pretty active in my student community (in supporting senior/alumni roles). It breaks my heart to see especially those who graduated high school last spring try to find their place. All those once-in-a-lifetime experiences like high school graduation and freshman year at university were destroyed, and the critical time to find new friends and adult social circles is missing. They either didn’t get to move out from their parents’ homes as planned, or they’re stuck in tiny student housing instead of meeting people in classes, cafeterias, parties and student events. They are expected to stay home in their bedrooms looking at laptops all day, not meeting new people and making connections that are crucial as both friendships and career networks.

Apart from individual level, I’m also genuinely concerned for the amount of (student) culture that disappears from society due to covid. Of course, some traditions would have eventually died anyway, but some have lasted generations and generations (seriously, my most important student community is 368 years old) and are dependent on new student generations adopting those traditions and customs to pass them on. New traditions will grow eventually, but my heart breaks for the students who anticipated being introduced to those traditions and their time being stolen away from them, as well as the communities whose traditions will be lost because 2 years is enough of a gap for the chain of student generations to break and start losing its collective memory.

Those traditions are amazing, and at least for me were a key part in forming my student experience (and also a good reason why it took me 6 years to graduate and what keeps me still involved). There are so many traditions that simply don’t exist outside student societies and communities. I’m especially hurting for May Day celebrations, which are a huge deal here and celebrated nationally by pretty much everyone, especially college-educated people. It’s big enough that I’ve participated in the traditions since I was a baby, my parents and all their friends still participate and show up for the huge city-wide picnics, and I remember my grandparents showing up well into their 70s. While the main thing is commonly shared and people experience it with their families starting very young, each student community has their own specific traditions that are hugely important and that current freshmen and sophomores are missing out on, and will never get back because May Day traditionally has initiation rites that mark the passing from freshmen to full members of those communities. You can always postpone settling down and spend a couple of extra years partying post-covid if that’s your thing, but traditions and one-time-things like that you can’t get back.

It sucks, I agree. But getting frustrated and fatigued and bored isn’t the answer. We’re not the ones in control here, the virus is, because of our inconsistency on moderating our behaviors.

We go into lockdown, things get better. We chomp at the bit to get out, we do, things get worse again. I’m afraid we will find ourselves trapped in this terrible cycle for a long time if we can’t become OK sacrificing these one-of-a-kind things. No prom or graduation? Awful. Spending your first year of college with no cool events, sports, or late-night bonding with new friends? Terrible. Losing loved ones to a virus? Tragic and unspeakable. For me, there’s no comparison. And I can see how that view might not translate. And my students really are such good kids. They truly are. And even they are fraying at the edges. More than anything, I don’t want the message to hit home because the virus has. I know too many people who were ambivalent about the virus and angry at the restrictions until they were personally affected. What happened to our empathy?

I’m tired and frustrated, too. And when I get the urge to run a little amok, I think of that Maine wedding last August. 55 people attended. 177 people known infected as a result. 7 deaths, none of whom attended the wedding. 😢

From my own experience, 4 or 5 college students go apartment hunting for next year at the end of January. One of them was COVID positive and asymptomatic. From that one day there were 7 or 8 positives and almost 60 people quarantined just on campus. (We have a strict protocol for quarantine when exposed on campus). That doesn’t include any non-students with whom they came into contact while out that day. And because they went looking on a Friday and weren’t tested again until the following Monday (regular weekly test), and several of the positives had gone home that weekend ... 😱😱😱

I absolutely agree that allowing exceptions and thinking things don’t count is not the answer. I do wish, however, that we as a society would express more empathy to those who have it extra hard, not just financially or medically, but also socially and mentally. The last thing we need is condescending or telling people off as young and stupid, with the response of masses thinking ”well F you, too” and gathering to party as an unconscious protest because we refused to understand their pain or where they’re coming from in this situation. A lot of things can be helped through open, honest and mature communication and empathy.

I’m tired and frustrated too. I’m also the one having to endlessly enforce and advise covid protocols at work, and whenever I get the urge to do something a little reckless or not follow guidelines, I ask myself what I’d tell my colleagues if they asked for my advise or opinion in that particular situation. Usually, what I would tell them is along the lines of ”I know it sucks, but you have to get tested/quarantine/mask up/(insert applicable advise here), there’s no way around it”. After realising my own answer, it’s a lot easier to do the responsible thing.

hipari wrote: »

Psychgrrl wrote: »

hipari wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I couldn't imagine being in my early to mid 20s right now when my entire life revolved around social interactions...dating, parties, bars and clubs, etc. I'm honestly not sure what my reaction would have been if I was 22 years old or something and I was told I just needed to stay home for a year + and not see or gather with my friends.

