Coronavirus prep

MikePfirrman wrote: »

Sorry to just pop in from time to time, but I've been incredibly busy.

We were talking about this a while back. How most businesses will go back to work with some sort of hybrid system. This is talking about the long-term effect on commercial real estate. I don't see that as a terrible thing, though I'm in, at least in part, Construction recruiting. I'd love to see all the extra office space turned into more affordable housing in these cities.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/analysis-u-companies-spend-billions-170956481.html

We even talked about this very thing a while ago. About this part, can I just say, double yuch. People are SUCH slobs at work. I would absolutely detest sharing a cubicle with multiple people.

Still, the pandemic has accelerated changes that had been afoot for some time. Vocon, an architecture firm, designed offices before the pandemic that had 20% of employees at so-called hot desks, where multiple workers use a single physical work station at different times. Now, said Vocon, some clients are allocating more than 40% for what can be shared space.

I would not be ok with this either, but I have to think this is more common in something like a call center and less common elsewhere. Most in the offices where I've worked are working during the day. I'm in manufacturing and production workers share a "workstation" over multiple shifts. Usually there are 5S/6S practices in place to help make this work effectively.

Where I am now, we are very tight on office space. I have my own office with a window and a door and some others have cubicles. A few of the cubicle people and a couple offices are not yet hired (new plant), so they are used by multiple people on different days (corporate visitors, contractors). As we get to full staffing, we will need fewer visitors, so those workspaces will become used by a single person. I would dislike using a space for just a shift and having to bring in / remove personal items for the day. But we do have a great cleaning staff and those (currently) shared workspaces are cleaned well between uses.

If this doesn't awake people I don't know what will...

In Maryland, every person who died of Covid-19 in June was unvaccinated. That's not an aberration, experts say

Last month, 130 people died of Covid-19 in Maryland. None of them were vaccinated, according to Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan.
In addition, unvaccinated people made up 95% of new Covid-19 cases in the state and 93% of new Covid-19 hospitalizations, Hogan said at a news conference Wednesday.
"So far it's confirming what we saw with Phase 3 clinical trials: That all of the vaccines authorized for emergency use give extra protection against hospitalizations and deaths, so this has been confirmed now in very practical settings over the past year," Hotez added. "It's a reminder that you have every reason to get vaccinated."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/07/us/maryland-unvaccinated-covid-deaths/index.html

@GaleHawkins

Agree! Silly me...

yet over here with the numbers of delta version rising madly mostly in the young with hospitalisations rising, true not as fast in previous up risings and the dreaded death tole across the UK is now at 35 per day or not dissimilar to numbers back in January.

So our government is going ahead with opening up everything to normal or so the media hype goes from next Monday. Naturally the majority of the cases are in the young, the last people on the "need to vaccine" list. How many of them will go on to develop long covid heaven knows. On the other hand we do have highly knowledgeable medics and scientists saying, opening up, back to normal style is unsafe to say the least.

Tonight we have the final in the latest football thing. Its England v Italy. Only 60,000 supporters. not all vaccinated nor tested from what I can see/read. I believe it should be free of supporters because some "england" supporters at the last, the semi final booed at the singing of the Italy National Anthem. Even more deplorable some thoughtless person shone a green, laser light at the Italian goal keeper when he was defending a goal kick! This is not what I expect of my country people. In the previous round, travel was restricted and I believe testing was required.

When Scotland played in London a couple of weeks ago, thought supporters were told not to travel without stadium seats the streets were full of supporters. Shortly after, 5 days, not more than 10, a spike of covid cases were reported across Scotland!

I feel as if the lock downs we have been through, many think entered into too late, will have been for nothing after all.

I know there are many other countries who are still suffering high case numbers and will do so till they have access to the vaccine in great enough numbers too. I doubt they are going out of their way to find the virus and take it home with them as "we" football supporters in England seem to be doing.

33gail33 wrote: »

Fuzzipeg wrote: »

yet over here with the numbers of delta version rising madly mostly in the young with hospitalisations rising, true not as fast in previous up risings and the dreaded death tole across the UK is now at 35 per day or not dissimilar to numbers back in January.

