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the necessity of working out and impacts of yoga
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Posts: 1,920 MFP Staff
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This discussion was created from replies split from: I need your advice.
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I guess I got a lot of disagreements on that comment. I like to workout, and at the gym I see the regular folk come in and casually do a few things with no effort and they wonder why they haven't lost any weight.
I'm 68 5' 8" 148lbs on zero meds, daily I do my tai chi forms for 30 mins, go to 45 mins of hot yoga twice a week and the gym 45 mins 5 days a week, walk almost everyday at least 90 mins on nature trails.
One thing I did once when doing kundalini yoga was a 5 day melon cleanse, starts with light vegan diet for 3 days then the melon diet and water, then light vegan for 3 days, I don't know what I was losing but weight lose was 2lbs a day 10lbs total.
I'm retired but worked for a builder as general labourer and the last 6 months was vegan, I ate in the site trailer with my foreman and my diet got his interest, he was very much overweight. I prepped all my food the night before were as he always went out to fast food stuff and pop. We talked a lot about my fitness and diet. I visited the office probably a year later to say hi when my foreman walks in. He lost 100lbs he sez I inspired him so he got his diet together, went to the gym every morning before work and did intermittent fasting
Years ago (1974) I was doing Sivananda yoga and a lady there told the teacher she had been going to weight watchers for 3 years with little success. Our teacher told her to everyday do the shoulderstand, plough and fish pose, hold each pose for 10 mins. She did and 6 weeks later had lost 60lbs. The 3 poses are ones that stimulate the thyroid and balance your weight.
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I guess I got a lot of disagreements on that comment. I like to workout, and at the gym I see the regular folk come in and casually do a few things with no effort and they wonder why they haven't lost any weight.
I'm 68 5' 8" 148lbs on zero meds, daily I do my tai chi forms for 30 mins, go to 45 mins of hot yoga twice a week and the gym 45 mins 5 days a week, walk almost everyday at least 90 mins on nature trails.
One thing I did once when doing kundalini yoga was a 5 day melon cleanse, starts with light vegan diet for 3 days then the melon diet and water, then light vegan for 3 days, I don't know what I was losing but weight lose was 2lbs a day 10lbs total.
I'm retired but worked for a builder as general labourer and the last 6 months was vegan, I ate in the site trailer with my foreman and my diet got his interest, he was very much overweight. I prepped all my food the night before were as he always went out to fast food stuff and pop. We talked a lot about my fitness and diet. I visited the office probably a year later to say hi when my foreman walks in. He lost 100lbs he sez I inspired him so he got his diet together, went to the gym every morning before work and did intermittent fasting
Years ago (1974) I was doing Sivananda yoga and a lady there told the teacher she had been going to weight watchers for 3 years with little success. Our teacher told her to everyday do the shoulderstand, plough and fish pose, hold each pose for 10 mins. She did and 6 weeks later had lost 60lbs. The 3 poses are ones that stimulate the thyroid and balance your weight.
With all due respect, there are plenty of ridiculously unhealthy or generally unapplicable examples and advise in this comment. I’m glad you enjoy your routine, though.
The people at the gym who wondered about not losing weight weren’t losing weight becacuse they weren’t creating a calorie deficit. Training hard, gym, or any kind of exercise is not a requirement for weight loss although they have some great health benefits.
All kinds of cleanses are unnecessary and usually medically dangerous. Your body does not need a cleanse, it has liver and kidneys to do that. If they fail, you need a hospital instead of a cleanse. 2lbs a day is not a healthy rate for weight loss.
Vegan is great for some people and many enjoy it for a variety of different reasons (health, ethical, climate considerations etc.), but losing weight by going vegan is just one of many possible ways of creating a calorie deficit. One does not have to be vegan to lose weight, and you don’t automatically lose weight by going vegan.
60lbs in 6 weeks is ridiculously unhealthy, unless there are special circumstances (a twin/triplet birth or amputation come to mind, mostly). Yoga is also not necessary for weight loss and doesn’t cause any weight loss. Again, some enjoy yoga and may find the mindfulness and exercise helps them maintain a consistent calorie deficit, but none of that is caused by yoga and poses that balance your weight do not exist, unless you count balancing poses where you literally balance your body weight on your head or one leg or something like that.