I graduated university in 2019, so less than a year before covid. I have a lot of friends who are still studying, just graduated high school etc., and I’m still pretty active in my student community (in supporting senior/alumni roles). It breaks my heart to see especially those who graduated high school last spring try to find their place. All those once-in-a-lifetime experiences like high school graduation and freshman year at university were destroyed, and the critical time to find new friends and adult social circles is missing. They either didn’t get to move out from their parents’ homes as planned, or they’re stuck in tiny student housing instead of meeting people in classes, cafeterias, parties and student events. They are expected to stay home in their bedrooms looking at laptops all day, not meeting new people and making connections that are crucial as both friendships and career networks.

Apart from individual level, I’m also genuinely concerned for the amount of (student) culture that disappears from society due to covid. Of course, some traditions would have eventually died anyway, but some have lasted generations and generations (seriously, my most important student community is 368 years old) and are dependent on new student generations adopting those traditions and customs to pass them on. New traditions will grow eventually, but my heart breaks for the students who anticipated being introduced to those traditions and their time being stolen away from them, as well as the communities whose traditions will be lost because 2 years is enough of a gap for the chain of student generations to break and start losing its collective memory.

Those traditions are amazing, and at least for me were a key part in forming my student experience (and also a good reason why it took me 6 years to graduate and what keeps me still involved). There are so many traditions that simply don’t exist outside student societies and communities. I’m especially hurting for May Day celebrations, which are a huge deal here and celebrated nationally by pretty much everyone, especially college-educated people. It’s big enough that I’ve participated in the traditions since I was a baby, my parents and all their friends still participate and show up for the huge city-wide picnics, and I remember my grandparents showing up well into their 70s. While the main thing is commonly shared and people experience it with their families starting very young, each student community has their own specific traditions that are hugely important and that current freshmen and sophomores are missing out on, and will never get back because May Day traditionally has initiation rites that mark the passing from freshmen to full members of those communities. You can always postpone settling down and spend a couple of extra years partying post-covid if that’s your thing, but traditions and one-time-things like that you can’t get back.

It sucks, I agree. But getting frustrated and fatigued and bored isn’t the answer. We’re not the ones in control here, the virus is, because of our inconsistency on moderating our behaviors.

We go into lockdown, things get better. We chomp at the bit to get out, we do, things get worse again. I’m afraid we will find ourselves trapped in this terrible cycle for a long time if we can’t become OK sacrificing these one-of-a-kind things. No prom or graduation? Awful. Spending your first year of college with no cool events, sports, or late-night bonding with new friends? Terrible. Losing loved ones to a virus? Tragic and unspeakable. For me, there’s no comparison. And I can see how that view might not translate. And my students really are such good kids. They truly are. And even they are fraying at the edges. More than anything, I don’t want the message to hit home because the virus has. I know too many people who were ambivalent about the virus and angry at the restrictions until they were personally affected. What happened to our empathy?

I’m tired and frustrated, too. And when I get the urge to run a little amok, I think of that Maine wedding last August. 55 people attended. 177 people known infected as a result. 7 deaths, none of whom attended the wedding. 😢

From my own experience, 4 or 5 college students go apartment hunting for next year at the end of January. One of them was COVID positive and asymptomatic. From that one day there were 7 or 8 positives and almost 60 people quarantined just on campus. (We have a strict protocol for quarantine when exposed on campus). That doesn’t include any non-students with whom they came into contact while out that day. And because they went looking on a Friday and weren’t tested again until the following Monday (regular weekly test), and several of the positives had gone home that weekend ... 😱😱😱

I absolutely agree that allowing exceptions and thinking things don’t count is not the answer. I do wish, however, that we as a society would express more empathy to those who have it extra hard, not just financially or medically, but also socially and mentally. The last thing we need is condescending or telling people off as young and stupid, with the response of masses thinking ”well F you, too” and gathering to party as an unconscious protest because we refused to understand their pain or where they’re coming from in this situation. A lot of things can be helped through open, honest and mature communication and empathy.

I’m tired and frustrated too. I’m also the one having to endlessly enforce and advise covid protocols at work, and whenever I get the urge to do something a little reckless or not follow guidelines, I ask myself what I’d tell my colleagues if they asked for my advise or opinion in that particular situation. Usually, what I would tell them is along the lines of ”I know it sucks, but you have to get tested/quarantine/mask up/(insert applicable advise here), there’s no way around it”. After realising my own answer, it’s a lot easier to do the responsible thing.

OK, so the pics we see lately are Spring-breakers, obviously young people. But that's just one example of stupidity. Personally, I don't see this as a "young people problem." When I look around, I see spoiled people of ALL ages being reckless, selfish and stupid. In fact, the youth in my area are just as likely to be following protocol as the adults. Most young people don't actually go to these massive Spring Break festivals. That would be tens of millions, not just thousands, swarming Florida beaches. They are not particularly reckless, compared to others. But clearly, enough are that they may be endangering others.

I personally know multiple 65+ people who have been actively traveling for months, refusing to mask, brushing off COVID-19 as nothing more than a cold. It's not an age thing. When an adult does something stupid and selfish, we say that individual is stupid and selfish. When a young person does something stupid and selfish, we say young people are stupid and selfish. We love to generalize and stereotype.