So our government is going ahead with opening up everything to normal or so the media hype goes from next Monday. Naturally the majority of the cases are in the young, the last people on the "need to vaccine" list. How many of them will go on to develop long covid heaven knows. On the other hand we do have highly knowledgeable medics and scientists saying, opening up, back to normal style is unsafe to say the least.

Tonight we have the final in the latest football thing. Its England v Italy. Only 60,000 supporters. not all vaccinated nor tested from what I can see/read. I believe it should be free of supporters because some "england" supporters at the last, the semi final booed at the singing of the Italy National Anthem. Even more deplorable some thoughtless person shone a green, laser light at the Italian goal keeper when he was defending a goal kick! This is not what I expect of my country people. In the previous round, travel was restricted and I believe testing was required.

When Scotland played in London a couple of weeks ago, thought supporters were told not to travel without stadium seats the streets were full of supporters. Shortly after, 5 days, not more than 10, a spike of covid cases were reported across Scotland!

I feel as if the lock downs we have been through, many think entered into too late, will have been for nothing after all.

I know there are many other countries who are still suffering high case numbers and will do so till they have access to the vaccine in great enough numbers too. I doubt they are going out of their way to find the virus and take it home with them as "we" football supporters in England seem to be doing.

I was thinking about this and at some point you get to the scenario where everyone who is going to get vaccinated has been - and then what do you do? It’s going to happen here shortly.
At that point there is really not much choice but to open up, and let those who refuse the vaccine take their chances. You can’t keep the 80% of people who went out and got their shots with the “promise” of a “normal” life locked down forever. The other option is mandating the vaccine, but I don’t see that happening. Or I guess make different rules for vaccinated and unvaccinated people - maybe if their life difficult enough they will get it.

exactly this! there are 4000+ variants out there - we cannot continue to lockdown for each one or we will literally spend the rest of our lives rotating in and out of lockdowns!

kimny72 wrote: »

33gail33 wrote: »

Fuzzipeg wrote: »

yet over here with the numbers of delta version rising madly mostly in the young with hospitalisations rising, true not as fast in previous up risings and the dreaded death tole across the UK is now at 35 per day or not dissimilar to numbers back in January.

So our government is going ahead with opening up everything to normal or so the media hype goes from next Monday. Naturally the majority of the cases are in the young, the last people on the "need to vaccine" list. How many of them will go on to develop long covid heaven knows. On the other hand we do have highly knowledgeable medics and scientists saying, opening up, back to normal style is unsafe to say the least.

Tonight we have the final in the latest football thing. Its England v Italy. Only 60,000 supporters. not all vaccinated nor tested from what I can see/read. I believe it should be free of supporters because some "england" supporters at the last, the semi final booed at the singing of the Italy National Anthem. Even more deplorable some thoughtless person shone a green, laser light at the Italian goal keeper when he was defending a goal kick! This is not what I expect of my country people. In the previous round, travel was restricted and I believe testing was required.

When Scotland played in London a couple of weeks ago, thought supporters were told not to travel without stadium seats the streets were full of supporters. Shortly after, 5 days, not more than 10, a spike of covid cases were reported across Scotland!

I feel as if the lock downs we have been through, many think entered into too late, will have been for nothing after all.

I know there are many other countries who are still suffering high case numbers and will do so till they have access to the vaccine in great enough numbers too. I doubt they are going out of their way to find the virus and take it home with them as "we" football supporters in England seem to be doing.

I was thinking about this and at some point you get to the scenario where everyone who is going to get vaccinated has been - and then what do you do? It’s going to happen here shortly.
At that point there is really not much choice but to open up, and let those who refuse the vaccine take their chances. You can’t keep the 80% of people who went out and got their shots with the “promise” of a “normal” life locked down forever. The other option is mandating the vaccine, but I don’t see that happening. Or I guess make different rules for vaccinated and unvaccinated people - maybe if their life difficult enough they will get it.