To sum it up, there are plenty of potentially helpful tools mentioned here: vegan diet, yoga, gym training, intermittent fasting, walking and tai chi can all be helpful and healthy parts of one’s weight loss. None of them make or break a weight loss plan.
Cleanses and losing 2lbs/day or 10lbs/week for an extended period of time are dangerously unhealthy and should not be attempted unless closely supervised by competent specialized medical staff. Even if one of us internet strangers happened to be a licensed medical professional, it wouldn’t count as we don’t have patient records, a patient relationship or sufficient supervision.21 -
The woman who lost the 60lbs freaked out and quit yoga thinking it was something like dealing with the devil.
The cleanse I did was something I gave a try coz of doing the yoga group, not that I'd do that again or any other thing like that.
Anyway thanks.3 -
The routines mentioned could be part of a healthy lifestyle.
I would not be surprised if more than 50% of people who walk into a gym on January 2 neither lose weight nor gain fitness by December 31.
I am not sure that the intensity of exercise is at fault there.
I WOULD be, heck, I AM inspired by the fact that at 68 you're looking awesome and healthy and strong.
I don't doubt at all that your healthy home cooked meals and example may have sparked a transformation for that foreman, and if I were him I would feel a debt of gratitude to you.
However you seem to be conflating random facts with the causes of changes to the body.
Scratching my head every morning when I get up (think of a dog scratching their ear) does not cause weight loss, or weight maintenance, or even weight gain for that matter. (*Technically it may cause the reduction of weight by a portion of a gram due to hair falling off and an increase of TDEE by a Cal or two due to the extra hand movement and the subsequent healing of any micro abrasions of the scalp due to the scratching. Fat reduction? Not so much!)
Logging my food every day and wearing a Fitbit does not cause weight loss, and neither does the amount of movement I incorporate in my day.
What determines my weight is the long term balance of how many calories I truly manage to spend by my existence and sum total of activities over days/weeks/months vs how many calories I take in during the same time period.
Would standing on my head help?
Possibly; but I don't know if I would choose it as my primary exercise both because of inefficiency and because it reminds me a bit of a "silly" challenge I saw the other day that prescribes 5 minute ice cold showers or something.
Seems a bit like penance as opposed to a scientific experiment! 🤷🏻♂️
You look fricking amazing and are inspiring. But you still have to work on the science bit as to why things work the way they do. Correlation does not prove cause and effect
Also, please discuss any cleanses with your regulatory body licensed primary health care provider (aka general practitioner doctor or equivalent in your jurisdiction) before doing any cleanses.
Mind you I used to end up doing the watermelon and blueberry cleanse when fresh fruit first came in season; and that was NOT because I was trying to cleanse...
You know how a couple of portions of poo-berries are good for you, right? A 10lb flat of poo-berries? Maybe a bit too good for you!😹
And the multi poo did not make me non obese!🤷🏻♂️15 -
The term cleanse is used by that yoga group but to me I would think more of a fast. The 3 yoga poses stimulate the thyroid.
I just started with My Fitness Pal logger just to see what my macros was at, my weight has been steady at 148lbs for decades no matter what, according to MFP I'll be 142lbs in 5 weeks, I don't know if that's true.
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If I could do that while I was obese.... then I probably would not have been obese! Mind you @AnnPT77 could PROBABLY do something similar in a row boat while she was obese!!!!
The MFP database is crowd sourced and contains a lot of questionable entries. You have to be careful in selecting the entries and essentially double check them yourself. If you are primarily trying to figure out micro-nutrients you're intaking I would keep looking for a "cleaner" (albeit much more limited in scope and size) database. Out of the ones I've tried I am, to date, most impressed with cronometer--keeping in mind that it is a vastly less diverse database as compared to mfp.