So when I say WE are a spoiled group of people that aren't used to the hardships that past generations have gone through (and therefore are traumatized by slight inconveniences) I mean WE. I don't mean young people. I mean ALL the people, from the Boomers on down the line. Young people in that transitional stage (late teens/early twenties) probably are having the hardest time. But like all those before us who have faced adversity, WE will survive. It sucks but it could be so much worse. It's not the end of the world to wear a mask and social distance for a year or two.

And the stupidity isn’t limited to those crazy spring breakers. Here in Southern California we’ve got a few pockets of anti-science/COVID is a hoax people. Someone who said ventilators kill people and is anti-all COVID restrictions/anti-vax was elected to the Huntington Beach city council! (MMA fighter, Tito-something, methinks.) Protestors blocked the Dodger Stadium vaccination site a few weeks ago and shut it down for a few hours.

I truly struggle with the lack of community responsibility some folks have. This is a contagious disease, not something that can’t be passed from person to person. Or to block vaccination sites and keep people who want one from getting it. (The signs said they were trying to “save the sheeple.”) Or saying it’s a hoax and the treatments that save lives actually make people worse. I’m sure the loved ones of the 500,000+ people in the US who’ve died would disagree about the hoax part. 😕

SModa61 wrote: »

hipari wrote: »

Here in Finland the discussion around both infection surges and rule-breakers has been very much about young people in the media. There’s currently a big surge that’s being traced to a student dorm with shared kitchens - obviously the virus will spread there if people are confined in and can’t leave, they still have to use the shared kitchens to prepare the food they eat. Students are still called reckless because they, well, eat while quarantining. Bars were closed a couple months ago again, and it was largely blamed in the media on ”reckless 20-somethings who force us to not have nice things”. Even in the USA-centric media the discussion has lately been dominated by spring breakers. Then again, when other age groups do something irresponsible, they are allowed. Last week there was a large anti-restriction protest here (mostly middle-aged people who identify with the political right, to say nicely) that broke several laws and restrictions about how many people can gather, wearing masks etc., and the protest was allowed to go on without police interference. About two years ago there was a large climate protest (mostly young people) that broke zero laws or restrictions, but was broken up by police and some of the protestors were injured due to violence.

I do think some (not all) are definitely suffering because of the restrictions. For many young people, their most important social circles are outside the home. Young people also don’t typically have ”family rooms”, at least not here. Instead, many live alone in tiny apartments, trying to make it through the day/month/year without social interactions or money (since their jobs are typically in the service industry) while the media calls them reckless and stupid because the ones that do -unjustly- take matters into their own hands ruin it for everyone.

Humans are social animals, socializing with others tends to be important to us. Mental health is important too and suffering isn’t limited to physical pain. My own alma mater completed their study in December and up to 60% of all students are experiencing burnout symptoms. The university has about 35 000 students, 60% of that is 21 000. That’s a big number of students with mental health issues for just one university, and burnout symptoms tend to linger and cause problems later in life.

I’m absolutely not saying that students and 20-somethings are somehow special snowflakes. I’m saying they’re treated unfairly in the media and their circumstances and suffering are not taken seriously, at least compared to many other demographic groups.

Interesting about your thought that the young are being blamed. I am currently in a Florida home (since mid-feb) and was reading something about the Florida surges yesterday due to spring breakers. What I found odd is that the article noted that the spring breakers were “Causing a surge in 24-49 years olds”. Huh? I don’t know many 24-49 year old partying college kids!

Here there are saying there are recent increases in groups from 18-49 (and broken down to 18-29, 30-39, and 40-49). Nothing was said about spring breakers in the piece I am referencing, and of course people over 65 are vaccinated at a much greater rate here, which explains part of this.

As a general comment, I don't think it makes much sense to extrapolate from Finland to the US or vice versa--we have and have had much more widespread spread, as I understand it, and also one of the big issue in the US is people traveling about (starting with Mardi Gras and then spring break stuff at the beginning of this) and gathering and bringing it back, and that's why people are (understandably) upset by the spring break stuff. I really don't see that as people being unfair to the kids or whatever. I can't speak to Finland, but if there are specific isolated clusters that seem traceable to gathering by college kids in a country that's largely had low spread, then I can see why they would be discussed -- similar to how in Australia the source of the occasional clusters are identified and a matter for public policy reaction.

The wife and I both have scheduled our Pfizer shots tomorrow and have also scheduled the second shots as well. I honestly didn't anticipate getting it for a few months, so I'm happy to be getting it so soon.

My daughter is doing better now. Took a serious turn for the worse for a while (her emotional state, not physical). Honestly, that's what's been occupying my time and why I haven't been on here much. Been very, very hard -- yes, on me, but even more so on my wife and her.

I'm worried I'll be an outlier with any vaccination. I will still get one and follow scientifically based suggestions.