Yeah and unfortunately the unvaccinated are going to allow for more spikes, which will cause more breakthrough cases than if we actually got to herd immunity. They'll keep the virus widely circulating and mutating. And if a mutation changes the spike protein, it "could" bypass the vaccine taught antibodies entirely. But barring mind controlling the unvaccinated, I doubt there's anything we can do. In the US at least, there is no way another lockdown will be tolerated. We have to hope the mutations don't change the spike protein, and that the mutations make the virus more transmissible, but much less dangerous.

I feel for families with younger children, and folks taking immuno suppressant meds, no easy answers for them. I personally am still avoiding crowded situations and masking if I can't avoid them. Sparsely populated indoor spaces I don't wear a mask, but if cases start rising in my local area, I'll prob go back to wearing one just in case, I really don't mind it. There's very little chance I'd get anything more than mild illness, but we don't know the long term effects of infection yet and I'd rather not find out firsthand if I can manage it!

Yes. This is terribly frustrating for us. We are all vaccinated in my household except my youngest who is too young (10). And he has autoimmune skin problems. We all are still masking in case any of us getting a breakthrough case might infect my youngest. I had to let my 18-year-old move in with her vaccinated uncle this summer so she could get a job. Because our county is only 28.8% vaccinated. And that's not b/c we don't have ample supply or easy access to appointments. They just refuse to get the shot. So my household is still basically locked down. TN has been wide-open for quite some time. Mask compliance has never been good since the beginning. The best we had was maybe 40% in a few stores like Kroger. We can't even get our teeth cleaned at the dentist b/c the hygienist isn't vaccinated. I'm more than disgusted, but what can I do? We at least have a camping trip coming up at a park at which it is very easy to stay distanced from other campers.

We haven't yet decided how things will work when the vaccination is approved for under 12, and he is fully vaccinated. My inclination is to stop masking and let the onus be on those who refuse to protect themselves, b/c I am tired to protecting a community that just doesn't care. But then I do know that unvaccinated folk are variant-incubators, and I myself have Sjogren's. All I need is to end up with long-Covid from a variant that defies the vaccine. I homeschool and have 4 kids. I don't need to have even MORE Chronic Fatigue than I already do from my autoimmune disease. So in practice, I'll probably still wear a mask when positivity rate is up here.

It's all just sadly a mess that didn't need to be this hard.

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2021/07/12/how-did-taiwan-go-from-fortress-impregnable-to-asias-covid-hotspot/

Locally I am still being told things like Covid-19 is fake news and death comes due to fear from the fake news and/or lack of Faith.

After 18 months of reading I have observed only one thing that systematically lowers the risk of death due to COVID-19 anywhere in the world.

Getting vaccinated is the ONLY thing that I see that works on the national level.

Is it a total and absolute solution?

NO!

I have brain and a healthcare education. In my case my brain said Get Vaccinated before a varient comes along that I can't survive.

My household is fully vaccinated but still don't hang out on public places in part due to low vaccination rates locally and in surrounding states. MO is really heating up and I see cars with MO plates in drive through lines all of the time. Next week area McDonald's restarts Dine In.

Reference my post above. I realise there can be arguments for opening up, I question the speed at which it was intended. Our population is less than 50% vaccinated. Its the Under 35's who are most exposed to the Delta variant which is outstripping the earlier versions. Delta is more transferable. The under 35's were at the bottom of the vaccination list unless they have health issues. It frightens me, the attitude that the youngsters are at less risk of dying. Even saying fewer are dying from Delta but all things are relative. There is still little we know about covid. We do not know how many of the youngsters are going to have life long residual covid issues, lung damage at the very least. It worries me having been under living for so much of my life till I found the right thyroid support "for me", anything which is a risk to others having to live similarly restricted lives is a risk not worth taking for them and society who when someone is unable or restricted in the hours they can work, holds out a supportive hand in the way of benefits, so to me its better to go carefully rather than let things rip and living with the consequences for years.