<full disclosure: I couldn't do that now that I am not obese either... and you've got a good baker's dozen years on me!>3 -
I'm not sure how yoga poses would stimulate a shot thyroid to produce hormones again to be honest. Grow new cells? This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard, and I've heard some.
(disclaimer: I'm in a miserable mood)14 -
If I could do that while I was obese.... then I probably would not have been obese! Mind you @AnnPT77 could PROBABLY do something similar in a row boat while she was obese!!!!
The MFP database is crowd sourced and contains a lot of questionable entries. You have to be careful in selecting the entries and essentially double check them yourself. If you are primarily trying to figure out micro-nutrients you're intaking I would keep looking for a "cleaner" (albeit much more limited in scope and size) database. Out of the ones I've tried I am, to date, most impressed with cronometer--keeping in mind that it is a vastly less diverse database as compared to mfp.
<full disclosure: I couldn't do that now that I am not obese either... and you've got a good baker's dozen years on me!>
I wish. No. People do headstands in racing singles (12" wide at the waterline), viewable on YouTube, but I'm not one of them. Actually, at this point, I wouldn't attempt a headstand at all (combination of minor personal physical issues I have make it a bit more risky, if I haven't been doing it longer term, and I haven't). Yoga is quite wonderful. I've done it fat and thin. Tai Chi is also excellent, did a bunch of that for many years (late husband taught Tai Chi). Veganism is probably wonderful: I've never done it, but I've been vegetarian for 46+ years, thin to obese and back again.
No exercise I've ever done has ever created weight loss irrespective of calorie intake. I do think that yoga (of some types) can increase one's body awareness, possibly in ways that lead to better appetite management and weight management for some people, but I don't believe there are magical poses that guarantee a healthy bodyweight while eating more food calories than one burns, or that cure diverse health conditions.
No eating routine I've ever adopted has created weight loss irrespective of calorie intake, either. (FWIW, I doubt this is an example of "broken metabolism".)
I think it's great when people find their individual helpful path for weight management and fitness, and it's useful when they share their experiences as such. I appreciate it when everyone/anyone (me included) recognizes that others' experiences and needs may differ from our own; and that there is some scientific basis that makes anything that works, work. It's very human to see causation, where there's no objective evidence that it goes beyond correlation.4 -
I'm not sure how yoga poses would stimulate a shot thyroid to produce hormones again to be honest.
Who said shot thyroid, maybe lazy or over active.
https://youtu.be/qX9FSZJu4481 -
I'm not sure how yoga poses would stimulate a shot thyroid to produce hormones again to be honest.
Who said shot thyroid, maybe lazy or over active.
https://youtu.be/qX9FSZJu448
Most 'lazy' thyroid conditions are due to autoimmune thyroiditis. That means the body attacks the thyroid and destroys the hormone producing cells. The incidence rate is depending on country about 2-4% for women. And how would an overactive thyroid get even more active due to yoga?11 -
Not doing yoga, doing the 3 mentioned poses, will normalize the thyroid. Read the original post, a woman who went to my yoga studio was told to do these 3 poses everyday. She is the only person I've ever known to do this. There's an old saying "the proof of the pudding is in the eating".4
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Not doing yoga, doing the 3 mentioned poses, will normalize the thyroid. Read the original post, a woman who went to my yoga studio was told to do these 3 poses everyday. She is the only person I've ever known to do this. There's an old saying "the proof of the pudding is in the eating".
Another saying is "The plural of anecdote is not data."16 -
Yes and "The truest SUCCESS is but the development of self ~ Charles Atlas".
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What beliefs ? a quote isn't a belief, completely off topic ? but OK I'm out of this post.6
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The woman who lost the 60lbs freaked out and quit yoga thinking it was something like dealing with the devil.
For some folks the practice of yoga is incompatible with their faith tradition. People can do or not do whatever exercise they like, and there's no need to be condescending about it.
I hope the OP doesn't get too discouraged! I started out focusing on food only because I couldn't even begin to think of how and when I would exercise. Once I lost a little weight my mindset started to improve and I felt a little better, and I started working it in in small ways, and then a positive feedback loop started where I eat well --> I feel better so I can exercise --> I feel better --> I can eat well --> I feel better --> I keep up exercise, etc. Also improvements for sleep and the need to do the daily tasks of my life. Those are all huge benefits that have something to do with weight loss, but they're also good in and of themselves. I'm not sure I have to start at the loop in any particular place...what's important is that I get on it, at some point.5 -
penguinmama87 wrote: »The woman who lost the 60lbs freaked out and quit yoga thinking it was something like dealing with the devil.
For some folks the practice of yoga is incompatible with their faith tradition. People can do or not do whatever exercise they like, and there's no need to be condescending about it.
I hope the OP doesn't get too discouraged! I started out focusing on food only because I couldn't even begin to think of how and when I would exercise. Once I lost a little weight my mindset started to improve and I felt a little better, and I started working it in in small ways, and then a positive feedback loop started where I eat well --> I feel better so I can exercise --> I feel better --> I can eat well --> I feel better --> I keep up exercise, etc. Also improvements for sleep and the need to do the daily tasks of my life. Those are all huge benefits that have something to do with weight loss, but they're also good in and of themselves. I'm not sure I have to start at the loop in any particular place...what's important is that I get on it, at some point.
I mean, the truth is that some people do find yoga to be deeply spiritually meaningful so it only makes sense that some people would find that it doesn't sit well with another deeply held spiritual belief system (I'm not saying everyone finds this to be the case, just that it's possible). Insisting that yoga is a completely secular and non-spiritual practice that would never conflict with anything else is ignoring the real history and foundations of the practice.5 -
penguinmama87 wrote: »
I wasn't, they were her words to the teacher.
Nowadays there is Christian Yoga such as were I live is Yoga Faith. Yoga nowadays (in my City) is mostly for fitness and is a mix of flow Yoga, Pilates and Barre.
There's also Diamond Dallas Page Yoga https://youtu.be/qX9FSZJu448 which I've taken with a teacher.
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penguinmama87 wrote: »
I wasn't, they were her words to the teacher.
Nowadays there is Christian Yoga such as were I live is Yoga Faith. Yoga nowadays (in my City) is mostly for fitness and is a mix of flow Yoga, Pilates and Barre.
There's also Diamond Dallas Page Yoga https://youtu.be/qX9FSZJu448 which I've taken with a teacher.
Saying "she freaked out and quit" is what in particular strikes me as condescending. Yoga has a spiritual history, as @janejellyroll elaborated on. I might not phrase things as this lady did, but broadly I actually agree with her. The existence of "Christian yoga," to me, is an oxymoron. My particular tradition forbids engaging in spiritual practices of this kind, and has for centuries, and I comply with that directive, even if other people think it's antiquated or foolish for me to do so.
Other people can do as they like, of course, and I have nothing against stretching. I feel kind of silly now because this thread was split and since this is my perspective I would normally just avoid any thread or topic on yoga at all. My purpose was originally to comment on the original thread and I got sidetracked, so I apologize for that.6 -
Train like I want what?
Because what I want is a life I enjoy, in a body that facilitates that.
It isn't a 7 minute mile. It isn't being able to dead lift X amount of weight. It isn't a 6 pack or a 15% BMI.
It is a body that lets me have experiences I want to have and to do things I love - with people I love.
It's LIFE, not a competition. There is no finish line, except death. There is no medal for doing All The Right Things According To The Internet Expert.
There's just life and living and making the most you can from it.
If you LOVE fitness - yoga, weight lifting, training, whatever - then BY ALL MEANS GO FORTH. I compete in some sports and they're fun and added value in my life - because I *love* playing the game (and played them obese because again I love them for what they are and the experience of them). I have no problem understanding that other people would find that in body building competitions or marathons or yoga or anything else.
But for me? Weight loss and fitness facilitate the things I love in LIFE. And yeah, sometimes there's training for a competition but I am not going to take time out of living my life in order to train for... Life. That is passing while I 'train'. To live a life I like.