The under 5's in England are now in middle of their own winter virus reactions. Ok, its the usual children's chest infections things one sees in the winter but its summer here and many are being hospitalised. The health service is seeing so many children that they expect to have the "winter" peek in August. I was hearing on a medical programme, how Children's departments are training up general nurses to back them up when staffing become critical as happened when covid was rife through the first only the other way about.

We have 50 persons a day dying from Covid now, numbers last seen in January! Thousands of persons testing positive, again numbers not seen since January. So its now the Government were saying the vaccine programme is so good there no need for masks after x date. Fortunately scientists and medics are fighting back. The Mayor of London has declared masks must be worn on pubic transport, this protects their staff. We will have the anomaly that persons traveling on London Transport must wear masks yet those on the same tracks on more distant trains are not so directed as they head into London. For those traveling towards Wales as I type, the expectation is they will not need masks but as soon as they cross the border they are required to wear masks. Hospitals and businesses alike are concerned that the" track and trace network" is alerting people self isolate so the staff are not available in the numbers needed to give the expected services needed.

I spoke to someone yesterday who told me a small north Devon village has its pubs and fish and chip shop closed because some holiday maker had to be admitted to hospital because they traveled there with covid! A community who had kept themselves safe by doing all the advised things suffering these restrictions because someone was selfish enough to travel thoughtlessly.

A couple of weeks ago I was driving through the local large town on a Sunday afternoon, I saw many young men, athletic types, over 50 of them all carrying their skate boards probably from the local park. They were shoulder to shoulder no social distancing, not a face mask to be seen. They were even weaving between the cars as they were crossing the roads. My car windows were closed tight, doors locked, I was fearful for myself though twice vaccinated and those for whom I was responsible for and traveling with me. Irresponsibility then was not condoned but now, it felt like anything goes....................... Now it feels as if Authority now applauds this behavior.

33gail33 wrote: »

I don't know what to make of these resurgence fears. Are these cases and deaths occurring in unvaccinated people? I just heard an ICU doctor in my area (who has been prominent in the news throughout the pandemic) saying that they haven't had a Covid patient admitted to their ICU in the last 33 days. We have high vaccine coverage here (close to 80%) and everyone over 12 is eligible. The push is on now to get the vaccine hesitant done.
I mean if it is people who are refusing the vaccine who are getting sick then I hate to say it but "too bad so sad" it's your own damn fault for not getting it at this point. I don't think the rest of us need to be subject to measures to protect others when there is an easy way for them to protect themselves, and they are refusing it.
At this point the metrics used for implementing broad public health measures also should be shifting from case counts to hospitalization/death counts. If I am vaccinated and get a mild illness ... then the vaccine is doing what it is designed to.

amen!

Fuzzipeg wrote: »

If the above comments are addressing my statements. I realise I am talking about another country, authority and all that.

The latest available daily total (from our Gvt Website) New Cases on 15th July, 48,553 in one day and it rising........ Total cases over the previous week makes 261,823, persons! Its being reported 50% more people are being told to self isolate this week over last. If the test and trace app is registering 4 persons as contacts that's near enough 200,000 a day being told to self isolate in one day. Times by 7 for a week and 1,400,000 out of the work force. Possibly I should have been more explicit. I don't think these numbers are trivial.

These numbers are before many of the many new cases caused by the insanity of so many trying to attend the football final last Sunday when 60000 had tickets and more without tickets, tried to crash into the stadium on the coat tails of unassociated ticket holders, (that stadium is apparently notorious for being easy to gate crash) Then there are people who met up at the local pub, shouting and singing and doing so many things which had been deemed too dangerous. Village choirs still can't join and sing together in the open let along confined spaces!

As yet those people who traveled for the game will not begun to feel unwell it will be a few more days until they have any thought of needing to be tested! That is if they are considerate enough to need to know. How many more people will they infect before the week is out?

Most of the rise in cases this time are under 35, at risk not necessarily by any fault of theirs just the system which did not allow younger folks to be vaccinated. The Delta variant has achieved the ability to be even more infectious, Its less likely to kill but men are more at risk, who knows how many of the young are going to suffer those debilitating long covid reactions, most common is lung damage, effectively removing the up and coming workforce indefinitely, if not permanently from playing their role in the country's and their future plans, its playing with the economy of our country.