That'd be silly.3 -
Look, above post aside and at the end of the my personal attitude is this:
Weight-loss and lifestyle should be as easy as it can/could be. I'm not going to, and don't want to, go hard at it. I want something that can fade into the background of my life, being as effortless as possible. Which enables me not to focus on weight loss or fitness as a Thing I Am Doing that comes with a finish line or will fall apart when I can't focus on it.
And it's worked for me.
I have, interestingly, picked up a few hobbies along the way - running is fun, weights are fun - but I'm not training FOR a thing, and if I stopped both of those tomorrow I could mindlessly adjust my calories back down and move on. Life happens - sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.
And either way I can *without thought or working hard* take a couple of vitamins, and eat at about the calorie level I need to eat, to keep trucking along with the things that need to be done, and focus on things that matter most to me.
THAT to me is success and what I'm looking for.
"GO HARD" has no value to me.3 -
penguinmama87 wrote: »
I wasn't, they were her words to the teacher.
Nowadays there is Christian Yoga such as were I live is Yoga Faith. Yoga nowadays (in my City) is mostly for fitness and is a mix of flow Yoga, Pilates and Barre.
There's also Diamond Dallas Page Yoga https://youtu.be/qX9FSZJu448 which I've taken with a teacher.
Yoga comes from the faith traditions of Hinduism and Buddhism. Those are not my faith traditions, but I can imagine if they were it would be possible I'd feel some kinda way about "Christian yoga," with the apparent belief that the "good parts" can be plucked out, essentially baptized, and all the rest left behind.
I personally perceive a difference between people doing yoga as a fitness practice and people taking yoga and turning it into a whole different religious practice.5 -
I've taken yoga classes in many different states and countries. In general, if one is concerned about a possible conflict with one's religious beliefs, a class at a gym is likely to be completely devoid of spirituality, with a possible exception of an Om at the end.
I was raised Catholic, am now Unitarian Universalist, and find yoga studio yoga a great complement to my spiritual practice.
These descriptions of Christian Yoga actually sound more like what is available at a yoga retreat or yoga retreat center, albeit with different words for "Christ," etc.
https://christianyogaassociation.org/what-is-christian-yoga/
https://susanuneal.com/christian-yoga
Note: the "Should I fear secular yoga?" paragraph mischaracterizes "hatha yoga" and if anyone is interested I will take the time to explain what's wrong with it.2 -
Interesting thread.
I am 64, a registered certified yoga teacher; I've practiced for 40 years and studied with excellent teachers who were among the leaders of the practice in this country. Yoga itself has become a broad term for many variants- some rooted in spiritualism, pranayama, ayurvedics and study of the sutras; others focused on physical conditioning- and some with a smattering of each. It's no longer limited to ashrams- it inhabits gyms, and has cross-pollinated with fitness programs such as Pilates. For me, yoga has benefited my strength, flexibility, and mental well-being. Practice has not moved my organs nor changed my thyroid, but it has helped my blood pressure. Over-zealous practice in my 30s led to a hip replacement in my early 50s, and a recent CAT scan shows some (manageable) spinal deterioration, most likely the result of early incorrect inversions- or it could just be age. Yoga has been pivotal to my well-being in many ways, but it never stopped me from gaining weight. Putting too much of the wrong types of food in my mouth causes me to gain weight. Having the tools to combat those choices helps me lose the weight- and yoga is that, along with long fast walks, vigorous bike rides, some weight training, and- pivotal- healthy diet. I've also found over the years that zealots can make yoga feel unapproachable, and inexperienced teachers can make it dangerous. Yoga isn't for everyone, but it is useful for those who have anxiety, stress or an aversion to weight training and a desire to feel better.5 -
Wow--this thread is mind boggling. I started light yoga 6 yrs ago for my OA, and just love it. I do what I can, and am amazed at what I can. I integrated it into my main exercise program, and do most of my yoga at home with one weekly class. I have my own religion and I don't think yoga competes with it, but completes it. It is the only time I have to meditate a bit and with the breathing it just comes effortlessly. Christians meditate, as do other religions--no one can control your head. Why not take advantage of something that has so many health benefits? Religion also doesn't have to enter into exercise, and for me, yoga is foremost exercise and overall wellbeing.3
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The term cleanse is used by that yoga group but to me I would think more of a fast. The 3 yoga poses stimulate the thyroid.