So is it being said, Our nation can afford to loose many of these people from our national economic future. We function differently from many countries, in that we contribute to benefits for the, lowly paid, those with long term health issues, and provide the NHS, supposed to be healthcare from the "cradle to the grave" from our National Insurance contribution pot, with a qualifying participation period. Then there is general taxation for education, roads/ and other boring stuff. In years to come this benefits pot could be radically reduced so its unable to be the safety net many have benefited from. This possibility is being encouraged because vaccinated persons should be given the freedom to mix, only how many unvaccinated will go without taking care on the backs of us who have done what I see as my inherent duty to protect others I generally will not come into contact with, I'm keeping a low profile, which I see as doing my bit.

Sorry just to clarify - you mention the NHS so you are in Britain? And people under 35 still aren't allowed to get vaccinated? I thought that you guys were way ahead of the rest on that from the beginning. Where I live we were way behind you in getting the vaccine rolled out, and anyone who doesn't have one by the end of this month (over 12) would have to be actively avoiding it at this point.

Fuzzipeg wrote: »

I referred to being in England in my post before last. Most who have read me since 2013 will not have missed my being in Britain or the UK or England. So Yes, I'm in Britain!! We may have vaccinated many but there are many more who still need vaccinating. Some how the "gates" were left wide open to the Delta virus which came in from India, we did not mutate this on our own, there is one variant found in Kent and other international place. (I think we copped for being responsible for that one). For a while the Delta virus was confined to the north east and west with their economic depravations, depravations, are not the priority of the north there are greater and smaller pockets across the rest of the country too.

Those under 35 can now get vaccinations but the appointments and availability of vaccine to are finite on a weekly basis and it will take time to cover all those who wish, in the hope of achieving good coverage.

Its the mutation and the risk of more mutations internationally I fear. Many countries are deprived, living in close proximity, in poverty, unable to have what many of us take fore granted. Ultimately everyone needs, preferably upwards of 80%, need to be vaccinated across the world............ So I will wear my mask when I very occasionally have to go to the local indoor shopping precinct and I will do my bit when others around me may not. I'm fortunate, I do have a garden. If I feel unwell, I keep well away from others. Those are my standards and will remain so. Its months since I've seen my sons family.

We've all, to qualify, Most in Britain have gone the full mile and more to keep this thing under control which is why I don't want it to get out of hand again. To need to lock down again will be deplorable. In recent days the Governments, "Eat out to Help out" of last August where vat was removed from restaurant and pub bills up to a level has been sited as the cause of the increase in cases last autumn. Covid could take off again this time the Under 6's are having their own viral crisis. Higher attendance at doctors, hospitals and the like because children are meeting and passing these pent up viruses through the youngsters who have not encountered those. There is a strong possibility that when the children's wards are up against it for these common viruses, so will the adult areas be with more covid cases.

I like personal social responsibility. I'd like to see more of it.

Maybe I should have qualified my comment to indicate it was referring to those places where vaccines are readily available, of which I thought Britain was one. I had no idea that your vaccine rollout had excluded those under 35. I do support public health protection measures being in place until everyone who wants a vaccine is able to get one.

Yesterday I was hearing scientists have identified 200+ symptoms associated with long covid. Some persons have conditions similar to ME and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, they are saying covid can get into every system within the body. For now 8 months is the duration of symptoms seem but as time goes on this duration can lengthen. There is so much which we can't know because this is so very new,

https://youtu.be/TP8gsgTFPVc

It seems like the UK is going for herd immunity the old fashion way by removing restrictions. Locally I see more anti vaccine types going the self vaccination route as well and some already are in a world of hurt.

I think most in the UK and USA that want the two shot option have acted so permitting a huge wave over the next 90 days could push us towards herd immunity by end of 2021.

This is a messy way to get to herd immunity but I don't think there's any hope of finding more arms to vaccinate.