I just started with My Fitness Pal logger just to see what my macros was at, my weight has been steady at 148lbs for decades no matter what, according to MFP I'll be 142lbs in 5 weeks, I don't know if that's true.
You should be very proud of yourself!!! I hope I get to be your age and I can say all of this! It's working for you and you are taking responsibility for your life! You are taking care of yourself! My dad is 69 and has never taken a medication in his life! My friend who is in his thirties and the size of a barn was telling me as he was shoveling piles of food into his mouth that his doctor needs to "fix" him, get him on some pills to help him lose weight. I just looked at him and laughed and said "Your doctor didn't make you get fat, you did that. You need to figure out how to fix yourself. Doctor's job is only to help you." I hope he had a wake up moment, but I doubt anything clicked. You would have thought that moment would have come when he started taking high blood pressure medication in his thirties. But I throw my hands up in disbelief. You are doing great! If it works for you, you're healthy and happy, then congratulations!!! Don't worry about disagrees from a bunch of random people off the internet who you've never met and probably never will meet or would never even want to meet in real life. You have a clear focus. Keep doing what works for you...5 -
Would standing on my head help?
Possibly; but I don't know if I would choose it as my primary exercise both because of inefficiency and because it reminds me a bit of a "silly" challenge I saw the other day that prescribes 5 minute ice cold showers or something.
Seems a bit like penance as opposed to a scientific experiment! 🤷🏻♂️
lmao I think you're talking about the Wim How method.
Wim Hof primarily teaches breathing methods which is one of the 8 limbs of yoga. Meaning, in the practice of yoga, making shapes with your body is great but there area also 7 there things you're supposed to be doing. One of them is practicing breathing techniques.
Yoga is meant to prepare you to sit in meditation.
Yoga, meditation, and Wim Hof are mostly going to do for you is bring your central nervous system into stasis. It's going to calm you down. Yoga is considered a form of moving mindfulness meditation.
What these things do for people that other types of exercises don't seem nearly as effective at doing is reducing your stress level.
The effects of stress on your immune system and overall health can not be overstated.
And, when I say stress, I don't just mean you've got a deadline coming up. I mean how you feel about your life. I mean how much small setbacks effect you. I mean the way you live minute by minute. These practices change that for the better.
I would not say they are great for weight loss, but that may just be my experience.3 -
Would standing on my head help?
Possibly; but I don't know if I would choose it as my primary exercise both because of inefficiency and because it reminds me a bit of a "silly" challenge I saw the other day that prescribes 5 minute ice cold showers or something.
Seems a bit like penance as opposed to a scientific experiment! 🤷🏻♂️
lmao I think you're talking about the Wim How method.
Wim Hof primarily teaches breathing methods which is one of the 8 limbs of yoga. Meaning, in the practice of yoga, making shapes with your body is great but there area also 7 there things you're supposed to be doing. One of them is practicing breathing techniques.
Yoga is meant to prepare you to sit in meditation.
Yoga, meditation, and Wim Hof are mostly going to do for you is bring your central nervous system into stasis. It's going to calm you down. Yoga is considered a form of moving mindfulness meditation.
What these things do for people that other types of exercises don't seem nearly as effective at doing is reducing your stress level.
The effects of stress on your immune system and overall health can not be overstated.
And, when I say stress, I don't just mean you've got a deadline coming up. I mean how you feel about your life. I mean how much small setbacks effect you. I mean the way you live minute by minute. These practices change that for the better.
I would not say they are great for weight loss, but that may just be my experience.
I agree with this. I find that it helps my arthritis pain, and surprisingly (for me) is very calming. I've been a singer since I was little (choirs) all through high school and then college and beyond. I had good breathing techniques and when I started swimming controlled breathing was very important. Breathing in yoga compliments all this. It's just a nice start to my day.2
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